Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[Dolebludger]

I have said it before, but again,  care not a hoot about the title of “butler”. All I care about are the services rendered. We have cruised on other lines where the stewards are assigned room cleaning plus the same duties of a butler on X, and were assigned fewer suites to accommodate this.  It worked out fine. It appears that X is more interested in talking about job titles than job duties. When we cruised in X suites, we were in CS and RS. We did have a butler then. Our steward only made up our room 2X per day. Other than that, we never met him/her. So we must assume the low level of service the steward delivered would be all we would have without the butler. Thus we say no go.

[zitsky]

29 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

I have said it before, but again,  care not a hoot about the title of “butler”. All I care about are the services rendered. We have cruised on other lines where the stewards are assigned room cleaning plus the same duties of a butler on X, and were assigned fewer suites to accommodate this.  It worked out fine. It appears that X is more interested in talking about job titles than job duties. When we cruised in X suites, we were in CS and RS. We did have a butler then. Our steward only made up our room 2X per day. Other than that, we never met him/her. So we must assume the low level of service the steward delivered would be all we would have without the butler. Thus we say no go.

Sure anyone can be a butler, just like anyone can pilot a cruise ship.  Titles are meaningless.  All butlers do is bring room service and extra toilet paper, right?  They’re just errand boys.  Gee how condescending.

[Jeremiah1212]

On 1/22/2024 at 1:20 PM, Shellyd22 said:

I’m glad everything has been wonderful. Previous posters comment said theirs was “nonexistent”. Why such a big difference in service? Are peoples expectations vastly different or are some people getting way different service in the same suite class? Maybe a little of both? I don’t know but consistency would be nice so people understand what they are purchasing. 

 

This is probably the best summarization of the problem that Celebrity seems to not understand. 

 

Celebrity gave a crumb of an update on this last week to travel agents. The takeaway was basically Sky Suite butlers were eliminated because NPS score (i.e. the survey scores) went down due to slow service received in Sky Suites at peak times of the day. They acknowledged that this new approach didn't work exactly as they thought and that some ships are executing the team approach better than others. They also acknowledged the rumored June dates for "butlers to come back". They said the elusive more to come due to any major change taking a few months to implement. They are hoping between April and June that all ships would be operating with butler service. 

 

They seemed careful to not say that butler service in Sky Suites would return in its original fashion. 

 

This still leaves several months for people onboard different ships and even the same ship in different locations to receive substantially different service and experiences within the same cabin category. They did acknowledge [to quote them] that some times things don't always work as they think and they have to adjust yet again. The continual "adjust yet again" is the growing problem and the source of a lot complaints and dissatisfaction for customers. It's an absolute pain for TA's to keep up with and feel the wrath of unhappy customers. This was the same response they gave for the wine retooling. I'll save that for another post if anyone is interested. 

 

So to address your point that people want to understand what they are purchasing, to be frank between now and June we don't know. We don't know what it will look like or what the job titles or duties of various individuals will be. You may have what feels like amazing butler service of the past or you may have a room attendant and that's it. Or somewhere in between.

 

 

Edited January 29 by Jeremiah1212

[81Zoomie]

@Jeremiah1212, thanks so much for catching us up on Celebrity’s current state of flux. I’d love to hear about the wine when you are ready to let us in on that story 😉.  We will see what we get on our spring Edge sailings and continue to hope for the best.  We have paused any further Celebrity bookings until things settle down and we can assess the product and value.

 

Time will tell for Celebrity, but vacation planning continues!  We did a little comparison shopping on 2025 Transatlantic sailings.  For example, all 13 night sailings in the lowest category of the Retreat versus a luxury option:

 

Apex - $4759 pp

Eclipse - $5499 pp

Ascent* $5849 pp

Silversea Silver Ray* - $3750 pp

*Newest ships in the fleet

 

Like so many others have already expressed, this is an easy value and trust decision for us.  It’s hard to justify paying premium pricing for a declining experience.  We are eager to try something new, with true premium service, at a competitive price.

 

 

[abbydancer2003]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:00 PM, MMMCruiser said:

I can confirm the Facebook post (but I'm not the one who posted it).  I wrote to Celebrity and was also told on the phone that the butlers will back in the Sky Suites by June.  I'll feel better when I see an official statement, but this was really good news for me.  I just hope they follow through.

