Fuel prices up? Cruise fares up?

[Itried4498]

Carnival is now running a 72-hour sale that sees deep discounts for peak travel (summer, Thanksgiving and Holiday season).  We were continually holding an interior room with four people (third and four person travel for $1) for July travel... and now we can get TWO, obstructed view rooms for slightly less money.  

 

Again, fuel charges are de facto price increases.  And status quo, Carnival has to cut prices to stimulate demand.

[BlerkOne]

Fuel surcharges are exactly that. Carnival has no control over fuel prices. Same as port taxes and fees. If someone is a no show, port taxes are refunded as would fuel surcharges. If fuel prices were factored into cruise prices, Carnival couldn't add them to cruises already booked or change them 

[Itried4498]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Fuel surcharges are exactly that. Carnival has no control over fuel prices. Same as port taxes and fees. If someone is a no show, port taxes are refunded as would fuel surcharges. If fuel prices were factored into cruise prices, Carnival couldn't add them to cruises already booked or change them 

 

Huh?  Fuel is an expense.  Carnival has no control over its expenses, including the cost of labor, food, etc.  It can seek alternatives -- it can cut staff, it can trim entertainment offerings, it can source its food from less expensive sources, it can limit food, it can reduce foods with high-costs from its menus, etc.  It could also charge a fee for select entertainment offerings that are currently included in the base price, and require an up charge for high food cost menu offerings.  Or it could include a "labor cost" and/or "food cost" surcharge -- no different than a fuel surcharge.  There are definitely ways to reduce fuel costs, including slashing the distances of its cruises -- select weekend cruises to nowhere (instead of Ensenada, Nassau, etc.), distance travel cut in half and two days in the same port, etc.

 

Nothing requires a fuel surcharge - it's merely a masked price increase.  Again, when oil plunged in the late 2000s, you didn't see prices plunge (across all industries, not the cruise industry itself) - fuel surcharges were simply rolled into base prices, and companies recorded record profits.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Itried4498 said:

 

Huh?  Fuel is an expense.  Carnival has no control over its expenses, including the cost of labor, food, etc.  It can seek alternatives -- it can cut staff, it can trim entertainment offerings, it can source its food from less expensive sources, it can limit food, it can reduce foods with high-costs from its menus, etc.  It could also charge a fee for select entertainment offerings that are currently included in the base price, and require an up charge for high food cost menu offerings.  Or it could include a "labor cost" and/or "food cost" surcharge -- no different than a fuel surcharge.  There are definitely ways to reduce fuel costs, including slashing the distances of its cruises -- select weekend cruises to nowhere (instead of Ensenada, Nassau, etc.), distance travel cut in half and two days in the same port, etc.

 

Nothing requires a fuel surcharge - it's merely a masked price increase.  Again, when oil plunged in the late 2000s, you didn't see prices plunge (across all industries, not the cruise industry itself) - fuel surcharges were simply rolled into base prices, and companies recorded record profits.

Sure. And Carnival could cut most ports and eliminate that expense altogether 

 

There are budgets for everything. You don't just steal from another department. Obviously a projected fuel cost is built into the cruise price. Same as port taxes and fees. When unforseen circumstances jack fuel costs, Carnival can pass those on to consumers. Carnival isn't making a dime more off of higher fuel costs. 

 

In fact, Carnival is making less money because of higher fuel costs. But I didn't  see you mentioning that. If anyone wants to start their own cruise line, they certainly can. Carnival hasn't been around for 50 years because of incompetence.

Edited March 10, 2022 by BlerkOne

[ontheweb]

53 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

In fact, Carnival is making less money because of higher fuel costs. But I didn't  see you mentioning that. If anyone wants to start their own cruise line, they certainly can. Carnival hasn't been around for 50 years because of incompetence.

No, they are not. They hedge and bid for fuel way in advance. They are not paying like we do at the pump.

[firefly333]

I've got a lot booked, so I sure hope it's not added. They will do what they want. They can add it.

 

Prices are rising. I'm seeing higher prices after say next sept. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

No, they are not. They hedge and bid for fuel way in advance. They are not paying like we do at the pump.

Nobody hedges 100%. That would be foolish. It works against you when oil prices fall and besides, suppliers limit what the sell 

[Itried4498]

3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Sure. And Carnival could cut most ports and eliminate that expense altogether 

 

There are budgets for everything. You don't just steal from another department. Obviously a projected fuel cost is built into the cruise price. Same as port taxes and fees. When unforseen circumstances jack fuel costs, Carnival can pass those on to consumers. Carnival isn't making a dime more off of higher fuel costs. 

 

In fact, Carnival is making less money because of higher fuel costs. But I didn't  see you mentioning that. If anyone wants to start their own cruise line, they certainly can. Carnival hasn't been around for 50 years because of incompetence.

