Coach from Las Vegas to Los Angeles port and drinks and Gratuity charges

[KeepCalmBearOn]

51 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

Scott, I usually drove between LA and Las Vegas in one of my cars, but over the course of five years, I took a bus about 50 to 60 times (one round trip every other month or so).  I had posted about the "Chinatown buses" when I first began to use them.  I boarded the bus in Chinatown in LA (in front of Bank of America) and it dropped me off on the Strip in Las Vegas -- at Planet Hollywood or Bally's.  (Or vice versa.)

 

You are far braver than me to take those Chinese tour buses.

 

That Metro Line was the old Purple Line. I don't know its new name.

[technoman]

9 hours ago, sloopsailor said:

Well said! It never fails to amaze me that some people decide to cheat the staff out of their usual earnings to save a few bucks that they certainly can afford if the can afford to cruise in the first place. That a person would willingly remove a part of the income of people who are much less affluent than the passenger is, and need that money much more than the passenger does, is extremely disappointing. Thank you for saying it so well. 

A few bucks, your joking right 29 bucks per day per cabin is ridiculous. P&O dont charge gratuities and they are part of the same group and even cruises starting in the UK dont charge those kind of prices surely the 18% extra they charge on drinks should be enough to supplement the crew pay. We have worked all our lives in low paying jobs and therefore have to make the most of our limited pension pots so we are always looking for the best package deals too see parts of the world we have not seen before and are not trying to remove supplementary income of the crew members. 

[technoman]

Thanks to all the posters for the useful information you have provided me with. 

[Ombud]

19 hours ago, technoman said:

Our "Princess Plus" fare includes our Princess Plus Beverage Package, Wi-Fi and Crew Appreciation!

Wow those crew appreciation charges apx £353  for the trip and then 18% on top even if you take out the Princess plus package seem eye watering expensive. It says on the princess website you can adjust the  crew appreciation amount ? is this done at the end of the trip as realistically i would not want to pay more than £150 per cabin.  Maybe i should consider buying some carnival shares (100 shares i think)  to get some on board credit but this only works when you book direct and not through a travel agent. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions

Well in that you're booking the Plus fare reducing the gratuities has absolutely no effect on your fare. So why bother to stand in line when there's no benefit? It's not like you're going to get that (£353-150) £203. 

 

Looking at it another way;

40 Princess Plus

-10 wifi

-5 latte*

-24* (for just 2 glasses cheapest wine)

1 gratuity

 

*But you can have up to 15 drinks

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Ombud

[skynight]

2 hours ago, technoman said:

A few bucks, your joking right 29 bucks per day per cabin is ridiculous. P&O dont charge gratuities and they are part of the same group and even cruises starting in the UK dont charge those kind of prices surely the 18% extra they charge on drinks should be enough to supplement the crew pay. We have worked all our lives in low paying jobs and therefore have to make the most of our limited pension pots so we are always looking for the best package deals too see parts of the world we have not seen before and are not trying to remove supplementary income of the crew members. 

Comments

P&O and other lines do include crew incentives in their fares. They just don't separate it out for you to see. They have to pay their crew. 

Drink prices on P&O include any service charges for the bar staff. It's not a separate add on, but amounts to the same thing.

Princess' crew incentive goes into a fleet wide pool and is paid out to housekeeping and dining room staff and others that you never see such as the staff that washes your sheets and towels, the staff that cleans the public areas. 

Beverage service charge goes to bar and beverage staff which is a separate group from the housekeeping/DR staff.

The plus fare includes the crew incentive and beverage service charge and is like you are used to with P&O, included.

There are cultural reasons for the difference between UK and US methods of defining total charges. There are also accounting and tax reasons for both the company and crew to separate these charges out and maintain separate records.

Bottom line is that you purchased an inclusive package and you are not able to separate out the parts.

For information. When you are in the U.S. State and local taxes are usually not included in the prices you see. Nevada tax is 6.85%. Los Angeles tax is 9.5%. These amounts will be added to the prices shown. Waiters and bar staff in the U.S. work mainly for tips. Base salaries are low. Standard tip amount for restaurant service is between 15 to 20% of the amount. It is the way it is. 

 

[cruzsnooze]

21 hours ago, technoman said:

Our "Princess Plus" fare includes our Princess Plus Beverage Package, Wi-Fi and Crew Appreciation!

Wow those crew appreciation charges apx £353  for the trip and then 18% on top even if you take out the Princess plus package seem eye watering expensive. It says on the princess website you can adjust the  crew appreciation amount ? is this done at the end of the trip as realistically i would not want to pay more than £150 per cabin.  

