Will HAL Changes Discourage Regular HAL Cruisers

[Hlitner]

12 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

If you have ways in which you think HAL should improve you really should address them to HAL corporate management.  Otherwise, it’s just “piling on”.  There’s not a lot that cruise critic can do to address your concerns.  

Do you really think management listens?  I do think management only hears the bottom line.  As to posting here, it simply gives a heads up to others who both contribute and learn.  That is the purpose of CC.

 

Hank

[Florida_gal_50]

2 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Do you really think management listens?  I do think management only hears the bottom line.  As to posting here, it simply gives a heads up to others who both contribute and learn.  That is the purpose of CC.

 

Hank

I was thinking the same here.  I want to hear good and bad, not just the sugar coat.  Don't dare say anything negative or get ready for a pile on.  I've said many good things about hal that seemed to be ignored by several.

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I was thinking the same here.  I want to hear good and bad, not just the sugar coat.  Don't dare say anything negative or get ready for a pile on.  I've said many good things about hal that seemed to be ignored by several.

Some of our HAL cruising friends have not cruised on any other line for decades.  They do not understand why DW and I cruise on many other lines.  Their attitude is "HAL only" and just accept the product.  We suggest that folks try some of the competition.  You will find an awful lot of past HAL fans have moved to Oceania, Azamara or Seabourn.  Why?  Based on lots of onboard discussions they are looking for the kind of small ship cruise experience they USED TO GET on HAL.  IMHO, loyalty needs to be a two way street.  Constant cut-backs are no way to treat loyal or new customers.  We do hope that HAL management gets the message before our next voyage :).

 

Hank

[Florida_gal_50]

17 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Some of our HAL cruising friends have not cruised on any other line for decades.  They do not understand why DW and I cruise on many other lines.  Their attitude is "HAL only" and just accept the product.  We suggest that folks try some of the competition.  You will find an awful lot of past HAL fans have moved to Oceania, Azamara or Seabourn.  Why?  Based on lots of onboard discussions they are looking for the kind of small ship cruise experience they USED TO GET on HAL.  IMHO, loyalty needs to be a two way street.  Constant cut-backs are no way to treat loyal or new customers.  We do hope that HAL management gets the message before our next voyage :).

 

Hank

I'm not afraid to try other lines.  I'm elite on princess.  I've also cruised celebrity.  I really thought my next cruise would be on celebrity until I saw how their cfar insurance is.  My reasons for canceling are not the typical so this is what I need.  I have medical separately. On Princess the cfar only gives you fcc unless it's for a covered reason which mine would likely not be. Sometimes it's not as easy to pivot to something else.  Things I love on hal

 

Cabanas

Club orange

Hals breakfast menu, its very extensive 

Access to your room early

The food is generally very good in the mdr 

Specialty restaurants and discounts that go along with it

 

I can tell you my list is much shorter for other lines.  I'm not in the financial space for luxury lines.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[Pickalily, Wilts]

Will HAL changes discourage regular HAL cruisers?

 

We've  taken 7 HAL cruises so far (should have been 8 but had to cancel last year for health reasons) and have cruised with several other lines, including some which consider themselves to be 5*+.  

 

HAL suits us well.  DH is ex-Royal Navy and appreciates that the line is a well run professional outfit.  We've seen changes over the years, but keep coming back to the DAM ships.  Of course, we've noticed  cut-backs in the restaurants, but an imaginative chef can still produce delicious food from slightly cheaper ingredients.  Many cruise lines boast that they provide 'fine dining', but how can that be achieved when mass catering is involved?

 

We like the introduction of BB Kings and Rolling Stone Rock Room bands and would miss them if we ever went back to the older, smaller ships.  (The evening entertainment was always pretty ordinary, but has certainly improved of late - in our opinion - We're not bothered about production shows and don't need entertaining during the day, although a few interesting lectures wouldn't go amiss.)

 

We know HAL isn't perfect, but it meets our requirements.  The next cruise is in May and time will tell if it lives up to expectations.  Glass half full etc......  Can't wait.

 

 

[oaktreerb]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Do you really think management listens?  I do think management only hears the bottom line.  As to posting here, it simply gives a heads up to others who both contribute and learn.  That is the purpose of CC.

 

Hank

I know that they listen.  What you have to do is offer positive suggestions.  Tell Gus how you think they can improve their product.  He will forward your positive comments to the appropriate department. It takes time for HAL to make changes but they do listen.  Look at the itinerary enhancements for 2024, like the 28 day Alaska itinerary in prime Alaska cruising season.  They are moving forward.  

