NCL wins the service charge race !

[MkeCruzn]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:02 PM, sanger727 said:

I’m not naive enough to think that the fact that NCL is charging more for DSC means that the crew makes more.

 

just like i don’t believe the fact that NCLs drink package tips are higher means their bartenders make more.

I was curious about how the prepaid tips on the beverage package were allocated, so I asked the beverage manager. Tips are based on who served what drink, whether on a package or pay as you go. If there's a server and bartender involved (vs just sitting at the bar) then both get a tip. Restaurants probably do the same thing, and I hope that the servers get more tip money if they come and refill your wine glass during the meal.

Obviously, if you buy a package and your daily bill is less than what they would charge by the drink, then your tip money is left over. I didn't ask where that went, but hopefully it went into the general pool to be allocated to crew members.

One downside of the package is that you don't automatically have a way to add anything extra for great service. I suppose you could ask them to bill your card. You do get something to sign if you pay an upcharge for a premium drink, and in that case you really should add something if you want to keep the percentage correct (and the upcharge is more than a couple of dollars).

Just my 2c 🙂

[laudergayle]

7 minutes ago, MkeCruzn said:

Just my 2c 🙂

Watch out…soon you may have to pay a nickel to give your 2 cents😂

[ChiefMateJRK]

43 minutes ago, MkeCruzn said:

One downside of the package is that you don't automatically have a way to add anything extra for great service.

Most of us just carry around some dollar bills for that.  Others?  Different thread.....

[luv2kroooz]

Anyone who wants to compensate the crew in a very direct, personal way is free to do so. 

[PTC DAWG]

14 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Most of us just carry around some dollar bills for that.  Others?  Different thread.....

Just as good as CASH

[Oakman58]

If you don't like what NCL is doing then go looking for another line to cruise with.  That's what I did.

[Topdog52]

14 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Most of us just carry around some dollar bills for that.  Others?  Different thread.....

That is exactly what I do. I do the same thing when I go out to a restaurant. I put $0 for a tip on the bill and leave cash on the table.

[wcook]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:07 PM, njhorseman said:

The service charge is NOT just to fund the pay of stateroom attendants, it also for dining room staff and some other behind-the-scenes support staff.

Also known as “employee salaries.” The industry needs to stop pretending these are service charges that should be charged separately. What’s next, a fee to the captain for steering the boat? It’s a game every cruise line plays to make fares look lower. NCL is just a bit more extreme than the other lines. But if anyone thinks raised charges had to do with rewarding hard working servers…

[wcook]

12 hours ago, luv2kroooz said:

Anyone who wants to compensate the crew in a very direct, personal way is free to do so. 

I assume we are talking cash here. Otherwise, an offer of “personal compensation” to the wrong crew member can get you thrown off the ship. 

[Topdog52]

2 minutes ago, wcook said:

Also known as “employee salaries.” The industry needs to stop pretending these are service charges that should be charged separately. What’s next, a fee to the captain for steering the boat? It’s a game every cruise line plays to make fares look lower. NCL is just a bit more extreme than the other lines. But if anyone thinks raised charges had to do with rewarding hard working servers…

Exactly!!! Are these employee's of NCL, or us. NCL needs to quit playing games. 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, wcook said:

Also known as “employee salaries.” The industry needs to stop pretending these are service charges that should be charged separately. What’s next, a fee to the captain for steering the boat? It’s a game every cruise line plays to make fares look lower. NCL is just a bit more extreme than the other lines. But if anyone thinks raised charges had to do with rewarding hard working servers…

 

1 hour ago, Topdog52 said:

Exactly!!! Are these employee's of NCL, or us. NCL needs to quit playing games. 

Regardless of the way it's done...service charges, gratuities, salary or a combination of any of the three, you, the passenger is the person paying it. It just becomes a matter of whether it's invisibly loaded into the fare as salary would be, or transacted separately.

 

When you buy a dozen eggs in your local supermarket the price you pay includes the salaries of every person who earned a wage in the process of getting the eggs to market, from the person who gathered them to the cashier who took your money, and everyone in between.

 

The cruise industry isn't the only business where employees may be compensated by any combination salary, gratuities and service charges. Look at the restaurant industry in the US. In most cases the wait staff earns very little in salary with most earnings coming from tips, service charges or both. In New Jersey tipped workers currently only have to be paid a minimum salary of $5.26 per hour despite the current minimum wage being $14.13 per hour. As long as the total of the $5.26 plus any percentage of billed service charges plus any tips equals or exceeds $14.13 the employer is required to pay nothing additional . If the $14.13 minimum isn't met then the employer has to make up the shortfall. Most every waiter and waitress we know...and we eat in restaurants very frequently...are quite satisfied with this arrangement because they know that if they provide good service they make a lot more money than they would if they were paid a straight salary.  Regardless, if they were paid a straight salary the restaurant prices would have to be increased to cover that salary so you'd be paying more for your meal.

