Just got back from Allure of the Seas cruise. Has food fallen off on all post-Covid?

[Jimbo]

47 minutes ago, sjb317 said:

Food is not that important to me to stop cruising, I love being out in the ocean and really missed it during the shutdown.  Our next cruises are on Celebrity and Viking, we are not sailing on Royal until a B2B on Jewel in December, maybe there will be some improvement?😂😂

 

Sherri🙂

That's part of the "Wow" factor in cruising though. Can get the Ocean feel at any land based island vacation. I liked it better when you used to cruise and get the whole experience. Don't like now where we might have to concede certain things that are lacking now. Just doesn't make cruising as attractive  as it used to be without getting the whole package. 😞

[Jerseygirl1416]

10 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

That's part of the "Wow" factor in cruising though. Can get the Ocean feel at any land based island vacation. I liked it better when you used to cruise and get the whole experience. Don't like now where we might have to concede certain things that are lacking now. Just doesn't make cruising as attractive  as it used to be without getting the whole package. 😞

Then cruise a luxury line and not a mass market line.

[island lady]

19 minutes ago, Jerseygirl1416 said:

Then cruise a luxury line and not a mass market line.

 

Or actually not be cruising at all...  😉 

[bucfan2]

2 hours ago, ChC said:

 

I think it is an issue about 'talent'. Kitchen staff 

That's an interesting perspective; however, IMO, highly doubted.

[bucfan2]

36 minutes ago, ChC said:

 

You can doubt anything. It is not my job to convince you.

 

IMO, I highly doubt there is an issue w/ 'Kitchen talent'.  Problem w/ quantity of kitchen talent (due to shortage of staff)?  Certainly a possibility.  Overall problem w/ kitchen talent?  Highly doubted.

 

You stated "The reality is if the food quality is down, most likely the people cooking the food have changed".  That's certainly one possible contributor.  We all could speculate and add an infinite number of additional 'possible' contributors.

 

(Once again, my opinion.  And don't apply the job to convince me about anything...you wouldn't be a good fit).

Edited September 14, 2022 by bucfan2

[Itchy&Scratchy]

Harmony's buffet during our Thanksgiving 2021 cruise was outstanding. OUTSTANDING.

So, when we experienced Allure buffet in June 2022, we were very disappointed. Nowhere near the same variety and quality.

 

MDR dinner food was about the same on both cruises - we really enjoyed all of our dinners. The menu was the same with the exception of TG dinner. The menu was also identical to our 2019 Allure cruise.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Itchy&Scratchy

[Nunagoras]

5 hours ago, ChC said:

 

I think this is very true. I think it is an issue about 'talent'. Kitchen staff work in the kitchen all the time, don't really have a lot of free time or get outside often. Most kitchen staff developed their skills and leave cruise industry, get a better paid job in landside resorts or opening their own restaurants (more relaxed and better pay sometimes). Cruise lines also had to compete with cities like Dubai, Doha and now Saudi Arabia for experienced junior chefs. What is worse, as there are more and bigger ships, the recruitment for chefs/kitchen staff are running full steam. Experienced chef gets better opportunities or better pay in new or expanded luxury liners, or gets to work in speciality restaurants. It is just the reality. It is actually a very tough job for cruise lines to retain or recruit good chefs who can produce consistent quality. 

This exactly in addition to the supply chain problems all of us know. And sometimes worse. People discovered during the pandemic they may have a living out of something "softer" as workflow goes than those hard positions on the tourism industry, while earning the same or even more than on the "hard" positions. I know some former airline pilots whom quit piloting planes in favor or running inter cities trains because that way they can go home after work and enjoy their little kids playing with them. As a Portuguese celebrity chef has said the other day on the TV: "We're reaping what we have sowed years before the pandemic". Now; people will only come if they're valued, especially on the medium to the highest specialized ones, and even to hire lower end employees is becoming difficult cause of the travel requirements and the likes. Interesting times are coming.

