Sun Princess - Original

[Wishing on a star]

18 minutes ago, memoak said:

Your hotel room for tomorrow could be canceled by the hotel due to fire, flood or other issues

Wow.....  seriously?????

Those would be completely unforeseeable and possibly tragic issues.

Corporate mismanagement...  a whole 'other thing.

[Wishing on a star]

We ARE John Doe.....

That is so simple and profound.

Love that!

[Wishing on a star]

Honeymoon...  how devastating!!!!!!

I truly feel for you.

 

It does bear mentioning, however, that scheduling a meaningful, perhaps one in lifetime event, with a brand new ship roll-out can be a risk....

 

Again, I am SO sorry!!!!

I know you did not really foresee this happening!

[rheathslc]

15 minutes ago, Nemanoxer said:

I am finding it funny how, talking about an industry that is able to sell people a thing like Icon OTS as vacation, large portions of cruise folks believe that one, ten, a hundred or a thousand complaints from private persons matter to members of that industry at all.

 

Let me compare this to my job. I work for one of the top 5 biggest logistics providers in the world. Like cruise lines moving hundreds of passengers each day, we move a seven to eight digit count of shipments every day. I mean per day on a daily basis.

 

If General Motors or Apple or Tesla file a complaint with us, everybody gets moving and moves mountains. But if John Doe´s Bricklayer & Sons from Nowhere Valley files a complain... Well, someone will take care some given day. But if John Doe decides he never wants to work with us again, he is forgotten the next day.

 

And I strongly believe it´s the same thing with global players like Carnival and RCL. They know John Doe will come back some day, no matter what they did to him before. 

 

We are John Doe.

 

 

 

 

But who in this analogy would be the Apple or GM as customers of the cruise industry? I don't think this is quite the same. There aren't huge corporations out there booking up 90% of all the sailings to which the cruise lines all cater. This industry is almost entirely driven by demand from individuals. Sure, one or a hundred or even a thousand individuals might not register. But at some point the number of people leaving the brand over these kinds of frustrations would reach a critical mass. So unless they're counting on just constantly attracting new customers that will have an impact. And it's pretty basic business sense that keeping a current customer is more cost efficient than trying to attract new ones right? 

 

But I do get your point. Princess is certainly acting as if they really couldn't care less that several thousands of guests are upset.

Edited February 15 by rheathslc

[eroller]

1 hour ago, lstone19 said:

 

My guess is they've decided that the relatively small number of us affected by what is going on with Sun Princess is worth ignoring so they can continue to market to the rest of the potential passenger pool. Outside of those of us directly affected or left wondering, nobody cares and it's getting very little play in the media (which is not at all surprising).

 

Compare that to an airline which has melted down due to an inability to recover from weather. It quickly becomes big news in the affected area which is sometimes systemwide. To continue rah-rah marketing in the face of being page 1 news for the wrong reasons would just turn up the heat.

 

So they've decided they don't care about those of us booked on Sun Princess. We're expendable compared to what they believe they can attract in new or repeat business by continuing the marketing effort. So after our cruise happens (or not), why should I care about Princess. As I said in an earlier post, just another reason to try another cruise line.

 

Yes I absolutely believe there is truth to this.  Damage control.  Isolate it to a relatively small group and make no mention of it otherwise, like it doesn’t exist.  

[lgar88]

3 hours ago, rexdillinger said:

 

Wednesday morning, I received a call from a very nice lady at Princess (I won’t divulge her name) but she is part of the customer service Senior Management Team. She said the information I had receive that “all cruises of the Sun up until September would be cancelled” was incorrect and she was going to review the recording of my conversation to make sure this mistake didn’t happen to anyone else. 

 

After much discussion, I believe the original information I was given was incorrect. The Sun might not sail on the 28^th, but I don’t believe they will cancel all the cruises through August.

 

She did asked me if I would take down my posts, but I told her I wouldn’t take them unless she could say with certainty, that the February 28^th cruise would be sailing.

 

 “The cruise is scheduled to sail as planned,” was her response. 

 

When I pressed her, she said she could not guarantee that it would sail, which put me right back into the situation I had been in with the February 18^th cruise: a hope and a prayer that the Sun would sail. 

 

This lady was wonderful, and she even personally helped me rebook my outbound flight at our original fare. I have no complaints with her and appreciate all she did, however there are problems at Princess and those responsible hold a much higher job title than this lady.