Gratuity can be adjusted at guest services. I always make mine between $10-$12 PP PD. They are scalping to charge the same for all cabins since the service is the same and you pay so much more as the category goes up. They don't ask any questions and are happy to accommodate this adjustment. The gratuity on beverages is not adjustable. If you find someone you want to tip extra just give them cash discreetly. People do a lot of bragging how they tip more then the suggested amounts, take it with a grain of salt. Do what you feel is appropriate.

[skynight]

58 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

Gratuity can be adjusted at guest services. I always make mine between $10-$12 PP PD. 

You say you have adjusted the crew incentive. Have you done this with an inclusive fare? My understanding is that when you have the plus or other inclusive fare, crew incentive is included as part of the fare. It can not be broken out and adjusted. This is the fare the poster has. While Princess informs you of the value based upon their normal charge for those who select the standard fare the actual amount included is only known to Princess.

[KeepCalmBearOn]

6 hours ago, technoman said:

A few bucks, your joking right 29 bucks per day per cabin is ridiculous.

 

"A Yorkshireman is a Scotsman with all the generosity squeezed out of him"

[Magellan321]

2 hours ago, skynight said:

You say you have adjusted the crew incentive. Have you done this with an inclusive fare? My understanding is that when you have the plus or other inclusive fare, crew incentive is included as part of the fare. It can not be broken out and adjusted. This is the fare the poster has. While Princess informs you of the value based upon their normal charge for those who select the standard fare the actual amount included is only known to Princess.

Correct it is included in the plus fare and cannot be reduced. As for the other persons theory of reducing their tips... well.... higher category equals greater square footage cabin to clean and less cabins assigned to the stewards giving less number of tips collected. 

 

[sloopsailor]

6 hours ago, technoman said:

A few bucks, your joking right 29 bucks per day per cabin is ridiculous. P&O dont charge gratuities and they are part of the same group and even cruises starting in the UK dont charge those kind of prices surely the 18% extra they charge on drinks should be enough to supplement the crew pay. We have worked all our lives in low paying jobs and therefore have to make the most of our limited pension pots so we are always looking for the best package deals too see parts of the world we have not seen before and are not trying to remove supplementary income of the crew members. 

 

You have proven my point quite well. 

 

For myself, if I can't afford something, I don't purchase it. That includes cruises, INCLUDING the service charges for the crew. We don't stiff people who have even less money than us in order to afford what amounts to a luxury item. And we especially don't whine and complain about being "forced" to compensate them. That is how decent people treat others who are less fortunate - and how smart people handle their money. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by sloopsailor

[sloopsailor]

3 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

Gratuity can be adjusted at guest services. I always make mine between $10-$12 PP PD. They are scalping to charge the same for all cabins since the service is the same and you pay so much more as the category goes up. They don't ask any questions and are happy to accommodate this adjustment. The gratuity on beverages is not adjustable. If you find someone you want to tip extra just give them cash discreetly. People do a lot of bragging how they tip more then the suggested amounts, take it with a grain of salt. Do what you feel is appropriate.

 

And those people you tip "discreetly" have to turn in those tips to the pool for distribution IF you remove or reduce your gratuities. All those tips are retained until the end of the cruise when the purser will go over all the tip amounts collected, whether by personal methods or automatically charged to the room. If the crew member doesn't, they risk being terminated. This has been confirmed in previous tipping threads by two people here on Cruise Critic who are, or have been, pursers on cruise ships. 

 

Like Magellan321 has mentioned, the higher category cabins have more square footage to clean, therefore the tip amounts are slightly larger. So that argument of yours is not at all valid. 

 

So, all you are doing is putting the burden on the people you secretly tip, who now have to pass along those very tips to everyone else in the pool. You have made more work for yourself AND that person, while causing anyone who has served you to be suspected of giving poor service, which may hinder their ability to be promoted or retained when their contract ends.

 

Ironically, your selfishness is hurting the very people you think you are helping. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by sloopsailor

[suzyed]

7 hours ago, technoman said:

A few bucks, your joking right 29 bucks per day per cabin is ridiculous. P&O dont charge gratuities and they are part of the same group and even cruises starting in the UK dont charge those kind of prices surely the 18% extra they charge on drinks should be enough to supplement the crew pay. We have worked all our lives in low paying jobs and therefore have to make the most of our limited pension pots so we are always looking for the best package deals too see parts of the world we have not seen before and are not trying to remove supplementary income of the crew members. 

😀

[suzyed]

17 hours ago, sloopsailor said:

Well said! It never fails to amaze me that some people decide to cheat the staff out of their usual earnings to save a few bucks that they certainly can afford if the can afford to cruise in the first place. That a person would willingly remove a part of the income of people who are much less affluent than the passenger is, and need that money much more than the passenger does, is extremely disappointing. Thank you for saying it so well. 

Agree with both you and PTMary.  I don't get how people can spend thousands on a cruise and then stiff the crew.  Just terrible.

