birth certificate thread #978345

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

https://www.carnival.com/help?topicid=3409

 

Birth Certificate Information

The following are acceptable:

• An original or copy of a birth certificate issued by a government agency (state/county/city) or the Department of Health and Vital Statistics
• A clear, legible copy (photocopy) of a birth certificate that was originally issued by a government agency (state/county/city) or the Department of Health and Vital Statistics. The copy does not need to be notarized or certified.
• Birth Certificate Card
• A Consular report of Birth Abroad
• Internationally adopted children (under the age of 18): If the adoptive parent was not issued a birth certificate, we will accept as proof of citizenship, a Certificate of Citizenship by the U.S. and adoption paperwork. A Certificate of Citizenship is issued by the U.S. once the adoption is finalized.
• Guests may obtain a copy of a birth certificate by contacting: The Department of Health and Vital Statistics at: www.vitalchek.com. If the guest has laminated their birth certificate, it is acceptable.

 

Birth certificates from Puerto Rico issued prior to July 1, 2010 are not valid forms of proof of citizenship and are not accepted by U.S. Customs and Border Protection. Guests from Puerto Rico either need to present a WHTI-compliant document or a government-issued photo I.D. with a validated birth certificate issued after July 1, 2010.

 

AND

 

Photo Identification

A non-expired government-issued photo I.D. is required of all guests 16 years of age and older. The following are acceptable:

• Driver's License (a temporary Driver's License with photo is acceptable)
• Driver's Permit
• School/Student I.D. (acceptable for guests 16/17/18 years of age)
• Government-issued identification card including a U.S. Military I.D. with photo (city/state/federal)
• Government-issued Trusted Traveler Program Membership Card (NEXUS/SENTRI/FAST) - for photo identification use only

[sparks1093]

7 hours ago, zorky12 said:

Daughter is cruising in a few weeks. She is taking a friend that doesn’t have a passport. Her friend does have her original birth certificate. It’s blue with her details on it with seal. Is this ok or does she need like a certified paper  one that has a notary stamp on it? 

As long as it is issued by a government entity (and it sounds like it is) then it is acceptable.

[runner15km]

You may want to get a notarized letter from both parents giving permission for the child to sail and to be medically treated. 

[dallasdan]

When my kids were younger I always brought along a letter authorizing them to sail with us and a medical power of attorney.  I was never asked to show the letter authorizing them to sail, and thank God I never needed the power of attorney.  however, I had piece of mind just in case I needed the documents.

[ldubs]

On 4/25/2023 at 4:44 AM, sparks1093 said:

If it is clear, readable and matching then it meets Carnival's specific instructions. Having not seen the document in question @Ferry_Watcher added a prudent "most likely be accepted" caveat to prevent the backlash should it not be accepted for a reason not obvious. The goal of every check in agent is to get every passenger onboard, as is the goal of the cruise line. They will do everything in their power to do that, but they can't accept anything that ultimately isn't accepted by CBP.

 

On 4/25/2023 at 4:46 AM, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

Because who can really make an absolute definitive statement about whether or not a particular document would be accepted until someone actually looks at the document - especially in this scenario where we are discussing a photocopy, and not an original.

 

For example, if we have someone show up for their closed loop cruise without the required citizenship documents, and if they are US born passengers, we give them the opportunity to contact someone at home to find the passenger's birth certificate, take a photo and electronically send it to the pier.  But the copy has to be readable, and the entire document (all 4 corners) has to be in the photo.

 

Thanks.  Considering the pretty clear-cut attachment in post #6 it seemed like a lot of waffling.  But I did read later about potential problems with name changes.  That had not occurred to me even though it would be very common.  

[lcpagejr]

9 hours ago, dallasdan said:

When my kids were younger I always brought along a letter authorizing them to sail with us and a medical power of attorney.  I was never asked to show the letter authorizing them to sail, and thank God I never needed the power of attorney.  however, I had piece of mind just in case I needed the documents.

If they were your kids and both you and your wife were on cruise....whats the purpose of letter???? You wouldn't need it

[sparks1093]

12 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

Thanks.  Considering the pretty clear-cut attachment in post #6 it seemed like a lot of waffling.  But I did read later about potential problems with name changes.  That had not occurred to me even though it would be very common.  