 

I understand that things happen, schedules get blown up, problems are discovered at the last minute, and these things can lead to a last-minute cancellation of a cruise.  However, there is no excuse for Princess’ lack of timely communication or even no communication at all.

 

Over the past 3 weeks, I sent 4 emails begging Princess to confirm the 2/18 cruise. No response. I went to their online chat; nothing.

 

You cannot convince me that Princess didn’t know that the Sun wouldn’t be ready to sail this Sunday before 8:30pm Tuesday night. 

 

I have been involved with many muti-million-dollar projects during my career and anytime we were not able to meet out projected completion date, we knew well in advance. If Princess didn’t know the likelihood of the ship not sailing, then their project managers should be fired. 

 

In my opinion, they did know, and they knew well in advance of the original inaugural cruise, the 2^nd inaugural cruise, and for that matter, however many more cruises they might end up cancelling. In my opinion, they have a very good idea of what it will take to fix any of the “technical” issues they are having, but for some reason they believe silence is better than communication.  

 

Princess has failed their customers when it comes to transparent communication and upper management is to blame. Even though the Sun is technically scheduled to sail on the 28^th, I’m not convinced it will. How could I be after everything that has happened.

 

That’s my rant for today.

 

 

I was really looking forward to all your you tube videos you were going to post! I'm sad for you. 

 

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, rexdillinger said:

She asked me to take down my social media posts. She didn’t say which ones. I had also posted on Facebook and YouTube.

I would suspect that she was referring to those containing the mis information provided by the rep.

[lstone19]

1 hour ago, SouKnoMe said:

Wait I’m not comparing, but are you talking about SW? Oh I was stuck in that madness year before last. The lack of communication while I was trying to figure out what was happening, and how to get home was maddening. I will say that they refunded ALL of my expenses, which included hotel, rentals, replacement airfare, Uber, food everything!  But I still can’t book a flight. My trust doesn’t go that far. 
 

So I understand the frustration, and I’m hopeful but if things don’t get better…. 🚢

 

 

 

Well, I'm retired from an airline. WN (that's the code for Southwest) had their big problem in 2022 but other carriers (including mine) have had meltdowns as well over the years. And I agree, the lack of communications is frustrating and it happens because things don't scale well when hundreds of flights are impacted. A single disrupted flight can be handled manually. But when it's hundred of flights, that manual process just doesn't work. My carrier had a lot of decision support tools (25 years ago, I was part of the team that developed them but even they don't scale well). Crews need rest, planes need to get to maintenance stations for their periodic checks (some of which are as frequent as every other day), you basically end up needing to build a firewall and restart from a known state.

 

Others have commented about people arranging vacation time only to have the cruise cancelled. Above I mentioned being retired from an airline. I was always in a management position in a small group. I could take vacation when I wanted. But if you're in a large group (pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, airport service), you bid vacation time, usually before the start of the year. Their staffing plans are based on a certain percentage of that work group being on vacation every week of the year and some people get junior-manned into undesirable times. Not every pilot or flight attendant can have Christmas off. Some people move heaven and earth, make trades with other people, take an otherwise undesirable schedule, in order to get the time off. They may not have a chance to do that again for a few years.

Edited February 15 by lstone19
Added

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, rheathslc said:

But who in this analogy would be the Apple or GM as customers of the cruise industry? I don't think this is quite the same. There aren't huge corporations out there booking up 90% of all the sailings to which the cruise lines all cater. This industry is almost entirely driven by demand from individuals. Sure, one or a hundred or even a thousand individuals might not register. But at some point the number of people leaving the brand over these kinds of frustrations would reach a critical mass. So unless they're counting on just constantly attracting new customers that will have an impact. And it's pretty basic business sense that keeping a current customer is more cost efficient than trying to attract new ones right? 

 

But I do get your point. Princess is certainly acting as if they really couldn't care less that several thousands of guests are upset.

Let's see Princess is issuing full refunds, giving a 50% credit on a future sailing, plus additional coverage of incurred travel expenses. Seems to me that they are taking actions consistent with similar actions in the industry when cruises are cancelled close to sailing.

 

If they did not care they would refund the minimal amount.

[New2cruise2022]

7 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Let's see Princess is issuing full refunds, giving a 50% credit on a future sailing, plus additional coverage of incurred travel expenses. Seems to me that they are taking actions consistent with similar actions in the industry when cruises are cancelled close to sailing.

 

If they did not care they would refund the minimal amount.

Princess cares. They are working to restore what they have the ability to restore. Monetary compensation for services not rendered. There is not an easy or appropriate remedy for emotional disappointment.
 