 

 

 

 

[oaktreerb]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Do you really think management listens?  I do think management only hears the bottom line.  As to posting here, it simply gives a heads up to others who both contribute and learn.  That is the purpose of CC.

 

Hank

You frequently encourage people to move to competitors.  This cruise critic site is for information about Holland America.  If you have an issue with HAL, state what your issue is.  Other lines have issues, too.  

[Florida_gal_50]

1 minute ago, oaktreerb said:

I know that they listen.  What you have to do is offer positive suggestions.  Tell Gus how you think they can improve their product.  He will forward your positive comments to the appropriate department. It takes time for HAL to make changes but they do listen.  Look at the itinerary enhancements for 2024, like the 28 day Alaska itinerary in prime Alaska cruising season.  They are moving forward.  

 

 

 

 

So that's proof that they listen?  That's not on my wish list.  I wouldn't take that cruise if it was free.  I'd love  to see a cruise from Eastern Canada to Iceland and Greenland and not one that is 30 plus days.  If it's doable I'd love to see it around 14 or 15 days.  I doubt anyone is wishing for cutbacks in entertainment or less enrichment speakers or to have ship packed to the nuts but maybe I'm wrong.  Gus has never phoned me  for a chat.

[Hlitner]

24 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

You frequently encourage people to move to competitors.  This cruise critic site is for information about Holland America.  If you have an issue with HAL, state what your issue is.  Other lines have issues, too.  

Sigh!  I have stated (too often) multiple issues.  We could start with the awful suite program (when compared to most of the competition), the cut-backs in both the MDR and Lido, the ridiculous add-ons in the MDR (like a cheap budget cruise line), add-ons in the Pinnacle (including an extra charge if one simply orders a starter, salad, and main), the elimination of Production Shows, the use of BBC documentaries as entertainment, the hours of the Lido (long a HAL issue), etc, etc.  And just last week we heard that HAL getting rid of the Lincoln Center groups on most ships.  I am old school and still miss the nightly Rosario Strings (long gone)l

 

And yes, I am sure every line has some issues, and they also get discussed here on CC.  This is not about picking on HAL, but simply giving a critical appraisal of all the various products.

[Hlitner]

26 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

You frequently encourage people to move to competitors.  This cruise critic site is for information about Holland America.  If you have an issue with HAL, state what your issue is.  Other lines have issues, too.  

I should have also responded that we do not encourage folks to "move to competitors" but simply suggest they might want to try some competitors.  The difference is one can cruise on multiple lines including HAL.  I do not understand this loyalty thing that says folks must only cruise on a single line to the exclusion of all others.  Even sticking within the HAL Group (which includes Princess and Seabourn) provides an interesting comparison.

[donandmelissa]

So, we have only cruised HAL once, right before the pandemic on the Nieuw Amsterdam.  We didn't experience any of these issues.  We have cruised Celebrity and Carnival post pandemic and their service and quality was definitely down.  I suspect this is the case on all of the middle tier and economy lines.  But we still find cruising to be one of our best use of our vacation dollars, even with the service decline.

 

We are taking a HAL transatlantic in April and we will be fine if we experience the issues noted in this thread.  Why?  Because we are paying Carnival prices for a HAL cruise. It is a sweet deal!  Less than $100 per day each for a V category stateroom on the Nieuw Statendam.  So, if we have to wait a little bit for dinner, or spend every night dancing in a night club instead of at a show, no problem!  It still beats the heck out of everyday life.  

[oakridger]

1 minute ago, donandmelissa said:

Because we are paying Carnival prices for a HAL cruise. It is a sweet deal!  Less than $100 per day each for a V category stateroom on the Nieuw Statendam.

 

I believe that is part of the problem.  Charging these incredibly low prices how can HAL possibly keep up a higher level of food and service than the budget lines?  Not possible in the long term.

 

~Nancy

[Florida_gal_50]

5 minutes ago, donandmelissa said:

So, we have only cruised HAL once, right before the pandemic on the Nieuw Amsterdam.  We didn't experience any of these issues.  We have cruised Celebrity and Carnival post pandemic and their service and quality was definitely down.  I suspect this is the case on all of the middle tier and economy lines.  But we still find cruising to be one of our best use of our vacation dollars, even with the service decline.