Actually post 36 was posted after our remarks, and the OP themselves said that the document had legibility issues. There are some "ifs" involved and as long as the "ifs" line up there is no need for waffling of any sort. If the passenger presents a legible copy of a government issued birth certificate and if they have a valid government issued ID and if they are on a closed loop cruise then they should have no issues checking in. But as always the devil can be in the details. What is legible to one person may not be legible to another (and if it isn't legible to the personnel in the terminal checking you in it could be an issue). It's not discussed often but it is included in the FAQ that has been quoted that Puerto Rican birth certificates issued prior to July 1, 2010 are invalid and can't be used. So I know that I try to be as clear as I can be in my answers but I do leave room for the "what ifs" when I can.

 

 

[dallasdan]

13 hours ago, lcpagejr said:

If they were your kids and both you and your wife were on cruise....whats the purpose of letter???? You wouldn't need it

I meant when my kids were younger and we brought along one of their friends.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Actually post 36 was posted after our remarks, and the OP themselves said that the document had legibility issues. There are some "ifs" involved and as long as the "ifs" line up there is no need for waffling of any sort. If the passenger presents a legible copy of a government issued birth certificate and if they have a valid government issued ID and if they are on a closed loop cruise then they should have no issues checking in. But as always the devil can be in the details. What is legible to one person may not be legible to another (and if it isn't legible to the personnel in the terminal checking you in it could be an issue). It's not discussed often but it is included in the FAQ that has been quoted that Puerto Rican birth certificates issued prior to July 1, 2010 are invalid and can't be used. So I know that I try to be as clear as I can be in my answers but I do leave room for the "what ifs" when I can.

 

 

 

I saw that too.  Makes sense and thanks!  

[Purvis1231]

On 4/25/2023 at 8:59 PM, zorky12 said:

Daughter is cruising in a few weeks. She is taking a friend that doesn’t have a passport. Her friend does have her original birth certificate. It’s blue with her details on it with seal. Is this ok or does she need like a certified paper  one that has a notary stamp on it? 

birth certificates do not have to be notarized. Some states have embossed seals others do not. Make sure it is a real state-issued official birth certificate.

[jsglow]

@Ferry_Watcher and @starstruck05, I'd like your thoughts on something. Next year we'll almost certainly embark on a closed loop cruise during the dreaded 10-13 week gap while our Passports are being renewed. Our plan for that single voyage is to travel using RealID DLs and accompanying BC copies.  Mine's easy; I was born in Wisconsin and all the info matches my DL. You see that every single day.  

 

My wife's situation is a bit more complicated in that she is an American born in Nuremberg Germany, the daughter of an American US Army officer deployed there and his American wife.  She has 3 separate documents that worked to facilitate our Marriage license as well as all her US Passports and Global Entry. Among these are an actual German BC (written in German; it's cool) and two (2) American documents: something called 'Report of Child Born Abroad of American Parents' that shows her parents US birth place and is 'certified' by the signature of 2 military officers including the attending army doctor PLUS her all important Consular Service State Department Certificate of Birth that was formally issued approximately 18 months after her birth.  All are in outstanding condition, are perfectly legible in every way, and 100% consistent in their documentation.  As indicated, it was these three documents that were historically provided to the State Department to facilitate her US Passport; never an issue/problem.

 

What I recall from 35+ years ago when we were getting our Marriage License was that obtaining the raised seal Consular document was no easy task. Our strong preference is to be able to leave that Original tucked at home in the safe. Your comments on using absolutely perfect (and even in color) photocopies for the cruise are appreciated.  Oh, we'll bring our Marriage License too evidencing the name change. Truly, the paper trail couldn't be more buttoned up. (I'll even bring old punch holed US Passports if you think that'll help.)  

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, jsglow said:

@Ferry_Watcher and @starstruck05, I'd like your thoughts on something. Next year we'll almost certainly embark on a closed loop cruise during the dreaded 10-13 week gap while our Passports are being renewed. Our plan for that single voyage is to travel using RealID DLs and accompanying BC copies.  Mine's easy; I was born in Wisconsin and all the info matches my DL. You see that every single day.  