 

The bottom line is that you, the ultimate consumer of the product or service, pays for everything regardless of how the wages are diced or sliced into salary, service charge or gratuity.

[Topdog52]

20 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

Regardless of the way it's done...service charges, gratuities, salary or a combination of any of the three, you, the passenger is the person paying it. It just becomes a matter of whether it's invisibly loaded into the fare as salary would be, or transacted separately.

 

When you buy a dozen eggs in your local supermarket the price you pay includes the salaries of every person who earned a wage in the process of getting the eggs to market, from the person who gathered them to the cashier who took your money, and everyone in between.

 

The cruise industry isn't the only business where employees may be compensated by any combination salary, gratuities and service charges. Look at the restaurant industry in the US. In most cases the wait staff earns very little in salary with most earnings coming from tips, service charges or both. In New Jersey tipped workers currently only have to be paid a minimum salary of $5.26 per hour despite the current minimum wage being $14.13 per hour. As long as the total of the $5.26 plus any percentage of billed service charges plus any tips equals or exceeds $14.13 the employer is required to pay nothing additional . If the $14.13 minimum isn't met then the employer has to make up the shortfall. Most every waiter and waitress we know...and we eat in restaurants very frequently...are quite satisfied with this arrangement because they know that if they provide good service they make a lot more money than they would if they were paid a straight salary.  Regardless, if they were paid a straight salary the restaurant prices would have to be increased to cover that salary so you'd be paying more for your meal.

 

The bottom line is that you, the ultimate consumer of the product or service, pays for everything regardless of how the wages are diced or sliced into salary, service charge or gratuity.

When you go to the super market you see the total price of the eggs. You do not see a discounted price on the box, then get to the cashier and see you have to pay a service charge. The price is exactly what you see on the carton for the eggs.  

[njhorseman]

5 minutes ago, Topdog52 said:

When you go to the super market you see the total price of the eggs. You do not see a discounted price on the box, then get to the cashier and see you have to pay a service charge. The price is exactly what you see on the carton for the eggs.  

Yes, that's exactly what I said about the eggs.

When you go to a restaurant is that the case? Very, very rarely. The point is that there are other common situations that are handled in a similar fashion to cruises. My point is that you are the one who's going to pay for it regardless of how it's done so it really shouldn't matter to you. In fact the service charge/tipping scenario really favors you in the event of grossly unsatisfactory service. You can lower or even altogether eliminate a service charge or tip, while if you paid the salary as a part of the fare you are stuck with it.

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, Oakman58 said:

If you don't like what NCL is doing then go looking for another line to cruise with.  That's what I did.

 

Yet here you are . . . like someone sitting in the car outside of their ex's house. FWIW, if you really are looking for another line, you won't find one here.

 

7 minutes ago, Topdog52 said:

When you go to the super market you see the total price of the eggs. You do not see a discounted price on the box, then get to the cashier and see you have to pay a service charge. The price is exactly what you see on the carton for the eggs.  

 

So? How is this relevant?

 

$4 for the item + $1 service charge is $5 that you have to pay. If I use your "logic", then $5 for the item + $0 service charge is $5 that you have to pay. No difference. None. This is only a problem if a person can't functionally understand 4+1=5. Is that the issue you think needs solving? Component pricing is so commonplace in society that I'd argue that anyone who is confused by it should not be making their own financial decisions.

[The Traveling Man]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:17 PM, styles27 said:

I have no problem at all paying a higher service charge as long as they don’t take away services. 
 

 

But recently they HAVE been reducing services.  Stateroom attendants today are assigned almost twice as many rooms as they were a few years ago.  First they cut out the towel animals.  Now NCL only provides room cleaning once per day with no turndown service.  With more rooms to clean, your attendant may not get around to your room until mid-afternoon.  The laundry bag you left in your room before 9:00 may not be picked up until late afternoon, meaning you won’t get it back the following day as promised.  Meal service, especially in the MDR, may be considerably slower than it used to be.  The theater may be dark several nights during your cruise because they have cut back on entertainment.  Some of the shows and lounge acts which they do have may not be worth your time because they aren’t paying enough to attract the best talent.  We experienced each of these on the Sky earlier this month.  YMMV.

[Topdog52]

22 minutes ago, The Traveling Man said:

But recently they HAVE been reducing services.  Stateroom attendants today are assigned almost twice as many rooms as they were a few years ago.  First they cut out the towel animals.  Now NCL only provides room cleaning once per day with no turndown service.  With more rooms to clean, your attendant may not get around to your room until mid-afternoon.  The laundry bag you left in your room before 9:00 may not be picked up until late afternoon, meaning you won’t get it back the following day as promised.  Meal service, especially in the MDR, may be considerably slower than it used to be.  The theater may be dark several nights during your cruise because they have cut back on entertainment.  Some of the shows and lounge acts which they do have may not be worth your time because they aren’t paying enough to attract the best talent.  We experienced each of these on the Sky earlier this month.  YMMV.

