Carnival has lost control

[JerseyGirlJen]

It's a combination of parents being negligent in parenting/controlling/disciplining their kids (I've had parents say to me, "They're not bothering anyone because no one is complaining"), and Carnival not enforcing the rules.  If Carnival took the first step and started to crack down and follow through with rules/consequenses, behavior would change because then parents would be affected in that they'd be stuck watching their kids all week when they aren't allowed out of their sight, or get escorted off the ship.  But Carnival won't do that.  God forbid they "offend" the incompetent parents.

[sparks1093]

11 hours ago, JerseyGirlJen said:

It's a combination of parents being negligent in parenting/controlling/disciplining their kids (I've had parents say to me, "They're not bothering anyone because no one is complaining"), and Carnival not enforcing the rules.  If Carnival took the first step and started to crack down and follow through with rules/consequenses, behavior would change because then parents would be affected in that they'd be stuck watching their kids all week when they aren't allowed out of their sight, or get escorted off the ship.  But Carnival won't do that.  God forbid they "offend" the incompetent parents.

It all starts with a complaint. Let's face it, the passengers out number the staff, especially the security staff. It would be nice if they could have someone always available in every venue who was on watch to stop things before they start but that isn't realistic at all. The bar staff are being paid to serve drinks, not be on the look out for bad behavior and the same goes for the rest of the crew. To put the onus on them is expecting too much in many cases because they are busy enough. If what is happening isn't concerning enough for someone to pick up the phone and call guest services/security is it really that bothersome? (Of course if the behavior is egregious in nature, such as a fight, one would hope that the crew would make the call, although without specific training it's understandable that they don't directly intervene.)

 

[ontheweb]

20 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

It all starts with a complaint. Let's face it, the passengers out number the staff, especially the security staff. It would be nice if they could have someone always available in every venue who was on watch to stop things before they start but that isn't realistic at all. The bar staff are being paid to serve drinks, not be on the look out for bad behavior and the same goes for the rest of the crew. To put the onus on them is expecting too much in many cases because they are busy enough. If what is happening isn't concerning enough for someone to pick up the phone and call guest services/security is it really that bothersome? (Of course if the behavior is egregious in nature, such as a fight, one would hope that the crew would make the call, although without specific training it's understandable that they don't directly intervene.)

 

Is it possible that passengers do not make complaints because they do not expect Carnival to follow through on them?

[sparks1093]

33 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Is it possible that passengers do not make complaints because they do not expect Carnival to follow through on them?

Of course it is, similar to how citizens don't file complaints with the police when they should because they don't think anything will happen. It sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, we don't complain because we don't expect anything to happen and nothing happens because we don't complain.

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Of course it is, similar to how citizens don't file complaints with the police when they should because they don't think anything will happen. It sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, we don't complain because we don't expect anything to happen and nothing happens because we don't complain.

I think you nailed it. But the question remains how does one get out of that self-fulfilling loop.

[jimbo5544]

39 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Is it possible that passengers do not make complaints because they do not expect Carnival to follow through on them?

Then they should not complain, how the heck do we blame the cruise line when the first time it pops up is here.

[sparks1093]

15 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I think you nailed it. But the question remains how does one get out of that self-fulfilling loop.

It starts with each of us saying something when we see something that shouldn't be happening. I can only control what I do and I am more inclined to say something if I see an actual rule being violated.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I think you nailed it. But the question remains how does one get out of that self-fulfilling loop.

You have the answer in your hand most of the cruise.  Photos and videos shown to Guest Services/Hotel Director/Security then escalate up to JH, CCL via social media. 

Not to say for sure but I was on one cruise where two babies were in the pool with parents before we even left the port.  After a call to Guest Services, someone did come down, had far too long a conversation with one family who finally left the pool but the other parent turned away from the crew member and hid the baby while staying in the pool.  The crew member just left so the other family stayed in the pool which was not emptied until overnight. 