[sjb317]

4 hours ago, Jimbo said:

That's part of the "Wow" factor in cruising though. Can get the Ocean feel at any land based island vacation. I liked it better when you used to cruise and get the whole experience. Don't like now where we might have to concede certain things that are lacking now. Just doesn't make cruising as attractive  as it used to be without getting the whole package. 😞

Actually, we live on the beach, my husband said it is like being on a cruise only without the movement😂.  While I agree cruising is not the experience it used to be, I still like cruising!  And  I’ve discovered we really like Celebrity, too and we are giving river cruising in Europe a try in October, good to mix things up!

 

Sherri🙂

[Jimbo]

2 hours ago, ChC said:

 

You can doubt anything. It is not my job to convince you.

 

But I will provide some numbers for you:

about 16% of all hospitality industry employee are chefs or cookers.  [SOURCE]

 

In Dubai alone, the total hospitality workers are 400,000 and growing. That translate to a minimum 64,000 chefs and growing.

 

In Saudi Arabia, it is building hotels and restaurants at least the similar capacity of what Dubai has now, if not bigger, these mega projects are in Red Sea, Jeddah and Gulf region including Riyadh. Should all projects are complete, we are talking about 75,000-100,000 qualified chefs required in the coming decades.

 

Not only that, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia are also expanding its resorts and hotels. Every new hotel and every new cruise ship requires new head chef, experienced executive chefs. In cruise industry, the growth of MSC, Viking and Virgin, all require experienced chef from somewhere.

 

Mid-level chefs are unfortunately very difficult to recruit and retain. We as customers may be very loyal to RCL, but not the mid-level chefs who have ambitions or wants more money or simply a more permanent place to work rather than the ship. They are mostly recruited through agencies, which means if they have better offers, they leave. Chefs are more skilled compared to waiters/housekeepers. The demand for good chefs is there.

 

The reality is here, the math is here. You can believe in anything you believe. The reality is if the food quality is down, most likely the people cooking the food have changed. 

Some members on here can't handle reality, your post was well said and very factual.

[Nunagoras]

10 minutes ago, sjb317 said:

Actually, we live on the beach, my husband said it is like being on a cruise only without the movement😂.  While I agree cruising is not the experience it used to be, I still like cruising!  And  I’ve discovered we really like Celebrity, too and we are giving river cruising in Europe a try in October, good to mix things up!

 

Sherri🙂

Well: Actually the market has diversified itself. There are now options for pretty much every budget and age or any other social criteria one may think about. Different cruise lines cater for different things. I started my cruising "career" on another line back in 2006 when that trend had just started. Then pretty much all ships would qualify as a true European 5* land hotel. Not anymore. Contemporary, mainstream or megaship like cruise lines had decreased their hotel standards to European 4* hotel standards. Even some of the so called premium lines went down to the European 4*+ hotel standards. Want a higher experience? That is there, but you'd pay for it: Seabourne, Regent, Silversea, soon to be Explora... Those will give you true 5* hotel experience. As I say market has diversified, but even the lower end lines have gone for the better more than not. Ships are now larger, better built, more attractive, ect. One would just need to watch what product satisfies his or her needs.

[bucfan2]

30 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Some members on here can't handle reality, your post was well said and very factual.

OK...I'll call it out.  Reality from the 8 cruises since the restart, or your reality/facts from the recliner?  I stated my opinion from recent cruises...that opinion is based on our factual experience. 

 

Anyone w/ something positive to say is accused of being a cheerleader....are you continuing to cheer for failure?  You've claimed 'no' when asked before...got me wondering.  

Edited September 14, 2022 by bucfan2

[Jimbo]

7 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

OK...I'll call it out.  Reality from the 8 cruises since the restart, or your reality/facts from the recliner?  I stated my opinion from recent cruises...that opinion is based on our factual experience.  C'mon dude - take a break from cc if ya just want to slam w/o experience.

