If only it were only Nickles and dimes.

[Liljo22]

13 minutes ago, carohs said:

It's not nickel and diming, but rather a different price structure. NCL breaks out your fare into multiple components, and you have the option to opt out of SDP, FAS, or whatever you don't feel you need. At the end of the day, a cruiser should decide if they got the value out of it by comparing the all-in costs to cruise on NCL vs any other line. The value of things like food, drinks, and entertainment are of course subjective. Decide to cruise or not cruise on NCL but complaining about the price structure of the company seems rather pointless.

100% agree.  The drink and dining perk is important to me so I will usually compare the NCL price with the perks against other lines after I add their drink package.  Sometimes NCL is cheaper sometimes they are not.  My last two cruises have been on Royal and they actually were more expensive than NCL before I added their drink package which comes to about $600 per person.  

[The Traveling Man]

18 hours ago, corman-cruise said:

It's simple, With ncl you get free items/included 

free gratuities, means

you still pay a gratuity for the free drink package worth, 

you still pay gratuities on the free dinner package worth 

 

So yes, Nickle and dimes. When I sailed with princess or celebrity they did not charge you a fee/graditude for something that was included. 

 

I agree with you, and it is a bit off-putting to have to pay a bit here and a bit there to receive the whole package of benefits you expect.  OTOH, as @complawyer has stated, when you add up the total cost, including all the nickels and dimes, many passengers do seem to perceive a better cost / benefit ratio with NCL than other cruise lines.  My wife and I have taken about 40 cruises.  There's a reason that more than 30 of them have been with NCL - a perceived better value for the total price paid.

[cruiseny4life]

19 hours ago, corman-cruise said:

No big show productions, but the musicians are amazing.

If you're cruising for the shows, might I suggest you take your money and travel to NYC/West End for a week. Have the good food, stay in a nice room, and see the real shows. You can do that for the cost of a cruise. 

[OrangeCatRamblers]

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

If you're cruising for the shows, might I suggest you take your money and travel to NYC/West End for a week. Have the good food, stay in a nice room, and see the real shows. You can do that for the cost of a cruise. 

 

I always do that before sailing from NYC - best of both worlds!  If anyone is sailing from NYC this spring, absolutely do not miss New York, New York! 

[SeaShark]

1 hour ago, The Traveling Man said:

I agree with you, and it is a bit off-putting to have to pay a bit here and a bit there to receive the whole package of benefits you expect. 

 

Great that you mention this...."expect" is the key word here. A lot of time the problem isn't the offering, it is with unrealistic expectations.

[MoCruiseFan]

22 hours ago, corman-cruise said:

This is our first time on Norwegian. The encore is a beautiful ship but after sailing on Royal Carribean, celebrity, princess, oceana this cruise line is all about Nickle and diming you on everything. 

You get perks, wifi, free gratuities, specialized dinning, even purchased 2 additional days, got charged gratitude fee on top of the free perks and extra dinners. 

Upgraded to a premium alcohol package because my wife wanted better bottled water, yip you pay a gratuity charge on that. 

It seems like the service on board has decreased, nobody walking around the buffet offering orange juice, coffee or pastries. 

No big show productions, but the musicians are amazing. 

To me, it seems like we are getting less and paying alot. 

Not sure that I will ever sail with them again. 

So far, 7 out 10

So bartenders and wait staff do no deserve to be tipped simply becasue you got the drink or meal free?  They still have to serve you,  If you do not wnat to tip, somply turn down the free drinks and dining and you are all set,  If you wnat OJ, Coddee, or anything else, simply open your mouth and ask.  Paying for what you get is NOT nickel and diming....

 

[cruiseny4life]

1 hour ago, OrangeCatRamblers said:

 

I always do that before sailing from NYC - best of both worlds!  If anyone is sailing from NYC this spring, absolutely do not miss New York, New York! 

And that's an even better plan than the one I proposed! We live so close to NYC (four hours) that we just overnight there. I keep telling my husband we need to just take a week and spend it down there. We've both done all the "touristy" things and I've done quite a bit more since I have family in the city, but I really just want to experience a week in the city (not necessarily Manhattan). 

[dachengdao]

On 4/26/2023 at 5:40 PM, KeithJenner said:

 

In all those cruises I have never once seen anyone walking around the buffet offering orange juice, coffee and pastries.