I took pictures and sent them to both JH, CCL and the Coast Guard via their complaint line.  Next cruise, and every one since, the pool monitors are present.  Was it me? Were there multiple complaints?   I don't know but I do know I got results from calling Guest Services.  

[bigdaddyyo]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

It starts with each of us saying something when we see something that shouldn't be happening. I can only control what I do and I am more inclined to say something if I see an actual rule being violated.

As much as I agree with what you are saying, I will say that the cruise line sees more than we think they see.  I think for them the actions fall between a safety issue and a nuisance issue.  I think the only ones they truly care about are the safety issues.  I had a crew member tell me that on the prior cruise that a boy held down the handles on the soft serve machine and emptied all of the ice cream onto the floor.  She mentioned that the biggest problem on the ship is always the ice cream machine.  Now that being said Carnival is aware of the issue, but does nothing about it.  On other cruise lines that I've been on (RCCL, Disney), when they had a problem with the soft serve machine, they posted an employee there and the employee is the one serving the ice cream.  Is it ideal? No, but that was the solution to stop all of the waste.  Another fix to a problem like this would be to send a bill to the stateroom of that child for the ice cream wasted and time to clean it up.  Guarantee that would fix that child and the parents would start paying more attention.  Another thing that is small but still speaks to the mindset of the crew was trash.  I saw numerous times where trash was in the stairwell.  Food wrappers, papers, etc and I watched time and time again how crew, both low level and officers would walk by the trash without even hesitating to pick it up.  I can't remember a time on RCCL or Disney in which I saw that happen.  If they saw trash they would stop what they are doing and grab it, but I didn't see that on this cruise.  Now in a perfect world it should be the passengers that dropped the trash are the ones that pick it up, but we know how that goes.  I think in the end it becomes a quantity over quality issue for Carnival.  You want your boats to be full, because that means more money, but if the product you are providing is suffering because of it, then you have to ask yourself if you are more worried about money or about your product.  I think we know the answer to that.

[Cushing985]

I've never seen bad behavior by kids on any of our cruises.  But, I do research and make sure most schools are in session for the little darlings.  Unfortunately, people are restricted by their jobs and don't have the flexibility we have (both retired).  I agree with those who say parents are just checking out when discipline is required.  Those parents better step up to the plate sooner rather than later or they'll find their kids living in their basements when they become adults.

[john91498]

Over 30 cruises on various cruise lines and I have yet to see unruly children. Just lucky, I guess...

[pc_load_letter]

I might sound like an old man at the ripe old age of 46 but I really think Carnival needs to make the under 17 curfew to 11pm.

 

 

[Haljo1935]

10 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Is it possible that passengers do not make complaints because they do not expect Carnival to follow through on them?

Yep, well said. 

[Haljo1935]

5 hours ago, john91498 said:

Over 30 cruises on various cruise lines and I have yet to see unruly children. Just lucky, I guess...

Indeed very lucky.

So lucky, I suggest you buy lottery tickets...🙃🤭

[JerseyGirlJen]

11 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

It all starts with a complaint. Let's face it, the passengers out number the staff, especially the security staff. It would be nice if they could have someone always available in every venue who was on watch to stop things before they start but that isn't realistic at all. The bar staff are being paid to serve drinks, not be on the look out for bad behavior and the same goes for the rest of the crew. To put the onus on them is expecting too much in many cases because they are busy enough. If what is happening isn't concerning enough for someone to pick up the phone and call guest services/security is it really that bothersome? (Of course if the behavior is egregious in nature, such as a fight, one would hope that the crew would make the call, although without specific training it's understandable that they don't directly intervene.)

 

I agree.  If people would start making complaints then Carnival would have to address it at some point. 