 

My wife's situation is a bit more complicated in that she is an American born in Nuremberg Germany, the daughter of an American US Army officer deployed there and his American wife.  She has 3 separate documents that worked to facilitate our Marriage license as well as all her US Passports and Global Entry. Among these are an actual German BC (written in German; it's cool) and two (2) American documents: something called 'Report of Child Born Abroad of American Parents' that shows her parents US birth place and is 'certified' by the signature of 2 military officers including the attending army doctor PLUS her all important Consular Service State Department Certificate of Birth that was formally issued approximately 18 months after her birth.  All are in outstanding condition, are perfectly legible in every way, and 100% consistent in their documentation.  As indicated, it was these three documents that were historically provided to the State Department to facilitate her US Passport; never an issue/problem.

 

What I recall from 35+ years ago when we were getting our Marriage License was that obtaining the raised seal Consular document was no easy task. Our strong preference is to be able to leave that Original tucked at home in the safe. Your comments on using absolutely perfect (and even in color) photocopies for the cruise are appreciated.  Oh, we'll bring our Marriage License too evidencing the name change. Truly, the paper trail couldn't be more buttoned up. (I'll even bring old punch holed US Passports if you think that'll help.)  

I can answer this- Consular Reports of Birth Abroad (and Naturalization Certificates) need to be the original, NOT a copy. My DW was also born in Germany and was adopted by a GI couple so she has a Naturalization Certificate, which we used several times for closed loop cruises. Then I found out how expensive they are to replace and we got a more durable form of ID for cruising until we eventually got our passports (the CRBA isn't as expensive to replace but it does cost and there is the hassle as well).

 

So all you need to bring is the CRBA and her government issued ID. If the CRBA has her picture (the Naturalization Certificate does) then you probably don't need the bridging document, but it can't hurt to bring it along (that can be a copy). Leave all of the other documents at home. (DW also has her original German birth certificate and it is one of things that resides in our safety deposit box.)

[jsglow]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I can answer this- Consular Reports of Birth Abroad (and Naturalization Certificates) need to be the original, NOT a copy. My DW was also born in Germany and was adopted by a GI couple so she has a Naturalization Certificate, which we used several times for closed loop cruises. Then I found out how expensive they are to replace and we got a more durable form of ID for cruising until we eventually got our passports (the CRBA isn't as expensive to replace but it does cost and there is the hassle as well).

 

So all you need to bring is the CRBA and her government issued ID. If the CRBA has her picture (the Naturalization Certificate does) then you probably don't need the bridging document, but it can't hurt to bring it along (that can be a copy). Leave all of the other documents at home. (DW also has her original German birth certificate and it is one of things that resides in our safety deposit box.)

THANK YOU so very much. My wife's Consular form does not have a picture.  Just to be on the safe side we will also bring our Marriage license to reflect the name change.  I remember how much work she and her parents had to go through to gather up her documents before we got married. She's actually going to undertake the laborious task of obtaining an updated CRBA so she'll have a spare.  I've found the web site and necessary form.  Apparently for documents this old a manual search of the Archives is required.

 

Again, thank you for your first hand knowledge.

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, jsglow said:

THANK YOU so very much. My wife's Consular form does not have a picture.  Just to be on the safe side we will also bring our Marriage license to reflect the name change.  I remember how much work she and her parents had to go through to gather up her documents before we got married. She's actually going to undertake the laborious task of obtaining an updated CRBA so she'll have a spare.  I've found the web site and necessary form.  Apparently for documents this old a manual search of the Archives is required.

 

Again, thank you for your first hand knowledge.

I know that for Naturalization Certificates you can only have one, no spares allowed. I thought the same thing applied to CRBAs but I haven't looked into that very much (the last time I looked they were $150).

[jsglow]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I know that for Naturalization Certificates you can only have one, no spares allowed. I thought the same thing applied to CRBAs but I haven't looked into that very much (the last time I looked they were $150).