 

We were on the Gem to Bermuda earlier this month and lo and behold! they brought around a tray of pastries one morning to the tables in the buffet and asked everyone to try the ensaymada, which is a Filipino cheese pastry. So delicious! But that was the only day that happened and we never saw ensaymada put out on the buffet.

[UKstages]

4 hours ago, OrangeCatRamblers said:

If anyone is sailing from NYC this spring, absolutely do not miss New York, New York! 

 

it may not be there.

 

the show opened last night to almost unanimous pans... the reviews were very disappointing. it may hang around until the tony awards (assuming it gets nominated next week), but with pans like it received, its future is uncertain, at best.

[OrangeCatRamblers]

8 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

it may not be there.

 

the show opened last night to almost unanimous pans... the reviews were very disappointing. it may hang around until the tony awards (assuming it gets nominated next week), but with pans like it received, its future is uncertain, at best.

 

Oh what a shame. I thought it was visually impressive and lots of fun. Well, different strokes, I guess. 

 

[JillK]

When I compare cruise prices, I look at the all-in price (inclusive of extras, daily gratuities and ancillary costs) and not just the initial fare to get a real feel for the value on a per person per day basis. Only then can I make a truly informed choice about the value of what I am buying.

 

The OP says that Princess does not charge for "free" items. I hear what he is saying in that one doesn't pay for the value of the drinks package but pays the gratuities on that value so there is a cost to the end user. The reality is that you are paying upfront for the drinks on Princess and Celebrity as well for example, it's just in the way it's presented.

 

Celebrity has a clear price difference to include drinks, wifi and gratuities as another poster mentioned. 

We cruised over Christmas with our four children in three cabins on Princess last year. Hubby and I felt that the Princess Plus fare inclusive of drinks and wifi was worth it for us to avoid the hassle of buying drinks a la carte, but we did not purchase it for our children. The price difference for Princess Plus (drinks and wifi inclusive) was $550 Cdn per person more than the fare for the kids (total of $1100 Cdn). So even with Princess you do pay for the additional service that you get with them if you want them. They don't present it as free because it's not. At least with NCL, you are only paying the gratuity on the value of the package based on the number of days sailed so it is a substantial savings vs having to buy the package outright. As others have mentioned, you don't have to take the "perks" and can book a sail-away rate that excludes them. 

 

We cruised NCL, Carnival and Princess last year and each had their strengths and weaknesses. Based on those experiences though, we have eliminated Princess entirely. The value for us just isn't there and it is clearly geared toward a more elderly crowd. I could go on about why we feel this way but this isn't really the right place for that so I will digress.

 

Last year we felt we had excellent value with Carnival and good value with NCL. We would consider both lines again for future cruises and after much debate have decided that for us, focussing on NCL is better thanks to the perks associated with the Latitudes program, despite some things that we don't like about them (highest daily grats- for us when you add 40% exchange rate starts to get astronomical; high wifi cost; high spa costs). We still feel that for us NCL provides an excellent product at an acceptable price point and have two future cruises booked with them accordingly. 

 

All that to say it's really important to understand what you're getting for what you're paying... only paying for what you want and doing due diligence by reading reviews to see what other people are saying about their experiences (taking everything with a grain of salt however as one man's trash is another's treasure). 

 

I'm sorry you were disappointed by your current cruise with NCL and hope that you find a line that better suits your needs.... best wishes for happy sailings in the future.

 

[corman-cruise]

9 hours ago, Hutcha said:

@corman-cruise you've awaken the beast. The NCL loyalist have come out to defend!!

 

I would agree with you. NCL nickels and dimes you. Just because it's in the terms, doesn't mean you need to be happy with it. All cruise lines have been trying to extract extra money from you, in this post covid world, but I take exception to some of the things that NCL does. Forgive me if my numbers aren't exact, but here are some examples.

 

Yes, advertising and marketing are great ploys that companies use to lure you. NCL is great at it. Take the drink package, and the gratuity on it. Other cruise lines include the gratuity when the package is included (MSC and Celebrity come to mind). NCL inflates the cost of the drink package ($119/day?) so they can extract a higher grat out of you. Who else charges this much for a drink package?