Just reading from the  comments on this thread and other threads on this cruise forum, others haven't been as lucky as you have been on your 8 cruises I guess. I'm not trying to slam anyone, I rather  read from everyone that has been on a cruise that everything is great and back to normal as it was years ago. But it isn't right now that way for everyone.

 

If you are still having a good time and like the product the way it currently is, by all means continue to cruise  all you want.

 

You have an opinion like everyone else has one, all opinions don't have to be the same, that is why they call them opinions. It's okay to have different opinions on a subject. Just because someone has a different opinion, you don't have to call it slamming.

 

I really am happy you had 8 great cruises that you are extremely happy with. When we cruise again I hope we have the great experience you have had. Many others in this cruise forum hope for the same.

[bucfan2]

10 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Just reading from the  comments on this thread and other threads on this cruise forum, others haven't been as lucky as you have been on your 8 cruises I guess.  Just because someone has a different opinion, you don't have to call it slamming.

Not much is 'great' all the time (and hasn't been for us either)....and that includes cruising.  I took your 'some people can't handle reality' comment as directed at positive responses/experiences (beings how it was in the middle of the discussion).

 

If it wasn't directed at me, I apologize.  If it was, you were slamming.

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by bucfan2

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, sjb317 said:

Actually, we live on the beach, my husband said it is like being on a cruise only without the movement😂.  While I agree cruising is not the experience it used to be, I still like cruising!  And  I’ve discovered we really like Celebrity, too and we are giving river cruising in Europe a try in October, good to mix things up!

 

Sherri🙂

Our past few cruises have all been on Celebrity. We really love the atmosphere of their product. We are Sailing Allure next month just because we both wanted to try an Oasis class cruise. We will probably end up back on Celebrity ships after this one again. 

[sjb317]

44 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Our past few cruises have all been on Celebrity. We really love the atmosphere of their product. We are Sailing Allure next month just because we both wanted to try an Oasis class cruise. We will probably end up back on Celebrity ships after this one again. 

Have you been on any of the Edge class ships?  We cruised on Apex in February and that was the most gorgeous ship I’ve ever been on!

 

Sherri🙂

[Cruising89143]

We took our first cruise in nine years on RCI in March. Since then we have completed five more on RCI. We think the specialty dining has improved as has the WJ. We have only tried the MDR once for breakfast and lunch. It was no better or worse than we remembered on our last cruise in 2013. We’re just not MDR people for different reasons. We still have three more cruises next month on RCI including the Freedom and Symphony. It will give us a chance to see how consistent things are on different class ships. 
 

With regards to Celebrity, we haven’t been back on since their restart but will be in December on the Solstice. While we think the overall level of service and MDR food is better on X, we found that RCI’s specialty dining was better this time. Hopefully that changes in December. 
 

I look at MDR dining as mass produced buffet/banquet quality food served to you by a wait staff. My expectations are not high. When you’re preparing food for 4-5000 guests to turn around in a few hours it’s not going to be gourmet quality. So far we have been happy with the RCI product which has given us another option to use. 
 

 

[Jimbo]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Our past few cruises have all been on Celebrity. We really love the atmosphere of their product. We are Sailing Allure next month just because we both wanted to try an Oasis class cruise. We will probably end up back on Celebrity ships after this one again. 

Please report back after Allure next month, I for one would be interested how you compare both products currently. Some members on here are not as open minded though because they are Loyal To Royal no matter what.

[whyrlygig]

We have always found the food in the dining room uninspiring.  The past several cruises we used it for breakfast only.  The food jammer we have given up on altogether.  We don't cruise for the food but I wish we didn't have to spring for the specialty dining to get a decent meal.  