CRBAs are $50 and a careful read of the travel.state.gov website seems to clearly indicate that obtaining a certified copy is routine (albeit slow) and customary. My wife's piece of paper is 60 years old.  I doubt they can even determine that she has one. No where does it ask if one's original is lost/misplaced.  It seems very analogous to getting a certified Birth Cert from Vital Records. Again, she's a native American so therein might lie the difference.  

 

An interesting factoid is that any record older than 1990 requires a hand search and takes 3-4 months. The request procedure is very well spelled out and makes absolute sense in terms of what you provide.  My guess is that her 'new' one might even contain her picture as one is required to submit front/back of her DL. She also submits her existing Passport info perhaps easing the process. Obviously the government thus knows she's legit as they have already previously affirmed that fact.

 

I'll try to remember to come back here and update many months from now.

[starstruck05]

5 hours ago, jsglow said:

CRBAs are $50 and a careful read of the travel.state.gov website seems to clearly indicate that obtaining a certified copy is routine (albeit slow) and customary. My wife's piece of paper is 60 years old.  I doubt they can even determine that she has one. No where does it ask if one's original is lost/misplaced.  It seems very analogous to getting a certified Birth Cert from Vital Records. Again, she's a native American so therein might lie the difference.  

 

An interesting factoid is that any record older than 1990 requires a hand search and takes 3-4 months. The request procedure is very well spelled out and makes absolute sense in terms of what you provide.  My guess is that her 'new' one might even contain her picture as one is required to submit front/back of her DL. She also submits her existing Passport info perhaps easing the process. Obviously the government thus knows she's legit as they have already previously affirmed that fact.

 

I'll try to remember to come back here and update many months from now.

I'm just seeing your post. I haven't dealt alot with CRBAs but what Sparks says sounds right and you can never have enough documentation. Ferry will have more updated info than I would. 

[Charles4515]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:39 PM, jsglow said:

Next year we'll almost certainly embark on a closed loop cruise during the dreaded 10-13 week gap while our Passports are being renewed.

If the cruise is next year you can't find a window of time before then to renew? You have that many trips stacked?

Edited May 10, 2023 by Charles4515

[jsglow]

28 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

If the cruise is next year you can't find a window of time before then to renew? You have that many trips stacked?

Nope. Our actual expiry is 2025 but we have a late '24 trip requiring the 6 month lead. #retirement 

[Charles4515]

23 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Nope. Our actual expiry is 2025 but we have a late '24 trip requiring the 6 month lead. #retirement 

You have plenty of time to renew. 

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

You have plenty of time to renew. 

It sounded to me like they were planning to renew but recognize the possibility that the passports might not return in time for the cruise, so they are getting their contingency plan in place. I could be wrong.

[jsglow]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

It sounded to me like they were planning to renew but recognize the possibility that the passports might not return in time for the cruise, so they are getting their contingency plan in place. I could be wrong.

Spot on.

[Ferry_Watcher]

On 5/8/2023 at 5:39 PM, jsglow said:

PLUS her all important Consular Service State Department Certificate of Birth that was formally issued approximately 18 months after her birth.

 

Sorry for the delay in responding - I was on a 9 day cruise.  As @sparks1093 mentioned, it needs to be the original Consular Report of Birth Abroad

[jsglow]

16 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

Sorry for the delay in responding - I was on a 9 day cruise.  As @sparks1093 mentioned, it needs to be the original Consular Report of Birth Abroad

TY @Ferry_Watcher. Hope you enjoyed your cruise. DW sent in her paperwork this past Monday for a new, fresh one.

[kelhag]

You can order a new birth certificate by using https://www.vitalchek.com/. It isn't the cheapest way, but you can order one from Texas, and they UPS or Fedex it to you.

 

[jsglow]

2 hours ago, kelhag said:

You can order a new birth certificate by using https://www.vitalchek.com/. It isn't the cheapest way, but you can order one from Texas, and they UPS or Fedex it to you.

 

Not sure if you were suggesting this to me; YES you can. Unfortunately that's not the case for a CRBA. We're fine.  Many months and only a contingency plan, as necessary.