 

We are taking a HAL transatlantic in April and we will be fine if we experience the issues noted in this thread.  Why?  Because we are paying Carnival prices for a HAL cruise. It is a sweet deal!  Less than $100 per day each for a V category stateroom on the Nieuw Statendam.  So, if we have to wait a little bit for dinner, or spend every night dancing in a night club instead of at a show, no problem!  It still beats the heck out of everyday life.  

That is a great deal.  I've been looking at a cruise with an obstructed balcony for $433 per day!  That does include HIA though.  That's not cheap to me.

[oaktreerb]

35 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

So that's proof that they listen?  That's not on my wish list.  I wouldn't take that cruise if it was free.  I'd love  to see a cruise from Eastern Canada to Iceland and Greenland and not one that is 30 plus days.  If it's doable I'd love to see it around 14 or 15 days.  I doubt anyone is wishing for cutbacks in entertainment or less enrichment speakers or to have ship packed to the nuts but maybe I'm wrong.  Gus has never phoned me  for a chat.

Then write to corporate and tell them your wish list.  Can’t hurt!

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, oakridger said:

 

I believe that is part of the problem.  Charging these incredibly low prices how can HAL possibly keep up a higher level of food and service than the budget lines?  Not possible in the long term.

 

~Nancy

Perhaps they can only sell cabins at those low prices.  All the cruise lines use pretty sophisticated "yield management" algorithms " in conjunction with management guessing, The idea is to sell the maximum number of berths at the maximum price.  Low prices and all kinds of casino specials would suggest that a line is unable to achieve their sale goals at higher prices.

 

Hank 

[ChinaShrek]

8 hours ago, PACD_JG said:

HAL...the cruiseline for masochists.

Or for this those getting free or discounted casino cruises.

[Florida_gal_50]

8 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

Then write to corporate and tell them your wish list.  Can’t hurt!

Write where? Can you imagine how many emails and letters they get?  Over the years I’ve suggested many things on my surveys.  I’ve even filled out surveys that were random.  It doesn’t change.  Just because you like the Alaska itinerary doesn’t tell me anything other than Alaska is popular.  I’ve also seen others suggest a very similar itinerary to the one I’ve suggested. Crickets.

[pirate cruiser]

The bottom line is you like cruising or you don't-if all people do is focus on the negative I say try something else-we just love being on the ship and the atmosphere-you can choose to have fun or not but we think it is still a great option.

[donandmelissa]

1 hour ago, oakridger said:

 

I believe that is part of the problem.  Charging these incredibly low prices how can HAL possibly keep up a higher level of food and service than the budget lines?  Not possible in the long term.

 

~Nancy

Nancy, you are probably right but it likely won’t change anytime soon. The economy is driving the prices down.  The alternative is sailing at far less than capacity.  They can’t afford not to fill the cabins. Quite frankly, long term, they can’t afford to deliver mediocre service either.  The other reality is that HAL’s traditional niche type cruisers won’t live forever. They seem to be courting a younger demographic. The younger cruisers may have different preferences as to dining and entertainment.  They will make plenty of $ on my cabin. Alcohol, gambling, specialty dining, etc. 

 

By the way, we also booked a 14 day transatlantic in 2024 with an aft facing balcony for &2400 pp with tips, elite beverage, $276 OBC,  premium internet, 2 nights specialty dining, and $200 each towards excursions. Deals are out there to be had. 

[Cruise Suzy]

2 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I'd love  to see a cruise from Eastern Canada to Iceland and Greenland and not one that is 30 plus days.  If it's doable I'd love to see it around 14 or 15 days.

 

Have you seen the 24-Day Canada, New England & Iceland cruise for July/August 2024 with the really special promo right now? Not 14-15 days but certainly less than 30 plus.

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/find-a-cruise/N4A24A/V443.html

[Florida_gal_50]

6 minutes ago, Cruise Suzy said:

 

Have you seen the 24-Day Canada, New England & Iceland cruise for July/August 2024 with the really special promo right now? Not 14-15 days but certainly less than 30 plus.

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/find-a-cruise/N4A24A/V443.html

Thank you for the suggestion.  I did look at this one when it was on the nieuw statendam last year and it was so expensive.  I see it’s still around the same.  The dates were better than this one.  I have precious few holidays now so there is no way I can make this work.  Also it’s over the month end so it’s double trouble.  I do appreciate the suggestion though.

