I couldn’t believe the story about NCL

[davencl]

55 minutes ago, Panhandle Couple said:

Were some of the posts here deleted?

Seems like I saw some from the article writer, responding to a few of us, and now they are not here?

 

 

 

 

You're correct.  Someone new did make a couple of posts claiming to be the article writer.  Noticed they were new to CC.  Perhaps there was something amiss with their CC initial registration.  Now we have a whole new topic to discuss after the many email retraction posts...

[Happycrafter123]

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

 

well, we don't know how many people it's happening to... we simply don't know if that is the case. 

 

we do know that it apparently was happening often enough to one TA's customers, that the TA felt compelled to warn people about the practice in their confirmation notes.

 

i doubt it's happening to thousands of people because i personally don't believe a large number of people are using the app to order things pre-cruise. and that's because the app provides a poor user experience, both onboard and offshore, but especially offshore before your cruise. it lacks essential functionality. also, there are only 2K - 4K passengers on every cruise, so it would really be something if this was happening to thousands of passengers fleet wide. dozens might be more like it.

 

assuming it is app related, it may be related to a recent app update. if so, the first reports of a problem have to start trickling in from somewhere. the average cruise ship passenger does not participate in online forums. this one went the consumer advocacy route.

 

the number of affected customers is largely irrelevant and can actually be used to explain why NCL has been so slow to act... to fix this, if indeed it's a verifiable reproducible error/glitch. from their IT infrastructure perspective, it's not a big deal because it is only affecting a handful of customers.

 

up to now.

 

 

we are hearing about it!

 

this entire five page thread is devoted to discussing it!

I think you are underestimating use of the app. I have done all my cruise booking and trip bookings for this and other vacations for at least the past 5 years on only my cel phone.  Most people I know do everything like this on their phone, why would you dig out a computer unnecessarily?  Maybe this is a generational thing…..but NCL should be making it safe to the consumer to use the tools they provide, like the app.   
if this is indeed how it is for them I will not be booking more cruises with them that is for sure as I don’t want to be scared of exploring the options and making online purchases for things like excursions online.  For now I’m in morbid fear of messing up my reservations.

[SeaShark]

18 minutes ago, davencl said:

You're correct.  Someone new did make a couple of posts claiming to be the article writer.  Noticed they were new to CC.  Perhaps there was something amiss with their CC initial registration.  Now we have a whole new topic to discuss after the many email retraction posts...

 

I feel certain that if the poster was, in fact, the article writer, that they can put their conflict resolution skills to work on their on behalf and have their posts reinstated.

 

3 minutes ago, Happycrafter123 said:

I think you are underestimating use of the app. I have done all my cruise booking and trip bookings for this and other vacations for at least the past 5 years on only my cel phone.  Most people I know do everything like this on their phone, why would you dig out a computer unnecessarily?  Maybe this is a generational thing…..but NCL should be making it safe to the consumer to use the tools they provide, like the app.   
if this is indeed how it is for them I will not be booking more cruises with them that is for sure as I don’t want to be scared of exploring the options and making online purchases for things like excursions online.  For now I’m in morbid fear of messing up my reservations.

 

Not sure if I'd be comfortable saying that there is an issue with the app. How can we know for sure that the issue wasn't caused by the user? And given that you've personally done all of your cruise and other trip bookings on your cell phone for 5 years, why would you let one person's issue place you in "morbid fear"? Isn't that just a tad dramatic? 

[Happycrafter123]

@SeaShark yes maybe it is an overreaction but when I book a Disney vacation or a ski holiday with Vail I have no fear that they will provide the services I paid for, or provide restitution.  I normally deal with high quality companies that I have confidence in.  The news we are hearing of these situations with NCL causes one to be scared of losing a lot of money over a simple oopsie.  That is not normal.

[SeaShark]

3 minutes ago, Happycrafter123 said:

@SeaShark yes maybe it is an overreaction but when I book a Disney vacation or a ski holiday with Vail I have no fear that they will provide the services I paid for, or provide restitution.  I normally deal with high quality companies that I have confidence in.  The news we are hearing of these situations with NCL causes one to be scared of losing a lot of money over a simple oopsie.  That is not normal.

 

And given that we really have no factual verifiable information on exactly how this occurred, it is a stretch to think that it might be a "simple oopsie". I have to suspect there is something we haven't been told.

 

As a cell phone booker with 5 years of experience, how many issues have YOU run into over a "simple oopsie"? 

[kevink]

I think it doesn't matter to me if this was an app glitch or a web glitch or a user error.