I've been out for a few days, being on the Connie for 12 days, followed by 3 full days of training to be a poll worker, and then a bit of time with my visiting sister.  She left today, so I've had some time to think about this.

 

My experience on both the Apex and Connie with the "team" approach was good.  On Apex, the head butler introduced himself as we dropped off our bags, and was generally around.  He arranged for coffee every morning and helped us set up our Roku when I called him.  He also confirmed that laundry would take 2 days.  

 

On the Connie, our head butler Tony was always around, set up a party for us, and on mornings that we wanted coffee, he had the same room service guy deliver it (and he plated and poured).  He also offered to bring us drinks during the day, but we didn't need that.

 

So if it was like that on every ship, it would have probably worked, but we talked to a couple of guys who said they had no butler type service on the Equinox at all.  

 

A random musing here ... if they say by June, my guess it it will be rolling.  By ship?  By category of Sky suite (ie, AS, SS, S1).  Or maybe on June xx they'll all join their ships. No one seems to know. The retreat manager on Connie said she thinks it would be a team approach but with a dedicated butler.  I have no idea what she meant, and I'm not sure she did either.  

 

I guess we'll see.  I'm hoping that soon there will reports here of dedicated butlers here.

[Dolebludger]

A return of dedicated butlers would be good news, as the room stewards on X are assigned too few duties, and assigned too many suites to do more. But there are other deficiencies for the price on X that keep its cruises from being a decent deal for the prices now. The rise in drink prices has made the premium package less than inclusion. Included tips in the retreat are gone. Drinks from the mini fridge are at additional charge. Such inclusions are really necessary if lux prices are charged. And more issues exit that didn’t in the last part of the last decade. I want to see actual improvement in all these areas before considering booking another X retreat cruise. 

[happycruiser7]

On 7/29/2023 at 2:17 PM, mnocket said:

Not Carnival - but maybe Royal Caribbean.

 

I've been wondering if the so-called "Premium" cruise lines are now proving to be less profitable than the "Mainstream" brands - hence all the changes that bring the Premium brands more in line with their Mainstream brethren. Perhaps the Premium and Mainstream brands are destined to become nearly identical with the only difference being one it targeted more to adults and the other families with children?  Just a thought.

I mean Royal Caribbean does own and is the sister line of Celebrity and the new president of Celebrity is from Royal Caribbean if I’m correct. They’re absolutely making changes to the line and some of it does seem as though they’re trying to strengthen ties between the 2 lines. So it makes sense. I think Celebrity is still better than Royal Caribbean. 

[Whinenowine]

16 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

This is probably the best summarization of the problem that Celebrity seems to not understand. 

 

Celebrity gave a crumb of an update on this last week to travel agents. The takeaway was basically Sky Suite butlers were eliminated because NPS score (i.e. the survey scores) went down due to slow service received in Sky Suites at peak times of the day. They acknowledged that this new approach didn't work exactly as they thought and that some ships are executing the team approach better than others. They also acknowledged the rumored June dates for "butlers to come back". They said the elusive more to come due to any major change taking a few months to implement. They are hoping between April and June that all ships would be operating with butler service. 

 

They seemed careful to not say that butler service in Sky Suites would return in its original fashion. 

 

This still leaves several months for people onboard different ships and even the same ship in different locations to receive substantially different service and experiences within the same cabin category. They did acknowledge [to quote them] that some times things don't always work as they think and they have to adjust yet again. The continual "adjust yet again" is the growing problem and the source of a lot complaints and dissatisfaction for customers. It's an absolute pain for TA's to keep up with and feel the wrath of unhappy customers. This was the same response they gave for the wine retooling. I'll save that for another post if anyone is interested. 

 

So to address your point that people want to understand what they are purchasing, to be frank between now and June we don't know. We don't know what it will look like or what the job titles or duties of various individuals will be. You may have what feels like amazing butler service of the past or you may have a room attendant and that's it. Or somewhere in between.

Thanks for the great info, @Jeremiah1212.  I'd agree that mistakes happen and should usually be forgiven...but when you're constantly calibrating and recalibrating ad nauseum...then the root problem isn't the decisions themselves, but  management's competence. 

 

btw--I got a kick out of this part:  "They said the elusive more to come due to any major change taking a few months to implement."  I laughed because last summer I booked a last minute cruise on the Edge a month ahead of sail date.  Yet the announced change to SS butler service was announced and implemented in only 3weeks during that month.  Didn't seem to take a few months to take it away!  😇 

[tfred]

17 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

This is probably the best summarization of the problem that Celebrity seems to not understand. 

