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VitaminSea53
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My family (14 of us) were on Oasis of the Seas over Thanksgiving.  On the second day of the cruise my husband was exhibiting Covid symptoms.  We took home tests with us and he tested positive.  I called medical and told them he had covid and asked someone to come to our cabin as he was really sick in bed.  They told me he had to come down to Medical and Medical closed at 7:30 pm.  We made the decision not to go.  For the remainder of the cruise we did not receive a call or inquiry as to how he was doing.  He was really sick for 3 days before he started feeling better.  He isolated in our room.  I had packed some cough and cold meds so we managed.  If you have Covid while on a Royal cruise and I presume Celebrity (as they are under the same umbrella) they do not want to know.

24 minutes ago, VitaminSea53 said:

I have not heard much about COVID on ships lately.  I am sure it must still be there but do they still quarantine passengers in cabins without access to fresh air?  Can anyone on recent cruises relate their experience regarding COVID.  Thanks  

 

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1 hour ago, wwjd1947 said:

My family (14 of us) were on Oasis of the Seas over Thanksgiving.  On the second day of the cruise my husband was exhibiting Covid symptoms.  We took home tests with us and he tested positive.  I called medical and told them he had covid and asked someone to come to our cabin as he was really sick in bed.  They told me he had to come down to Medical and Medical closed at 7:30 pm.  We made the decision not to go.  For the remainder of the cruise we did not receive a call or inquiry as to how he was doing.  He was really sick for 3 days before he started feeling better.  He isolated in our room.  I had packed some cough and cold meds so we managed.  If you have Covid while on a Royal cruise and I presume Celebrity (as they are under the same umbrella) they do not want to know.

 

Really not much they can do, just like at home, stay in bed, rest, take what we can to minimize symptoms etc.  Your husband did the right thing by self isolating and was probably the same Celebrity would have advised as well.  

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We are just off the Equinox this morning.  We tested positive on day 8 of an 11 night cruise. We reported to medical and were put on isolation for the rest of the cruise (otherwise it would have been 5 days and a negative test in isolation).  We were required to stay in our cabin and were assigned a quarantine concierge, who was very helpful. We could order meals from room service, Luminae (we were in a suite) or the MDR and could also order drinks using our beverage package once we felt up to it. We had a daily call from medical to check on our symptoms and see if we needed any additional meds. This morning we were escorted off the ship away from other people, which I appreciated. We have holed up in a hotel for one additional night so that we do not fly home outside of CDC guidelines.

 

As I know some are curious—we are fully vaccinated and boosted.  We got the bivalent vax 30 days before our cruise, hoping for maximum efficacy during our cruise. I had COVID once before, in July 2022.  DH had not had it before. Our symptoms were at the level of a moderate cold and lasted about 36 hours.  We have no idea where/when on the ship we got it, but since it’s everywhere, we were not particularly surprised.

 

We will be receiving a refund for the days we were in isolation.  We are covering the cost of our extra hotel night and changing our flight home. I will submit a claim to our travel insurance and see what happens.  
 

We came close to canceling this cruise before final payment because of COVID fears and knew there was a risk this would happen. It was not as bad being in isolation as I had envisioned, and we did get 7 full days before we got sick, so it definitely could have been worse,

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aidanht, sorry that you got Covid.  You did all the right things before the cruise.  I wonder, did you wear a mask in the airport. plane, and public places on the ship?  We have late January cruise planned and like you we are fully vaccinated and boosted.  We plan to wear a mask most everywhere.  We know the risks though even with the best precautions.

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14 hours ago, wwjd1947 said:

My family (14 of us) were on Oasis of the Seas over Thanksgiving.  On the second day of the cruise my husband was exhibiting Covid symptoms.  We took home tests with us and he tested positive.  I called medical and told them he had covid and asked someone to come to our cabin as he was really sick in bed.  They told me he had to come down to Medical and Medical closed at 7:30 pm.  We made the decision not to go.  For the remainder of the cruise we did not receive a call or inquiry as to how he was doing.  He was really sick for 3 days before he started feeling better.  He isolated in our room.  I had packed some cough and cold meds so we managed.  If you have Covid while on a Royal cruise and I presume Celebrity (as they are under the same umbrella) they do not want to know.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you - the ship does not want to know.  Self-reporting now is essentially the only way to incur any "covid jail" penalties.  I applaud your decision for your husband to self-treat, distance, mask.  COVID IS EVERYWHERE on land, so it follows that it is everywhere in the air and on the  sea.  And guess what, IT IS NEVER GOING AWAY.  If people have a problem with that, then they need to never leave their houses for any reason whatsoever. 