 

The fact is that nonpayment of a $112 charge made after the cruise was paid in full and after final payment, should result simply in the cancellation of the unpaid transfer.  It's almost inconceivable to me that NCL customer service didn't resolve this within 15 minutes of the first call.  

 

If this stands, a lot of people will be washing their hands of doing any future business with NCL.  A company that will rob one customer of their cruise fare may well do it to others, so why risk it?

 

-- Kevin

 

 

[zgscl]

Below is the full text from the TA email they sent. Apparently some items like transfers are considered an "invoice item" and these will trigger auto cancel. Other items are an "amenity item" and will not cancel trigger the auto cancel. Why they expect the general public to have an understanding of this is beyond me - if you don't checkout and pay for the item it should be dropped off of your cart. Furthermore if you immediately notice and call back there should be someone who can reinstate it.

 

 

 

INFORMATION

The auto-cancel process is enabled for all North America NCL Direct and Trade agencies. It applies to booked (BK) reservations with a balance (net due) owed of $1 or more, based on the final payment due date (120 days from the sail date). If an invoice item is added to a reservation inside the final payment and the payment is not immediately collected or is declined when the item is added, the reservation will automatically cancel. Invoice items that do and do not trigger the auto-cancelation process are listed below.

Additionally, if an amenity item is added to a reservation and the payment is not immediately collected or is declined at the time the item is added, the amenity will automatically be removed from the reservation. A list of applicable amenities that will cancel from the reservation if the payment is not collected can be found in NCL Help’s “Amenity and Gift Orders” article.

If you have any questions, please contact your sales manager.

Below are some of the invoice items that cause automatic cancelations. Please note that the triggers are not limited to the following items:
 

• Air that was not originally added to the reservation
• Essential Travel Protection
• Ground transfers
• Land items, such as pre and post hotels and cruisetours

The below invoice items do not trigger the auto-cancelation process:

• Amenity
• Beverage service charge
• Penalty charges
• Dining
• Dining service charge
• Entertainment
• FAS+ upgrade
• Pre-book Spa/Thermal Suite Pass
• Pre-paid service charges
• Priority Access Package
• Shore Excursion
• Shore Excursion Get Tax
• Soda Service Charge
• Spa
• Spa Service Fee
• Streaming Wi-Fi
• Travel With promo code: TWITH
• Upsell Beverage
• Upsell DIN (dining)
• Upsell Wi-fi
• Vibe
• Valet promo code: Valet & ValetAdd
• Visa Fee

[zgscl]

3 minutes ago, kevink said:

I think it doesn't matter to me if this was an app glitch or a web glitch or a user error.

 

The fact is that nonpayment of a $112 charge made after the cruise was paid in full and after final payment, should result simply in the cancellation of the unpaid transfer.  It's almost inconceivable to me that NCL customer service didn't resolve this within 15 minutes of the first call.  

 

If this stands, a lot of people will be washing their hands of doing any future business with NCL.  A company that will rob one customer of their cruise fare may well do it to others, so why risk it?

 

-- Kevin

 

 

If everything happened as it has been reported this is a very poor policy and I think this type of thing will hurt them in the long run. It would cost them absolutely nothing to reinstate the reservation. The customer will probably spend money onboard. 21 days out they probably won't even fill the cabin. 

 

I totally agree, there are a lot of choices in cruising. I don't know of any other company that is as inflexible and unfriendly to customers with their policies. Every company has mistakes happen, customer service failures, etc. Every company has done cost cutting after the pandemic. But NCL appears to be unabashed and happy to do this to their customers. 

[PATRLR]

12 hours ago, davencl said:

In my case there is NO way they can recall email's from me.  My local email program downloads the email then deletes it from the server.   No way for any system to recall from me.

If your client is offline or for any reason can not communicate with your server, it is possible that your e-mails can be recalled.

12 hours ago, julig22 said:

However, imagine if the policy was different. Passenger suddenly realizes that they can't go on their upcoming cruise or wants to switch dates.  Hah!! Just add something to the cruise, don't pay and NCL cancels and gives a refund or FCC.  Nice loophole!

That would be an equally broken/bad policy.  The policy should be that if you add ground transfers and they aren't immediately paid, the ground transfers are canceled, not the entire cruise.

[PATRLR]

2 hours ago, zgscl said:

Below is the full text from the TA email they sent. Apparently some items like transfers are considered an "invoice item" and these will trigger auto cancel. Other items are an "amenity item" and will not cancel trigger the auto cancel. Why they expect the general public to have an understanding of this is beyond me - if you don't checkout and pay for the item it should be dropped off of your cart. Furthermore if you immediately notice and call back there should be someone who can reinstate it.