 

Bottled water. What line charges so much for a drink package, and doesn't include bottled water?

 

A big pet peeve of mine is the miniscule amount of top deck space that is taken up with pay for amenities, The Vibe, The Haven, laser tag, racetrack, etc I feel that deck and pool space is inadequate. For that reason I will not sail NCL outside of The Haven. The exception might be to try the Prima class.

 

The Haven. Great product, if you can get it for the right price, but it still has it's limits. I sailed with the premium plus drink package. You could get a steak dinner delivered to your room, but if you want a glass of wine delivered with it, you have to pay for it. Same with the minibar. For the price these rooms go for it, those things should be included.

 

The included internet is a joke. Is it factual, sure.

 

I probably will sail NCL again, but I can't imagine doing it outside of The Haven. That opinion might change after my MSC Yacht Club cruise this fall. 

It's amazing how upset  and defensive some people got. There was more that I didn't mention but  I am glad you did. 

 

Happy future sailings to you and your family. 

[RD64]

Why do people complain when they always have the choice whether or not to cruise with a particular company. If you feel you are being Nickled and dimed ( when ALL of the pricing information is out there for you to make an informed decision pre final payment) then please select from one of the other cruise lines that you feel is not nickel and diming you - time for you to move on.

[G-DawgMN]

1 hour ago, corman-cruise said:

It's amazing how upset  and defensive some people got. There was more that I didn't mention but  I am glad you did. 

 

Happy future sailings to you and your family. 

 Actually most people including myself were trying to understand what you were missing and the difference in price points. The only thing that I hear you were unhappy about was the Internet vs Princess and that they didn’t have a show like Cats onboard. 
 

  So in your “better” cruises what was the difference in price compared to NCL. I still maintain NCL is the best value per dollar vs other lines. For example. My Nickel and Dime cruise next year is $2100 for a 7 day with airfare including all perks and the DSC. Show me a line that can do better. 
 

  If you like paying more money overall but not having to pay gratuities on a different line then that’s your choice. We all have different opinions on what we like, so sorry they don’t agree with yours. 

[fshagan]

10 hours ago, Hutcha said:

I looked at several cruises on NCL, that are over a year away, and the sail away rate is "sold out". How does one not pay for something they don't want ,but the rate is inflated because of it?

 

On the NCL site, you can uncheck the extra cost "Free at Sea" items while booking and avoid having them added. A sidebar on the right shows you all the costs and updates in real time as you check off the items.

 

On many cruises, I've found the cheapest balcony that is not the "sail away" rate is also a guarantee cabin, so you have to go up one more step to be able to choose your cabin.

 

The pricing when you do a booking is pretty transparent on NCL, X and RCL. I do like how X puts the DSC / tips / gratuities on the booking so you can prepay it while finishing the booking.

[RB9643]

 

Perceptions are what they are. All marketing managers know this.

 

When a relatively newer cruiser reads Free At Sea, they are not reading Free At Sea*.

 

The asterisk is important. All cruise lines use asterisks, they just put them in different places.

[cruiseny4life]

10 hours ago, RB9643 said:

 

Perceptions are what they are. All marketing managers know this.

 

When a relatively newer cruiser reads Free At Sea, they are not reading Free At Sea*.

 

The asterisk is important. All cruise lines use asterisks, they just put them in different places.

Absolutely! Last year I took my first cruise, in April to Bermuda on NCL. While booking, I thought to myself having free specialty dining every night of the cruise is just too good to be true. And, I could really have all the free drinks I wanted? Then we booked and saw the gratuities added. And, then I came to Cruise Critic and discovered I would only receive two free meals. I was absolutely and completely ticked! 

 

People on here talk about doing due diligence, but I'd like to know how many folks actually review the terms and conditions for everything they buy. I'm a much more savvy cruise consumer now, but I still have a very sour taste in my mouth for NCL's business practices. Luckily for them (not that they care), the onboard experience, in the Haven, is worth dealing with their shady business. But, posters on here are far too quick to blame the inexperienced cruiser while giving the cruise lines a pass on being unethical. 

[AstoriaPreppy]

I get that there's a lot of cheerleaders on this board, but it's important to note that NCL (more than other lines) has been very open that they've raised their prices in the past several years, and consider discounts a thing of the past. 