[REOVA]

No doubt all cruise lines are faced with today's economic issues so we shouldn't expect too much change before 2025 (I call this the new "baseline"). The quick turn around money now is coming from new cruisers and short itineraries (Caribbean, Alaska, Quebec etc).

 

HAL (CCL) has had management changes, staff/talent reduction and supply issues (as have others). It will take time to train crew and work out their new promises (planned itineraries) and then we can see what they look like. If they can make strides to focus on their history and roots and diversify the brands, that will help to become the "new improved" old HAL. If they just have excuses, that becomes a problem for maintaining loyal cruisers (if they even want them). 

 

I've watched people not like 1 or 2 things about HAL and switch to another line and, while they may be better on those 2 things, there are 3 other things about the others they hate. It's like really getting annoyed by that one thing your spouse does and you split up and the new spouse have more annoying things and you miss the old things of the prior. (Not from experience 🤫). 

 

We all cruise for 3 or 4 reasons so trying to find a cruiseline that hits those points, at a price point we can afford, is what is realistic. And getting CC feedback helps, however opinions are subjective and each cruise (even on same ship) can vary depending on who (passengers, crew, entertainers) is on it.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

22 minutes ago, REOVA said:

We all cruise for 3 or 4 reasons so trying to find a cruiseline that hits those points, at a price point we can afford, is what is realistic. And getting CC feedback helps, however opinions are subjective and each cruise (even on same ship) can vary depending on who (passengers, crew, entertainers) is on it.

 

Excellent points. 

 

My strategy is to accept that not all lines can do everything equally well. Or if they can, they're probably beyond my ability to afford them. 😉 I also think lines tend to go up and down based on new management, new focus, new ships being launched, etc.

 

I like to keep 3-4 lines in consideration at any given time. I may give any one of them my cruise dollars depending on itinerary, recent onboard experiences (my own and others), and cost.  I find it sort of strange that some people want every line to be the same and sometimes can't accept even small differences across lines without complaining. 

 

Loyalty to a line is also a weird concept to me. If one can love more than one child, why not more than one line?  🤣

 

To get back to the OP's question, I actually see a few positive things lately, with HAL's announcement about focusing on longer cruises. The jury is out on entertainment -- a lot depends on where they go after these recent announcements about changes to Lincoln Center, BB Kings and so on. My gut feeling is that it couldn't get much worse, so maybe it will improve or HAL will concentrate on things that complement their longer voyages...

 

And as for food:  the start of 2023 has been one of cutbacks across almost all cruise lines. Many of you may remember I've been very happy with Celebrity over the past few years, but I feel they have been hit harder than most with cutbacks. In 2021 and 2022 I feel they definitely had the best dining experience between X, HAL and Princess. Now they have made drastic changes. HAL is also making changes but they seem to be fewer/less drastic.... so far. 

 

So X has lowered the bar and now is back in the middle of the field for me (though I still really like their older M-class ships).  I'm on Westerdam for 28 days in late March-April, and I am going with an open mind and with less trepidation about the onboard dining than, say, 6 months ago. 

 

I also have cruises booked on Oceania and Azamara this year. To be brutally honest, food quality, prep and presentation do matter a lot to me, and I may have finally reached the tipping point where the mass market lines can no longer reliably deliver.

 

It's going to be an interesting year or two....

 

[REOVA]

19 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Loyalty to a line is also a weird concept to me.

And that will be another issue people will (do) complain about. When all of us old cruisers stick around and new 5 star cruisers come up, the dilution of loyalty programs will need to change. Already is causing problems with MSC matching. 

 

19 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

If one can love more than one child, why not more than one line?  🤣

Probably why we only had 1 child. 🤪

 

 

19 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I also have cruises booked on Oceania and Azamara this year. 

Say hello to Orlando. 

19 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It's going to be an interesting year or two....

 

Yes. Let's hope the cruiselines succeed, new variety expands and "vive la difference" 

[mcrcruiser]

7 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I should have also responded that we do not encourage folks to "move to competitors" but simply suggest they might want to try some competitors.  The difference is one can cruise on multiple lines including HAL.  I do not understand this loyalty thing that says folks must only cruise on a single line to the exclusion of all others.  Even sticking within the HAL Group (which includes Princess and Seabourn) provides an interesting comparison.

Hank you are very correct & I for one appreciate your posts .They bring to light how HAL gas changed over time  .Additionally ,why should any one  cruise only one line   .Variety is the Spice of Life😁

Cliff