Sad mistreatment of lounge waiters by Cunard senior management.

[LibertyBella]

I do not necessarily think that the waiters should keep the 15% tips individually, because there may be some bars that are much more popular than others, and the workers who are assigned there will make out much better than colleagues who are in the slower areas.  I am not sure if rotations occur, or if seniority plays a role in assignments, either.  I do not see this as any kind of master plan against crew by Cunard, but perhaps just a way to even the playing field.  I ALWAYS tip in cash above and beyond to those staff who provide me with exceptional service.  Ordering a drink one night from a random waiter does not qualify, but someone who regularly serves me and knows my likes and dislikes will definitely receive an envelope at the end of the cruise.

[alc13]

So, the change is that tips are distributed now instead of going to whoever provided the service?  That's okay with me.  I misunderstood - I thought Cunard was not distributing tips anymore (which only works if they boost other compensation by the same amount). 

[Colin_Cameron]

2 hours ago, alc13 said:

So, the change is that tips are distributed now instead of going to whoever provided the service?  

That’s not my reading of things. The ‘drinks service charge’ was distributed amongst the ‘bar team’, including their behind the scenes people. The ‘Hotel and Dining charge’ was distributed to the waiters and room stewards, and their support people. If I understand what has been said above then then those two charges are now considered one pool.

[alc13]

Oh, okay.  A bit confusing.  

 

 

[Winifred 22]

49 minutes ago, alc13 said:

Oh, okay.  A bit confusing.  

 

 

It’s not called a hotel and dining charge it’s gratuities I don’t think it specifies. I understand that included galley and laundry staff. As long as it all shared out I don’t mind what pot it goes into. 

[exlondoner]

4 minutes ago, Winifred 22 said:

It’s not called a hotel and dining charge it’s gratuities I don’t think it specifies. I understand that included galley and laundry staff. As long as it all shared out I don’t mind what pot it goes into. 

It is called hotel and dining charge in the paper brochure for this year and next.

[Winifred 22]

9 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

It is called hotel and dining charge in the paper brochure for this year and next.

Oh thanks I don’t ever read the brochure I just look online and then ring up H Q and book 

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, Winifred 22 said:

Oh thanks I don’t ever read the brochure I just look online and then ring up H Q and book 

It is very useful for checking things. 🙂

[bluemarble]

10 hours ago, Winifred 22 said:

It’s not called a hotel and dining charge it’s gratuities I don’t think it specifies. I understand that included galley and laundry staff. As long as it all shared out I don’t mind what pot it goes into. 

 

10 hours ago, exlondoner said:

It is called hotel and dining charge in the paper brochure for this year and next.

 

There is a "Hotel and Dining Service Charge Policy" page on the Cunard US website which includes this FAQ entry.

 

(Q) I noticed “gratuities” changed to “hotel and dining service charge”. Why did this change?

 

(A) We want to be transparent that these are charges that will be added to your onboard account.  In addition, we want to be consistent with the onboard policy that uses this language “Hotel and dining service charge” and be clear that what formerly referred to as gratuities is one and the same as “hotel and dining service charge.”

[deck chair]

Hello!  Perhaps |I was not clear.  The daily gratuities posted on your account can easily be removed if you elect to do so   The required gratuity included in the cost of your drinks/wine cannot be removed as they are mandatory.  According to my sources, those drink tips previously went  to the waiters themselves so the harder and more efficiently they worked the more money they made.  According to my many sources to  the tips no longer go to the individual waiter.   They are all now on a salary and they all earn  the same no matter how many drinks or bottles of wine  they sell. This clearly removes the incentive to work harder. It is also true that the additional  tip you can include on your check DOES go to the waiter but seriously how passengers add an additional tip?   Few, no doubt!!!

 

I am also being informed that if a waiter  exceeds goals his or her salary does  go up .   I am also being told, however,  that the sales goals are almost unreachable.  

 

I am currently  on my 41st sailing on the QM2 since 2006 and I have noticed a  subtle lack of enthusiasm among the server teams in the lounges.  It is no wonder given this change.  What is most troubling to me is that Cunard Line executives haven't made  this change abundantly clear to passengers.  They may be ashamed of themselves!!I f it were possible I would remove the drink service charge and tip myself to the deserving help.  

 

Please, I am not posting this to ignite another trip debate.   They are useless  and redundant.  To those who believe this doesn't matter  and the waiters are lucky to even have a job there is nothing I I can say to you.  To  those who believe like myself that this shabby treatment of  waiters does matter I encourage you to con tact Cunard Line and register your dismay. Be well. 

Deck Chair

Edited August 3, 2023 by deck chair
Change of language

[exlondoner]

I can understand discontent if the waiters find themselves less well off. But, really, the idea that they are only likely to be enthusiastic because they get the individual tips seems terribly patronising and very sad. 

[majortom10]

It seems fair to me that all waiters in the bars are on the same wage. I am sure they have no choice in which bar they work they are just told by their managers so those in the quieter bars would get less wages if gratuity for every drink. Seems a lot fairer to all be paid the same wherever they work.

 

[D&N]

I seem to recall that when auto-gratuities were renamed "Hotel and Restaurant Service Charge"?, we were told that instead of the pot of cash being divided between all qualifying staff, Cunard would keep that cash but pay all the staff concerned a higher salary, which guaranteed their earnings.