 

 

 

INFORMATION

The auto-cancel process is enabled for all North America NCL Direct and Trade agencies. It applies to booked (BK) reservations with a balance (net due) owed of $1 or more, based on the final payment due date (120 days from the sail date). If an invoice item is added to a reservation inside the final payment and the payment is not immediately collected or is declined when the item is added, the reservation will automatically cancel. Invoice items that do and do not trigger the auto-cancelation process are listed below.

Additionally, if an amenity item is added to a reservation and the payment is not immediately collected or is declined at the time the item is added, the amenity will automatically be removed from the reservation. A list of applicable amenities that will cancel from the reservation if the payment is not collected can be found in NCL Help’s “Amenity and Gift Orders” article.

If you have any questions, please contact your sales manager.

Below are some of the invoice items that cause automatic cancelations. Please note that the triggers are not limited to the following items:
 

• Air that was not originally added to the reservation
• Essential Travel Protection
• Ground transfers
• Land items, such as pre and post hotels and cruisetours

 

IMO, that is simply an awful, awful policy.

Do any of our local NCL apologists care to explain or justify the policy of canceling the entire cruise vs canceling only the unpaid added-on portion?

[KateQ22003]

OK, so I admit I am late to the game, but it appears they had only made one payment of $400+? Where does the $5,000 come from? It appears to me they weren't paying on this cruise after the initial deposit and first payment; am I missing something?

[hawkeyetlse]

1 hour ago, KateQ22003 said:

OK, so I admit I am late to the game, but it appears they had only made one payment of $400+? Where does the $5,000 come from? It appears to me they weren't paying on this cruise after the initial deposit and first payment; am I missing something?

They used a financing program called "Uplift". So the full amount was paid to NCL before sailing, but they were (and are still) responsible for continuing to make payments to Uplift until the debt is cleared.

Edited March 24, 2023 by hawkeyetlse

[hawkeyetlse]

6 hours ago, zgscl said:

Below is the full text from the TA email they sent. Apparently some items like transfers are considered an "invoice item" and these will trigger auto cancel. Other items are an "amenity item" and will not cancel trigger the auto cancel. Why they expect the general public to have an understanding of this is beyond me - if you don't checkout and pay for the item it should be dropped off of your cart. Furthermore if you immediately notice and call back there should be someone who can reinstate it.

 

 

 

INFORMATION

The auto-cancel process is enabled for all North America NCL Direct and Trade agencies. It applies to booked (BK) reservations with a balance (net due) owed of $1 or more, based on the final payment due date (120 days from the sail date). If an invoice item is added to a reservation inside the final payment and the payment is not immediately collected or is declined when the item is added, the reservation will automatically cancel. Invoice items that do and do not trigger the auto-cancelation process are listed below.

Additionally, if an amenity item is added to a reservation and the payment is not immediately collected or is declined at the time the item is added, the amenity will automatically be removed from the reservation. A list of applicable amenities that will cancel from the reservation if the payment is not collected can be found in NCL Help’s “Amenity and Gift Orders” article.

If you have any questions, please contact your sales manager.

Below are some of the invoice items that cause automatic cancelations. Please note that the triggers are not limited to the following items:
 

• Air that was not originally added to the reservation
• Essential Travel Protection
• Ground transfers
• Land items, such as pre and post hotels and cruisetours

The below invoice items do not trigger the auto-cancelation process:

• Amenity
• Beverage service charge
• Penalty charges
• Dining
• Dining service charge
• Entertainment
• FAS+ upgrade
• Pre-book Spa/Thermal Suite Pass
• Pre-paid service charges
• Priority Access Package
• Shore Excursion
• Shore Excursion Get Tax
• Soda Service Charge
• Spa
• Spa Service Fee
• Streaming Wi-Fi
• Travel With promo code: TWITH
• Upsell Beverage
• Upsell DIN (dining)
• Upsell Wi-fi
• Vibe
• Valet promo code: Valet & ValetAdd
• Visa Fee

THANK YOU for this information! We only got dribs and drabs of this text from others with TA access up to now, but after 100+ messages we finally have NCL's full statement of policy!

 

And what a terrible policy it is! Both in its content and in the way customers are not made aware of it, unless they use a TA and that TA thinks of warning them.

