Carnival Redesigning the VIFP program?

[ShakyBeef]

1 minute ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

People on this thread are complaining about cut backs that they personally do not like. Whats worse is MSC matching your status from certain cruiselines which is giving people the "perks" when they were not earned, insulting the passengers who spent thousands to earn those perks. 

 

Hmm. OK.  I guess that's one way to look at it.

[ShakyBeef]

18 minutes ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

...giving people the "perks" when they were not earned, insulting the passengers who spent thousands to earn those perks. 

 

I see the cruiseline loyalty programs differently from you and many others from whom I've heard this kind of comment.  I didn't spend my many thousands to earn perks.  I spent my many thousands to take cruises with features and experiences that I wanted and chose as part of my vacation. 

 

If a cruiseline chooses to reward my continued use of their product, I am happy to receive those "thank you" gifts.  But they are just that - gifts from them to me.  I didn't earn them.  I didn't purchase them.  I'm not entitled to them.  I have no right or desire to complain about others also receiving those gifts.  And I'm certainly not insulted by it.

Edited September 7, 2022 by ShakyBeef

[DrSea]

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

I've been on MANY CCL cruises that had dead clubs as well...

fair enough. Are they typically on longer cruises? I strongly prefer the shorter cruises on CCL bc of the booze cruise atmosphere. 

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

10 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

I see the cruiseline loyalty programs differently from you and many others from whom I've heard this kind of comment.  I didn't spend my many thousands to earn perks.  I spent my many thousands to take cruises with features and experiences that I wanted and chose as part of my vacation. 

 

If a cruiseline chooses to reward my continued use of their product, I am happy to receive those "thank you" gifts.  But they are just that - gifts from them to me.  I didn't earn them.  I didn't purchase them.  I'm not entitled to them.  I have no right or desire to complain about others also receiving those gifts.  And I'm certainly not insulted by it.

You make a good point also. Perhaps some people have outgrown cruising and expect too much? Take a peek over at the other cruiselines threads. All of them have comments about cutbacks, this and that. Its a hampster wheel that doesn't stop. 

[1kaper]

6 minutes ago, ChC said:

What MSC did by creativity is to extend your membership level as long as you cruise with them once every year or 3 years (I need to double check on this one),

 

You are correct.  It says you need to sail once every 3 years to maintain status.  I did not realize this was the reason why though.  You learn something new every day. 

[ShakyBeef]

3 minutes ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

You make a good point also. Perhaps some people have outgrown cruising and expect too much? Take a peek over at the other cruiselines threads. All of them have comments about cutbacks, this and that. Its a hampster wheel that doesn't stop. 

 

Now, the issue of cutbacks is an entirely different beast for me.  When the cruiseline cuts back on the product that I am purchasing, I do get irritated.  I HATE shrinkflation!  Raise the price, charge me what you need to in order to make your reasonable profit for a comparable product to which you (the cruiseline) have taught me to expect.  But don't cheapen / shrink / degrade the product and expect me to blissfully oblivious.  I'm not an idiot, I understand everything is more expensive than it used to be, thus, I expect to have to pay more.  I am a bit insulted by shrinkflation (cutbacks) in the cruise product.  But not cutbacks in the VIFP program, which, as I said, is not the product I am purchasing.

[mz-s]

10 minutes ago, ChC said:

 

MSC by some awkward Italian law that can only offer membership based on 3 years time span. So was Costa and the famous Italian airlines. What MSC did by creativity is to extend your membership level as long as you cruise with them once every year or 3 years (I need to double check on this one), whereas Costa is strictly following the 3 rolling years rule. And look at where MSC and Costa is now compared with 10 years ago?

 

Then another example is P&O UK. At one stage it was a combined program with Princess. It worked really well. Then the incoming CEO decided to have its own program, and under Costa lead (when P&O was absorbed into Costa Europe corporate structure), the program was redesigned into a 3 years loyalty time span. I would not comment on how P&O UK is doing now. One may have different opinion on this issue.