As far as Celebrity's current cruise testing policy, Australian/NZ cruises require covid tests to board, but they are not required to be monitored - you do a self-test in the privacy of your home/hotel and show a photo of the negative test strip at check-in; and in fact, several folks reported on the recent Eclipse cruises down under, that they only had to SAY that they'd taken a test and it was negative, no proof whatsoever required.  And currently, at least on the Eclipse, B2B cruisers are not required to test for their follow-up cruises - no B2B testing is occurring at all.  This is all excellent news, as MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, the cruise industry is beginning to catch up with the rest of the entire travel industry - no tests needed to fly, no tests needed for land tours, hotels, etc.  

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2 hours ago, aidanht said:

We are just off the Equinox this morning.  We tested positive on day 8 of an 11 night cruise. We reported to medical and were put on isolation for the rest of the cruise (otherwise it would have been 5 days and a negative test in isolation).  We were required to stay in our cabin and were assigned a quarantine concierge, who was very helpful. We could order meals from room service, Luminae (we were in a suite) or the MDR and could also order drinks using our beverage package once we felt up to it. We had a daily call from medical to check on our symptoms and see if we needed any additional meds. This morning we were escorted off the ship away from other people, which I appreciated. We have holed up in a hotel for one additional night so that we do not fly home outside of CDC guidelines.

 

As I know some are curious—we are fully vaccinated and boosted.  We got the bivalent vax 30 days before our cruise, hoping for maximum efficacy during our cruise. I had COVID once before, in July 2022.  DH had not had it before. Our symptoms were at the level of a moderate cold and lasted about 36 hours.  We have no idea where/when on the ship we got it, but since it’s everywhere, we were not particularly surprised.

 

We will be receiving a refund for the days we were in isolation.  We are covering the cost of our extra hotel night and changing our flight home. I will submit a claim to our travel insurance and see what happens.  
 

We came close to canceling this cruise before final payment because of COVID fears and knew there was a risk this would happen. It was not as bad being in isolation as I had envisioned, and we did get 7 full days before we got sick, so it definitely could have been worse,

 

2 hours ago, twentyknots said:

aidanht, sorry that you got Covid.  You did all the right things before the cruise.  I wonder, did you wear a mask in the airport. plane, and public places on the ship?  We have late January cruise planned and like you we are fully vaccinated and boosted.  We plan to wear a mask most everywhere.  We know the risks though even with the best precautions.

 

 

@aidanht- It' s good to know the crew on the Equinox treated you well  as there seem to be big differences between ships. And glad to hear you weren't too sick.

I also wondered if you wore masks.We'll be on the Equinox (hopefully) for 35 days this winter and hope our vaccines and masks will allow us to complete our cruises. 

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We did not wear masks while traveling or on the ship.  We discussed it at length and decided we would mask up if there was coughing, etc, around us but there was surprisingly little.  Virtually no one was masked in the airport, on the plane, or on the ship.  

 

We did leave the ship on day 5 and day 6, both on ship excursions. Both involved short bus rides and were otherwise outdoors. 
 

I have learned today that my coworkers tested positive over the weekend, so I likely would’ve gotten it had I stayed home.  At least I was in isolation with a nice view, I suppose.

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2 hours ago, lexmiller said:

I agree wholeheartedly with you - the ship does not want to know.  Self-reporting now is essentially the only way to incur any "covid jail" penalties.  I applaud your decision for your husband to self-treat, distance, mask.  COVID IS EVERYWHERE on land, so it follows that it is everywhere in the air and on the  sea.  And guess what, IT IS NEVER GOING AWAY.  If people have a problem with that, then they need to never leave their houses for any reason whatsoever. 