 

What we've specifically noticed is a dramatic upswing in the cost of specialty dining and the beverage package. The "price" of the included beverage package price been raised dramatically in the past several years. Even though very few people are paying for that out of pocket, it seems to have been done specifically so NCL can extract more in gratuities during the booking process for the "free" item.

 

Additionally, the cost of specialty dining packages has also increased dramatically. In 2019, we paid $190 for a 10 night specialty dining package. This year, that same package on the same ship is $418.

 

NCL has a very loyal customer base, but for us, the value proposition is dropping off a cliff. 

 

 

 

 

[happy cruzer]

If you were in charge of marketing, what would you do?  Include it all and have a higher list price than a competitor then rely on the public to do the math to see that they really are getting a better deal?

 

The devil is always in the details whether it is package pricing, insurance policies, etc.

[insidecabin]

7 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

I get that there's a lot of cheerleaders on this board, but it's important to note that NCL (more than other lines) has been very open that they've raised their prices in the past several years, and consider discounts a thing of the past. 

 

What we've specifically noticed is a dramatic upswing in the cost of specialty dining and the beverage package. The "price" of the included beverage package price been raised dramatically in the past several years. Even though very few people are paying for that out of pocket, it seems to have been done specifically so NCL can extract more in gratuities during the booking process for the "free" item.

 

Additionally, the cost of specialty dining packages has also increased dramatically. In 2019, we paid $190 for a 10 night specialty dining package. This year, that same package on the same ship is $418.

 

NCL has a very loyal customer base, but for us, the value proposition is dropping off a cliff. 

 

 

 

 

UK structure free at sea differently it is done with a set fee for the length of  the cruise roughly £20pppd as an initial guide to add,  not really hidden,
This is the cost pppd and with 1 meal at value £30,  even cheaper when you are in a 2/3 meals cabin/length

 

days			new	pppd	£30.00
1
2
3			£99.00	£33.00	£23.00
4			£99.00	£24.75	£17.25
5			£99.00	£19.80	£13.80
6			£149.00	£24.83	£19.83
7			£149.00	£21.29	£17.00
8			£149.00	£18.63	£14.88
9			£199.00	£22.11	£18.78
10			£199.00	£19.90	£16.90
11			£199.00	£18.09	£15.36
12			£249.00	£20.75	£18.25
13			£249.00	£19.15	£16.85
14			£249.00	£17.79	£15.64
15			£299.00	£19.93	£17.93
16			£299.00	£18.69	£16.81
17			£299.00	£17.59	£15.82
18			£349.00	£19.39	£17.72

 

As for no discounting been seeing it in the UK,  they have had a 35%/50% almost continuously and air credits to give more hidden discounts  and prices have been going down.

 

UK departure Dawn in May  $108pppd with free at sea and grats. before any TA or NCL latitude account discounts(I had a 20% and a 10% for europe)

[SeaShark]

59 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Absolutely! Last year I took my first cruise, in April to Bermuda on NCL. While booking, I thought to myself having free specialty dining every night of the cruise is just too good to be true. And, I could really have all the free drinks I wanted? Then we booked and saw the gratuities added. And, then I came to Cruise Critic and discovered I would only receive two free meals. I was absolutely and completely ticked! 

 

People on here talk about doing due diligence, but I'd like to know how many folks actually review the terms and conditions for everything they buy. I'm a much more savvy cruise consumer now, but I still have a very sour taste in my mouth for NCL's business practices. Luckily for them (not that they care), the onboard experience, in the Haven, is worth dealing with their shady business. But, posters on here are far too quick to blame the inexperienced cruiser while giving the cruise lines a pass on being unethical. 

 

Not to pick on you, but this is a great example.

 

You set expectations of free specialty dining every night of the cruise and all the free drinks you wanted...NCL never promised that. The reason you were "absolutely and completely ticked" was that reality did not rise to meet your expectations.

 

So you have to ask...did the cruise line fail to deliver what was promised OR did the failure come from the guests own expectations?

 

If a guest doesn't do their own research OR if the guest doesn't use a PCC or TA who can explain things to them, then that is really their own failure...it isn't the cruise line being unethical. And this is why people blame the cruiser and, as you say, give the cruise line a pass.