[technoman]

15 hours ago, suzyed said:

Agree with both you and PTMary.  I don't get how people can spend thousands on a cruise and then stiff the crew.  Just terrible.

Ok i get it. Its a cultural thing where people follow the heard like sheep because its the 'Done Thang'

From my point of view i guess i would consider the princess plus as part of the package and not paying the $50 plus dollars per day pp. I dont object to paying some form of gratuity but i do object to the amount being charged. In a hotel you would pay $2-3 per day maybe for the maid service and i did say i was prepared to pay around $10 per day per cabin . Its Princess that  is stiffing the crew by not paying them the correct level of pay and again lets not forget the 18% Service gratuity on drinks pathetic when the price of the drinks are expensive. 

Thanks to all posters who contributed sensible comments.

[Jersey42]

4 hours ago, technoman said:

Ok i get it. Its a cultural thing where people follow the heard like sheep because its the 'Done Thang'

From my point of view i guess i would consider the princess plus as part of the package and not paying the $50 plus dollars per day pp. I dont object to paying some form of gratuity but i do object to the amount being charged. In a hotel you would pay $2-3 per day maybe for the maid service and i did say i was prepared to pay around $10 per day per cabin . Its Princess that  is stiffing the crew by not paying them the correct level of pay and again lets not forget the 18% Service gratuity on drinks pathetic when the price of the drinks are expensive. 

Thanks to all posters who contributed sensible comments.

Let's ignore the philosophical question of tipping.  There clearly are cultural differences and no one is correct, it's just a difference in how things are done in different countries.  

 

Based on some of your wording I just want to be sure you understand how things will work onboard.  This is all based on post 4 that says the Princess Plus fare is part of your holiday package.

• All of your drinks up to $12 are included (maximum of 15 alcoholic drinks per day).  No additional 18% gratuity will be added to each drink.  Most drinks are $12 or less.
• Wi-fi is included.  It may or may not work well, but you will not see a charge for it.
• You will not see any charge for tips/gratuity/crew appreciation.  This includes tips for your room steward, waiters or anyone else.  You are not expected to add any tips onboard.  That said guest services will not refund you any portion of your cruise fare including amounts going to the crew.

 

So you may not agree how your cruise fare is being allocated, but I wanted to be sure you realize that you will not be paying any any extra for the above items (including tips) once you get onboard.

 

By the way, on the land portion of your trip if you go to any restaurants that are not included in your package, you are expected to leave an 18-20% tip for your server.  

Edited August 18, 2022 by Jersey42

[skynight]

4 hours ago, technoman said:

Its Princess that  is stiffing the crew by not paying them the correct level of pay and again lets not forget the 18% Service gratuity on drinks pathetic when the price of the drinks are expensive. 

Thanks to all posters who contributed sensible comments.

Just so you understand. We live in a very rural area, not in a city where prices are higher. A standard cocktail at a restaurant would cost around $8 to $10. A standard tip to the bartender would be around $2. People tend to use one dollar bills as tips or add even amounts to their charge card. A pint of beer would cost anywhere from $3 to $6 depending on what is ordered. It is normal practice to leave a $1/pint ordered. So the tip percentage varies from 33% for the $3 pint to 17% for the $6 beer. This is normal. Based on these numbers, pricing and tipping at our local restaurants is close to what is charged by Princess. bartenders and waiters receive very low/hour pay. They count on the tips. If the per/hour pay was raised then the base prices would also go up and eventually level out. It is how the system works in the U.S. So no I don't believe the drinks on Princess are expensive compared to what we pay locally and I don't believe the service charge is out of line.

[Ptroxx]

What gets me. Is if you don’t like the practices of how the US works.   Why do you come here.   
there’s plenty of cruises in the other parts of the world.  
If you want to come to the US. Then deal with what it has to offer and quit complaining.     

Side note.  Plus you already payed for the Plus fair.  so you knew what you were getting.  

[PTMary]

6 hours ago, technoman said:

Ok i get it. Its a cultural thing where people follow the heard like sheep because its the 'Done Thang'

From my point of view i guess i would consider the princess plus as part of the package and not paying the $50 plus dollars per day pp. I dont object to paying some form of gratuity but i do object to the amount being charged. In a hotel you would pay $2-3 per day maybe for the maid service and i did say i was prepared to pay around $10 per day per cabin . Its Princess that  is stiffing the crew by not paying them the correct level of pay and again lets not forget the 18% Service gratuity on drinks pathetic when the price of the drinks are expensive. 

Thanks to all posters who contributed sensible comments.