 

A cruise industry membership program restricted on short term loyalty would not last long nor increase life time long term value. People will abandon the cruise line after they are downgraded if another line is offering life-time recognition. It is very different from airline and hotel programs where corporate travellers are the main elite member pool. Annual spending of $3000-5000 can buy you top tier in hotel loyalty program and earn your upto150,000 points (with promotions like 2000 nights per night and bonus points packages) and those points are good for 2-10 free nights, $3,000-5,000 spending on a cruise line will get you nothing maybe a 7-12 days cruise for two, and no reward points nor free cruise. 

 

The only way to redesign a cruise line loyalty program is to drive direct sales and cross brands sales and provide real rewards in return (i.e. reduce the reliance on travel agent and third party vendors from 80-90% to 25-50%). For cruise line providing simple vacation itineraries like Carnival, it is easier to achieve, as the customers are younger and more technology capable. It might be difficult for lines like HAL or P&O UK, as the cruisers are more mature, and the itineraries are more complicated. 

 

Are people currently sticking with a cruise line because of their loyalty perks? Are the loyalty programs actually sticky or are they just a fringe benefit?

[mz-s]

3 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

Now, the issue of cutbacks is an entirely different beast for me.  When the cruiseline cuts back on the product that I am purchasing, I do get irritated.  I HATE shrinkflation!  Raise the price, charge me what you need to in order to make your reasonable profit for a comparable product to which you (the cruiseline) have taught me to expect.  But don't cheapen / shrink / degrade the product and expect me to blissfully oblivious.  I'm not an idiot, I understand everything is more expensive than it used to be, thus, I expect to have to pay more.  I am a bit insulted by shrinkflation (cutbacks) in the cruise product.  But not cutbacks in the VIFP program, which, as I said, is not the product I am purchasing.

 

The main frustration I have with Carnival since the restart is it's a surprise every time you board what will be cut back this time.

[topaz123]

10 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

The main frustration I have with Carnival since the restart is it's a surprise every time you board what will be cut back this time.

Wife and I always find something that has been dropped.....disappointing.

[ShakyBeef]

1 minute ago, mz-s said:

 

The main frustration I have with Carnival since the restart is it's a surprise every time you board what will be cut back this time.

 

I have had this issue with carnival since waaaaay before COVID.  In fact, I haven't cruised since the restart.  The constant cutbacks have been happening for at least the last 15 years.  It's main reason I come back to CruiseCritic after booking each cruise  - to research what new cutbacks have occurred since my last cruise.  This is partially to adjust my expectations and get my disappointment out of the way before Embarkation Day, and partially to find out what I need to add to my packing list to DIY my cruise comfort because of these cutbacks.  I've been saying this for years here.  I've never been one to enjoy saying "I told you so".   So although I'm slightly amused,  I'm also a little sad to see some of the former Carnival Cheerleaders here that would jump on me in the past with unbridled vitriol for having the nerve to mention cutbacks being some of those complaining about the cutbacks now. 

 

[DrSea]

26 minutes ago, ChC said:

 

MSC by some awkward Italian law that can only offer membership based on 3 years time span. So was Costa and the famous Italian airlines. What MSC did by creativity is to extend your membership level as long as you cruise with them once every year or 3 years (I need to double check on this one), whereas Costa is strictly following the 3 rolling years rule. And look at where MSC and Costa is now compared with 10 years ago?

 

Then another example is P&O UK. At one stage it was a combined program with Princess. It worked really well. Then the incoming CEO decided to have its own program, and under Costa lead (when P&O was absorbed into Costa Europe corporate structure), the program was redesigned into a 3 years loyalty time span. I would not comment on how P&O UK is doing now. One may have different opinion on this issue.

 

A cruise industry membership program restricted on short term loyalty would not last long nor increase life time long term value. People will abandon the cruise line after they are downgraded if another line is offering life-time recognition. It is very different from airline and hotel programs where corporate travellers are the main elite member pool. Annual spending of $3000-5000 can buy you top tier in hotel loyalty program and earn your upto150,000 points (with promotions like 2000 nights per night and bonus points packages) and those points are good for 2-10 free nights, $3,000-5,000 spending on a cruise line will get you nothing maybe a 7-12 days cruise for two, and no reward points nor free cruise. 

