Foreign ATM Withdrawals

[Fouremco]

22 hours ago, iancal said:

We establish a credit balance so there are no interest charges. 

 

13 hours ago, iancal said:

Have not done a HT cash advance in a similar way but plan to on our winter trip:

 

You might want to check with HT to see if they will allow this. A couple of years ago, Rogers Bank wouldn't allow us to establish a positive credit balance when we knew that a couple of simultaneous large ticket items were going to max out our card. Their policy, at least at that time, was that you were limited to spending your maximum in any given billing period, no matter how much you deposited to the card account. I don't think that is a common policy with most financial institutions, but it never hurts to check.

[gnome12]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

 

 

You might want to check with HT to see if they will allow this. A couple of years ago, Rogers Bank wouldn't allow us to establish a positive credit balance when we knew that a couple of simultaneous large ticket items were going to max out our card. Their policy, at least at that time, was that you were limited to spending your maximum in any given billing period, no matter how much you deposited to the card account. I don't think that is a common policy with most financial institutions, but it never hurts to check.

I don't think that it is quite the same thing. It is just creating a credit balance so the cash withdrawal is not considered a cash advance. It has nothing (necessarily) to do with spending more than a maximum amount in a billing period.

 

The question might be, if you have a credit balance, whether a cash withdrawal is actually considered a cash advance. Intuitively, it isn't because you have "prepaid" it, but banks aren't known for logic.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

I don't think that it is quite the same thing. It is just creating a credit balance so the cash withdrawal is not considered a cash advance. It has nothing (necessarily) to do with spending more than a maximum amount in a billing period.

 

The question might be, if you have a credit balance, whether a cash withdrawal is actually considered a cash advance. Intuitively, it isn't because you have "prepaid" it, but banks aren't known for logic.

You might be right, but as it was explained to me at the time by a Rogers Bank call centre employee, it didn't matter whether it was a credit card purchase or an ATM withdrawal, the only available funds were only those established by your monthly max and you couldn't go over, even if you had a credit balance at the time of the transaction. I didn't make sense to me then, any more than it makes sense to you now, but when I questioned it, all I got was the "that's our policy" explanation.

[iancal]

With our previous Marriott Amex card a cash advance was considered a cash advance and there was a service charge for it.  But considerably less that we would have paid using our bank card for an ATM withdrawal.  The credit balance eliminated any interest charge associated with the cash advance.  We did this on every winter snowbird trip for a number of years.

 

Prior to leaving for Portugal in May we established a $3K credit on our HT card.  Not because of cash advances but rather I was aware that some charges would be occurring.   No issue but the debits quickly overtook the credit~

 

Contrast that with an overpayment on an Aspire MC card.  They sent us a $90. check to refund the credit even though this is our primary card.  Not sure if this is routine or it could have been some quarter or year end practice of Capital One.

 

Next time we are overseas we plan to try out the HT cash withdrawal scenerio and see what happens.

Edited July 5, 2022 by iancal

[iancal]

A few years ago, while travelling, we did a test.   ATM withdrawal on our CIBC bank card.   Credit card purchase on our CIBC credit card (two days earlier but 'processed on the same day as the ATM withdrawal), and a cash advance on our then  Marriott Amex card.

 

As I recall the FX on the ATM withdrawal on our CIBC card was by far the most expensive.   The FX appeared to be 4 percent.  Plus there was a $5. ATM charge.   It was by far the most expensive way to get money.

 

 CIBC credit card was second.   2.5 percent or so.   Cash advance on the Marriott Amex card worked out to be 1.5 percent based on the service fee.  There was no uplifted FX percentage.

 

This did not necessarily hold true in countries like Viet Nam or Portugal where there appeared to be a rather low limit on ATM withdrawals.

[gnome12]

I looked at the cardholder agreement on the Home Trust Visa. They keep everything in buckets (each category of transactions), so even if you are in a credit balance, it looks to me as if you will be paying interest on the withdrawal, because it is in a bucket by itself. I don't know how that works with the priority of payments, however. Whatever happens, you are paying a minimum of $4.50 in the US and $5.50 globally.

 

Here is the section on ATM fees from the disclosure statement:

ATM Charge: 1% of amount withdrawn (Minimum fee of $2.50 and Maximum fee
of $10.00) for a Cash Advance from an ATM displaying the Visa or Plus logo located
in Canada; 1.50% (Minimum fee of $4.50 and Maximum fee of $15.00) if the
ATM is located in United States; 1.50% (Minimum fee of $5.50 and Maximum fee
of $15.00) if the ATM is located outside Canada and the United States. This is in
addition to any other charges that may be levied by the owner/operator of the ATM.