As far as Celebrity's current cruise testing policy, Australian/NZ cruises require covid tests to board, but they are not required to be monitored - you do a self-test in the privacy of your home/hotel and show a photo of the negative test strip at check-in; and in fact, several folks reported on the recent Eclipse cruises down under, that they only had to SAY that they'd taken a test and it was negative, no proof whatsoever required.  And currently, at least on the Eclipse, B2B cruisers are not required to test for their follow-up cruises - no B2B testing is occurring at all.  This is all excellent news, as MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, the cruise industry is beginning to catch up with the rest of the entire travel industry - no tests needed to fly, no tests needed for land tours, hotels, etc.  

Very interesting that there is no B2B testing on the Eclipse in Australia/NZ ports.  I called the Captain's Club to see if we needed to provide proof of a negative RAT between our B13B south pacific cruises in 2023, and were told that Celebrity will be testing all B2B cruisers.  I wonder if that's what they are telling the local authorities, just to ensure "compliance"?

 

Oh well, we'll see where it goes.  Our big fear is getting disembarked or refused re-boarding due to being Covid-19 positive, as it's quite likely we'll get it at some point in 140 nights onboard.

 

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16 minutes ago, coldcdn said:

Very interesting that there is no B2B testing on the Eclipse in Australia/NZ ports.  I called the Captain's Club to see if we needed to provide proof of a negative RAT between our B13B south pacific cruises in 2023, and were told that Celebrity will be testing all B2B cruisers.  I wonder if that's what they are telling the local authorities, just to ensure "compliance"?

 

Oh well, we'll see where it goes.  Our big fear is getting disembarked or refused re-boarding due to being Covid-19 positive, as it's quite likely we'll get it at some point in 140 nights onboard.

 

This is my understanding from reading the current roll calls - but I welcome any updated information, as with the rise in cases in Australia, the Eclipse and the few other ships that are sailing in those waters have experienced a commensurate rise in cases.  Testing requirements can change on the drop of a dime.  You saw the totally false news report just a few days ago, the link has been mentioned several times in the Eclipse roll calls, that the Eclipse was docking in Sydney on Dec 9 with 1500 covid positive passengers - truth was approx 100 but journalists blew it horribly out of proportion.  

Our big fear is the same as yours - traveling half way across the world, only to get caught in a covid mandatory monitored testing dragnet, when all we have is a cold or no symptoms at all, and just like that, holiday up in smoke.  A land tour looks far superior if mandatory monitored testing occurs - we are looking hard at cancelling our Eclipse spring cruises before final payment is due.

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3 hours ago, jwlane said:

Had you remained exclusively on the ship all the days before you got sick?

 

I know people are curious, but frankly, what does it matter?  You can get Covid (especially Omicron) anywhere anytime, with minimum exposure, wearing a mask (or not), in a crowd (or not).  It is impossible to determine where you were exposed, you can only theorize.

 

 There is an inherent risk in catching covid on a cruise, in travel, at work, the mall, when out to dinner, etc.  It is a fact of life - you can accept it or choose to live in a cave.  I have all my shots but I know I can still get it.  I try to live life as normally as possible.  

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1 hour ago, coldcdn said:

Very interesting that there is no B2B testing on the Eclipse in Australia/NZ ports.  I called the Captain's Club to see if we needed to provide proof of a negative RAT between our B13B south pacific cruises in 2023, and were told that Celebrity will be testing all B2B cruisers.  I wonder if that's what they are telling the local authorities, just to ensure "compliance"?

 

Oh well, we'll see where it goes.  Our big fear is getting disembarked or refused re-boarding due to being Covid-19 positive, as it's quite likely we'll get it at some point in 140 nights onboard.

 

I have updated news, from the CURRENT Eclipse cruise, which started Dec 9th.  ALL B2Bers, who were on the prior cruise who remained on board for the Dec 9th voyage, were tested by the crew - monitored testing.  One of the passengers told me (this is from a roll call on another social site, a very active roll call) that he believes that the B2B testing had to occur because of Australian authorities, that these are the current rules - and also possibly, is based upon the number of cases currently on board.  Eclipse is currently a Tier 2 vessel.  I just asked on their roll call, about an hour ago, and 5 passengers so far have replied saying that yes, for their cruise, all B2Bers were tested - one of the passengers who replied, was asymptomatic, feels great, but tested positive.  He is isolated in his cabin, his wife was moved to a different veranda cabin and has to test every morning.  She is testing negative, but every morning she must retest and is not allowed to leave her cabin until she is negative.  Wow.  

