More bad publicity for P&O

[Bill Y]

13 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

E.G Someone complaining about TUI flights being delayed and TUI aircrafts being swapped with a different company. People blaming the cruise company but in no way is it the cruise companies fault. They just hire an aircraft and say they want this included and that's it. Some people just can't seem to grasp how it works.

Yes, while I agree that the flight problems are beyond P&O’s control, and are in no way are condoning frivolous and dubious claims. The public are constantly being told by consumer affairs programs that the package provider is responsible for delivering all aspects of the package even if they subcontract. So complain to them in the first instance. So I feel that you are being a bit harsh.

[carlanthony24]

4 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I hope that's not another dig at me!  I'm just off another ***** eyed flight which I'll speak about later but  for now will say Britannia apparently had Christmas dinner problems too. 

Please don’t assume it is because it wasn’t. 

[carlanthony24]

13 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

Yes, while I agree that the flight problems are beyond P&O’s control, and are in no way are condoning frivolous and dubious claims. The public are constantly being told by consumer affairs programs that the package provider is responsible for delivering all aspects of the package even if they subcontract. So complain to them in the first instance. So I feel that you are being a bit harsh.

Not harsh. They are delivering all aspects because they have given you a flight. It’s now down to the airline to now get you out there. When we had complaints we literally said we can not do anything you need to go to the airline.

Edited December 31, 2022 by carlanthony24

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

Yes, while I agree that the flight problems are beyond P&O’s control, and are in no way are condoning frivolous and dubious claims. The public are constantly being told by consumer affairs programs that the package provider is responsible for delivering all aspects of the package even if they subcontract. So complain to them in the first instance. So I feel that you are being a bit harsh.

I can confirm that the package provider is responsible. After my "incident" with Princess in July ABTA found against them but the company who put the flight, hotel and cruise package together had to deal with the complaint with Princess and do the negotiations on our behalf. In our case it was a travel agent despite it being a Princess organised flight and cruise.

[Harry Peterson]

7 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

Yes, while I agree that the flight problems are beyond P&O’s control, and are in no way are condoning frivolous and dubious claims. The public are constantly being told by consumer affairs programs that the package provider is responsible for delivering all aspects of the package even if they subcontract. So complain to them in the first instance. So I feel that you are being a bit harsh.

Thank goodness for those consumer programmes etc too!  Without them, there’d be very little awareness of the rights customers have against companies who let them down. And given that the package provider makes the arrangements and takes a profit on them, it’s entirely right that the customer should be able to go there for redress - very few, if any rights against subcontractors.

[Yorkypete]

2 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Not harsh. They are delivering all aspects because they have given you a flight. It’s now down to the airline to now get you out there. When we had complaints we literally said we can no do anything you need to go to the airline.

Your contract is with the cruise company not the airlines.  The cruise company is responsible for getting you to the ship on time and are the ones you should complain to. They have got away with this for so long people believe it is down to the airlines. It may take a court to sort out the position.

[yorkshirephil]

16 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Not harsh. They are delivering all aspects because they have given you a flight. It’s now down to the airline to now get you out there. When we had complaints we literally said we can not do anything you need to go to the airline.

It is the responsibility of the package provider to get you on the ship, if the package provider is the cruise line they are responsible, saying you can't do anything is typical of the issues facing the travel industry, it is just passing the buck. We all recognise that there are issues and things do go wrong, but remember cruise lines and travel agents are quite happy to take your money so should provide the goods, as Ronseal say it should do what it says on the tin.

[carlanthony24]

Just now, Yorkypete said:

Your contract is with the cruise company not the airlines.  The cruise company is responsible for getting you to the ship on time and are the ones you should complain to. They have got away with this for so long people believe it is down to the airlines. It may take a court to sort out the position.

You actually have two contracts. One with the cruise company and one with the airline. The cruise company also have a contract with the airline and yourself. P&O can’t do anything regarding airlines having faults with their aircraft. Slots given by Air Traffic Control, lack of staff they have. A TUI plane goes tech it’s down to the airline to source a replacement and get you out there. If they don’t P&O now have to step in and liaise with TUI and other companies to sort it out. 
 

P&O could go for better airlines. In reality they may have spoken to BA but price is too much they won’t offer what P&O want. Maybe P&O have not spoke to them since they end up having a lot of IT problems. 