 

This is from the cardholder agreement:

12. Calculation of interest charges: You calculate interest charges on my Debt
monthly using the Average Daily Balance method. The calculation is done as follows:
at the end of each billing period, you calculate interest charges separately for
each category of transactions that makes up my balance (i.e., Purchases and Cash
Advances) (each, a “category”) as each category is subject to interest charges at a
different percentage rate of interest charges (annual interest rate and other charges),
as set out in the Disclosure Statement. For each category, you determine (i) the
“Average Daily Balance” of all transactions and charges in that category for the period
covered by the Account Statement and (ii) the “daily interest rate” for that category
for the period covered by the Account Statement. You then multiply the Average Daily
Balance for each category by the daily interest rate for that category, and then by the
number of days in the period covered by the Account Statement, and you then add
this amount to my balance for each category. You determine the “Average Daily
Balance” for a particular category by adding together the balances for that category
for each day during the period covered by the Account Statement and then dividing
that sum by the number of days in the period covered by the Account Statement. You
determine the “daily interest rate” for a particular category by dividing the applicable
interest rate for the category by 365 (in a regular year) or 366 (in a leap year).

 

13. Application of Payments: Each payment of the Debt is first applied towards
my Minimum Payment. If I pay more than the Minimum Payment, you will apply the
amount over the Minimum Payment (i.e., the excess payment) to the remainder of my
New Balance. If the different amounts that make up my New Balance are subject to
different interest rates, you will allocate the excess payment first to the amount with
the highest interest rate and you will then allocate any remaining portion of the excess
payment to the other amounts that make up the New Balance for the billing period
in descending order, based on the applicable interest rates. You reserve the right,
subject to applicable law, to change the order in which you apply payments, without
notice to me.

[LHT28]

I have only done cash advance twice in my whole life

Once  we were on a road trip & desperate  did not know better about the daily interest fee ...

Long before the internet   so no way to transfer funds  at that time ..lesson learned

 

Second time  a few years ago  we were in Bermuda  & needed some USD  for upcoming ports

Went to the bank in Hamilton  got the cash advance   went back on the ship  & made a payment online to cover the withdrawal

No fee  was charged  this was with TD bank  ...we do have a USD saving account  & USD VISA  with them so an easy transfer

 

We were in Amsterdam a couple of years ago ..I did have Euro with me but  we needed a new suitcase  as the airline decided  it was time

Found one  but the place did not  take CC  so got cash from the ATM  on my Tangerine chequing account  ..the fee was nominal I think $2

then I just transfer more $$  to the account  just in case

I usually only keep $500 in the account   & use it for travel

 

We are not usually away for more than 3 wks & rarely  buy big ticket items when travelling so not worried about the fees 

We take 2 different CC  incase  one gets compromised

 Just my system & it works for me

YMMV

 

 

[Brian V]

7 hours ago, LHT28 said:

We take 2 different CC  incase  one gets compromised

Wise words...I had a single CC for years ("Why have more, you just spend more!") but almost got stranded a few years ago when my (at the time) only card got compromised and I was left with no way to pay for my hotel, or even the gas to drive home. Thankfully, had very understanding in-laws 🙂

 

Have a second card now, gets used for almost nothing but it is there...just in case...

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, Brian V said:

Have a second card now, gets used for almost nothing but it is there...just in case...

just make sure you use  it once or twice a year to keep it valid  😉

 

[iancal]

12 hours ago, LHT28 said:

just make sure you use  it once or twice a year to keep it valid  😉

 

Some cards will charge you a fee if there are no charges during the year.  I believe that HT does this.

 

We travel with three cards and we ensure that we have higher credit limits.  We keep them separate.  DW carries different cards than I do.

 

More than once we have had high holds on our cards when renting cars in Europe.

[ladysail2]

I bought a whole bunch of GBP and Euros in anticipation to my visit and cruise in November. Now I find out that merchants prefer credit cards.  I prefer cash outside Canada just in case something goes wrong with the card.  I have the BMO Prepaid Travel Card now called the BMO Prepaid Mastercard.  How would I load foreign currency on it? I often transfer Canadian currency from my chequing account for super expensive  purchases that go beyond the limit of my usual credit cards, without a problem. But I doubt that I can go to an ATM in London, UK and transfer anything to the card from my chequing account.  Or do I exchange all my foreign currency back to Canadian dollars and load it on to the Travel Card from my chequing account?   I’ll have to look to see if they charge all the foreign fees as if it’s a credit card.
 