 

The only way to redesign a cruise line loyalty program is to drive direct sales and cross brands sales and provide real rewards in return (i.e. reduce the reliance on travel agent and third party vendors from 80-90% to 25-50%). For cruise line providing simple vacation itineraries like Carnival, it is easier to achieve, as the customers are younger and more technology capable. It might be difficult for lines like HAL or P&O UK, as the cruisers are more mature, and the itineraries are more complicated. 

very thoughtful analysis.

 

13 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Are people currently sticking with a cruise line because of their loyalty perks? Are the loyalty programs actually sticky or are they just a fringe benefit?

For me, just (very) fringe benefits. But I see how it is sticky for some. 

[ShakyBeef]

1 minute ago, ChC said:

 

Thank you. I should have just said:

 

Airlines/Hotels=reward program with recognition

Cruise lines=loyalty recognition program without reward

 

to summarize my argument. That might be easier and quicker for many people to understand the core differences.

 

OT, sorry, but I can't resist telling you: you have a great smile!😀

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

24 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

Now, the issue of cutbacks is an entirely different beast for me.  When the cruiseline cuts back on the product that I am purchasing, I do get irritated.  I HATE shrinkflation!  Raise the price, charge me what you need to in order to make your reasonable profit for a comparable product to which you (the cruiseline) have taught me to expect.  But don't cheapen / shrink / degrade the product and expect me to blissfully oblivious.  I'm not an idiot, I understand everything is more expensive than it used to be, thus, I expect to have to pay more.  I am a bit insulted by shrinkflation (cutbacks) in the cruise product.  But not cutbacks in the VIFP program, which, as I said, is not the product I am purchasing.

The glaring issue is some believe they are cutbacks and some don't. I agree that the VIFP program is not the product anyone is purchasing however people do use the word 'cutback' rather frequently in relation to the VIFP program. Cutback on perks, cutback on gifts, etc. I understand your point and opinion, very well described. I think everyone's take on what a cutback is vastly different. Again, my opinion. 

[DrSea]

1 minute ago, ChC said:

 

Thank you. I should have just said:

 

Airlines/Hotels=reward program with recognition

Cruise lines=loyalty recognition program without reward

 

to summarize my argument. That might be easier and quicker for many people to understand the core differences.

Another example to bolster your point: Virgin. 

 

They initially had a very meager loyalty program. Now they are actively expanding it.

 

How bad is P&O doing? I am an American so IDK anything about P&O other than being the UK cousin of PCL

[Ilovesailaway]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

Some people love to make mountains out of molehills.

Joe you make some good points. I agree people tend to focus on the negative. I can work  around inconveniences like long pizza lines and slow MDR service. What I won't tolerate are disruptive passengers who create unsafe environments. Carnival needs to address this problem now. As I said if I experience this behavior on my cruise I will be taking a break from Carnival. I am sure I won't be the only one leaving but most won't say why.

[cruisequeen4ever]

I can just see it. The person is hired, and his or her boss says, “your first task is to read the mile long thread about your job on Cruise Critic”. 🤣

[ledges1]

Could the cutbacks be in lock step with the new clientele that Carnival appears to be attracting?

[DrSea]

1 hour ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I can just see it. The person is hired, and his or her boss says, “your first task is to read the mile long thread about your job on Cruise Critic”. 🤣

I'll take that job. I do that anyways. Might as well make some money while at it. lol

[DrSea]

30 minutes ago, ledges1 said:

Could the cutbacks be in lock step with the new clientele that Carnival appears to be attracting?

I can't imagine they would be. CCL is just penny pinching to maximize profits

[DallasGuy75219]

2 hours ago, ledges1 said:

Could the cutbacks be in lock step with the new clientele that Carnival appears to be attracting?

The low prices Carnival is charging to fill the ships are attracting the new clientele.  At the same time Carnival is cutting everything possible, resulting in the Motel 6/Golden Corral experience that those new clientele are happy with. 