[SeaShark]

7 hours ago, zgscl said:

Why they expect the general public to have an understanding of this is beyond me

 

There is actually a LOT of information that is not available to the general public. There are a LOT of things related to a booking that the general public just can't do. What is really puzzling is, given these facts, why the general public insists on being their own booking agent instead of allowing someone with the knowledge base (be it a TA or PCC)...who works for no cost to the guest...to handle the reservation. Had the OP's reservation been handled by a TA instead of by a distracted user with a cell phone, it is likely this would have not happened.

 

4 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Do any of our local NCL apologists care to explain or justify the policy of canceling the entire cruise vs canceling only the unpaid added-on portion?

 

NCL apologists? You could have said "Can anyone explain or justify the policy..." yet you choose the ad hominem attack. Why? Can you explain or justify the reason for the insult?

[Two Wheels Only]

9 hours ago, mking8288 said:

Affirmative, been reading & following posts over the past 36 hours on this matter without commenting - it is not a mind trick, a number of posts are gone, for whatever reasons.  

 

My post was deleted and I'm not sure why.

 

I didn't even take a side as I wasn't 100% sure as to what happened. It was "never in cart...was in cart but not checked out...added to reservation but not paid..." or somewhere in-between plus there was no paper trail and no saved PDFs.

 

It's a cautionary tale at this point. At the very least, everyone reading along knows to not get distracted while using the app....

 

 

[UKstages]

1 hour ago, hawkeyetlse said:

We only got dribs and drabs of this text from others with TA access up to now, but after 100+ messages we finally have NCL's full statement of policy!

 

sort of.

 

what we appear to have is a communication to travel agents. it may indeed be their policy, but if they don't communicate key aspects of their "policy" to their customers, those likely to be affected by their "policy," do they really have a "policy" or do they just have a lot of gobbledegook they can impose at will, when it suits their interests or when their customer support mechanisms don't work as intended?

 

12 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Had the OP's reservation been handled by a TA instead of by a distracted user with a cell phone, it is likely this would have not happened.

 

perhaps.

 

but NCL makes no distinction between money that comes from distracted cell phone users and money that comes from dedicated and devoted experienced cruisers who participate in online forums. (there's likely an intersection of those two groups, by the way.) in any case, the onus should be on the customer only if the customer has been sufficiently warned/advised. that doesn't appear to have been the case here. did the customer dismiss a warning that says your reservation is about to be canceled? it appears as if the app doesn't have that functionality built into it. it appears as if the app either didn't work properly for all its intended uses or it wasn't designed in such a way so as to provide sufficient warning(s) of the cancellation. that's on NCL, not the customer.

[Karaboudjan]

1 hour ago, hawkeyetlse said:

THANK YOU for this information! We only got dribs and drabs of this text from others with TA access up to now, but after 100+ messages we finally have NCL's full statement of policy!

 

And what a terrible policy it is! Both in its content and in the way customers are not made aware of it, unless they use a TA and that TA thinks of warning them.

 

So given that this seems like such a terrible policy is it not reasonable to think that there is some very good reason why it exists and is enforced in at least some cases?

[SeaShark]

1 minute ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

So given that this seems like such a terrible policy is it not reasonable to think that there is some very good reason why it exists and is enforced in at least some cases?

 

Of course that would be reasonable, but this is CC...the opportunity to bash supersedes any need to be reasonable when conclusions must be jumped to.

[RocketMan275]

13 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

I'm not normally a nervous type, but this report has me a bit concerned.  I have a cruise coming up in a couple of weeks and have not yet paid the DSC (I'll save $4 pp per day to pay in advance).  Should I call NCL to make the payment instead of paying it online?

I paid mine online with no issues.

[UKstages]

1 minute ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

So given that this seems like such a terrible policy is it not reasonable to think that there is some very good reason why it exists and is enforced in at least some cases?

 

yes.

 

it's written and intended to penalize those who don't pay in full to secure their reservation. their reservations get canceled.

 

but it's clear the NCL team either didn't consider all the ramifications or didn't consider all use cases or how the rules would be applied under (not so) extraordinary circumstances. or their app developers simply do sloppy work and the app can't handle the same functions as the website and NCL's internal systems.

 

i have no concern about the policy. it's their right to cancel unpaid reservations. but it appears that they haven't built an IT infrastructure capable of discerning the difference between a reservation paid in full and a reservation paid in full that has something added to it - possibly tentaively - within a cancellation window.

[Karaboudjan]

2 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

yes.

 

it's written and intended to penalize those who don't pay in full to secure their reservation. their reservations get canceled.