 They actually do call it a credit card with zero credit limit…if you can believe that!  I think it’s so they can charge cash advance fees if you transfer (your own) money off the card back into your own chequing account…and yes they do that!  They didn’t while it was called a travel card. 

 

I do have the HT Visa card, so that’s a back-up.   😕

[ladysail2]

I sort of answered my own question….the BMO prepaid mastercard sucks. They charge 2.5% FTF on top of the daily currency exchange rate prescribed by mastercard international. They charge cash advance fees of $5.00 if you try to get your own cash from the card at an ATM. There’s an annual fee just to have the privilege of having a zero credit limit credit card. 
 

This is almost too funny. It’s a great card for paying anything that exceeds your actual credit card limit. I’ve used mine to pay for goods over $10,000…without a problem.  
 

Oh well…I guess I’ll make use of my HT card.  I will take cash too.

[Dave994]

Ok. I need some help. Going on NCL bliss next November from LA, and I have started a CIBC US account to save some spending money. Does anyone know if I can just use my debit card in the US and on the ship and withdraw my US dollars without any extra fees beyond ATM fees? 
 

we will use a CC for the account on the ship, this will just be cash for the ports and casino. 

[Dave994]

Anyone??

[gubby]

I suppose I can ask at the bank tomorrow, but thought about this while reading this thread. We have a very pricey cruise booked and it is over our CC limit. Our thought was to pay some every month and we did start to do that, and made 6 payments. However, I got nervous about stocks dropping and wondered about bankruptcy, so haven't paid any extra in the last 2 months. How do you make a payment that is almost twice the CC limit. Is it possible to deposit the amount in advance or make a couple of early payments to the CC? How early would you arrange this? Is it possible to use 3 or 4 cards to pay for one cruise? We do not have a TA. I appreciate any help. Thanks. By the way, if my nervousness grows, can I have the money transferred back to my bank account if we decide to cancel the cruise and will the bank charge for this? We will buy the insurance before penalties kick in. HAL is the cruise line

[LHT28]

8 minutes ago, gubby said:

I suppose I can ask at the bank tomorrow, but thought about this while reading this thread. We have a very pricey cruise booked and it is over our CC limit. Our thought was to pay some every month and we did start to do that, and made 6 payments. However, I got nervous about stocks dropping and wondered about bankruptcy, so haven't paid any extra in the last 2 months. How do you make a payment that is almost twice the CC limit. Is it possible to deposit the amount in advance or make a couple of early payments to the CC? How early would you arrange this? Is it possible to use 3 or 4 cards to pay for one cruise? We do not have a TA. I appreciate any help. Thanks. By the way, if my nervousness grows, can I have the money transferred back to my bank account if we decide to cancel the cruise and will the bank charge for this? We will buy the insurance before penalties kick in. HAL is the cruise line

Can you raise your credit limit on the CC?

I usually pay a chuck  to my CC  a week before final payment

 

I would check ins   if you have any pre existing conditions you you may not be covered  if you are buying trip cancellation ins  if you wait until Final payment of the cruise to purchase

 

 

[Fouremco]

40 minutes ago, gubby said:

I suppose I can ask at the bank tomorrow, but thought about this while reading this thread. We have a very pricey cruise booked and it is over our CC limit. Our thought was to pay some every month and we did start to do that, and made 6 payments. However, I got nervous about stocks dropping and wondered about bankruptcy, so haven't paid any extra in the last 2 months. How do you make a payment that is almost twice the CC limit. Is it possible to deposit the amount in advance or make a couple of early payments to the CC? How early would you arrange this? Is it possible to use 3 or 4 cards to pay for one cruise? We do not have a TA. I appreciate any help. Thanks. By the way, if my nervousness grows, can I have the money transferred back to my bank account if we decide to cancel the cruise and will the bank charge for this? We will buy the insurance before penalties kick in. HAL is the cruise line

Sent in error.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Fouremco

[Fouremco]

40 minutes ago, gubby said:

I suppose I can ask at the bank tomorrow, but thought about this while reading this thread. We have a very pricey cruise booked and it is over our CC limit. Our thought was to pay some every month and we did start to do that, and made 6 payments. However, I got nervous about stocks dropping and wondered about bankruptcy, so haven't paid any extra in the last 2 months. How do you make a payment that is almost twice the CC limit. Is it possible to deposit the amount in advance or make a couple of early payments to the CC? How early would you arrange this? Is it possible to use 3 or 4 cards to pay for one cruise? We do not have a TA. I appreciate any help. Thanks. By the way, if my nervousness grows, can I have the money transferred back to my bank account if we decide to cancel the cruise and will the bank charge for this? We will buy the insurance before penalties kick in. HAL is the cruise line