 

If that’s the brand that Carnival wants to become, so be it, but even as a Diamond my loyalty only goes so far, and that Carnival is longer for me. I've moved on to Princess and Royal unless there's a specific reason to book Carnival (namely a specific group I cruise with or because they have the most options out of New Orleans where I have family nearby).  

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

The low prices Carnival is charging to fill the ships are attracting the new clientele.  At the same time Carnival is cutting everything possible, resulting in the Motel 6/Golden Corral experience that those new clientele are happy with. 

 

If that’s the brand that Carnival wants to become, so be it, but even as a Diamond my loyalty only goes so far, and that Carnival is longer for me. I've moved on to Princess and Royal unless there's a specific reason to book Carnival (namely a specific group I cruise with or because they have the most options out of New Orleans where I have family nearby).  

 

Yeah other than quick getaways at drive-to ports or family get togethers, I'm pretty much done with Carnival as well unless they're willing to get the experience back to closer to what it was before COVID. I don't mind paying more, and I am doing so with other lines. I liked Carnival's product but don't like the current iteration. "I'm just happy to be cruising again" isn't good enough for me anymore.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I'm not so sure that there is a "new clientele". I rather think that it's the same mix of people, and that some of those fringe folks have just become a little more emboldened - just like we see with society as a whole.

 

Tom

[jsglow]

Isn't it interesting how's there's different strokes for different folks?  I just got off the beautiful Royal Princess.  Had an unbelievably great time on a 13 night Alaska landcruise.  But I absolutely missed being on a good old Spirit class or Sunshine class boat. I was still getting lost after a week and while it was cool to hear opera from Magic Flute and strings in the main atrium, I was wishing for some 'Showstoppas' from my days on Pride last year.

 

Sail on.

[lele100]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:14 AM, DallasGuy75219 said:

Myself included. Carnival's death by a thousand cuts has turned their product into such crap that they can't give it away (at least to me).  

 

I get casino offers for free cruises on Royal, Princess, and Carnival, and Carnival is my last choice. I currently only have 3 Carnival cruises currently booked because (1) I needed to use FCC from COVID cancellations before it expired, (2) another is with a group I enjoy cruising with, and (3) they have the most options out of New Orleans if I want to combine a cruise with a visit to family nearby.

 

On my last Carnival cruise (first post-restart), again my last choice and booked only because Royal canceled my Jewel cruise a month out and I already had hotel and airfare booked, I found myself constantly comparing my experience to Royal or Princess and so often concluded "this would be better on Royal or Princess because (insert reason)" and then would just get irritated with the whole Carnival experience. 

OMG so funny you say that ,  I say the same thing here.  When going on RCL or NCL and comparing it to Carnival.  For me the fun does not compare to Carnival.  I always say "I can 't believe they don't have this Carnival does" OR "I can't believe they don't do this Carnival does".  I guess its human nature to compare to what you are used to.  I have to tell you Nothing compares to the free food offerings on Carnival that they have at lunch especially on the Mardi Gras, and on that ship even 5 free dinner options not just buffet and Main dining rooms, and about 10 free places for lunch.  Options I Love options, I get bored quickly

[DallasGuy75219]

1 hour ago, lele100 said:

I have to tell you Nothing compares to the free food offerings on Carnival that they have at lunch especially on the Mardi Gras, and on that ship even 5 free dinner options not just buffet and Main dining rooms, and about 10 free places for lunch.

Yes, I have Mardi Gras booked for next year.  Otherwise the newest Carnival ships I've sailed on are Dream class; had Horizon and Panorama booked but those were canceled during shutdown.

 

Hoping that the Excel class ships are at least something revolutionary, otherwise everything Carnival has built (other than Spirit class) since Destiny has basically been the same design with just more decks, cabins, and length added.  Yes, they've replaced other venues with Guy's and Blue Iguana in drydock, but those too get boring due to limited menus and being on every ship in the fleet.

 

Also in my mind, it's not just what the cruiselines offer but what they can successfully execute.  Carnival has had issues executing what they offer due to staffing cuts way before COVID, not just post-restart due to crew availability.