[Nunagoras]

16 hours ago, ChC said:

 

Yes, I fully agree with what you have said. The inconvenient truth is that cruise lines, giant theme parks, labour import countries/cities that is developing tourism, high end resorts and even casinos are all competing to recruit chefs/cookers/kitchen talents from the same pool of the talent. The most amazing operation inside cruise ship is the kitchen and its many qualified chefs and helpers. The 2 years stop in cruising industry really brought the problem of recruiting new talents while new destinations and new companies provided new opportunities for some seasoned staff. We are at the unfortunate time that cruise line may not be ready to train enough new recruit to be competent in the department while lost a lot of seasoned staff to other segments of the hospitality operators. I believe things will get better eventually, maybe end of 2023 or beginning of 2024. From the forum/review feedback, dining room food quality problem is universal, not confined to a single line (although some lines have less negative feedback and within the same line some ships seem to be better than others). Next time when I am meeting any officers, I may float the question and get more insights if I can.

Surely! One thing that many (most?) forget is that there is no that thing named infinite resources. As you said; there is a plethora of venues competing within the same talent pool, and I'd say a diminishing talent pool. Let's see from where I live: Top Portuguese celebrity chefs are now closing some of their average "mainstream" projects in town, remaining only with their top ones, in favor of opening some top venues in Dubai, Doha, etc. If those KSA projects are set to succeed in a very few years that will eventually to "kill" basically all the 4* level industry hotel level here in Europe, and perhaps even in the US or elsewhere; including the mainstream cruise industry. Why? It is worth to notice that apart the executive chefs and some of their more direct cooperators, pretty much all those kitchen "helpers" earn very low salaries, if any. Before the pandemic it was usual to see tons of young guys and girls hardworking, sometimes with no actual salary for the sake of training opportunities with those celebrity chefs, and then they'd eventually progress to have their smaller projects or working at relatively lower cost on 4* European tourism industry. On top of that; pretty much every Masterchef TV show contestant would appear as well known chef in a few time frame, obviously creating a surplus of "top chefs". All those aforementioned are the ones whom: Are quitting the hospitality industry altogether because they have better ways to enjoy a happy living with less sacrifice; or are flying Dubai, Doha or KSA in search of a new opportunity for their careers. Either way the 4* industry level will need to adapt themselves on living with less talent available. No surprise the best hotel restaurant near where I live (Holly Mother of Fátima Shrine neighborhoods) is now living out of a very reduced menu from what it used to be. No more those 20+ choices a day. Now it is pretty much an executive menu with some 4-5 main options with one daily change. They don't have personnel for more than that.

 

In conclusion: While I want to be the most optimistic possible; I seriously believe that the mainstream cruise line industry will be far from the before the pandemic days by 2024... Maybe; they can go there by 2026-8, but only by the way of locking in some ways their new trainees for a set number of cruise contracts: Say, 5 years? And even then it will be difficult for sure to have. Reduced menus will be the new normal. MSC is doing it. As far as I understand NCL will follow suit. RCI will eventually be the next with Carnival going the same way. Sad... But as I say: There are no infinite talents on our disposal to fill the ships kitchens...

[bajathree]

Was on Allure last Dec and food was terrible. Have been on several sailings post COVID....first one was on Celebrity Edge....food was very good.....even when compared to pre-covid on Royal, Celebrity did/does a much better job with food. Was on Odyssey last year and food was good....then Allure a few months later and could really see the difference.....decline with the food.

[Nunagoras]

6 hours ago, ChC said:

 

I agree with every point you have made. And I really liked the angle of MasterChef. The program had been going global, MasterChef program is everywhere. 

 

I really hope the struggle for recruiting good chefs does not last as long as you believed. But I can totally see it happening. MSC reducing menu is interesting too. I did wonder about it in my last MSC cruises in March and June. Thank you again for the wonderful input on this issue. Really appreciated with your knowledge and logical explanation. It is a pity not many people understand how big this issue is and the complex background of the struggle in recruiting talent in the kitchen. It has been a pleasure to discuss with you. 