NAILED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes I agree. You either charge more, or cut back service. You do not do both at the same time.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Topdog52

[Oakman58]

44 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

Yet here you are . . . like someone sitting in the car outside of their ex's house. FWIW, if you really are looking for another line, you won't find one here.

 

 

 

 

So your saying if you're not married to NCL for a cruise line you shouldn't be looking at the NCL forum.  That's rather pathetic.

 

No, I'm not looking for another cruise line on this forum, I'm looking for cruise conversation.  I have plenty of experience with NCL which is why I'm hoping to find a cruise line I like better.  Currently I prefer Carnival, but cruise lines are making changes so fast it's hard to keep up.

[wcook]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

My point is that you are the one who's going to pay for it regardless of how it's done so it really shouldn't matter to you.

It matters to me because it’s a deceptive practice that forces me to work to understand the cost of a product I’m buying. End of the world? No. But it needs to die. 

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, wcook said:

I assume we are talking cash here. Otherwise, an offer of “personal compensation” to the wrong crew member can get you thrown off the ship. 

Wow, sounds pretty severe to me. 

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, wcook said:

I assume we are talking cash here. Otherwise, an offer of “personal compensation” to the wrong crew member can get you thrown off the ship. 

Wow, sounds pretty severe to me. 

[SeaShark]

1 hour ago, Oakman58 said:

 

So your saying if you're not married to NCL for a cruise line you shouldn't be looking at the NCL forum.  That's rather pathetic.

 

 

Nope...that isn't what I said at all...those are your words, not mine. Personally, I think twisting what someone says just to argue against it is what is pathetic.

 

FWIW, I don't think you have to be "married to NCL" to be here, however, I think if you declare...I'm done and want to find another line, then you should not. IOW, if you've decided to move on, then move on...don't hang like a spurned ex.

[Anjjmum0294]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:25 PM, ChiefMateJRK said:

I think that the hard working crew deserves a raise.

At NCL’s expense not ours! Gotta specify! 

[Anjjmum0294]

3 hours ago, The Traveling Man said:

But recently they HAVE been reducing services.  Stateroom attendants today are assigned almost twice as many rooms as they were a few years ago.  First they cut out the towel animals.  Now NCL only provides room cleaning once per day with no turndown service.  With more rooms to clean, your attendant may not get around to your room until mid-afternoon.  The laundry bag you left in your room before 9:00 may not be picked up until late afternoon, meaning you won’t get it back the following day as promised.  Meal service, especially in the MDR, may be considerably slower than it used to be.  The theater may be dark several nights during your cruise because they have cut back on entertainment.  Some of the shows and lounge acts which they do have may not be worth your time because they aren’t paying enough to attract the best talent.  We experienced each of these on the Sky earlier this month.  YMMV.

Just got off the rock boat. Which is used to be a Sister Hazel production simply renting an NCL vessel. Well NCL bought them and what a mess. SH used to care about their customers pre-buyout. Now they do the minimum to get by and the staff was angry or apathetic most of the time. I was looking forward to a genuine cruise to Bermuda but I canceled it. NCL was my go to but I’m going to try Royal. 

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, wcook said:

It matters to me because it’s a deceptive practice that forces me to work to understand the cost of a product I’m buying. End of the world? No. But it needs to die. 

 

It's not deceptive, it's stated quite clearly in paragraph 3.(c) on page 2 of the Guest Ticket Contract you agreed to abide by:

 

https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket Contract_US_EN_02_2023.pdf

"(c) Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge, which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, acknowledges and rewards service provided in all departments and job categories. A portion of the service charge collected is used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs."

 

It's also clearly stated in the FAQs on ncl.com on this page:

https://www.ncl.com/faq#!#what-is-onboard-service-charge

 

 

It's your obligation to read and understand a contract you've agreed to.

Since virtually every cruise line with the exception of some smaller luxury lines does the same as NCL...meaning millions of US cruise passengers every year are assessed on board service charges or gratuities in addition to their fare do you not understand that if the practice were deceptive the attorney general's office in one or more states would have long ago pursued deceptive business practice cases against some or all those cruise lines?

 

 

[njhorseman]

56 minutes ago, Anjjmum0294 said:

At NCL’s expense not ours! Gotta specify! 

The ultimate consumer of any product or service pays for everything. There's no such thing as "At NCL's expense". It's a simple economic and business fact of life.

If NCL raises employee salaries the money comes from the passengers.