[UKstages]

1 hour ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

What we've specifically noticed is a dramatic upswing in the cost of specialty dining and the beverage package. The "price" of the included beverage package price been raised dramatically in the past several years. Even though very few people are paying for that out of pocket, it seems to have been done specifically so NCL can extract more in gratuities during the booking process for the "free" item.

 

Additionally, the cost of specialty dining packages has also increased dramatically. In 2019, we paid $190 for a 10 night specialty dining package. This year, that same package on the same ship is $418.

 

NCL has a very loyal customer base, but for us, the value proposition is dropping off a cliff. 

 

does anybody shop at the US based retailers macy's or kohl's without a coupon? i seriously doubt it. their entire business strategy is built upon offering 20%, 30%, 40%, 50% (and more) coupons. you'd be very foolish to shop there and pay the so-called retail price of the item. they only put those prices on the item, so they can claim heavily discounted prices in their ads and then offer percentage discounts on top. very few - if any - people pay these ridiculous prices. you have to play the game they are inviting you to play. if you choose not to play that game, you won't be able to shop there and get value for money.

 

it's the very same with NCL.

 

as many have noted, NCL has a marketing strategy that offers "free" stuff, on most of which they collect a gratuity. (whether the gratuity actually funds a tip pool for their frontline and behind the scenes employees or whether some is siphoned off for  "administrative" fees and operating expenses is a whole other discussion, but i suspect that a large portion does not go directly to employees. hey, it's just a hunch.) anyway, NCL has indeed raised prices, and, yes, the net effect is mostly to collect more in gratuities... since, most agree, few people pay outright for a drink package or these other amenities.

 

if, for some unknown reason, somebody chooses to purchase the drink package, yes, they will be at a disadvantage. but they have chosen not to play the game. if you want to go to a specialty restaurant (with the possible exception of food republic) and pay a la carte, you are throwing your money away. these items, just like the drink package, have artificially high prices to provide a higher base cost and greater gratuity. and, yes, occasionally some hapless schmuck wanders in and gets caught between a rock and a hard place and winds up paying full price. that's money in NCL's pocket, for sure... but i don't believe that's their primary goal with this pricing structure.

 

it would be like shopping for all your groceries at a convenience store, such as 7-11. you will pay dearly for the "convenience." it's no different than the restaurant prices at land-based casinos. the prices are a fantasy because few people pay them... everybody is eating for "free" using their comp dollars.

 

again, it's not that nobody pays these prices. a small number do. but the fact that NCL prices are set high does three things... it makes the average joe and jane feel good about "saving" so much money with free at sea (just like when you buy something at kohl's for 50% off), it provides additional gratuity "revenue" and it forces you to play the game they have invited you to play. if you don't want to play this game, then you are correct, NCL isn't for you. you can choose another cruise line. but don't kid yourself... they are also inviting you to play their game. 

 

you can season your ground beef and pour mushroom sauce over it and call it salisbury steak; it's still a freakin' hamburger.

[AstoriaPreppy]

8 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

does anybody shop at the US based retailers macy's or kohl's without a coupon? i seriously doubt it. their entire business strategy is built upon offering 20%, 30%, 40%, 50% (and more) coupons. you'd be very foolish to shop there and pay the so-called retail price of the item. they only put those prices on the item, so they can claim heavily discounted prices in their ads and then offer percentage discounts on top. very few - if any - people pay these ridiculous prices. you have to play the game they are inviting you to play. if you choose not to play that game, you won't be able to shop there and get value for money.

 

it's the very same with NCL.

 

as many have noted, NCL has a marketing strategy that offers "free" stuff, on most of which they collect a gratuity. (whether the gratuity actually funds a tip pool for their frontline and behind the scenes employees or whether some is siphoned off for  "administrative" fees and operating expenses is a whole other discussion, but i suspect that a large portion does not go directly to employees. hey, it's just a hunch.) anyway, NCL has indeed raised prices, and, yes, the net effect is mostly to collect more in gratuities... since, most agree, few people pay outright for a drink package or these other amenities.