The people hurt by this want more. It’s understandable. Months (years?) of planning and anticipation. Details attended to and everything discussed to the point of exhaustion.

 

Sure, everyone has a price. And a refund and 100% FCC would certainly be better than a 50% FCC. And maybe that shows that Princess cares … more. But at what cost? And most people when they are upset will take the refund and the additional offerings, but it is NEVER enough.
 

And economics implies that all cruisers will pay for anything Princess does to remedy and make cruisers feel better. 2000 people (cabins) with 50% FCC? They will be booking the same cruises that the rest of the people on this board are booking. They are willing to pay more because they have more to spend. It’s Monopoly money. They will create a shortage — even if small — on certain cruises and rooms in some categories. Pricing will naturally creep up across every ship and every room category. 
 

So we can all feel bad for those affected and hope for them to be made whole for their monetary considerations. But the above and beyond past the 50% FCC would come with a cost. A cost that every passenger will pay going forward. 

[eroller]

I think it’s beyond monetary compensation.  Open and honest communication in a timely manner I’m sure would be appreciated.  Transparency goes a long way.  Being purposeful vague creates speculation and a loss of credibility.  

[rheathslc]

5 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Let's see Princess is issuing full refunds, giving a 50% credit on a future sailing, plus additional coverage of incurred travel expenses. Seems to me that they are taking actions consistent with similar actions in the industry when cruises are cancelled close to sailing.

 

If they did not care they would refund the minimal amount.

I think the issue most people have right now is how late this cancelation happened and the lack of detailed information. And if they REALLY didn't know before Tuesday night that they would have to cancel that points to some serious failure within the organization. To top it off all of the social media and news around this seems be ignoring this cancelation almost completely. People feel like their very valid frustrations are being minimized.

 

It's not always about money or the compensation people are given. A business I have been loyal to for years that sells annual planners had a major fulfillment issue this year. Many people still don't have the 2024 planners they ordered months ago. People are understandably very upset. And we're talking $50-$100 orders, not the thousands that go into the cruise fare, airfare, etc. The CEO has regularly issued statements taking full responsibility and apologizing as well as keeping people updated on the process of fixing the mess. The way this company has handled the situation and the transparency and accountability have made me even more likely to continue using their planners in the future even with the issues they had. That's what people want from Princess right now. Accountability and transparency. With all the factors right now the apology that came with the notice didn't feel very genuine especially in the face of continued promotion of the ship all over SM. 

 

That's just my take on it though.

[rheathslc]

2 minutes ago, eroller said:

I think it’s beyond monetary compensation.  Open and honest communication in a timely manner I’m sure would be appreciated.  Transparency goes a long way.  Being purposeful vague creates speculation and a loss of credibility.  

This!

[karatemom2]

Exactly. People can be very understanding when they are given the unvarnished truth, treated with consideration and respect, and accorded the minimal notification time that one would reasonably expect given how far in advance Princess MUST have known that the ship would not be ready to host these initial voyages.

 

It is the abject lack of concern, consideration and honest communication that is truly the biggest issue here. It is poor form and shows a real lack of leadership.

[New2cruise2022]

We live in a litigious society where every word matters. Take something out of context or fail to provide enough context and the intended message is lost. Add social media, unintended bias and one thing said the wrong way is the beginning of the end. 
 

While being silent can carry the risk of looking culpable or hiding, the risk is still lower than saying the wrong thing. 
 

I’m guessing the determination in a meeting was “Actions speak louder than words.” Princess gets past this with actions. Not words. Refund plus FCC is a strong action. Taking possession of the Sun. Strong action. Keeping your mouth shut and getting the ship finished and ready for passengers. Strong action. Everyone is crazy upset this minute. But as soon as the first sailing filled with passengers happens … the same torches and  pitchforks mob will be drooling over reviews and pictures and YouTube vlogs and looking forward to cruising on the Sun. 
 

It doesn’t make anyone feel good without more information, but the straightest line with this crisis management is to be quiet and get stuff done. And also, let’s remember that this entire debacle is a first world problem. It’s vacation. It’s leisure. No one is starving to death, homeless, or being abused. They couldn’t go on their vacation. Their money was returned to them. 
 

The world will keep spinning. 

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, rheathslc said:

I think the issue most people have right now is how late this cancelation happened and the lack of detailed information. And if they REALLY didn't know before Tuesday night that they would have to cancel that points to some serious failure within the organization. To top it off all of the social media and news around this seems be ignoring this cancelation almost completely. People feel like their very valid frustrations are being minimized.