[JerseyGirlJen]

7 hours ago, bigdaddyyo said:

As much as I agree with what you are saying, I will say that the cruise line sees more than we think they see.  I think for them the actions fall between a safety issue and a nuisance issue.  I think the only ones they truly care about are the safety issues.  I had a crew member tell me that on the prior cruise that a boy held down the handles on the soft serve machine and emptied all of the ice cream onto the floor.  She mentioned that the biggest problem on the ship is always the ice cream machine.  Now that being said Carnival is aware of the issue, but does nothing about it.  On other cruise lines that I've been on (RCCL, Disney), when they had a problem with the soft serve machine, they posted an employee there and the employee is the one serving the ice cream.  Is it ideal? No, but that was the solution to stop all of the waste.  Another fix to a problem like this would be to send a bill to the stateroom of that child for the ice cream wasted and time to clean it up.  Guarantee that would fix that child and the parents would start paying more attention.  Another thing that is small but still speaks to the mindset of the crew was trash.  I saw numerous times where trash was in the stairwell.  Food wrappers, papers, etc and I watched time and time again how crew, both low level and officers would walk by the trash without even hesitating to pick it up.  I can't remember a time on RCCL or Disney in which I saw that happen.  If they saw trash they would stop what they are doing and grab it, but I didn't see that on this cruise.  Now in a perfect world it should be the passengers that dropped the trash are the ones that pick it up, but we know how that goes.  I think in the end it becomes a quantity over quality issue for Carnival.  You want your boats to be full, because that means more money, but if the product you are providing is suffering because of it, then you have to ask yourself if you are more worried about money or about your product.  I think we know the answer to that.

Some people behave very poorly, and unfortunately if the Parents are poorly behaved and set no standards for their kids at home then they'll continue to behave like animals on the ship. Some people don't have respect or take care of their space/stuff (litter their own neighborhoods and then come on a cruise, stay at a resort, etc. and emulate the same behavior).  Agree that Carnival's MO right now is financial, but I really hope that they start to set higher expectations for their guests....it's just not fair to the other 1500-3000 people on board who are behaving accordingly.

[MtnSeaGirl]

38 minutes ago, JerseyGirlJen said:

Some people behave very poorly, and unfortunately if the Parents are poorly behaved and set no standards for their kids at home then they'll continue to behave like animals on the ship. Some people don't have respect or take care of their space/stuff (litter their own neighborhoods and then come on a cruise, stay at a resort, etc. and emulate the same behavior).  Agree that Carnival's MO right now is financial, but I really hope that they start to set higher expectations for their guests....it's just not fair to the other 1500-3000 people on board who are behaving accordingly.

You nailed it what you said " it's just not fair to the other 1500-3000 people on board who are behaving accordingly."    A few years ago, we unfortunately booked an OV that connected to another room.  They had a baby that they put to bed around 11pm each evening.  That child cried it out until 1 am every night.  We called Guest Services the third night.  They came down, and the child was quiet for a while, but it just began again.  Now, I understand this is just a baby; babies cry.  My point is parents who think it OK on a cruise ship to let a baby "cry it out".  Not on a ship- connecting door or no connecting door.  Another cruise we were upgraded to a suite.  My bad for not checking the location better as we were just excited to get our first suite.  The suite was near the elevators.....we had young adults laying in the floor, drunk as the proverbial skunk, yelling, laughing. Called Guest Services.  They were no minors, but they sure had "no raising". We cruised with our youngest when he was a boy.  He knew the rules, and we knew the ship was a floating city.  He was never left alone, and sure Lord was respectful to everyone.  Things have changed so much in general with kiddos/parents, not just in cruising.  The bottom line is it sure is not fair to the rest of us who are spending money on the ship and paying cruise fares.  

[john91498]

2 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Indeed very lucky.

