Simply more's impact on current bookings?

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Hank, two small corrections.

 

SS does include excursions and does charge air deviation fee.

 

 

Thanks for pointing out my error.  We have not looked at SS since the COVID shutdown and noticed (as a result of your post) that they do now include some excursions.  I am not sure how their air currently works and whether their "air credit" for those not using their air is reasonable.  One popular discussion topic, whenever we have cruised on Seabourn, has been folks comparing SB to SS...but nobody has ever mentioned the relatively new shore excursion inclusion.

 

Hank

[ak1004]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Thanks for pointing out my error.  We have not looked at SS since the COVID shutdown and noticed (as a result of your post) that they do now include some excursions.  I am not sure how their air currently works and whether their "air credit" for those not using their air is reasonable.  One popular discussion topic, whenever we have cruised on Seabourn, has been folks comparing SB to SS...but nobody has ever mentioned the relatively new shore excursion inclusion.

 

Hank

 

SS air is a mixed bag. Sometimes there is an excellent value, sometimes it's terrible. The door 2 door pricing includes economy flight, but you can take air credit or upgrade to business. In our cruise next May (Venice-Rome) we are getting the business upgrade from Toronto for $2,800 CAD (Just over $2k USD) - we could never get those prices on our own.

 

Our previous SS cruise in December was about $350 USD per night. This already included excursions. So we go case by case basis and are not overly obsessed about things that we pay for but don't need. We are also perfectly fine with the 240 sqft cabin on the Riviera, so theoretically we are paying for 310 sqft cabin that we don't need (although I must admit it was nice). We also pay for a butler that we hardly utilize (although our last one was much more handsome than me so my wife insisted seeing him twice a day)

[Flatbush Flyer]

31 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

…While Flatbush Flyer disagrees, we have long argued that the major negative of "O" (in terms of value) is their awful air program for anyone that wants Business Class and customized perks….  

…No way would we ever trust a cruise (or river cruise) line to simply book our air without letting us choose the flights.

Let’s correct a couple of your errors about O air:

1) I often post here that one should NEVER use O air for bizclass air tix. A search on CC would quickly confirm that along with explaining my reasons why.

2) O requires no one to take the first suggested air routing. And they will arrange (without deviation fee) anything you specifically request that flies within a couple of days pre-embarkation (though you will be responsible for fare differences). Flights outside that window do incur a deviation fee (though “gold” or above O Club members get complimentary deviations.

 

[1985rz1]

Each situation is different, but here's the impact for two cruises I have booked under OLife with the excursion option.  Neither are sales cruises, and there are no special incentives included:

 

1. Norway/Scotland - 18 days:

OLife price (with excursions): $14,299 pp

SM price: $14,499 pp

Price increase: $200

 

What do we get for the $200 increase:

A second WiFi account, valued at $450

The basic drink package, valued at $720

Total benefit for the $200 increase: $1170.

 

What do we lose for the $200 increase:

Four OLife included excursions priced at $400; actual value around $600 to $700 replaced with $500 of excursions only SBC.

 

2.Greece/Turkey - 17 days:

OLife price (with excursions): $9,299 pp

SM price: $9599 pp

Price increase: $300

 

What do we get for the $300 increase:

A second WiFi account, valued at $425

The basic drink package, valued at $680

Total benefit for the $200 increase: $1105.

 

What do we lose for the $300 increase:

Four OLife included excursions priced at $500; actual value around $650 to  $750 replaced with $700 of excursions only SBC.

 

We're quite neutral on the basic drink package, so even if that is not included, SM is a better deal for us.

 

YMMV

Edited July 3, 2023 by 1985rz1

[JKrise]

13 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

This post is probably the best summary of the last 20 pages of this crazy thread..

 

When we started looking at SS, I was a bit concerned about paying for other people's drinks. We ended up booking 3 SS cruises because the itinerary and the price was right even including drinks. I ended up paying for other people's drinks, but the amount of black caviar that I consumed probably exceeded several drink packages. Other people were paying for my black caviar because some don't like it, and many just didn't know that they can have anywhere anytime, unlimited.

 

I looked at Windstar. Looks very nice, we might consider it. They don't included drinks (positive for me), but they also don't include Wi-Fi and charge $35/day for it. Gratuities are also not included, while for many O regulars they are already included as part of the loyalty program. So for many people this would be an extra $50/day that has to be added to the cruise price. Yes, I noticed that some sailings say "all inclusive" (drinks, Wi-Fi and gratuities for presumably the same price), but we all know there are no free lunches (and no free drinks, free excursions or free Wi-Fi despite O trying to convince us otherwise for the last 20 years).. 

 

So maybe we (non drinkers) should be less obsessed with paying for other people's drinks and more obsessed with the overall value? Things like the overall ship experience, service, food, itineraries, cabins etc. are more important than the extra $50/day. If we want the small ship experience, we are inevitably going to pay for something we don't use, no matter which line we select.

Well stated.

From a corporate PoV, with the Simply More structure, the product differentiation between Oceania and Regent just became blurred.  Oceania maybe seen as under cutting their sister corporation- Regent.