 

if, for some unknown reason, somebody chooses to purchase the drink package, yes, they will be at a disadvantage. but they have chosen not to play the game. if you want to go to a specialty restaurant (with the possible exception of food republic) and pay a la carte, you are throwing your money away. these items, just like the drink package, have artificially high prices to provide a higher base cost and greater gratuity. and, yes, occasionally some hapless schmuck wanders in and gets caught between a rock and a hard place and winds up paying full price. that's money in NCL's pocket, for sure... but i don't believe that's their primary goal with this pricing structure.

 

it would be like shopping for all your groceries at a convenience store, such as 7-11. you will pay dearly for the "convenience." it's no different than the restaurant prices at land-based casinos. the prices are a fantasy because few people pay them... everybody is eating for "free" using their comp dollars.

 

again, it's not that nobody pays these prices. a small number do. but the fact that NCL prices are set high does three things... it makes the average joe and jane feel good about "saving" so much money with free at sea (just like when you buy something at kohl's for 50% off), it provides additional gratuity "revenue" and it forces you to play the game they have invited you to play. if you don't want to play this game, then you are correct, NCL isn't for you. you can choose another cruise line. but don't kid yourself... they are also inviting you to play their game. 

 

you can season your ground beef and pour mushroom sauce over it and call it salisbury steak; it's still a freakin' hamburger.

 

I totally appreciate the value prop positioning for NCL... it appears to be a big bang for your buck, and that you're saving a lot of money. Whether it still is is the question. In the past, buying a dining package on NCL was a good value: instead of paying a la carte, you could bundle dining into a reasonable price. While the dining package is still a "value" compared to paying out of pocket for each item, the same dining package has more than doubled in price in less than four years. 

 

Also, your perspective on non-gaming revenue and comps for casinos in Vegas hasn't been the case for the last 10-15 years. Non-gaming revenue makes up the majority of casino revenues these days (around 65-70%). Comps are way less prevalent than people assume, and the vast majority of guests (and gamblers) pay a lot of money out of pocket for dining, rooms, shows, and clubs in Vegas.

[insidecabin]

The days of unlimited drinks and specialty dining on $100 day cruises are behind us.

[UKstages]

2 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

While the dining package is still a "value" compared to paying out of pocket for each item, the same dining package has more than doubled in price in less than four years. 

 

i went to target yesterday and paid $3.39 for a 2 liter bottle of diet coke i paid $1.79 for less than two years ago. i paid $3.49 for a package of eight tortillas that used to be $1.99. 

 

2 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

Also, your perspective on non-gaming revenue and comps for casinos in Vegas hasn't been the case for the last 10-15 years. Non-gaming revenue makes up the majority of casino revenues these days (around 65-70%). Comps are way less prevalent than people assume, and the vast majority of guests (and gamblers) pay a lot of money out of pocket for dining, rooms, shows, and clubs in Vegas.

 

i spend far too much time in casinos, so much so that all my cruises are comped by NCL's casino at sea program.  so i have a pretty accurate perspective and an exhaustive knowledge of the way casinos work, how revenue is generated and how marketing and player development work together to get people to visit.

 

a reference to "vegas" did not appear in my post. i referred to "land-based casinos," the majority of which are not located in las vegas. and i did not offer my perspective on non-gaming revenue or comps (i do have one, but it's not pertinent to this topic). i did make one simple point: restaurant prices in land-based casinos are artificially high to take into account the large number of people who redeem comps to pay for their meal.

 

outside of vegas (which i didn't mention, by the way) casinos are still very much based around the gaming experience, even if they offer shopping, dining and entertainment. the main currency is comp dollars. people will have no qualms about losing a thousand dollars, as long as they can get their "free" buffet.  and while it's true that in vegas there is an increased focus on non-gaming revenue, the prices in the shops and restaurants still take into account the casino's ecosystem, which is based on comps. 

 

vegas is a unique animal in that there are many non-casino restaurants and entertainment venues available to visitors. and many people are there - believe it or not - on business. so some people are indeed paying those prices. but it is often not coming out of their pocket, which makes them somewhat immune to sticker shock.

 

anyway, all of this is moot. the vegas fantasy comp dollar comparison was a footnote to the bit about shopping for all your groceries at a convenience store. it was an offhand supplementary comment about paying inflated prices. few people do that, just as few people pay outright for a beverage package on NCL.

Edited April 28, 2023 by UKstages