As I said in an earlier post, Rogers Bank wouldn't let me make an advance deposit when I knew I had a couple of high cost transactions coming in the same billing period that would max out the card. However, Rogers isn't a normal "bank", and I have no other account with them, just the World Elite MasterCard. If your credit card is from your regular bank, you might be able arrange for a short term increase in your CC ceiling for your final payment, especially if you maintain an account with sufficient funds to cover this higher max. Speak to your bank manager to discuss your options, as I'm sure that there must be a number of ways of resolving your problem.

 

You might want to double check with HAL, but I believe that you can still make payments on multiple cards.

 

On the question of cancelling your cruise, HAL will reimburse you any funds due in the same manner that they were paid. So if you paid by credit card(s), you will be refunded on the same credit card(s). It will not go directly to your bank account, but once it has been refunded you can make the necessary arrangements to transfer the funds from your credit card account(s) to whichever of your personal accounts you choose.

[gubby]

ThAnks for the replies. I will check with the bank about CC limit as payment not due for a while yet. But I don't think I will pay any more until I feel more settled about the cruise lines financial health. Someone commented on pre-existing conditions. That is not a worry for us as we have great insurance there. I am only concerned about my prepayment being kept after penalties happen, and I can buy that according to HAL up to final payment. At least that is what I read into the article. Cancel for any reason. Who should I check with about that? The answers here are so helpful, and I am appreciative of everyone's ideas.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, gubby said:

 At least that is what I read into the article. Cancel for any reason. Who should I check with about that? The answers here are so helpful, and I am appreciative of everyone's ideas.

Some CFAR  only cover up to 75%   so check the fine print of the policy

[gubby]

2 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Some CFAR  only cover up to 75%   so check the fine print of the policy

The policy has 2 different types. The least expensive one covers 80% and the other covers 90%, but up to 2 hours before sailing. We will need to seriously read the policies as they are quite pricey, but better than losing 100% of the cost,  I think.

[Dancer Bob]

Make sure your second card is with a different issuer. I had two TD cards and one BMO. I lost one of the TD cards. The-remarkably inefficient- TD card centre cancelled both cards even though I was very clear on the card number which was actually lost.

[iancal]

16 hours ago, Dancer Bob said:

Make sure your second card is with a different issuer. I had two TD cards and one BMO. I lost one of the TD cards. The-remarkably inefficient- TD card centre cancelled both cards even though I was very clear on the card number which was actually lost.

Very good advice.

 

On more than one occasion we have had one of our cards denied when trying to buy an on line airline ticket in Australia.  Same issue in SE Asia a few times.  Same card each time, the now defunct Marriott Chase Bank Canada no fee Visa FX card.

 

We tried that credit card again during our trip for subsequent in person and on line purchases.  It worked.  

 

When we returned home we called the credit card company.  They claimed  to have had no record of the attempted sale being refused. 

[Magicat]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:14 PM, Dave994 said:

Ok. I need some help. Going on NCL bliss next November from LA, and I have started a CIBC US account to save some spending money. Does anyone know if I can just use my debit card in the US and on the ship and withdraw my US dollars without any extra fees beyond ATM fees? 
 

we will use a CC for the account on the ship, this will just be cash for the ports and casino. 

Sorry Dave, I have not used my Canadian debt card to access my US account to withdraw funds from the ship's ATM.  We usually take money out at the casino and it goes on to our seapass account without paying any fees.  When when we get home we pay off our credit card.  Perhaps you can share with us if you can access your US account via the ships ATM when you return.

[LHT28]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:14 PM, Dave994 said:

Ok. I need some help. Going on NCL bliss next November from LA, and I have started a CIBC US account to save some spending money. Does anyone know if I can just use my debit card in the US and on the ship and withdraw my US dollars without any extra fees beyond ATM fees? 
 

we will use a CC for the account on the ship, this will just be cash for the ports and casino. 

We have a TD USD account  as well as their USD VISA card

 we were in the U.S land trip

we could not use the debit card to get cash

I used the VISA card then just went online & paid the CC

We had USD with us   so we were not stuck  but wanted to see if the debit card would work like our CAD cards

 

Now this was a few years ago but I think it is still the same

I would ask at the bank to confirm

JMO