 

They ask TUI for instance we need a plane to carry x amount of passengers, we want this service and certain times we need you to arrive, depart. TUI come back and say yes we can offer all this. P&O accept. P&O reps are at the UK airport to assist but they have no overall control with what happens.

 

Back in March one of the P&O reps was asking for check in to be opened early. He was told we can’t do that even though it was a charter. 
 

A court would say the cruise company can’t do anything if it’s a problem with the airline. They’ve given you a flight not much else they can do.

[carlanthony24]

9 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

It is the responsibility of the package provider to get you on the ship, if the package provider is the cruise line they are responsible, saying you can't do anything is typical of the issues facing the travel industry, it is just passing the buck. We all recognise that there are issues and things do go wrong, but remember cruise lines and travel agents are quite happy to take your money so should provide the goods, as Ronseal say it should do what it says on the tin.

To get you on the ship yes but you are stuck in the UK due to an airline fault. Airline responsibility to sort it out.

 

You book with a travel agent for everything. Travel agent has no control over what happens with the flights.
 

it’s like saying Air Traffic Control wide outrage. Flights being cancelled. Cruise companies wouldn’t be able to do a thing.

Edited December 31, 2022 by carlanthony24

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

P&O could go for better airlines. In reality they may have spoken to BA but price is too much they won’t offer what P&O want

Actually, P&O have very little choice of airlines. BA is a non-starter for charter work,  other than from LGW. 

[yorkshirephil]

2 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

To get you on the ship yes but you are stuck in the UK due to an airline fault. Airline responsibility to sort it out. 
 

it’s like saying Air Traffic Control wide outrage. Flights being cancelled. Cruise companies wouldn’t be able to do a thing.

As I stated we recognise that issues occur, that does not absolve the package provider (cruise company/TA) from their responsibilities. You have openly admitted what I have always thought could happen, (When we had complaints we literally said we can not do anything)

[carlanthony24]

Just now, wowzz said:

Actually, P&O have very little choice of airlines. BA is a non-starter for charter work,  other than from LGW. 

They do have very little choice. They are lucky to have Virgin Atlantic do some flights for them. They could ask Titan  that do have long haul aircraft but most of them are narrow body and wouldn’t be able to do that distance with the added weight. 

[Bill Y]

37 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Not harsh. They are delivering all aspects because they have given you a flight. It’s now down to the airline to now get you out there. When we had complaints we literally said we can not do anything you need to go to the airline.

I would suggest that in the extreme case of the airline failing to get you to say Barbados the package provider could not simply wash their hands of the matter, it’s no good just saying not our fault Gov, the elements of the package has to be delivered.

 

I believe that the package holiday regulations came in decades ago, as it was common then for people to arrive at the hotel to find the rooms had been double booked and the tour operators just said not our fault Gov, we booked the hotel in good faith.

[Megabear2]

17 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

To get you on the ship yes but you are stuck in the UK due to an airline fault. Airline responsibility to sort it out. 
 

it’s like saying Air Traffic Control wide outrage. Flights being cancelled. Cruise companies wouldn’t be able to do a thing.

As you are aware the flights on 16th/17th December to Barbados were mainly disasters. P&O frint desk issued forms to those qualifying for the EU (yes I know) delay compensation.  In some cases this amounted to thousands of pounds as it was £500 per person.  These forms had to be submitted to TUI - I'm aware some on board were stating they had received this before the end of the cruise.

 

However this is not the end of the story.  Many had paid for Premium Economy seats but the aircraft had no such cabin.  These people have been told as far as I am aware that P&O are responsible for this and they will have to deal with customer service in Southampton.

 

To add to the problems most of the return flights yesterday had problems.  Apparently one Gatwick flight was again not serviced by TUI aircraft but the Spanish airline  one Manchester flight was arriving some 7 hours late so passengers were given the opportunity by P&O to move to the (still delayed) earlier flight which they changed to a larger aircraft. Those passengers again lost their PE seating and were split up and moved around among the unbooked seats.

 

My own flight was delayed by having the wrong number of passengers on it(!) which took 50 minutes to sort out. It also had no entertainment when it flew out from Birmingham and hence on our return flight to Gatwick. Apparently "the powers that be" insisted getting the flights in and out as near as on time was more important than creating a 4 1/2 minimum delay to repair the entertainment system. While an admirable goal I cant help but think these incidents are becoming all to frequent.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Megabear2

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Apparently "the powers that be" insisted getting the flights in and out as near as on time was more important than creating a 4 1/2 minimum delay to repair the entertainment system. While an admirable goal I cant help but think these incidents are becoming all to frequent.