 

Celebrity gave a crumb of an update on this last week to travel agents. The takeaway was basically Sky Suite butlers were eliminated because NPS score (i.e. the survey scores) went down due to slow service received in Sky Suites at peak times of the day. They acknowledged that this new approach didn't work exactly as they thought and that some ships are executing the team approach better than others. They also acknowledged the rumored June dates for "butlers to come back". They said the elusive more to come due to any major change taking a few months to implement. They are hoping between April and June that all ships would be operating with butler service. 

 

They seemed careful to not say that butler service in Sky Suites would return in its original fashion. 

 

This still leaves several months for people onboard different ships and even the same ship in different locations to receive substantially different service and experiences within the same cabin category. They did acknowledge [to quote them] that some times things don't always work as they think and they have to adjust yet again. The continual "adjust yet again" is the growing problem and the source of a lot complaints and dissatisfaction for customers. It's an absolute pain for TA's to keep up with and feel the wrath of unhappy customers. This was the same response they gave for the wine retooling. I'll save that for another post if anyone is interested. 

 

So to address your point that people want to understand what they are purchasing, to be frank between now and June we don't know. We don't know what it will look like or what the job titles or duties of various individuals will be. You may have what feels like amazing butler service of the past or you may have a room attendant and that's it. Or somewhere in between.

 

 

X is also changing 5 things at one time - and then adjusting them as they find out what works, what doesn't and what causes pax angst

 

Premium wine package that isn't so premium anymore. Getting dinged $2 for grocery store wine when I dropped $10k on a suite 

 

Brown spirits have taken a hit. Macallan is now an up charge and the bourbon selection has taken a hit

 

Butler.  Not important to us but our experience on Crystal River with a butler was superb. Literally minutes from request to delivery of service. 

 

Mini bar.  How could that not be included?   It would eliminate requests for the butler for beer, water of soda 

 

Tips and OBC. This is just another way to increase price. I get it, but it is $1k extra now 

 

 

[Dolebludger]

Let us not forget the huge fare increases that accompanied all these cuts. Even with the cuts, the cruises are still worth something to some people. But not a much higher cost than before the cuts.

[chisoxfan]

43 minutes ago, Whinenowine said:

Thanks for the great info, @Jeremiah1212.  I'd agree that mistakes happen and should usually be forgiven...but when you're constantly calibrating and recalibrating ad nauseum...then the root problem isn't the decisions themselves, but  management's competence. 

 

btw--I got a kick out of this part:  "They said the elusive more to come due to any major change taking a few months to implement."  I laughed because last summer I booked a last minute cruise on the Edge a month ahead of sail date.  Yet the announced change to SS butler service was announced and implemented in only 3weeks during that month.  Didn't seem to take a few months to take it away!  😇 

Great point. Inconsistency is a major issue at X. Without dwelling on 'minor points' on Apex last year no head butler ever introduced himself (not sure there was one) and contact with room attendant was happenstance. On Ascent head butler and attendant introduced themselves on boarding and presented cards which was a nice touch. Either way our room was immaculate and we were fine. On Apex drinks on Retreat pool flowed freely and glass bottles were served at pool which surprised me. Sometimes in the hot tub I was told that I was welcome to have drinks in hand  but they could not serve me there (well some did and some didn't).

On Ascent the Retreat pool game was really interesting. A sign said no glass or food.... perfect and sensible. On first day after drinking all day (not referring to being hammered just that there was no comment made) at the pool an attendant told me alcohol was prohibited? OK I thought. The next day drinks were everywhere. One lady drinking was told no alcohol at pool while myself and others were not harassed sipping our drinks nearby (oh no maybe a X profit center.....drinking around pool is only for more premium packages 🙄).  This became a bit of a running joke. On the last day I overheard (directly behind my lounger and difficult to ignore) a heated argument with a passenger and officer. He was told he could not drink at pool (at least 1000 drinks had been enjoyed there during the week) and stormed off. Returning to the bar he said he had had it with X and the reason he was told no drinks were allowed was because the environmental officer did not want any alcohol tainting his 'testing'.

I know this may sound like much ado about nothing but it shows me management has no control over the situation and in some half hearted attempt to inconsistently please one 'department' they were happy to infuriate their (supposedly) most valued guests. 

