Rotterdam Covid Situation

[thepoint]

Flowery,

 

We sailed about 7 cruises on HAL, always in a Neptune suite.   We stopped using HAL in January 2014.  We started with Celebrity after being introduced to them by a travel agent/friend.  She managed on our first Celebrity sailing to have Celebrity treat us as if we were Elite, so we would get a taste of  the benefits .  That first sailing was not in a suite.  We were very impressed with Celebrity and switched to them immediately.  We have been sailing with them in Sky Suites or Celebrity Suites ever since.    We decided because of the itinerary to try HAL again, so we did the 21 day transatlantic plus Normandy and Norse Legends cruise.  
 

I will say, our room attendants, the wait staff in Orange, and the bartender at the Half Moon Bar were marvelous.  As far as staffing goes in this area each line has employees that work long hard hours and do a  wonderful job.  
 

It is my feeling that we get a lot more for our money with Celebrity versus HAL.  You cannot even begin to compare Orange dining  to Lumina.  Lumina has a completely different menu from the main dining room which in quality and selection is a step above the main dining room.   But, in case you don’t like what is offered in Lumina you can always order off the main dining menu. Or for example, turn an appetizer into a meal.    Here’s an example of quality customer service - in January on Celebrity I told our waiter that I would like the steak, but please just find a small one for me because I cannot eat a large steak.  When my meal came,  he brought me a petite filet mignon from  Tuscan Grille.  I wouldn’t expect that every time, but our waiter was wonderful.   In Orange the menu is the same as the main dining room with one offering that is not included on the main dining room menu.  I don’t feel like that the quality is consistent.   Also, altering what is offered proved to be a little difficult.  However, again I will say the staff is wonderful.   I can’t tell you about the  main dining room on either line.   We did find the Lido on HAL to be very good.  In fact, we ate dinner there several times as we thought it was better than Orange.  
 

The Neptune Lounge does not compare with Michael’s Club, now called the Retreat.  In the Neptune Lounge the concierge keeps track of every drink, even water.  I found that amusing, your in a suite and they keep track of how many bottles of water your drinking.   In Michael’s Club, there is a  large refrigerator and you just take what you like if the bartender is not there.  Whether it is water, beer, or soda.  Also, the Celebrity  drink package includes a higher level of  spirits.  The highest drink package is included with a suite.  We were in a Neptune Suite and had a standard drink package.  We were  limited to 15 drinks a day, which is more than enough.  I am not complaint about the quantity, however at one point I was told I could only have two bottles of water.  I just ignored that and went to a bar and got more.  (We each drink about 6 bottles of water a day).
 

Entertainment on HAL is limited to music venues.  This is wonderful if you are a music fan.  Personally, I would like some variety versus concerts every night.  
 

 On Celebrity we were asked prior to sailing, if we wanted champagne, red or white wine in our room on embarkation day.  On HAL, after entering our room I asked if I could trade the bottle of champagne for a bottle of red wine -answer no.  On Celebrity I was asked what I wanted in mini bar.  I said mostly Perrier  water, two cans of Diet Coke, and two bottles of Corona Light Beer.  This was replenished as needed every day.  On HAL, I asked to have the mini bar  emptied and replaced with the above mentioned items and I was told I could do that, but be sure to put the items  back or I would be charged.  I gathered my water and soda myself for the mini bar every day.  Not a problem for me to do, but just and example of customer service.   

  It was said by several people years ago when we traveled on HAL the only benefit to being in a suite on HAL is that you get a bigger room, plus laundry as much as often as you want, which makes packing for a 20 day cruise easier.  On Celebrity we would have had 4 bags of laundry, which would have been more than enough for us.  (I do think HAL does a better job with the laundry).  
 

In response to your question would we travel HAL again - the answer is no.  I am not trying to bash HAL, I am just stating our feeling in comparing the two lines.   Everyone is different and it is just a matter of personal choice - for me I just feel we get more for our money on Celebrity.  The suite amenities on Celebrity are above those offered by HAL.  For, me it is a matter of value for your money.  

 

[Florida_gal_50]

Isn’t celebrity much higher priced than hal?   As far as club orange goes I don’t think that club orange was supposed to be like lumina.  I’ve cruised a few times on celebrity and the food in the mdr was not great.  No wonder they have to have a special restaurant for suites.

[jeh10641]

On 5/5/2022 at 9:47 AM, Laminator said:

To my knowledge no HAL ship is releasing positive case numbers. The quarantine cabins were located where others have mentioned when we were on the Rotterdam in November. Unless someone testing positive upon disembarkation is on this forum I highly doubt we would find out that info either.

 

I spoke to a cousin of mine at 4 PM PDT, 05/11/22, who is on the Noordam from Ft. Lauderdale to Vancouver. They were just leaving San Diego when the Captain came on the speakers and said masks were now required for the final five days (they dock on 05/15/22). Some passengers and crew had tested positive for Covid 19.