 

It's not always about money or the compensation people are given. A business I have been loyal to for years that sells annual planners had a major fulfillment issue this year. Many people still don't have the 2024 planners they ordered months ago. People are understandably very upset. And we're talking $50-$100 orders, not the thousands that go into the cruise fare, airfare, etc. The CEO has regularly issued statements taking full responsibility and apologizing as well as keeping people updated on the process of fixing the mess. The way this company has handled the situation and the transparency and accountability have made me even more likely to continue using their planners in the future even with the issues they had. That's what people want from Princess right now. Accountability and transparency. With all the factors right now the apology that came with the notice didn't feel very genuine especially in the face of continued promotion of the ship all over SM. 

 

That's just my take on it though.

I would expect that they expected to go, then encountered a situation that forced them to cancel. There are any number of tests that must be performed prior to letting passengers on board. Any one of which could result a cruise getting  canceled or delayed.

 

One of the first Royal class ships suffered similar delays. That was during a time when there was not the supply chain issues experienced post restart, a time when shipments from Asia to Europe are delayed due to red sea and the drought in Panama.

 

Complex projects, especially for new designs, can run into unexpected issues. Lots of tests right up until the passengers board. Add in certifications and lots of potential hold ups.

 

At least it is not getting built by Boeing.

 

 

[Fortunate 2 travel]

36 minutes ago, TRLD said:

I would expect that they expected to go, then encountered a situation that forced them to cancel. There are any number of tests that must be performed prior to letting passengers on board. Any one of which could result a cruise getting  canceled or delayed.

 

One of the first Royal class ships suffered similar delays. That was during a time when there was not the supply chain issues experienced post restart, a time when shipments from Asia to Europe are delayed due to red sea and the drought in Panama.

 

Complex projects, especially for new designs, can run into unexpected issues. Lots of tests right up until the passengers board. Add in certifications and lots of potential hold ups.

 

At least it is not getting built by Boeing.

 

 

AKA the Lazy B 🤣

[bubbaed]

49 minutes ago, eroller said:

I think it’s beyond monetary compensation.  Open and honest communication in a timely manner I’m sure would be appreciated.  Transparency goes a long way.  Being purposeful vague creates speculation and a loss of credibility.  

It's possible that Princess is/was under a legal contract with Fincantieri that prohibits them from sharing details of the delay, lest they find themselves in legal jeopardy. Until Princess takes 100% responsibility for the ship, they are likely not in control of what information they can and can't share with the public.

 

This could also explain the lack of media coverage, social media coverage, etc.

 

Until the other day, the ship, technically, did not belong to Princess - it belonged to the shipyard. Now that Princess has ownership, it is still parked at the dock getting work done so it makes sense that Princess would not want to throw their contractor under the bus, so to speak. Not to mention the Star, currently under construction, could be impacted by any negative press.

 

In the case of RC and the Icon rollout contrast with Sun's rollout, it's possible that RCI has a different legal arrangement with their shipyards than Princess does - one which allows them more freedom of sharing information.

 

Not en expert in such things, just guessing.

[eroller]

46 minutes ago, TRLD said:

I would expect that they expected to go, then encountered a situation that forced them to cancel. There are any number of tests that must be performed prior to letting passengers on board. Any one of which could result a cruise getting  canceled or delayed.

 

One of the first Royal class ships suffered similar delays. That was during a time when there was not the supply chain issues experienced post restart, a time when shipments from Asia to Europe are delayed due to red sea and the drought in Panama.

 

Complex projects, especially for new designs, can run into unexpected issues. Lots of tests right up until the passengers board. Add in certifications and lots of potential hold ups.

 

At least it is not getting built by Boeing.

 

 

 

All true, which is why you build in a substantial buffer before beginning revenue cruises.  Especially for a first in class prototype ship. Exactly what Royal did with ICON, a far more complex ship than SUN PRINCESS. A flawless introduction.  She had over a month of industry and employee shakedown cruises to get up to speed. Yes there were some issues as with any new ship, but lots of time to address them before the first paying pax stepped foot onboard.  That is the way you bring out a new ship. 
 

Why you would ever schedule revenue cruises directly after taking delivery of the ship is beyond me.  Very poor planning on the part of Princess Cruises resulting in two last minute cancellations.  It could have all been avoided with better advanced planning.  
 