[Whinenowine]

16 minutes ago, tfred said:

X is also changing 5 things at one time - and then adjusting them as they find out what works, what doesn't and what causes pax angst

 

Premium wine package that isn't so premium anymore. Getting dinged $2 for grocery store wine when I dropped $10k on a suite 

 

Brown spirits have taken a hit. Macallan is now an up charge and the bourbon selection has taken a hit

 

Butler.  Not important to us but our experience on Crystal River with a butler was superb. Literally minutes from request to delivery of service. 

 

Mini bar.  How could that not be included?   It would eliminate requests for the butler for beer, water of soda 

 

Tips and OBC. This is just another way to increase price. I get it, but it is $1k extra now 

Yes it's the combo of the continuous removal of prior benefits/services simultaneous to large price increases. The August 2023 Edge cruise I took is 62% more expensive in August 2024!  And 2024 doesn't include $320 of tips or $600 in OBC that I got in 2023.  Factoring that in, current pricing is double last year's pricing.

[Whinenowine]

9 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Let us not forget the huge fare increases that accompanied all these cuts. Even with the cuts, the cruises are still worth something to some people. But not a much higher cost than before the cuts.

Sorry, @Dolebludger, our posts crossed in the ether.  Yes, cannot forget the huge price increases in the Retreat, at least.

Edited January 30 by Whinenowine

[billc23]

11 hours ago, 81Zoomie said:

@Jeremiah1212, thanks so much for catching us up on Celebrity’s current state of flux. I’d love to hear about the wine when you are ready to let us in on that story 😉.  We will see what we get on our spring Edge sailings and continue to hope for the best.  We have paused any further Celebrity bookings until things settle down and we can assess the product and value.

 

Time will tell for Celebrity, but vacation planning continues!  We did a little comparison shopping on 2025 Transatlantic sailings.  For example, all 13 night sailings in the lowest category of the Retreat versus a luxury option:

 

Apex - $4759 pp

Eclipse - $5499 pp

Ascent* $5849 pp

Silversea Silver Ray* - $3750 pp

*Newest ships in the fleet

 

Like so many others have already expressed, this is an easy value and trust decision for us.  It’s hard to justify paying premium pricing for a declining experience.  We are eager to try something new, with true premium service, at a competitive price.

 

 

Thanks for show the pricing. Many have posted that they cannot find a luxury line with prices similar to a SS on Celebrity. I have not found that to be a problem

 

Easy choice for me on which ship to choose and most on the Celebrity will disagree. The Silver Ray has not started sailing yet - so it is brand new. All cabins include a butler, in room liquor and more. I know, food is subjective but better ingredients are most important factor and a having a chef who will prepare the dish to your liking is great.

 

Sushi and Raw on Five are fine, but they do incur an uncharge and the quality goes down on a long sailing like a TA. The asian restaurant on Silversea has an uncharge ($40) for dinner (wagyu beef and miso glazed black cod aren't cheap) but not for lunch.  Here are some photos of a chef carving tuna on a Silversea ship at lunch time:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought I would find a luxury cruise line boring, but I did not. Sort of like transitioning from Royal to Celebrity years ago - concerned about not enough to do on Celebrity vs Royal - and I ended up preferring Celebrity. Then again I enjoyed river cruising on a 100 passenger ship and the Flora was great too. So I gave Silversea a try and now prefer it to Celebrity when sailing with my DW. 

[Dolebludger]

billc23: As to cruise price comparison, our next is a 7 night in E. Caribbean on the Regent Splendor. It could be had in the $3500 pp range also. I looked at Silversea (cruised there in the past) as it is excellent. But their itinerary there included Barbados as a start and/or stop port. That port seems to have problems with hotel and transport availability (check out this port here on CC). Regent is much like Silversea, only with included specialty restaurants, included laundry, and a bit less formality.  No butler except at the highest suite levels. But the stewards have more duties, so no problem that I’ve noticed. So Silversea isn’t the only lux line priced below the Retreat

[chisoxfan]

21 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

billc23: As to cruise price comparison, our next is a 7 night in E. Caribbean on the Regent Splendor. It could be had in the $3500 pp range also. I looked at Silversea (cruised there in the past) as it is excellent. But their itinerary there included Barbados as a start and/or stop port. That port seems to have problems with hotel and transport availability (check out this port here on CC). Regent is much like Silversea, only with included specialty restaurants, included laundry, and a bit less formality.  No butler except at the highest suite levels. But the stewards have more duties, so no problem that I’ve noticed. So Silversea isn’t the only lux line priced below the Retreat

Appreciate the comments here that are dwelling down to the 'value equation'.