[grifdoglover]

@JKrisesomeone on an earlier thread thought Regents licensing was expiring and therefore O and Regent would become one.  Certainly V can’t be happy.  

[grifdoglover]

Also Seabourn and Azamara have been sold.  Many changes in a fluctuating business.

[babysteps]

The business class air issue, is this a fair summary? All please chime in if this isn't quite right-

DIY biz class can be spendy

biz class through O typically costs more than DIY

on select other cruise lines, biz class can be (significantly) less than DIY

 

We hadn't flown business class in decades but 5 of our last 6 segments have been international biz class. All on miles so DIY, but out next 2 flights are economy so...our travel plans can vary widely for each trip lol

[Rainbow3fe]

14 hours ago, davencl said:

I went back and rechecked.  Yes you appear to be correct.  My balance due was $0 which I thought meant it was free but the balance was $0 because credits were applied.  Thanks for pointing this out.  FWIW I did not complete the transaction.

Even if you compete the transaction, you can call them and someone knowledgeable will fix errors snd updste pricing. ( I'm not sure you're going to get through to an agent for at least a week 🤪) 

Enjoy 😎🌊

[Rainbow3fe]

8 minutes ago, babysteps said:

The business class air issue, is this a fair summary? All please chime in if this isn't quite right-

DIY biz class can be spendy

biz class through O typically costs more than DIY

on select other cruise lines, biz class can be (significantly) less than DIY

 

We hadn't flown business class in decades but 5 of our last 6 segments have been international biz class. All on miles so DIY, but out next 2 flights are economy so...our travel plans can vary widely for each trip lol

If you're paying, see if you can book Comfort Plus or whatever your chosen airline calls it. It's a little more spacious than sardine Economy and most airlines have 2 across unless it's Domestic.  

[babysteps]

1 minute ago, Rainbow3fe said:

If you're paying, see if you can book Comfort Plus or whatever your chosen airline calls it. It's a little more spacious than sardine Economy and most airlines have 2 across unless it's Domestic.  

Yes good point. Our next flights are actually domestic so no Premium Economy but we are in seats with more legroom vs 'standard' economy.

 

We did do PE 3 cruises ago for the overnight-to-Europe segment and it is a nice option imo when priced a bit above economy, not so compelling when priced a bit less than business.

 

Every.single.flight can have different pricing, ita matrix is my friend!

[Psoque]

8 hours ago, 1985rz1 said:

Each situation is different, but here's the impact for two cruises I have booked under OLife with the excursion option.  Neither are sales cruises, and there are no special incentives included:

 

1. Norway/Scotland - 18 days:

OLife price (with excursions): $14,299 pp

SM price: $14,499 pp

Price increase: $200

 

What do we get for the $200 increase:

A second WiFi account, valued at $450

The basic drink package, valued at $720

Total benefit for the $200 increase: $1170.

 

What do we lose for the $200 increase:

Four OLife included excursions priced at $400; actual value around $600 to $700 replaced with $500 of excursions only SBC.

 

2.Greece/Turkey - 17 days:

OLife price (with excursions): $9,299 pp

SM price: $9599 pp

Price increase: $300

 

What do we get for the $300 increase:

A second WiFi account, valued at $425

The basic drink package, valued at $680

Total benefit for the $200 increase: $1105.

 

What do we lose for the $300 increase:

Four OLife included excursions priced at $500; actual value around $650 to  $750 replaced with $700 of excursions only SBC.

 

We're quite neutral on the basic drink package, so even if that is not included, SM is a better deal for us.

 

YMMV

Obviously, there’s nothing inherently wrong about your analysis, but things are more complicated that that.

 

1.  We all know that the the daily wifi charges for the second passenger on Oceania (and for that matter the charges for wifi on any cruise line, if they charge for it) are unreasonably high.  I can’t argue with the dollar amount of what it used to cost on Oceania, but I never thought it had a good value/cost ratio.  But, on the other hand, you can look at it in a positive light:  Now that the second wifi account is bundled, it appears to be more affordable.

 

2.  Same with the previous cost of the basic drink package, which, I think, was unreasonably high on Oceania and on any other cruise lines that offer it.  In many cases, for typical passengers, the packages never saved much money.  I think if every cruise passenger consumes enough alcohol to either break even or do better on the packages, there will be an epidemic of liver failures on the ships.

 

So, yes, it does look like simply MORE looks like you are “getting more for less,” but basically you are being “charged more” for the privilege of getting more for “FREE!!!,” even if you don’t want to get more.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Psoque

[grifdoglover]

Now if only they would get rid of fake “brochure” rates.  

[PhD-iva]

42 minutes ago, grifdoglover said:

Now if only they would get rid of fake “brochure” rates.  

Can we start an online petition?🙃

[PhD-iva]

I think they should have somehow bundled gratuities into the new pricing structure.

[LHT28]

Just now, PhD-iva said:

I think they should have somehow bundled gratuities into the new pricing structure.