Interesting all the apologists making excuses for Princess. They screwed up plain and simple.  I give them credit where credit is due and I’m Elite status with the line so obviously I’ve enjoyed many cruises on Princess, but I also don’t hesitate to call out the mistakes.  I’m no cheerleader.  

Edited February 15 by eroller

[voljeep]

1 minute ago, bubbaed said:

It's possible that Princess is/was under a legal contract with Fincantieri that prohibits them from sharing details of the delay, lest they find themselves in legal jeopardy. Until Princess takes 100% responsibility for the ship, they are likely not in control of what information they can and can't share with the public.

 

This could also explain the lack of media coverage, social media coverage, etc.

 

Until the other day, the ship, technically, did not belong to Princess - it belonged to the shipyard. Now that Princess has ownership, it is still parked at the dock getting work done so it makes sense that Princess would not want to throw their contractor under the bus, so to speak. Not to mention the Star, currently under construction, could be impacted by any negative press.

 

In the case of RC and the Icon rollout contrast with Sun's rollout, it's possible that RCI has a different legal arrangement with their shipyards than Princess does - one which allows them more freedom of sharing information.

 

Not en expert in such things, just guessing.

Spot ON !!

[voljeep]

2 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

All true, which is why you build in a substantial buffer before beginning revenue cruises.  Especially for a first in class prototype ship. Exactly what Royal did with ICON, a far more complex ship than SUN PRINCESS. A flawless introduction.  
 

Why you would ever schedule revenue cruises directly after taking delivery of the ship is beyond me.  Very poor planning on the part of Princess Cruises resulting in two last minute cancellations.  It could have all been avoided with better advanced planning.  

Early completion bonuses

Liquidated damages

Change Orders

[eroller]

3 minutes ago, voljeep said:

Early completion bonuses

Liquidated damages

Change Orders

 

BS excuses.  

[kathy49]

28 minutes ago, bubbaed said:

It's possible that Princess is/was under a legal contract with Fincantieri that prohibits them from sharing details of the delay, lest they find themselves in legal jeopardy. Until Princess takes 100% responsibility for the ship, they are likely not in control of what information they can and can't share with the public.

 

This could also explain the lack of media coverage, social media coverage, etc.

 

Until the other day, the ship, technically, did not belong to Princess - it belonged to the shipyard. Now that Princess has ownership, it is still parked at the dock getting work done so it makes sense that Princess would not want to throw their contractor under the bus, so to speak. Not to mention the Star, currently under construction, could be impacted by any negative press.

 

In the case of RC and the Icon rollout contrast with Sun's rollout, it's possible that RCI has a different legal arrangement with their shipyards than Princess does - one which allows them more freedom of sharing information.

 

Not en expert in such things, just guessing.

I think the explanation makes sense. However RCL really did not have to share much other than the usual lead up to the rollout which happened as planned.

[kiwi57]

It would be nice if Princess stepped up with the (well-deserved) full flight refunds, hotel money, food money, etc. that they are giving to the folks who were on their way or already in Europe when they heard the cancellation news of the Feb. 18 sailing to those of us who were in the same boat (in flight or already in Europe) having been cancelled for the Feb. 8th sailing.

As someone mentioned, people frequently add to their vacations on the front or back end to Europe. We did the front end add-on time and were on the plane one hour into the flight when we saw the cancellation email that was sent right after we took off. Our offer was a refund of what we paid, and some casino free play on our next cruise since it was a casino booking. $200 for airline change fees which we had to support with evidence. Even though we paid $2600 more for an upgraded cabin, that was not eligible for FCC. Not much.
We are still in Europe, after spending numerous jet-lagged hours upon arrival making arrangements on the fly and spending more than we originally paid Princess to cover new hotels, extra (last minute) flights, food, etc. waiting out our original return flight from Rome on the 18th. Of course, we had a good time, but not the amazing, relaxing new-ship vacation we were expecting. 
I am so sorry for all of those affected by this. I know just how you feel and Princess really dropped the ball here. Especially with the “yes, it will be sailing on the 8th” reassurances we were given more than once by Princess in the weeks leading up to it. 
Best of luck to everyone who is dealing with this right now. 

[h20skibum]

56 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

I think the explanation makes sense. However RCL really did not have to share much other than the usual lead up to the rollout which happened as planned.

RCL had two months from the date they took possession of Icon until the first revenue sailing.  Even then, not everything was 100% ready, and they sailed at reduced capacity.  I would expect Sun will still be working through issues through sailings in May.