Maybe a new player not high end but promising is Princess. Their new Sun Princess has a dedicated suite area (pool, lounge, restaurant) and looking at options for our next Jan 'getaway' this may work for us.  Hate to cite pricing that always changes but for us Ascent SS(same cabin we had last week) was over 10k with non refundable deposit, MSC YC 6k with non refundable deposit and Princess 6k fully refundable. Princess is new 175k ton ship. Everything is included (grats, 4 device wi-fi, drinks to 20, unlimited spa access, some specialty dining, mini bar set up). Anyway maybe a new player in 'suites' and we are willing to try it. 

I understand the  focus on luxury lines and understand value vs. X Retreat but as I looked at Regent in Jan. ship was 25k tons. My wife and I enjoy the options of a larger ship and in place of smaller ship probably would look more at All Inclusives which are a great option but sometimes don't have the 'energy' of a cruise. My opinion for what it is worth.

[Dolebludger]

Large main stream and premium ships can get a little hectic in “non suite” areas, but having a”suite” area on one of these gives the benefit of peace and quiet when you want and more onboard activities when you want. The Princess deal sounds good for those options.

 

Just a correction about Regent. The newer ships (Explorer, Splendor, and Grandeur) are about 55 tons, and have max double occupancy capacity of 756 guests. They have numerous restaurants and lounges. I don’t know what in the current Regent fleet is as small as 25tons — maybe the Navigator that holds 490 guests. I agree that its facilities are a bit limited to suit many cruisers.

Edited January 30 by Dolebludger

[Adowsett]

14 hours ago, abbydancer2003 said:

I've been out for a few days, being on the Connie for 12 days, followed by 3 full days of training to be a poll worker, and then a bit of time with my visiting sister.  She left today, so I've had some time to think about this.

 

My experience on both the Apex and Connie with the "team" approach was good.  On Apex, the head butler introduced himself as we dropped off our bags, and was generally around.  He arranged for coffee every morning and helped us set up our Roku when I called him.  He also confirmed that laundry would take 2 days.  

 

On the Connie, our head butler Tony was always around, set up a party for us, and on mornings that we wanted coffee, he had the same room service guy deliver it (and he plated and poured).  He also offered to bring us drinks during the day, but we didn't need that.

 

So if it was like that on every ship, it would have probably worked, but we talked to a couple of guys who said they had no butler type service on the Equinox at all.  

 

A random musing here ... if they say by June, my guess it it will be rolling.  By ship?  By category of Sky suite (ie, AS, SS, S1).  Or maybe on June xx they'll all join their ships. No one seems to know. The retreat manager on Connie said she thinks it would be a team approach but with a dedicated butler.  I have no idea what she meant, and I'm not sure she did either.  

 

I guess we'll see.  I'm hoping that soon there will reports here of dedicated butlers here.

I have booked a Sky Suite on Connie in September.  It was booked last August and was advertised as "Dedicated Butler", now it reads "Retreat butler and Team".  It seems every time I log onto forums I am finding out services are less and less, and every opportunity CC are trying to earn more bucks.  My Big mistake was not realising CC don't have laundry/ironing rooms.  We iron everything daily, so it's already going to be costly using their services on board.  On the PLUS , our package included gratuities before the new automatic system was launch.  

[chisoxfan]

36 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Large main stream and premium ships can get a little hectic in “non suite” areas, but having a”suite” area on one of these gives the benefit of peace and quiet when you want and more onboard activities when you want. The Princess deal sounds good for those options.

 

Just a correction about Regent. The newer ships (Explorer, Splendor, and Grandeur) are about 55 tons, and have max double occupancy capacity of 756 guests. They have numerous restaurants and lounges. I don’t know what in the current Regent fleet is as small as 25tons — maybe the Navigator that holds 490 guests. I agree that its facilities are a bit limited to suit many cruisers.

Yes the cruise that we looked at was Navigator. We never had an interest in the Royal Caribbean mega class ships and liked YC on MSC but rarely ventured outside. That was a nice thing on X that we could enjoy the entire ship and hope Princess may afford this.