And you are looking at 140 nights on board.......if B2B testing is still occurring, ouch, very likely indeed that you'll get it.....we are looking hard at cancelling......

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34 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

People are still taking tests for covid? 
 

I have taken two..both to board a ship..glad that nonsense is over. 

Oh yes, absolutely!  It depends upon the itinerary!  The Australia/NZ itineraries now have to test to board - and currently, as I just posted as an up to the minute update, B2Bers on these itineraries must have a supervised test.  Eclipse is the only Celebrity ship down under.  And I can't speak to any other itineraries, but Aussie/NZ cruises are definitely still stuck in "that nonsense" - and I do agree with your description!

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We had to self-test in Rome(Civi) and then two days before our second cruise on Apex. We both got covid on the TA.  I had no symptoms; my husband took Plaxlovid, but had an awful reaction to it, stopping on day 3.  We quarantined in our cabin and were treated very well.  Both of us tested ourselves.  My husband first because of a few symptoms; me because he tested positive.  Celebrity was absolutely wonderful during quarantine.  We were totally vaxed and boosted, wearing masks on the first cruise, but let our guard down on a 6 person Celebrity excursion...bingo!  My husband got rebound Covid after we arrived home.  It was Covid Pneumonia and he spent five days in the hospital.  He is rarely ill.  By the way, his care in the hospital was excellent.  As of writing this, he is doing awesome.  Rebound Covid came on very fast with a high fever and extremely low blood pressure.  

The best way to tell if people are Covid positive on a ship is to look and see if there are room service items throughout the day outside any doors.  Most likely, these individuals tested themselves.  The rest either have no idea they have it, think they might or are spreading it, along with those who don't have it at all.  As for Covid being a topic of conversation onboard...not at all and you can stay in your own cabin/suite.  It is what it is! 

 

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18 minutes ago, Lastdance said:

We had to self-test in Rome(Civi) and then two days before our second cruise on Apex. We both got covid on the TA.  I had no symptoms; my husband took Plaxlovid, but had an awful reaction to it, stopping on day 3.  We quarantined in our cabin and were treated very well.  Both of us tested ourselves.  My husband first because of a few symptoms; me because he tested positive.  Celebrity was absolutely wonderful during quarantine.  We were totally vaxed and boosted, wearing masks on the first cruise, but let our guard down on a 6 person Celebrity excursion...bingo!  My husband got rebound Covid after we arrived home.  It was Covid Pneumonia and he spent five days in the hospital.  He is rarely ill.  By the way, his care in the hospital was excellent.  As of writing this, he is doing awesome.  Rebound Covid came on very fast with a high fever and extremely low blood pressure.  

The best way to tell if people are Covid positive on a ship is to look and see if there are room service items throughout the day outside any doors.  Most likely, these individuals tested themselves.  The rest either have no idea they have it, think they might or are spreading it, along with those who don't have it at all.  As for Covid being a topic of conversation onboard...not at all and you can stay in your own cabin/suite.  It is what it is! 

 

Sorry to hear all of this about getting so sick, but glad for the recovery!  I was just recently on Edge TA from Rome, while I never heard of anyone getting Covid, on the second to last day before arriving in FL, the captain did announce that during the entire duration of the cruise "only" 5 passengers had tested positive.  I did notice that after maybe day 4 or 5, the suite next door to mine suddenly I started noticing food trays placed/left on the floor outside the cabin and I had seen them go in/out a few times before noticing this.  Normally I'd of thought just rude, but honestly I did wonder if maybe the people in that suite had tested positive and this was well before the captains announcement the day before disembarking. 

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4 hours ago, lexmiller said:

I have updated news, from the CURRENT Eclipse cruise, which started Dec 9th.  ALL B2Bers, who were on the prior cruise who remained on board for the Dec 9th voyage, were tested by the crew - monitored testing.  One of the passengers told me (this is from a roll call on another social site, a very active roll call) that he believes that the B2B testing had to occur because of Australian authorities, that these are the current rules - and also possibly, is based upon the number of cases currently on board.  Eclipse is currently a Tier 2 vessel.  I just asked on their roll call, about an hour ago, and 5 passengers so far have replied saying that yes, for their cruise, all B2Bers were tested - one of the passengers who replied, was asymptomatic, feels great, but tested positive.  He is isolated in his cabin, his wife was moved to a different veranda cabin and has to test every morning.  She is testing negative, but every morning she must retest and is not allowed to leave her cabin until she is negative.  Wow.  

