CBSA Doesn't Care - ArrveCAN Policy

[Fouremco]

Holland America insists that passengers on cruises departing and not returning to Canada must nevertheless make an ArriveCAN submission. This is contrary to GOC policy that states the following:

 

 

Additionally, HAL is requiring passengers to falsify their submission by indicating a fictitious port of arrival in Canada, as the app cannot be completed without a port of arrival being entered.

 

In an attempt to clarify this issue, I called the ArriveCAN information number and, following a long wait, finally spoke to a representative who clearly knew far less about ArriveCAN than I did. It turned out that she is a member of a general GOC call centre staff and not a CBSA employee. She suggested that I call CBSA directly and provided me with a phone number.

 

After another protracted wait, I spoke to an employee/officer of CBSA who readily confirmed that for cruises leaving and not returning to Canada there was no need to complete ArriveCAN. When I asked about HAL's insistence that passengers make a submission, her reply was "We don't care." She stated that the cruise line can do what it wants, and reiterated that CBSA doesn't care. Passengers should just do whatever HAL wants. When I asked why CBSA doesn't care, especially as HAL is getting passengers to falsify submissions with fictitious arrival information, she said it wasn't falsified and hung up on me. I never had the chance to ask about the potential impact on CBSA resources of thousands upon thousands of unnecessary submissions.

 

Given the CBSA representative's assertion that HAL can do what it wants and demand ArriveCAN submissions, even if not required by the GOC, from this point forward my advice to anyone on CC will be to do as HAL requests. I don't agree with CBSA's approach, but it's their policy and they can decide how to implement it. ArriveCAAN comes under fire daily for a host of other reasons, and this issue is rather minor in the greater skeme of things. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[broberts]

Thanks for the effort. 

[rg123]

Yes, thank you. That is unbelievable. I am under the impression that Royal wants this as well and I couldn’t figure out how to even proceed as our cruise is one that leaves Canada and never returns. (We will initially fill out a form before we fly into Canada). 

[LHT28]

So I wonder  if any Canadians  have not filled out the ARRIVECAN   & been denied boarding  for any of these cruises that are leaving Canada??

 

 

 

[Coquitlam Cruiser]

Thanks for the update.  Connaught building doesn’t surprise me.   Spent many hours there in my past life. 

[em-sk]

5 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 

 

Given the CBSA representative's assertion that HAL can do what it wants and demand ArriveCAN submissions, even if not required by the GOC, from this point forward my advice to anyone on CC will be to do as HAL requests. I don't agree with CBSA's approach, but it's their policy and they can decide how to implement it. ArriveCAAN comes under fire daily for a host of other reasons, and this issue is rather minor in the greater skeme of things. 

 

 

I think it makes sense for CBSA not to want to deal with it at this point.  It is September.  

 

Before the start of the cruise season the cruise line had to prepare a ships manual that defined the procedures it would follow in Canada based on the Canadian regulations.  Transport Canada distributes the draft manual to all the other relevant agencies.  They all review for compliance and approve.  Once approved by the government they are following their line/ship specific manual.

 

Given its September, the season is almost over.   Before the cruise season starts again next year they are going to go through that whole process again.   Hopefully HAL gets it right next year.

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by em-sk

[bebe08]

Thanks for looking into this much appreciated!  Hopefully next cruise season there will be fewer restrictions for cruises from Canada and there won't be so many hoops to jump through.  

[Fouremco]

9 hours ago, em-sk said:

 

I think it makes sense for CBSA not to want to deal with it at this point.  It is September. 

I agree, they've left it far too late. They should have dealt with this issue back in the Spring when it first arose. 

[Crown Vic]

16 hours ago, Fouremco said:

…She suggested that I call CBSA directly and provided me with a phone number...When I asked why CBSA doesn't care, especially as HAL is getting passengers to falsify submissions with fictitious arrival information, she said it wasn't falsified and hung up on me. I never had the chance to ask about the potential impact on CBSA resources of thousands upon thousands of unnecessary submissions... 

Fouremco, as usual, two 👍 👍 for effort. Ain’t it lotsa fun to deal with our bureaucracy? Treating the Public with dignity and respect should be one of the first training sessions for Government employees who are the ‘front line’.
Well done though! You deserve a reward cruise…

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, Crown Vic said:

Fouremco, as usual, two 👍 👍 for effort. Ain’t it lotsa fun to deal with our bureaucracy? Treating the Public with dignity and respect should be one of the first training sessions for Government employees who are the ‘front line’.
Well done though! You deserve a reward cruise…

Maybe late on the Friday afternoon of a long weekend wasn't the best time for me to place a call. My bad! 🙃

[Crown Vic]

Just now, Fouremco said:

Maybe late on the Friday afternoon of a long weekend wasn't the best time for me to place a call. My bad! 🙃

Enjoy NON Labour Day…

[Chinook Wind]

I'll be on HAL's September 7-17 QC>Boston cruise.  What "fictitious Canadian port" are other folks using when filling out their ArriveCan form? 

And what will happen when we have to fill the form out for the bona fide Boston>Canada flight home?

😬

[SilvertoGold]

1 hour ago, Chinook Wind said:

I'll be on HAL's September 7-17 QC>Boston cruise.  What "fictitious Canadian port" are other folks using when filling out their ArriveCan form? 

And what will happen when we have to fill the form out for the bona fide Boston>Canada flight home?