I imagine TUI flight schedulers did not want a delay of that length because of the subsequent "knock on" effect for the rest of the flights over the weekend. 

[Megabear2]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I imagine TUI flight schedulers did not want a delay of that length because of the subsequent "knock on" effect for the rest of the flights over the weekend. 

I'm sure that's right but as a night flight it wasn't a major problem to us but I doubt the Birmingham passengers were so cheerful about no entertainment. I chatted to a member of staff onboard while doing some stretches and she told me that four out of five of her last Dreamliner duties were on aircraft with no entertainment.  

 

I recall comments on earlier Caribbean cruises this season where people complained over this problem too and perhaps there are indeed gremlins in TUI's entertainment programmes.  Incidentally the games section on our outward flight was locked unavailable and several people complained about that as their children wanted access.

[tring]

I am a little uncertain regards the actual.problem here, but can add some information.

 

A package organiser is responsible for the package, so flights need to be provided if included on the package.  If they change an airline, that is unlikely to be material. Also if a change had been from TUI to Condor for instance, they are all the same company.

 

However, airline delay legislation makes the airline responsible for that delay, if the delay is over a certain time, that delay time depending upon the length of the flight. Hence for a flight as part of a  package, it is for the consumer to claim from the airline directly regards any relevant delay.  If ithe delay is out of the control of the airline, e.g weather, then compensation is not payable, but they do have a duty of care.

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by tring

[carlanthony24]

15 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

As you are aware the flights on 16th/17th December to Barbados were mainly disasters. P&O frint desk issued forms to those qualifying for the EU (yes I know) delay compensation.  In some cases this amounted to thousands of pounds as it was £500 per person.  These forms had to be submitted to TUI - I'm aware some on board were stating they had received this before the end of the cruise.

 

However this is not the end of the story.  Many had paid for Premium Economy seats but the aircraft had no such cabin.  These people have been told as far as I am aware that P&O are responsible for this and they will have to deal with customer service in Southampton.

 

To add to the problems most of the return flights yesterday had problems.  Apparently one Gatwick flight was again not serviced by TUI aircraft but the Spanish airline  one Manchester flight was arriving some 7 hours late so passengers were given the opportunity by P&O to move to the (still delayed) earlier flight which they changed to a larger aircraft. Those passengers again lost their PE seating and were split up and moved around among the unbooked seats.

 

My own flight was delayed by having the wrong number of passengers on it(!) which took 50 minutes to sort out. It also had no entertainment when it flew out from Birmingham and hence on our return flight to Gatwick. Apparently "the powers that be" insisted getting the flights in and out as near as on time was more important than creating a 4 1/2 minimum delay to repair the entertainment system. While an admirable goal I cant help but think these incidents are becoming all to frequent.

Yep so P&O will give you the money back for PE they will get the losses back from TUI or who ever. At least P&O offered the forms to claim not received that service before.

 

TUI inflight entertainment system is truly shocking. Use to fly on the 767 that was the long haul aircraft at the time and the amount of times the system crashed or never worked was horrible. Dread to think what it would be like if they had WIFI available. Flying back not too bad since we was asleep most of the time but would of still been a bonus to have it working.

[carlanthony24]

18 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I imagine TUI flight schedulers did not want a delay of that length because of the subsequent "knock on" effect for the rest of the flights over the weekend. 

To be honest would rather have no entertainment than have over a 4hr delay which could turn into a bigger delay since the original crew would be out of hours and a replacement crew would need to be sourced which who knows where they may have to come from.

[kalos]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:07 PM, Host Sharon said:

I know we only tend to hear about poor experiences as happy passengers don't post so often but this does not reflect well for P&O.

 

 

I hope and wish that as tonight draws nearer, that the dining room saga and even the keg

beer or any other drink for that matter problems have been solved across the entire fleet.

Happy cruising to all onboard who sail into 2023😊

[carlanthony24]

16 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm sure that's right but as a night flight it wasn't a major problem to us but I doubt the Birmingham passengers were so cheerful about no entertainment. I chatted to a member of staff onboard while doing some stretches and she told me that four out of five of her last Dreamliner duties were on aircraft with no entertainment.  