Your postings disagree with fundamental business concepts.  Fuel is one of hundreds of expenses Carnival endures.  Carnival is not a gas station -- it can not simply pass the expense onto the consumer.  We pay whatever the price at the pump is because most of us have no alternate choice (e.g. it's non-discretionary) -- we need to travel to/from work and to run mandatory errands.  Cruise travel, OTOH, is ENTIRELY discretionary.  Carnival can only pass fuel prices onto the consumer to the effect that people are willing to pay more for it, otherwise Carnival has to absorb the loss.  And right now, peak summer cruise prices (not just on Carnival) are free falling to historical lows.  Fuel surcharges are de facto price increases, and you cannot raise prices when people aren't willing to meet your current demands.

 

As I said before, Carnival reported just weeks ago it projected a small profit for the year.  The impact of high fuel prices will likely force a loss.  

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Itried4498

[BlerkOne]

I don't just play an oil producer on TV, I AM an oil producer. And know economics. Thanks for the laughs 

[Itried4498]

26 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I don't just play an oil producer on TV, I AM an oil producer. And know economics. Thanks for the laughs 

 

No, you're playing one on the Internet.  Carnival isn't offering historically low cruise fares and heavy promotions out of the kindness of its heart - they're doing so to fill cabins.  It's simply foolhardy to believe they can magically raise fares, when they can't sell enough of them at current pricing as it is. 

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

Your postings disagree with fundamental business concepts.  Fuel is one of hundreds of expenses Carnival endures.  Carnival is not a gas station -- it can not simply pass the expense onto the consumer.  We pay whatever the price at the pump is because most of us have no alternate choice (e.g. it's non-discretionary) -- we need to travel to/from work and to run mandatory errands.  Cruise travel, OTOH, is ENTIRELY discretionary.  Carnival can only pass fuel prices onto the consumer to the effect that people are willing to pay more for it, otherwise Carnival has to absorb the loss.  And right now, peak summer cruise prices (not just on Carnival) are free falling to historical lows.  Fuel surcharges are de facto price increases, and you cannot raise prices when people aren't willing to meet your current demands.

 

As I said before, Carnival reported just weeks ago it projected a small profit for the year.  The impact of high fuel prices will likely force a loss.  

 

I was once a school board member. And when something like for instance fuel went over what it was budgeted for, we of course transferred funds from another piece of the budget. Actually, fuel may be  a bad example as that was bid on and a price was set in advance. So, say electricity was a better example. I am sure businesses make the same sort of adjustments.

 

And as you said, the law of supply and demand is more important for setting prices for the cruise lines.

[rjrice1]

12 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I've got a lot booked, so I sure hope it's not added. They will do what they want. They can add it.

 

Prices are rising. I'm seeing higher prices after say next sept. 

Totally agree!  We booked for Superbowl 2023 on the Magic. Prices has gone up since we booked

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, rjrice1 said:

Totally agree!  We booked for Superbowl 2023 on the Magic. Prices has gone up since we booked

I see so many saying prices are up. Just read someone on the Havana cabana thread who got a deal, but would pay more next time. I'd book jubilee but not with prices starting about 1150 inside. Used to book pre covid and could find deals around $100 a day. I'm booked march and may so looking past those dates and no deals out of my port. 

 

Btw I happened to look at my may 18 grandeur and insides, balconies and suites were all sold out. Someone asked me how to price match. Maybe rcl is holding capacity down at 80% or some such, but looks pretty sold out to me. Cant all be casino freebies. Let's revisit this conversation 60 days from now when  the trend will be more obvious.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, rjrice1 said:

Totally agree!  We booked for Superbowl 2023 on the Magic. Prices has gone up since we booked

It's called supply and demand. Others try to argue Carnival can't do what they are doing.

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It's called supply and demand. Others try to argue Carnival can't do what they are doing.

I like those port hole cabins for solo cruies. The secret must be out. I booked for jan 13 2024 and only 2 were left. That's why I put a hold so fast on the one on deck 2. The other left now is all the way forward deck 1. I wouldnt want that one. .. that's still the only one left unbooked. (I booked the otjer).

 

I have read some got these cruises for casino rates .. but these are for 2024 .. and every port hole but one now booked or not showing. It's the panama cruise ... but still 2024 is far away and booking up. I just want to see out. I'll keep checking for a little more toward mid ship, but glad I didnt wait.

 

I'd still like jubilee but the days dont work, and conflict with the above Panama date or my harmony bookings. And btw I waited about 24 hours to book harmony when released. There are some double wide city park balconies, 2 per deck. Only the top deck was still not booked. No other choices for these special sized balconies...they booked up that fast.