So lucky, I suggest you buy lottery tickets...🙃🤭

 

Well, I think I've seen more than my fair share of unruly adults. Just unlucky I guess...😆

[TheMichael]

"Today's kids - unkempt hooligans the likes of which we've never seen before" - Every older generation

[jimbo5544]

14 hours ago, JerseyGirlJen said:

Some people behave very poorly, and unfortunately if the Parents are poorly behaved and set no standards for their kids at home then they'll continue to behave like animals on the ship. Some people don't have respect or take care of their space/stuff (litter their own neighborhoods and then come on a cruise, stay at a resort, etc. and emulate the same behavior).  Agree that Carnival's MO right now is financial, but I really hope that they start to set higher expectations for their guests....it's just not fair to the other 1500-3000 people on board who are behaving accordingly.

But it is their vacation….

[jimbo5544]

13 hours ago, MtnSeaGirl said:

You nailed it what you said " it's just not fair to the other 1500-3000 people on board who are behaving accordingly."    A few years ago, we unfortunately booked an OV that connected to another room.  They had a baby that they put to bed around 11pm each evening.  That child cried it out until 1 am every night.  We called Guest Services the third night.  They came down, and the child was quiet for a while, but it just began again.  Now, I understand this is just a baby; babies cry.  My point is parents who think it OK on a cruise ship to let a baby "cry it out".  Not on a ship- connecting door or no connecting door.  Another cruise we were upgraded to a suite.  My bad for not checking the location better as we were just excited to get our first suite.  The suite was near the elevators.....we had young adults laying in the floor, drunk as the proverbial skunk, yelling, laughing. Called Guest Services.  They were no minors, but they sure had "no raising". We cruised with our youngest when he was a boy.  He knew the rules, and we knew the ship was a floating city.  He was never left alone, and sure Lord was respectful to everyone.  Things have changed so much in general with kiddos/parents, not just in cruising.  The bottom line is it sure is not fair to the rest of us who are spending money on the ship and paying cruise fares.  

Maybe they should put them off to sea in a lifeboat…at least the baby….right?  This is a family cruise line….I think.  

Edited June 8, 2023 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, Carnival Cheerleader said:

While the cruise line is not responsible for disciplining kids (or adults either), they ARE responsible for enforcing their own rules, no matter the age of the rule breaker. Personally, I'd like to see more people who act up and break the rules to just be thrown in the brig and then off-loaded at the next port, no matter the age of the rule breaker.

I assume you are joking

[sparks1093]

6 minutes ago, Carnival Cheerleader said:

I've been complaining for YEARS to Carnival and John Heald directly that Carnival needs to either start enforcing their own rules or just get rid of them if they don't want to enforce them. Carnival has not addressed my complaints and never will so no, they don't have to address it at some point if they don't want to.

You are right, general complaints will not be addressed. However specific complaints made onboard regarding specific behaviors are more likely to be addressed. Now, with that said, are they going to follow up with you after a complaint and let you know that the transgressor was keel hauled for their indiscretion? No, they won't. Which some will take as "Carnival not doing anything", even if they did.

[blyle]

I was on the same trip and the poster is correct.  After 35 cruises this was the worst behavior I've ever seen!.

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, Carnival Cheerleader said:

Why would you assume that? I don't believe I put a laugh emoji in my post. Personally I'm tired of seeing rule breakers and people making a ruckus on board and there are simply no consequences for their actions. Such as on my last Mardi Gras cruise where my wife and I were in the smoking section and some 20 something sat down, lit a joint, and then asked if it was okay as my wife got up to leave due the stench (and she is a smoker buy not of that). Notified security but they of course took so long to get there and the guy had finished up that one and was gone. Unfortunately I fully expect this kind of nonsense on Carnival these days. 

Granted, I'm more tired of seeing Carnival turning a blind eye to obvious issues and failing to enforce their own rules and that is probably why there is more crap going on on the ships.

Well, that is a view….  Won’t get into a debate, but, rules are put in place because……the VAST majority of cruisers follow them.  There you go.  I see them doing it ALL the time, every day, on every cruise.  Possibly your view is ……slightly different then their view?  Or are you RIGHT?