 

I recall comments on earlier Caribbean cruises this season where people complained over this problem too and perhaps there are indeed gremlins in TUI's entertainment programmes.  Incidentally the games section on our outward flight was locked unavailable and several people complained about that as their children wanted access.

In March we were PE and some things we couldn't access. I thought being PE we got everything. Megabear can you confirm if that is correct regarding entertainment? 

Edited December 31, 2022 by carlanthony24

[Megabear2]

3 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

In March we were PE and some things we couldn't access. I thought being PE we got everything. Megabear can you confirm if that is correct regarding entertainment? 

We had films, a small amount of tv classics and radio.  Games were locked off.  A message came up asking if we wished to upgrade but we chose to watch what was available.anything other than route map and as above was unavailable.

[carlanthony24]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

We had films, a small amount of tv classics and radio.  Games were locked off.  A message came up asking if we wished to upgrade but we chose to watch what was available.anything other than route map and as above was unavailable.

Interesting. We had the exact same message.

[Megabear2]

31 minutes ago, tring said:

I am a little uncertain regards the actual.problem here, but can add some information.

 

A package organiser is responsible for the package, so flights need to be provided if included on the package.  If they change an airline, that is unlikely to be material. Also if a change had been from TUI to Condor for instance, they are all the same company.

 

However, airline delay legislation makes the airline responsible for that delay, if the delay is over a certain time, that delay time depending upon the length of the flight. Hence for a flight as part of a  package, it is for the consumer to claim from the airline directly regards any relevant delay.  If ithe delay is out of the control of the airline, e.g weather, then compensation is not payable, but they do have a duty of care.

 

I think the problem was exacerbated by the change of aircraft being to one class with 60 or so premium economy passengers without the seats they paid for.  Some were also upset at paying to choose seats together and then finding themselves scattered randomly around the aircraft.

 

No one actually told anyone who qualified to make a claim or how long a delay meant you were entitled to claim. I was delayed 3 hours but assumed I didn't qualify for anything. Others had delays in excess of 5 hours. No one knew who qualified and it was actually P&O who advised those who asked but no one else.

[tring]

33 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

As you are aware the flights on 16th/17th December to Barbados were mainly disasters. P&O frint desk issued forms to those qualifying for the EU (yes I know) delay compensation.  In some cases this amounted to thousands of pounds as it was £500 per person.  These forms had to be submitted to TUI - I'm aware some on board were stating they had received this before the end of the cruise.

 

However this is not the end of the story.  Many had paid for Premium Economy seats but the aircraft had no such cabin.  These people have been told as far as I am aware that P&O are responsible for this and they will have to deal with customer service in Southampton.

 

To add to the problems most of the return flights yesterday had problems.  Apparently one Gatwick flight was again not serviced by TUI aircraft but the Spanish airline  one Manchester flight was arriving some 7 hours late so passengers were given the opportunity by P&O to move to the (still delayed) earlier flight which they changed to a larger aircraft. Those passengers again lost their PE seating and were split up and moved around among the unbooked seats.

 

My own flight was delayed by having the wrong number of passengers on it(!) which took 50 minutes to sort out. It also had no entertainment when it flew out from Birmingham and hence on our return flight to Gatwick. Apparently "the powers that be" insisted getting the flights in and out as near as on time was more important than creating a 4 1/2 minimum delay to repair the entertainment system. While an admirable goal I cant help but think these incidents are becoming all to frequent.

 

Sorry to hear about your problems, hope you get a good rest and are feeling better soon.

 

Just a few points:_

 

Delay compensation was an EU regulation, but on brexit it was enshrined into UK law.

 

As I said previously, which airline is used is not material, however if a seat booking cannot be provided in the same grade (e.g. PE, or extra legroom) the you are eligible for a refund plus compensation from P&O as package provider.

 

Regards in flight entertainment, you would have an entitlement to that if it is something you were promised in your contract.  If you were told you will fly on a Dreamliner, then it would be assumed you did have in flight entertainment, hence would be eligible for compensation for lack of that.  That again would be the responsibility of P&O.  

 

Presuming P&O will have stated certain requirements in their contract with TUI, so would be able to claim from TUI for any shortfalls. 

 

 

I hope you and others manage to get this sorted.