Edited May 12, 2022 by jeh10641
better context

[TheLizardHouse]

On 5/10/2022 at 5:02 AM, albingirl said:

 It's a real stretch to think that you would be privy to some confidential information that the cruise lines have.

I take the point from OP, that cruise lines are very happy to divulge Covid information when it’s good news!

[albingirl]

2 hours ago, TheLizardHouse said:

I take the point from OP, that cruise lines are very happy to divulge Covid information when it’s good news!

It isn't rocket science to see that corporations like to point out good news.  Wouldn't you?

[TheLizardHouse]

So. . . . in that situation it’s not confidential. 🤔😂

[albingirl]

48 minutes ago, TheLizardHouse said:

So. . . . in that situation it’s not confidential. 🤔😂

If you think everything is transparent in the corporate world, you are very naive indeed.

[flowery]

Thanks so much ThePoint for all the great detail! Our Neptune Suite is as pricey or more than a Celebrity sky suite- and also about the price of a Seabourn cabin (?). It's too bad they don't offer an upgraded dining experience to justify the expense.

Your description confirms what Fabric posted about the "subpar, cold food" on the Rotterdam.

Did you try any of the specialty restaurants? We're hoping Tamarind is good -the menu looks very appealing.

I agree HAL has excellent and varied itineraries. Also, glad to hear you were happy with the service.

We are very picky about dining and are only sailing on HAL to be with friends. After months/years of social deprivation, it's our top priority LOL.

We rarely do group excursions so when we're on our own at ports we'll try to find some nice lunch spots.

I sure hope HAL will offer to test everyone who is flying to the US- not just those who booked air with them. It will be a mad scramble if we have to do it on our own. I don't mind paying a fee.

 

Albingirl- I don't understand the hostile comments by you and others e.g.  "rocket science."

 

It's been really interesting reading through the boards of many different cruise lines as I look for Covid trends and protocols.  You can really get a "read" on the differences among cruise lines- some  boards are very polite and diplomatic and others express so much anger and hostility. I'm sure there are some perfectly nice HAL cruisers who want to avoid controversy and are lurking and not posting.

 

Thanks again everyone- please keep posting.

 

 

[thepoint]

Flowery,

 

We didn’t dine in Tamarind, but we did dine in Pinnacle Grille twice and in Canaletto once.  Our  dinners in Pinnacle were good, however on the first night we were rushed through our dinner - in and out within 40 minutes.  You hardly finished your salad and your entree arrived then just as quickly came dessert. There was no crowd in the restaurant and no line waiting for tables.  Everyone was served and out within 30 to 40 minutes.  The next time we went, we told the waiter we wanted to take our time and order a drink and appetizer before we ordered dinner.  He actually got mad at us and said something about the tables. There were even fewer people in the restaurant then the first time, probably less then 20% full.  I think we got an extra 10 minutes!  My husband mentioned the rushed service to the maitre d’ upon leaving. But, the food was good.   We enjoyed Canaletto much more than the Pinnacle Grille.  The food was excellent and the servers were wonderful.  It was a dining experience not a hurry up and get out situation.

 

 We did not do any HAL shore excursions.  It was mandatory that people wear a mask on HAL transportation, whether they did or not I don’t know.  We didn’t want to take excursions because they were in large capacity buses and they did not limit the size of the group.  
 

As far as the testing goes, HAL did test some friends after the transatlantic who were getting off HAL and onto a river boat.  To my knowledge the people in our group on May 8th were to fly back to the US.  I don’t know if there were other groups being tested. It is possible, best to call customer service for a correct answer.  If you take HAL transportation to the airport make sure you get on a bus that gives you plenty of time for your flight.  They booked us on a bus that gave us a tight timeframe and wouldn’t let me switch to an earlier time.  Stressful ending to our cruise.  
 

When and where are you cruising?

[willoL]

@flowery, like you, I do very much wish that ships were required by the CDC to post the number of COVID positive cases diagnosed on board alongside the current occupancy level (number of pax.)

 

I am not "scared" to travel, nor am I unclear about my personal risk profile and whether or not my status makes a cruise this August likely to kill me. (It does not!) Instead, I would use that historical data to improve my own decision making. For example, will we eat indoors at restaurants, only dine outdoors with others, or take all meals via room service? (Though I hope to relax and enjoy the entire ship, any of these will be a fun break from cooking for my family. Only a surge approaching Omicron's scale or a much deadlier variant would cause me to cancel.)

 

Past trends are not guarantees, but they do help one forecast what may be more *likely* to happen in the future. I would absolutely select a cruise line upon which hard data showed radically lower rates of infection ACROSS MANY VOYAGES OVER TIME. I would understand that the data could reflect passengers self-selecting similar behaviors, less testing by one line over another, equipment like air filters, or something else I never considered... but *I* would get to decide based upon facts where I felt most comfortable.