And you are looking at 140 nights on board.......if B2B testing is still occurring, ouch, very likely indeed that you'll get it.....we are looking hard at cancelling......

 

Thanks for this updated information!  Even more interesting, as well as somewhat scary.

 

We have made our final payments for the January 2, 2023 to mid-March cruises already, but may consider the remainder (but doubt it).  Fortunately we have good, independent trip cancellation/interruption insurance that covers Covid-19.  We also have out-of-country medical that covers Covid-19, so hopefully it'll all work out!  While isolation onboard would suck, it's the potential denial of re-boarding that would be the toughest to deal with. 

 

I'd be very grateful if you could post a question in the other active board, to see if anyone on a B2B that has tested positive has been denied boarding in Australia or NZ.

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14 hours ago, aidanht said:

We are just off the Equinox this morning.  We tested positive on day 8 of an 11 night cruise. We reported to medical and were put on isolation for the rest of the cruise (otherwise it would have been 5 days and a negative test in isolation).  We were required to stay in our cabin and were assigned a quarantine concierge, who was very helpful. We could order meals from room service, Luminae (we were in a suite) or the MDR and could also order drinks using our beverage package once we felt up to it. We had a daily call from medical to check on our symptoms and see if we needed any additional meds. This morning we were escorted off the ship away from other people, which I appreciated. We have holed up in a hotel for one additional night so that we do not fly home outside of CDC guidelines.

 

As I know some are curious—we are fully vaccinated and boosted.  We got the bivalent vax 30 days before our cruise, hoping for maximum efficacy during our cruise. I had COVID once before, in July 2022.  DH had not had it before. Our symptoms were at the level of a moderate cold and lasted about 36 hours.  We have no idea where/when on the ship we got it, but since it’s everywhere, we were not particularly surprised.

 

We will be receiving a refund for the days we were in isolation.  We are covering the cost of our extra hotel night and changing our flight home. I will submit a claim to our travel insurance and see what happens.  
 

We came close to canceling this cruise before final payment because of COVID fears and knew there was a risk this would happen. It was not as bad being in isolation as I had envisioned, and we did get 7 full days before we got sick, so it definitely could have been worse,

This enforced isolation is why a lot of people wont cruise to this day...I think we are passed isolating you to your rooms......

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1 hour ago, spielerin said:

Also exited Equinox this morning after testing positive on 8th. My insurance won’t cover because the isolation letter is not from a medical professional.

 

This should be a wake up call...Demand if the cruise lines makes you isolate or test you...That you want a letter signed by a DR or RNP.....if you test Postive!!

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On 12/12/2022 at 8:32 PM, coldcdn said:

 

Thanks for this updated information!  Even more interesting, as well as somewhat scary.

 

We have made our final payments for the January 2, 2023 to mid-March cruises already, but may consider the remainder (but doubt it).  Fortunately we have good, independent trip cancellation/interruption insurance that covers Covid-19.  We also have out-of-country medical that covers Covid-19, so hopefully it'll all work out!  While isolation onboard would suck, it's the potential denial of re-boarding that would be the toughest to deal with. 

 

I'd be very grateful if you could post a question in the other active board, to see if anyone on a B2B that has tested positive has been denied boarding in Australia or NZ.

Hi, @coldcdn- I wanted to get back to you, and to others following this topic.  I can state that for a fact, MONITORED MANDATORY B2B testing is occurring on the Eclipse.  It has been reported that B2B passengers who test positive during the monitored mandatory B2B test, are not disembarked - they are allowed to remain on board but are forced to isolate in their cabins, not allowed to leave their cabins.  To board the Eclipse, only a home self-test is required - it's been reported that the test to board is basically a "box ticking", an attestation that you are negative - test is not required to be monitored.  Passengers take photos of their results on their phones, as that is a time stamp - but they are not necessarily required to show them.  However, it's a totally different story for B2B passengers on the Eclipse, as that is a monitored mandatory test administered by the crew. 