😬

How about the first (or last) Canadian port on the cruise? Why not, eh?

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Chinook Wind said:

I'll be on HAL's September 7-17 QC>Boston cruise.  What "fictitious Canadian port" are other folks using when filling out their ArriveCan form? 

And what will happen when we have to fill the form out for the bona fide Boston>Canada flight home?

😬

 

People have reported that the cruise lines requiring a fictitious submission have recommended using the port of departure.

[stefndoug]

Our cruise does Vancouver, Victoria, at sea (2 days) and then San Diego.  I am just going to use Victoria as my arrival port.  Normally you don't do US customs at Canada Place with this itinerary (I have done it 3 times already), but I am just going to pretend that we do and then consider that we are entering Canada again in Victoria 🙂  Boy, what a pain in the ass.  Can't wait until all this is done.

[tert333]

12 hours ago, stefndoug said:

Our cruise does Vancouver, Victoria, at sea (2 days) and then San Diego.  I am just going to use Victoria as my arrival port.  Normally you don't do US customs at Canada Place with this itinerary (I have done it 3 times already), but I am just going to pretend that we do and then consider that we are entering Canada again in Victoria 🙂  Boy, what a pain in the ass.  Can't wait until all this is done.

We have something similar where we leave Vancouver, stop at Victoria and end up in LA.   I did not think that you needed to do the Arrivecan app for Victoria as you are not leaving Canadian water between Vancouver and Victoria?

 

Do you normally do US customs in San Diego in your case?

 

[SilvertoGold]

9 minutes ago, tert333 said:

We have something similar where we leave Vancouver, stop at Victoria and end up in LA.   I did not think that you needed to do the Arrivecan app for Victoria as you are not leaving Canadian water between Vancouver and Victoria?

 

Do you normally do US customs in San Diego in your case?

 

Boarding in Vancouver requires Arrivcan submission. Easy and quick to do.  In cases like your it has been suggested that you put in Victoria as your port of Arrival.

 

Have a great cruise!

[broberts]

44 minutes ago, SilvertoGold said:

Boarding in Vancouver requires Arrivcan submission. Easy and quick to do.  In cases like your it has been suggested that you put in Victoria as your port of Arrival.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

This may be true for some cruise lines, but not all and as post #1 lays out definitely not a requirement of GOC. In fact the ArriveCAN instructions say that it should not be used by those boarding a cruise that leaves Canada and does not return.

 

A number of posters that have consulted their cruise lines have reported being told to use the port of embarkation, i.e. Vancouver. I have not seen a post saying that cruise lines are suggesting use of any other port. Regardless, any Canadian port used as the port of entry in this situation is a false statement so it really doesn't matter.

[tert333]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

This may be true for some cruise lines, but not all and as post #1 lays out definitely not a requirement of GOC. In fact the ArriveCAN instructions say that it should not be used by those boarding a cruise that leaves Canada and does not return.

 

A number of posters that have consulted their cruise lines have reported being told to use the port of embarkation, i.e. Vancouver. I have not seen a post saying that cruise lines are suggesting use of any other port. Regardless, any Canadian port used as the port of entry in this situation is a false statement so it really doesn't matter.

I reached out to Princess and they recommended that I do the arrivecan app.  However, I agree that I do not think I need to do it, but I guess there is no harm in doing it just in case. 

[turnin50]

Thank you Foremco for going through all this for us, the cruiselines really need to update their requirements as the government rules change its stupid to fill out ArriveCan if one is not technically arriving! We are sailing with Royal Sept 23 from Vancouver to Hawaii not returning to Vancouver on the ship, we are not going to fill it out and if for some reason upon check in the person asks us I guess we'll do it right there! Hopefully Royal isn't as clueless and HAL.

[LHT28]

23 minutes ago, turnin50 said:

Thank you Foremco for going through all this for us, the cruiselines really need to update their requirements as the government rules change its stupid to fill out ArriveCan if one is not technically arriving! We are sailing with Royal Sept 23 from Vancouver to Hawaii not returning to Vancouver on the ship, we are not going to fill it out and if for some reason upon check in the person asks us I guess we'll do it right there! Hopefully Royal isn't as clueless and HAL.

Let  us know  how you make out

 

 I am with you  I would not fill it out either  when clearly not required  😉

[turnin50]

Will do. No doubt we won’t be the first at check in to question this so the check in agent should be able to advise us whether we need to fill it out and if so how. 

[Chinook Wind]

Leaving Wednesday for QC>Boston.  Just filled out the ArriveCan form using Quebec as my "point of arrival".  Received the "confirmation receipt" with the QR code in no time flat but there was no green check mark.  Can't remember when we get that...

Can anyone remember when they send the green check mark?

 

Thanks everyone for your help and input! 😊

[Fouremco]

38 minutes ago, Chinook Wind said:

Leaving Wednesday for QC>Boston.  Just filled out the ArriveCan form using Quebec as my "point of arrival".  Received the "confirmation receipt" with the QR code in no time flat but there was no green check mark.  Can't remember when we get that...

Can anyone remember when they send the green check mark?

 

Thanks everyone for your help and input! 😊

Do let us know whether or not anyone actually asks to see the receipt when you check in at the port.

[turnin50]

5 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Do let us know whether or not anyone actually asks to see the receipt when you check in at the port.

Yes we definitely need to hear from Canadians leaving on a cruise from Canada and not returning to Canada whether they were required to fill out the app hopefully before our cruise Sept 23