 

Perhaps it is worth noting that I'm an engineer by training, and I am very comfortable with data. I collect it and use it all the time in my daily life, like tracking how long different routes to school take and observing whether a different route might be more efficient.

 

I see why cruise lines don't want to share their COVID case numbers, but I wish reporting these simple facts was mandatory.

 

--willoL

[Mosaic]

6 hours ago, albingirl said:

If you think everything is transparent in the corporate world, you are very naive indeed.

Thanks for calling people naive.

[albingirl]

2 hours ago, Mosaic said:

Thanks for calling people naive.

Since I was challenged by him or her on statements I made, sure.  They want to hear the numbers of covid cases, which could be confidential, and I remarked that corporations do this sort of thing all the time and it's naive to expect otherwise.  Hardly an insult.  Unless you tell people what they want to hear on this board, including the OP, they will be offended and call you hostile.  Yep, I get it. 

[KroozNut]

2 hours ago, albingirl said:

 Yep, I get it. 

 

Really happy to hear that... I was beginning to wonder.

[Florida_gal_50]

2 hours ago, albingirl said:

Since I was challenged by him or her on statements I made, sure.  They want to hear the numbers of covid cases, which could be confidential, and I remarked that corporations do this sort of thing all the time and it's naive to expect otherwise.  Hardly an insult.  Unless you tell people what they want to hear on this board, including the OP, they will be offended and call you hostile.  Yep, I get it. 

Got that right!  Clearly some folks never worked for a corporation.  NO corporation is transparent.  Every person is not entitled to know everything they wish.  

[BermudaBound2014]

Add me to the group that would like to know the percentage. The rational is quite simple.  The higher the percentage, the more likely I am to take additional precautions. 

 

To suggest cruise lines (all of them) are failing to announce the percentage who have tested positive due to confidentiality is ridiculous.

 

But it does make perfect sense why cruise lines will not release the data. Cruising has taken a beating from Johnny Public in terms of  perception as a 'petri dish' and more bad press is, at this point, yet another nail in the coffin.

 

Since the CDC uses data thresholds in their color coding system, it is not out of line to release this information to passengers.  Note: the threshold data is very interesting because the CDC has built in TONS of wiggle room before having to declare a ship 'red'. Currently all HAL ships are Orange. Currently the vast majority of ships sailing with passengers are Orange (see link). Yet not one has reached the threshold for red. 

 

 

 

It is impossible to keep covid off cruise ships. I do agree that anyone who feels that cruise lines are being completely transparent in reporting all the data is naïve. One just needs to read the forums to realize that cruise lines are manipulating the data. This is Strictly business.

 

Anyone with a comorbidity, or anyone highly adverse to a possible quarantine, may want to consider a  vacation with lower population density.  

 

 

Cruise ship dashboard link:

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/cruise-ship-color-status.html#faq-1

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[TheLizardHouse]

5 hours ago, albingirl said:

Since I was challenged by him or her on statements I made, sure.  They want to hear the numbers of covid cases, which could be confidential, and I remarked that corporations do this sort of thing all the time and it's naive to expect otherwise.  Hardly an insult.  Unless you tell people what they want to hear on this board, including the OP, they will be offended and call you hostile.  Yep, I get it. 

 

[TheLizardHouse]

28 minutes ago, TheLizardHouse said:

 

This is my take, on the OP, briefly, that it is hard to make an informed decision about cruising, when not all of the information is available. I would not have posted this myself on a cruise forum, and some of the answers here are examples of why not. Corporate privacy! hardly (and conveniently), people are just wanting to make the best choice for their own health and well-being. Thankyou BermudaBound2 for injecting some common sense in to a discussion that has got emotive.

[albingirl]

11 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

Really happy to hear that... I was beginning to wonder.

Another charming post.

[flowery]

ThePoint- that's very strange about the rushed service at the Pinnacle Grill- the exact opposite of what one normally experiences at a specialty restaurant. It sounds like they were trying to squeeze in as many sittings as possible. I haven't made any specialty reservations yet because I wasn't sure about the cancellation policy. Is it easy to make restaurant reservations onboard for Neptune suites?

 

Celeb Aqua Blu- service was way too slow and dragged out and also, we weren't keen on the food.

Celeb Luminae pacing and dishes all perfect- our ideal.

However, as long as there's a possibility of being moved to an Ocean View cabin we wouldn't sail with Celebrity again.

 

Oceania is the only cruise line that I'm aware of that's allowing passengers to remain in their original staterooms. Some passengers on Regent aren't being moved but it's not consistent. Is Viking still dumping anyone positive at the nearest port to quarantine in a budget hotel? I haven't checked their board for a few weeks.