You're welcome! I used to work as an archivist with a market analysts team where many (perhaps most?) of the investment plans we were set to give our financial analysis on were tourism or hospitality related here; and I'm trained on human resources management myself as well. I'm relatively aware of what the "state of the art" on the industry currently is about once I only retired during the pandemic, and I still read some specialty press on the field. Surely all of us would like to see things improving faster than what it is... But; to restart an industry is not like to press a smartphone's button. Even if mainstream cruise lines start today a program to recruit a new pool of specialized kitchen trainees with a 5 years contract block so that they may be relatively safe on their offering strategy and find a way forward to put things in cross speed; one would expect at least such a one and a half years for the first ones to enter service, hoping that nobody of the current ones leave the teams... Considering that there's also a limit to the number of new trainees to enter the program, one would expect that we'll need some 4 to 6 years to have all the ones on office, hence my 2026-28 for all of this ordeal to be solved.

 

MSC's reduced menus? Yes; they are. From the photos I'm watching here in CC they've done a huge "cleaning" on their menus, sadly. Not pretending to be out of topic, MSC has been my favorite cruise line to date, so I'm very knowledgeable of what their product is about. I'm not surprised knowing what is going especially on the 4* European land hotel industry. The 5* one is sort of escaping for now... Living on reduced menus seems to be the new normal for the mainstream industry... MSC will continue with this reduced menu for years. On the NCL boards I read that at least in some ships they're going the same way with a reduced "static" menu on their MDR's... Sooner rather than later all the others will follow suit, including RCI, because I can't see any alternative. No personnel to more variety at this market level, sadly...

[LATTELOVE]

Agreed.

As much money we are paying to cruise

on Royal Caribbean specially on holiday cruises, 

something has to change. We have noticed the same

on the past 2 previous cruises. The selection and quality of

the food has gone down.

We were following one of the blogs for NCL Bliss, a few weeks ago.

It opened up our eyes as far as the food goes.  The quality, variety

and presentation of the food on Bliss were superb.  

It's time for Royal Caribbean to stop going on the cheap

and do a remake of their menus. It can be done.

Other cruise lines are doing it and so can they.

 

 

[easyqueasy]

53 minutes ago, LATTELOVE said:

Agreed.

As much money we are paying to cruise

on Royal Caribbean specially on holiday cruises, 

something has to change. We have noticed the same

on the past 2 previous cruises. The selection and quality of

the food has gone down.

We were following one of the blogs for NCL Bliss, a few weeks ago.

It opened up our eyes as far as the food goes.  The quality, variety

and presentation of the food on Bliss were superb.  

It's time for Royal Caribbean to stop going on the cheap

and do a remake of their menus. It can be done.

Other cruise lines are doing it and so can they.

 

 

Probably easier for you to jump ship (not being snarky).  We just got off the Allure and the food was fine for us. We thoroughly enjoyed it. Our head waiter said Royal has $28M of food waste per year so I can see why they’re limiting choices.

[LATTELOVE]

1 minute ago, easyqueasy said:

Probably easier for you to jump ship (not being snarky).  We just got off the Allure and the food was fine for us. We thoroughly enjoyed it. Our head waiter said Royal has $28M of food waste per year so I can see why they’re limiting choices.

Not for us that travel frequently.

Change is good.  🙂

[Jimbo]

1 hour ago, LATTELOVE said:

Agreed.

As much money we are paying to cruise

on Royal Caribbean specially on holiday cruises, 

something has to change. We have noticed the same

on the past 2 previous cruises. The selection and quality of

the food has gone down.

We were following one of the blogs for NCL Bliss, a few weeks ago.

It opened up our eyes as far as the food goes.  The quality, variety

and presentation of the food on Bliss were superb.  

It's time for Royal Caribbean to stop going on the cheap

and do a remake of their menus. It can be done.

Other cruise lines are doing it and so can they.

 

 

Do you mind sharing the link to that NCL Bliss blog, I think I and others might be interested to see what NCL is  offering. Might open a few eyes.😲

Edited September 18, 2022 by Jimbo