Jones Act

[sadtosas]

A placed a 24 hr hold on back to back cruise departing LA to Vancouver and continuing to Alaska with a stop in Victoria and ending in Seattle. When I called to purchase the cruise, I was informed I could not get the back to back because of the Jones Act. I could not depart from a US port and return to a US port. I could return to the port of LA wish the cruise does not do.

Has anyone experienced this?

[broberts]

You have posted in the wrong forum. But to answer your query, it's not the Jones Act which deals with shipping, it's the Passenger Vessel Services Act that would be violated. That act does not allow foreign flagged vessels to transport passengers between two US ports. 

 

The problem you have encountered has been raised before. A search of the boards will turn up a number of threads.

 

I don't believe there is a work around.

 

A good summary of the PVSA can be found at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886.

[Host Kat]

3 hours ago, sadtosas said:

A placed a 24 hr hold on back to back cruise departing LA to Vancouver and continuing to Alaska with a stop in Victoria and ending in Seattle. When I called to purchase the cruise, I was informed I could not get the back to back because of the Jones Act. I could not depart from a US port and return to a US port. I could return to the port of LA wish the cruise does not do.

Has anyone experienced this?

 

Howdy @sadtosas, welcome to Cruise Critic and the message boards!

 

Thank you for your new topic on the Need Help Using the Forums? Check Here! forum! However, your thread was off topic there. That forum is for technical assistance in using these message boards.

 

To help you out I have moved your thread to the Ask a Cruise Question forum where it will be on topic. It is the forum for general questions about cruising. If your question was about a specific cruise line, port of call, etc., your new topic would have been moved to the appropriate forum. Browse through the thread titles on this forum looking for threads of interest. You will probably find your fellow Cruise Critic members have already posted questions and received answers that may be of interest to you.

 

BTW, uninformed cruise line reps & travel agents often say Jones Act when it is actually the PVSA. You are not alone in being told the wrong name.

 

The Cruise Critic website and message boards are a great resource for new as well as experienced cruisers and we are so glad you found us! Please feel free to browse the Cruise Critic Community categories list for the various message board forums. Read a few threads in the different forums to get a feel for what each forum is about. Make sure you read any pinned threads (aka Stickies) on the top of the first page of threads in most forums. You will find very important instructions or information there.

 

I sincerely hope this will be helpful to someone new to posting on our message boards. We are glad to have you aboard Cruise Critic! 

 

Happy sails,

 

Host Kat 

 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

You have posted in the wrong forum. But to answer your query, it's not the Jones Act which deals with shipping, it's the Passenger Vessel Services Act that would be violated. That act does not allow foreign flagged vessels to transport passengers between two US ports. 

 

The problem you have encountered has been raised before. A search of the boards will turn up a number of threads.

 

I don't believe there is a work around.

 

A good summary of the PVSA can be found at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886.

 

The PVSA permits foreign-flagged vessels to transport passengers between two different US ports if the ship makes a port call at a distant foreign port. However on a West Coast/Canada/Alaska itinerary such as this, the nearest distant foreign port is thousands of miles away so it's not possible to construct such an itinerary for a relatively short cruise.

For East Coast cruises since Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao qualify as distant foreign ports it's relatively easy to construct a PVSA-compliant moderate length itinerary that would allow cruises between such ports as Miami and New Orleans, as one example.

[klfrodo]

You can't do this as a B2B.

What you could do is take the LA to Vancouver, board a different ship, then continue on your trip. Just can't do this on the same ship.

[Ashland]

40 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

You can't do this as a B2B.

What you could do is take the LA to Vancouver, board a different ship, then continue on your trip. Just can't do this on the same ship.

Just to add a bit of detail...it can be the same cruise line just not the same ship.

[XBGuy]

Yes, @sadtosas, for administration of the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA), the overseers (I'm not sure whose job it is to monitor the cruise industry.) view your B2B plan as one continuous voyage from Los Angeles to Seattle.  As you now know, the PVSA requires that passenger vessels that are not U.S. flagged traveling between two U.S. ports must make a stop at a distant foreign port.

 

I learned about the PVSA when, similar to your attempt, I booked back-to-back cruises that started in Seattle and ended in Los Angeles.  I actually called my Personal Cruise Consultant at Princess to do this.  The next day she called me back, and advised that this itinerary was not allowed.  I spent the next couple days decoding the PVSA and came to an understanding of why my clever plan would not work.

 

While you cannot take your preferred routing you might consider these options.

 

A previous poster has already advised that if you leave your ship and continue on a different ship, you will be OK.  You might even consider spending a night, or so, in Vancouver.  I think it is a terrific city.

 

You might consider finding transportation from Vancouver to Seattle and book a roundtrip Alaska cruise out of Seattle.

 

My coffee shop buddy has booked this B2B itinerary for this spring.  So, I know this is OK.  He is taking the Los Angeles-Vancouver cruise, and, then, staying onboard for a roundtrip Alaska cruise that returns to Vancouver.  He will then fly back to Los Angeles.

 

I know your frustration, @sadtosas.  Many of us have been there.  We now understand that we have to work around the PVSA.

[chengkp75]

25 minutes ago, XBGuy said:

(I'm not sure whose job it is to monitor the cruise industry.)

Enforcement of the PVSA (and Jones Act) falls to CBP.

[thistledoo]

I have read the article on the PVSA buf am still a little confused regarding a planned B2B2B which starts with a round trip Alaskan cruise from Vancouver, followed by Vancouver to San Francisco with a stopover in Victoria.  The last leg is a repositioning across the Pacific  from San Francisco, including stops in Hawaii.

 

I am seeking clarification this B2B2B will not be in violation of any US maritime laws.

 

Thanks.

 

[jollyjones]

You are starting in Vancouver, a non-US port, and going to San Francisco in the first instance.

This is legal as you are not going from one US port to another, the PVSA does not apply.

Port stops in Hawaii don't matter, it's where you embark and disembark that matter. And since you embarked in Canada, I don't think it matters where you disembark, the PVSA doesn't apply.

[chengkp75]

This is correct.  Since the combined cruise is Vancouver to Hawaii, on the same ship, it is considered to be a cruise that starts in a foreign country, and therefore outside the jurisdiction of the PVSA. I am assuming it is the same ship, and there are no breaks in the voyage (i.e. days off between legs).  Though reading the OP's post again, it sounds like the final leg goes beyond Hawaii, which then makes it a cruise both beginning and ending in foreign countries, so definitely outside the PVSA.

[sanger727]

All that matters to the PVSA is where YOU ultimately board and where YOU ultimately disembark. When you do b2b on one ship it’s considered one cruise. As long as you board or disembark outside the US, no issues.