 

So, yes, for the larger topic of this thread, covid is still "a thing" on Celebrity - testing, forced isolation - definitely still happening.  HOWEVER, I don't know how widespread this is across the fleet, if B2B monitored testing is only happening on the Australian/New Zealand itineraries - because of their government regulations???  Would be interesting to hear from other B2B passengers who are cruising RIGHT NOW - not a month ago, but currently, as things change, ebb and flow, quickly - monitored B2B testing makes cruising a very risky business, and for sure, makes cruising in Australia/NZ very concerning as traveling halfway across the world to miss ports, is not something that sounds at all attractive.  

 

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/travel/cruising-rules

 

Currently, based upon the above Australian cruise danger level list, the Eclipse has no cases of covid onboard - the Dec 9 cruise ended on Dec 20.  I wonder if we can make the assumption then, that no one tested positive on the mandatory monitored B2B testing?  If so, then the only way the Tier level of Eclipse will increase is if passengers go on their own to Medical and self-report.  

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On 12/20/2022 at 10:30 AM, lexmiller said:

Hi, @coldcdn- I wanted to get back to you, and to others following this topic.  I can state that for a fact, MONITORED MANDATORY B2B testing is occurring on the Eclipse.  It has been reported that B2B passengers who test positive during the monitored mandatory B2B test, are not disembarked - they are allowed to remain on board but are forced to isolate in their cabins, not allowed to leave their cabins.  To board the Eclipse, only a home self-test is required - it's been reported that the test to board is basically a "box ticking", an attestation that you are negative - test is not required to be monitored.  Passengers take photos of their results on their phones, as that is a time stamp - but they are not necessarily required to show them.  However, it's a totally different story for B2B passengers on the Eclipse, as that is a monitored mandatory test administered by the crew. 

 

So, yes, for the larger topic of this thread, covid is still "a thing" on Celebrity - testing, forced isolation - definitely still happening.  HOWEVER, I don't know how widespread this is across the fleet, if B2B monitored testing is only happening on the Australian/New Zealand itineraries - because of their government regulations???  Would be interesting to hear from other B2B passengers who are cruising RIGHT NOW - not a month ago, but currently, as things change, ebb and flow, quickly - monitored B2B testing makes cruising a very risky business, and for sure, makes cruising in Australia/NZ very concerning as traveling halfway across the world to miss ports, is not something that sounds at all attractive.  

 

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/travel/cruising-rules

 

Currently, based upon the above Australian cruise danger level list, the Eclipse has no cases of covid onboard - the Dec 9 cruise ended on Dec 20.  I wonder if we can make the assumption then, that no one tested positive on the mandatory monitored B2B testing?  If so, then the only way the Tier level of Eclipse will increase is if passengers go on their own to Medical and self-report.  

Wanted to update what I'd written regarding the mandatory monitored B2B testing occurring on the Eclipse - indeed, several (I have no idea how many, but several have posted on the Dec 20 social roll call) B2B passengers tested positive for covid and are in forced isolation.  But good news is that the Eclipse is still not registering as any Tier level on the Australian cruise tiered danger list.  Passengers have reported that they were given the opportunity to disembark on Dec 20 and receive a FCC for the cruise, or to stay on board and isolate for 5 days in their own cabin and receive an actual cash refund for those 5 days.  I don't know if after 5 days they have to retest, or if they're allowed their freedom no matter what.  Imagine being in isolation over Christmas?

 

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/travel/cruising-rules

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3 hours ago, lexmiller said:

Wanted to update what I'd written regarding the mandatory monitored B2B testing occurring on the Eclipse - indeed, several (I have no idea how many, but several have posted on the Dec 20 social roll call) B2B passengers tested positive for covid and are in forced isolation.  But good news is that the Eclipse is still not registering as any Tier level on the Australian cruise tiered danger list.  Passengers have reported that they were given the opportunity to disembark on Dec 20 and receive a FCC for the cruise, or to stay on board and isolate for 5 days in their own cabin and receive an actual cash refund for those 5 days.  I don't know if after 5 days they have to retest, or if they're allowed their freedom no matter what.  Imagine being in isolation over Christmas?

 

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/travel/cruising-rules

Hopefully, they would be “released” by Christmas.  Room service gets a little old after day 3, but not much you can do about it.  Usually the day one tests positive is day 0, as it was for me when I was quarantined!

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