Then  they  get rid of that perk for O club members

They are slowing reducing O Cub benefits  as it is

[DrHemlock]

1 hour ago, Psoque said:

So, yes, it does look like simply MORE looks like you are “getting more for less,” but basically you are being “charged more” for the privilege of getting more for “FREE!!!,” even if you don’t want to get more.

Nailed it.

[ak1004]

27 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

I think they should have somehow bundled gratuities into the new pricing structure.

 

I like Windstar pricing structure.

 

Option 1: cruise only.

Option 2: Wi-Fi, unlimited beer, wine, and cocktails, and gratuities for $89/day. 

 

For people who drink, it's a very attractive option. People who don't, just pay separately for gratuities and Wi-Fi if they need one.

 

Excursions are extra.

 

This is what I call simple. 

[Rainbow3fe]

16 hours ago, davencl said:

I went back and rechecked.  Yes you appear to be correct.  My balance due was $0 which I thought meant it was free but the balance was $0 because credits were applied.  Thanks for pointing this out.  FWIW I did not complete the transaction.

Even if you compete the transaction, you can call them and someone knowledgeable will fix errors snd updste pricing. ( I'm not sure you're going to get through to an agent for at least a week 🤪) 

Enjoy 😎🌊

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, grifdoglover said:

@JKrisesomeone on an earlier thread thought Regents licensing was expiring and therefore O and Regent would become one.  Certainly V can’t be happy.  

”Licensing?” What “licensing?”

There was a flap awhile ago about NCL liquor “licensing” in the UK.

But, if you’re talking about Regent’s fleet’s countries of registration (Bahamas or Marshall Islands), that would be huge cruise industry news (which no one I know has seen or heard).

[Rainbow3fe]

Hi,

  I found 2 of our 4 upcoming Oceania cruises. I may be repeating myself but SM  appears to be absurd for us.

Regatta 14 day B2 is $1950 more pp. 

No comment needed. 🤪

Vista 16 day B3 is only $400 more pp. 

     We don't believe we would EVER spend $800 for wine or beer at lunch or dinner. We don't drink at lunch and never have beer. 

    I understand everyone likes different things. I am not judging, just stating our personal facts.

😎

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:55 AM, Sebbiesgrammy said:

…….but the option for 25% discount over and above the 11 is now gone. 

 

I should add that we don't drink a lot and on our last 32 day O trip we brought on 8 bottles of wonderful So. African wine, happily paid the corkage, went to Happy Hour before dinner most days, added an occasional wine or beer with meal and still didn't spend $500 in additional bar charges so the drink package may not be a game changer....

 

The 25% YWYW on certain itineraries is not gone. As was the case with O Life: If your itinerary has it, you’ll see it in the tour description (though now called something like “simply more” and priced at 25% less than the retail price). And, if you do the minimum required number of tour purchases for your itinerary, you will get the 25% off in the Cart before your SM tour credits are subtracted from the balance due.

[Vineyard View]

3 hours ago, grifdoglover said:

Also Seabourn and Azamara have been sold.  Many changes in a fluctuating business.

I believe Seabourn just sold one ship. 

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

13 hours ago, osandomir said:

I really like your attitude. We’ve been sailing with Oceania since 2012, so obviously we like what they were offering. In the beginning we booked a lot of private tours or just explored independently. Lately we started to book more ship tours because on every cruise we normally have a significant amount of OBC from different sources. We use it mostly on the ship tours as we’re not interested in spending on the overpriced spa treatments or shopping in the boutiques.

 

I think we’ll keep our current bookings with the OLife, but the new model will probably work for us in the future. Yes, Oceania wants all of us to book their tours to bring more revenue and don’t want to sell a la carte cruises anymore. I’d like to have more options, but from the business point of view I can understand that, and I definitely don’t want them to go bankrupt like Vantage just did. Overall, the prices will go up anyway, but look around - almost everything is more expensive now.
So why would one expect the cruises to be different. At least we all have a choice to book with any of the cruise lines or not book at all.

Yes.  And with excursions, there have been times, while few, where the city we visited had absolutely no options for touring on our own -- not a taxi, not a tour, very little in the city (town?)  So I was very happy to book a ship's tour in those (few) places.  And we are hoping to start branching out again and not sticking to tours in Europe. In Southeast Asia, I'm thinking that excursions offered by a cruise ship may be more attractive to me than trying to do everything on my own, for several reasons.  So I doubt I'll be switching to another cruise line just because of "Simply More."  And I do think that Oceania has the best itineraries out there, as I like lots of ports, including lesser-known ports, so it's really easy to find a cruise I want.

 

[MnDAL]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:43 AM, vlthom said:

One thing that I’m unclear on with the new Simply More program is whether the additional wifi log-in per cabin is actually part of the SM program or just a policy change being enacted simultaneously.  In other words, if we’re booked under the old OLife program and don’t change to SM, will we get the extra log-in or still be limited to one per cabin?

Spoke with O on 7/1 - that was one of my questions. Answer: 2nd login only free for SM pax - others must pay upgrade (unless in cabin cat that already included 2).