 

but it's clear the NCL team either didn't consider all the ramifications or didn't consider all use cases or how the rules would be applied under (not so) extraordinary circumstances. or their app developers simply do sloppy work and the app can't handle the same functions as the website and NCL's internal systems.

 

i have no concern about the policy. it's their right to cancel unpaid reservations. but it appears that they haven't built an IT infrastructure capable of discerning the difference between a reservation paid in full and a reservation paid in full that has something added to it - possibly tentaively - within a cancellation window.

 

Yes, but I don't think the issue here is so much how this could happen as it is NCL's response.  If this was an extraordinary circumstance that NCL did not consider why did they not reinstate the reservation or at least offer FCC to the passenger?  I believe that at least one person reported having a similar issue that NCL remedied, so why did they allegedly not do something here?  

[SeaShark]

8 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

Yes, but I don't think the issue here is so much how this could happen as it is NCL's response.  If this was an extraordinary circumstance that NCL did not consider why did they not reinstate the reservation or at least offer FCC to the passenger?  I believe that at least one person reported having a similar issue that NCL remedied, so why did they allegedly not do something here?  

 

And herein lies the problem...how do you craft a consistent policy? You call this an extraordinary circumstance...so what would be an extraordinary circumstance and what would not be? Where is the line drawn, and how do you then handle those "just" on the wrong side of the line that will eventually whine about the unfairness of their situation?

 

Heck, if NCL just started giving FCC to everyone where this happens, then if you ever need to cancel a reservation, you could just add some transfers to your cart, not pay for them, and then you'd get your FCC after the automatic cancellation. Would be a nice way to game the system, no?

[UKstages]

5 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

Yes, but I don't think the issue here is so much how this could happen as it is NCL's response.  If this was an extraordinary circumstance that NCL did not consider why did they not reinstate the reservation or at least offer FCC to the passenger?  I believe that at least one person reported having a similar issue that NCL remedied, so why did they allegedly not do something here?  

 

• because they haven't prioritized this as a problem because it - up to now - is a situation that has occurred only a relatively small number of times

• because their IT team doesn't speak regularly to their marketing, sales or customer resolution teams

• because they have poor user testing and few who work in IT or customer resolution make mock bookings in the app

• because they have written internal policies that frontline personnel are not empowered to override (or even reconsider or reinterpret), when confronted by unique circumstances not specifically covered in the policy

• because they don't have a strong internal escalation process for problem resolution

• because they lack imagination and foresight

[Oldsweets]

12 hours ago, Panhandle Couple said:

 

My thoughts exactly.

Not to be down on the traveler here, but there are still some things very unsettled in the whole story.

 

It appears the original reservation was made well after the 120 day point, probably at the 40 to 30 days out period.  At that point, everything needs to be paid for when ordering.

 

And at that the point, the traveler is CHECKED IN.  (or should be.)  That means e-docs are available for download.  In fact NCL encourages you to download e-docs. (yes it seems many still don't, causing longer times in the cruise terminal).  NCL can't be responsible for a traveler NOT getting their e-docs.  So while the story makes it sound like NCL is being mean by keeping cruise verification from the traveler, it is the travelers responsibility to actually get it.

 

The traveler obviously used the main NCL web site for purchasing the cruise.  Why would they use the app for the extras?  I pointed out (page 2) that transfers is not in the same section as on board extras, like shore excursions.  The amount of info needed is far greater.  The traveler claiming they "were just checking it out" for transfers should have realized, that less than 21 days out, they were actually purchasing them.  And how did the traveler think they were getting from Orlando to Canaveral, a 60 minute drive when they originally made the reservation? 

 

(As a reference, 5 cruises post COVID.  Not once has NCL asked me to buy a port transfer.  We have never used NCL Air, so maybe travelers are asked that if using that approach.  Can anyone verify yes-no on that?)

 

And that leads to the next question:  If traveler did fill out the required info for a transfer, why was payment denied?  Honest input mistake?  Bad credit? Make your own choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldsweets]

Let’s say that things folks are writing about the customer are true, what if they had bad credit, customer error, late booking, etc.  I submit that for me that cancelation or even  written NCL policy (which we NOW KNOW about) could or will result in cancelation of a fully paid cruise for non payment of a transfer is simply rigging the system and wrong.  If this policy is indeed true and stays in place it’s reason enough to avoid.  What other high risk hard to find policy’s are lurking to steal your money.  For now I have been warned until new information is presented. 
 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Oldsweets