As long as Cunard pay out at least as much as they gather from the charge I don't see any moral problem in that policy. I can confirm from personal experience over 20 years ago that consolidating all sorts of extra and bonus payments into the basic salary solved a major recruitment problem in another transport related industry.

If they are now doing the same with the 15% charge on drinks, I don't see the problem provided the increased salaries offered cover at least the value that was previously distributed.

 

There may of course be winners and losers amongst individual staff, depending on how hard they tried to sell more drinks, but from Cunard's point of view it's worthwhile if it makes it easier to recruit staff.

[tacticalbanjo]

I've only been cruising on Cunard since 2017 but it's always been my understanding that the 15% service charge on drinks was split between the beverage team. If it only went to the person you order from the guy actually making the drinks at the bar would get nothing and the waiter delivering them pockets the lot. How would that be fair?

 

In fact, if you look at Cunard FAQs from 2013 (https://web.archive.org/web/20130709232823/http://www.cunard.com/frequent-questions/) it is clear that this charge is split between beverage and support staff. So not a recent change at all if its been the same for the last decade.

[Victoria2]

25 minutes ago, tacticalbanjo said:

I've only been cruising on Cunard since 2017 but it's always been my understanding that the 15% service charge on drinks was split between the beverage team. If it only went to the person you order from the guy actually making the drinks at the bar would get nothing and the waiter delivering them pockets the lot. How would that be fair?

 

In fact, if you look at Cunard FAQs from 2013 (https://web.archive.org/web/20130709232823/http://www.cunard.com/frequent-questions/) it is clear that this charge is split between beverage and support staff. So not a recent change at all if its been the same for the last decade.

and this is current, or so I’m led to believe on the faq

 

https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/the-cunard-experience/service-charges

[tacticalbanjo]

14 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

and this is current, or so I’m led to believe on the faq

 

https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/the-cunard-experience/service-charges

Yes, it's very clear right now what the deal is with service charges. So why on earth deck chair is acting like there is some sort of new hidden change to bar service charges which is doing waiters out of their rightful tips I don't know.

[alc13]

4 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

and this is current, or so I’m led to believe on the faq

 

https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/the-cunard-experience/service-charges

That's crystal clear, thanks for the link!

 

This is a fair policy, in my opinion.  I gather there are reasons having to do with income tax laws around the world for distinguishing between service charge income and salary/wage income.  The important thing is that the staff are adequately compensated.  Discarding the term "gratuities" is helpful, too.

[Windsurfboy]

A fair policy and clear.

 

What is not clear is their answer to : "why this isn't included in my fare?" in the FAQ shown just below. That is just pure waffle.

[Victoria2]

25 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

A fair policy and clear.

 

What is not clear is their answer to : "why this isn't included in my fare?" in the FAQ shown just below. That is just pure waffle.

Waffle?

We must be reading a different paragraph.

It's quite clear. Up to guests to keep on their account, adjust amount or have it removed.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Victoria2

[Windsurfboy]

12 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Waffle?

We must be reading a different paragraph.

It's quite clear. Up to guests to keep on their account, or not.

 

If Cunard really  cared about giving guests choice to tip or not,  we would all be asked to opt in , as they were forced to do in Germany by the courts. Not to go through effort needed to opt out.

 

Not adding gratuities to fares is simply a way of keeping headline fare low. Of course for QG it's a very small percentage,  but for the cheapest cabins it's more like 10%.

[Host Hattie]

It's also a way of delaying part of the payment. I've never understood why people want to pre-pay or have them included in the price paid months ahead.

I'd rather pay after the event not before. 

[Victoria2]

18 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

If Cunard really  cared about giving guests choice to tip or not,  we would all be asked to opt in , as they were forced to do in Germany by the courts. Not to go through effort needed to opt out.

 

Not adding gratuities to fares is simply a way of keeping headline fare low. Of course for QG it's a very small percentage,  but for the cheapest cabins it's more like 10%.

So it’s not waffle, it’s just you don’t approve of service charge being added as an extra.

 

I would rather it be included in the fare too, but it is what it is at the moment and it’s quite clearly advised.

[D&N]

2 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

It's also a way of delaying part of the payment. I've never understood why people want to pre-pay or have them included in the price paid months ahead.

I'd rather pay after the event not before. 

That's an excellent point.

Perhaps they could slash the headline fares and make gratuities 50% of the total cost but make it much more difficult to opt out, perhaps an obligation to prove service wasn't up to standard. Then everyone could pay later. 🤣

Although with the impact on their cash flow they'd probably go out of business!

[Windsurfboy]

Gratuities should be incorporated into the fare.

 

Opting out either increases prices or hurts staff. There are only two possibilities 

 

A) if Cunard make up difference (as some say)

 

Cunard have all the figures , they can anticipate the cost to them of paying for opt outs. Their only source of money is ultimately fares, to maintain profit margin they will increase fares. Thus under current system those who pay gratuities are paying gratuities plus hidden surcharge to cover opt outs.

 

B) if Cunard don't make up difference 

 

Staff Suffer

 

Neither of these two alternatives are a good outcome.