Italy- sounds way too strict at the moment. If you test positive at the airport they give you a few mins to decide if you want to go to a special quarantine hotel, get an AirBnB or stay with a relative. I would do a land based trip to Italy but cruising sounds kind of risky.

[flowery]

willoL- thank you so much for explaining why you look at statistics and trends- you articulated it perfectly in a way I couldn't.

BermudaBound and Lizard House- thanks for your posts. Excellent info BermudaBound!

 

Celebrity Apex is now requiring masks.

I hope everyone on the current 14 day Rotterdam sailing is doing OK. 

 

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

As a follow up comment to the OP, DH and I and friends are cruising the Rotterdam July 10th, which is 8 weeks from tomorrow. If you take a look at what has happened in the last 12 weeks for cruising you will have seen a lot of changes, first everyone was wearing masks, then they dropped the masks, now going back to masks. The numbers of positive cases go up and down like the currents of the ocean. What is happening right this minute more than likely will not be happening 4 weeks from now, let alone 8 weeks from now. I do not have a crystal ball and by all the constant changes neither do the cruises lines.

I truly do understand peoples concerns and worries. If you are one that it bothers you too much to not know and want to know exacts I suggest canceling and not traveling at this time. Stress can cause illness and can make you sick for no reason. I am not trying to be nasty here but right now travel is not for the type that worry. One must be ready to just go with the flow and that flow could change numerous times before one steps over the gangway. 

Many of the reasons we are not getting Answers and Transparency is because the cruise lines honestly do not know. What they might tell you today will not be the same tomorrow.

If they give you numbers of covid on board today those number will not be the same tomorrow let lone in July. I have had 4 different answers now for testing in Amsterdam all within 15 days. I honestly am not going to be concerned as to what I need to do till about 10 days before we leave.

My only concern is that HAL keeps my flights in tact and does not drop the ball there. 

[BEAV]

I completely agree with everything @LAFFNVEGAS has stated. I’m just back from a two-week Transatlantic sailing that, thankfully, didn’t come with any Covid-type mishaps. But I went prepared with the mindset anything could happen such as illness, quarantine, delay getting back to the US, etc. 

 

I feel the cruise lines are doing everything they possibly can to survive during this restart. It’s irrational to think they’re intentionally trying to screw with people as the rules and protocols of the countries they sail to are ever-changing. Although Covid is now 2+ years, it’s still the first day of school in that they’re navigating through all the different variants as they arise.

 

 Consistency is still aways off....

[flowery]

Beav and Laffnvegas- thanks for your comments. I agree it's good to be flexible and open.

My thinking on the situation evolves and shifts on an almost daily basis.

Just 6 weeks ago we were still being careful with mask wearing. Now we are taking no precautions even in large crowds. I'm thinking we might be immune, having had Covid less than 5 mos ago.

 

As long as ports and countries don't deny the Rotterdam entry or require group excursions I think we'll be OK.

 

I do all my own travel planning- hotels, air etc for maximum flexibility. We are paying a lot for Platinum insurance so we have the luxury of not embarking at the very last minute if we shift again.

 

Still looking forward to hearing from cruisers currently on the Rotterdam or disembarking next week.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

On 5/6/2022 at 2:03 PM, ShipWalker said:

I like to use my toothpaste analogy. Toothpaste tubes do not state that using their brand of toothpaste prevents cavities. It  says it “helps” prevent cavities.

 

Likewise, doctors do not say wearing a mask prevents the spread of Covid. They say it helps prevent the spread of it.

DW & I are willing to do our small part even if it helps only a little.

We agree with you.

[flowery]

From the Celebrity board:

The Netherlands quarantine rules: remain in isolation for 10 or 14 days?

Yet someone says their relatives are roaming about Amsterdam visiting museums and eating at restaurants etc.

The official Dutch rules sound strict-similar to Italy's but maybe aren't enforced?

 

If you prefer not to pay for a land based quarantine accommodation, ask to be tested on the ship on the next to the last day and they will be forced to keep you until you test negative? It sounds like Viking didn't get this memo! No wonder cruise lines want to avoid testing people on the ship...

 

I can't imagine wanting to remain onboard in a quarantine cabin... Unless I really couldn't afford a hotel and meals on my own...

 

Celebrity Apex- positivity rates were at 20% or higher when the mask mandate came out but it wasn't enforced and then a few days later the sailing ended.

 

If you take off your mask to eat and drink on cruise ship you are at risk. It's as simple as that. The virus can be transmitted in seconds- not minutes. I continue to be amazed at the number of people speculating on when and where they picked up the virus..

 

We are planning on sailing- feeling confident that we are immune or resistant to a heavy viral load at the moment -but of course in a few months that could all change.