 

The way tips are handled on US based cruise ships has as much to do with tax laws in the crew members home country as it does for cultural reasons. For a quick summary of these reasons, read this linked post from a different discussion if you care about educating yourself about how this is handled on Princess and other cruise lines. Perhaps then you might no longer be so incensed about how this is handled.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2871504-tipping-at-the-port-how-much/?do=findComment&comment=63729764

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by PTMary

[Ptroxx]

8 minutes ago, PTMary said:

 

The way tips are handled on US based cruise ships has as much to do with tax laws in the crew members home country as it does for cultural reasons. For a quick summary of these reasons, read this linked post from a different discussion if you care about educating yourself about how this is handled on Princess and other cruise lines. Perhaps then you might no longer be so incensed about how this is handled.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2871504-tipping-at-the-port-how-much/?do=findComment&comment=63729764

 

You’re wasting your time.  Lol.  

[PTMary]

3 minutes ago, Ptroxx said:

You’re wasting your time.  Lol.  

 

Yeah, I know. Some of those old world English speaking cultures are stubborn and think they are superior to the much younger, and much more advanced, "colonies". But, I have to keep hoping. Otherwise civilization is doomed - at least in those other countries!  LOL!

Edited August 18, 2022 by PTMary

[Ptroxx]

4 minutes ago, PTMary said:

 

Yeah, I know. Some of those old world English speaking cultures are stubborn and think they are superior. But, I have to keep hoping. Otherwise civilization is doomed - at least in those countries!  LOL!

Right.  What’s funny.  My last trip to Europe. I was in 9 countries 18 cities.  
and I tipped everyone that served me.  
wonder why they didn’t return my tips and say oh we don’t accept tips in our country because we are well paid.   
lol.  Oh well.  As long as I feel good about how I tip that’s all that matters. Lol. 

[PTMary]

1 minute ago, Ptroxx said:

Right.  What’s funny.  My last trip to Europe. I was in 9 countries 18 cities.  
and I tipped everyone that served me.  
wonder why they didn’t return my tips and say oh we don’t accept tips in our country because we are well paid.   
lol.  Oh well.  As long as I feel good about how I tip that’s all that matters. Lol. 

 

Careful where you tip. Some countries consider it an insult when people from more generous countries, especially Americans, give them a tip to show their appreciation for their service. They won't refuse the tip, but they will complain about those "Ugly" Americans while spending it. 

[Ptroxx]

9 minutes ago, PTMary said:

 

Careful where you tip. Some countries consider it an insult when people from more generous countries, especially Americans, give them a tip to show their appreciation for their service. They won't refuse the tip, but they will complain about those "Ugly" Americans while spending it. 

They can complain all they want. No sweat of my back.    As long as I know I did a good thing for good service.  
I’ve been called a lot worse things than ugly from Americans. Lol.
So that’s not a big deal Lolol.  

[technoman]

3 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

What gets me. Is if you don’t like the practices of how the US works.   Why do you come here.   
there’s plenty of cruises in the other parts of the world.  
If you want to come to the US. Then deal with what it has to offer and quit complaining.     

Side note.  Plus you already payed for the Plus fair.  so you knew what you were getting.  

The comment in post 4 was from the Princess website on why they make the charge. We would be on the standard fare on the package in my original post, i should have been clearer. So the basic cruise if booked in the UK is £999pp and the Plus is £1699pp. Have been to the US on at least 4 trips and i have paid my fair share of tips  Orlando and Clearwater twice, New England in the fall including New York and Boston and the Grand Canyon, San Francisco Boston Mohawk Trail. 

I would much rather do that than sit on my bum in Mc Donalds or Wendys and worry about how much i should tip. I have also read the Tip Etiquette on Tripadvisor. I seem to remember that tips used to be 8-12% it wont be long before you might as well double the bill rather than be concerned about offending anyone. I still feel the Gratuities and the 18% is too much but it is just my opinion and if it makes happy to pay that percentage then everything is ticketyboo.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html

 

[Ptroxx]

47 minutes ago, technoman said:

The comment in post 4 was from the Princess website on why they make the charge. We would be on the standard fare on the package in my original post, i should have been clearer. So the basic cruise if booked in the UK is £999pp and the Plus is £1699pp. Have been to the US on at least 4 trips and i have paid my fair share of tips  Orlando and Clearwater twice, New England in the fall including New York and Boston and the Grand Canyon, San Francisco Boston Mohawk Trail. 

I would much rather do that than sit on my bum in Mc Donalds or Wendys and worry about how much i should tip. I have also read the Tip Etiquette on Tripadvisor. I seem to remember that tips used to be 8-12% it wont be long before you might as well double the bill rather than be concerned about offending anyone. I still feel the Gratuities and the 18% is too much but it is just my opinion and if it makes happy to pay that percentage then everything is ticketyboo.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html

 

So if you’ve been here and are use to our tipping then why are you complaining.  
if you come to a country that is a tipping country then tip.   If you want to complain about it then don’t come and sit on your bum.  
  I’m sure they can sell your cabin to someone else that’s glad to tip.    
ticketydoo to you too.