 

I keep reading here how demand is down. Hopper predicts domestic flights will continue to grow next few months. Sounds like pent up demand to me. I dont see any predictions of slowing of travel. Carnival will always have casino deals. They have catered more and more to the casino crowd. Doesnt mean there isnt demand. ..carnival now just give me a deal on jubilee. Lol

 

 

[cruisingguy007]

15 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

Your postings disagree with fundamental business concepts.  Fuel is one of hundreds of expenses Carnival endures.  Carnival is not a gas station -- it can not simply pass the expense onto the consumer.  We pay whatever the price at the pump is because most of us have no alternate choice (e.g. it's non-discretionary) -- we need to travel to/from work and to run mandatory errands.  Cruise travel, OTOH, is ENTIRELY discretionary.  Carnival can only pass fuel prices onto the consumer to the effect that people are willing to pay more for it, otherwise Carnival has to absorb the loss.  And right now, peak summer cruise prices (not just on Carnival) are free falling to historical lows.  Fuel surcharges are de facto price increases, and you cannot raise prices when people aren't willing to meet your current demands.

 

As I said before, Carnival reported just weeks ago it projected a small profit for the year.  The impact of high fuel prices will likely force a loss.  

 

 

As a bacon lover who hasn't purchased bacon in over a year, I can testify to this being absolute truth.  

[cruisingguy007]

11 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I don't just play an oil producer on TV, I AM an oil producer. And know economics. Thanks for the laughs 

 

Reminds me of Young Guns II "I AM NEW MEXICO". Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night? 😁

 

[Itried4498]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I like those port hole cabins for solo cruies. The secret must be out. I booked for jan 13 2024 and only 2 were left. That's why I put a hold so fast on the one on deck 2. The other left now is all the way forward deck 1. I wouldnt want that one. .. that's still the only one left unbooked. (I booked the otjer).

 

I have read some got these cruises for casino rates .. but these are for 2024 .. and every port hole but one now booked or not showing. It's the panama cruise ... but still 2024 is far away and booking up. I just want to see out. I'll keep checking for a little more toward mid ship, but glad I didnt wait.

 

I'd still like jubilee but the days dont work, and conflict with the above Panama date or my harmony bookings. And btw I waited about 24 hours to book harmony when released. There are some double wide city park balconies, 2 per deck. Only the top deck was still not booked. No other choices for these special sized balconies...they booked up that fast.

 

I keep reading here how demand is down. Hopper predicts domestic flights will continue to grow next few months. Sounds like pent up demand to me. I dont see any predictions of slowing of travel. Carnival will always have casino deals. They have catered more and more to the casino crowd. Doesnt mean there isnt demand. ..carnival now just give me a deal on jubilee. Lol

 

 

Cruise prices have plummeted to historical lows.  Meanwhile, the average room rate in Hawaii keeps climbing; in 2021, the average rate was 50% higher than 2019.  And that’s with even more strict Covid restrictions.

 

because one segment of the travel industry is thriving, doesn’t mean all are.

[cruisingguy007]

8 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

Cruise prices have plummeted to historical lows.  Meanwhile, the average room rate in Hawaii keeps climbing; in 2021, the average rate was 50% higher than 2019.  And that’s with even more strict Covid restrictions.

 

because one segment of the travel industry is thriving, doesn’t mean all are.

 

HI is way overpriced, must be folks with no passport. If you don't have a bunch of money to burn, HI is a terrible vacation value vs other options. You are gouged at every turn. 

[BlerkOne]

Per John Heald there are no plans currently to add a fuel surcharge 

[ChrisCJR]

I noticed that the OBC disappeared from one of my deals (casino rate).  The price to cruise was still the same, but it used to include a $100 OBC and it's no longer showing a credit at all.  The offer was good through the end of the month too, so that's worth noting.  It could be a sneaky way of them modifying the cost of a trip, without actually lowering the cost to cruise. 

 

With the offer before, it was a crazy amazing deal, something like $600 for a balcony on an 8 day cruise with $100 per person OBC.  The inside rooms were practically free.

[firefly333]

I tried to find the Panama cruise out of Galveston today, thought I'd missed it. Searched several ways and doesnt show up. Could it be close to selling out? Oct 2022, not showing up to book. 

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Reminds me of Young Guns II "I AM NEW MEXICO". Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night? 😁

 

I stayed in our cabin on Mardi Gras last night.

[Itried4498]

21 minutes ago, ChrisCJR said:

I noticed that the OBC disappeared from one of my deals (casino rate).  The price to cruise was still the same, but it used to include a $100 OBC and it's no longer showing a credit at all.  The offer was good through the end of the month too, so that's worth noting.  It could be a sneaky way of them modifying the cost of a trip, without actually lowering the cost to cruise. 

 

With the offer before, it was a crazy amazing deal, something like $600 for a balcony on an 8 day cruise with $100 per person OBC.  The inside rooms were practically free.

 

The offers come-and-go.  With one of my offers, I can travel on the Panorama in June for sub-$350 (including taxes & fees) inside, about $400 for an obstructed view or $500 for an ocean.  Balcony is much higher.  Both offers are likely below Carnival's cost.

[Itried4498]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I stayed in our cabin on Mardi Gras last night.

 

I was on my luxury yacht in the Mediterranean.