[Whinenowine]

2 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Just a correction about Regent. The newer ships (Explorer, Splendor, and Grandeur) are about 55 tons, and have max double occupancy capacity of 756 guests. They have numerous restaurants and lounges. I don’t know what in the current Regent fleet is as small as 25tons — maybe the Navigator that holds 490 guests. I agree that its facilities are a bit limited to suit many cruisers.

Yeah we've enjoyed our X cruises, which have been on E and M class ships (alas, no S class).  But I think the sweet spot for us is generally 55-70 tons. Captures the new Regent, SilverSea and Oceania ships.  We sailed once on one of the smaller SilverSea ships (I think the Whisper), and while we enjoyed the itinerary, food and fellow passengers, the ship was just too small for us.  

[mac_tlc]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:09 PM, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

 

 

This still leaves several months for people onboard different ships and even the same ship in different locations to receive substantially different service and experiences within the same cabin category. They did acknowledge [to quote them] that some times things don't always work as they think and they have to adjust yet again. The continual "adjust yet again" is the growing problem and the source of a lot complaints and dissatisfaction for customers. It's an absolute pain for TA's to keep up with and feel the wrath of unhappy customers. This was the same response they gave for the wine retooling. I'll save that for another post if anyone is interested. 

 

So to address your point that people want to understand what they are purchasing, to be frank between now and June we don't know. We don't know what it will look like or what the job titles or duties of various individuals will be. You may have what feels like amazing butler service of the past or you may have a room attendant and that's it. Or somewhere in between.

 

 

 

If they want a glaring example of inconsistent service on the same ship, check out my summary of the issue on the LIVE thread from the Ascent last week, and @Mrs_Tiki experience on the same ship but in a different SS area. However, at the end of the day, their suite prices are just too high given the service, or non-service, they are providing, along will all of the cuts and policy changes they have made to lessen the experience. 

 

mac_tlc

[mac_tlc]

21 hours ago, 81Zoomie said:

@Jeremiah1212, thanks so much for catching us up on Celebrity’s current state of flux. I’d love to hear about the wine when you are ready to let us in on that story 😉.  We will see what we get on our spring Edge sailings and continue to hope for the best.  We have paused any further Celebrity bookings until things settle down and we can assess the product and value.

 

Time will tell for Celebrity, but vacation planning continues!  We did a little comparison shopping on 2025 Transatlantic sailings.  For example, all 13 night sailings in the lowest category of the Retreat versus a luxury option:

 

Apex - $4759 pp

Eclipse - $5499 pp

Ascent* $5849 pp

Silversea Silver Ray* - $3750 pp

*Newest ships in the fleet

 

Like so many others have already expressed, this is an easy value and trust decision for us.  It’s hard to justify paying premium pricing for a declining experience.  We are eager to try something new, with true premium service, at a competitive price.

 

 

Oceania Vista Fall 2025 TA is 14 days and we got a Penthouse Suite (PH2) for $4,590pp. I think the lowest category was around $3,800. By Fall 2025, Vista will be the second newest ship as Allura comes out in 2025. 

 

mac_tlc

[MMMCruiser]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:09 PM, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

This is probably the best summarization of the problem that Celebrity seems to not understand. 

 

Celebrity gave a crumb of an update on this last week to travel agents. The takeaway was basically Sky Suite butlers were eliminated because NPS score (i.e. the survey scores) went down due to slow service received in Sky Suites at peak times of the day. They acknowledged that this new approach didn't work exactly as they thought and that some ships are executing the team approach better than others. They also acknowledged the rumored June dates for "butlers to come back". They said the elusive more to come due to any major change taking a few months to implement. They are hoping between April and June that all ships would be operating with butler service. 

 

They seemed careful to not say that butler service in Sky Suites would return in its original fashion. 

 

This still leaves several months for people onboard different ships and even the same ship in different locations to receive substantially different service and experiences within the same cabin category. They did acknowledge [to quote them] that some times things don't always work as they think and they have to adjust yet again. The continual "adjust yet again" is the growing problem and the source of a lot complaints and dissatisfaction for customers. It's an absolute pain for TA's to keep up with and feel the wrath of unhappy customers. This was the same response they gave for the wine retooling. I'll save that for another post if anyone is interested. 

 

So to address your point that people want to understand what they are purchasing, to be frank between now and June we don't know. We don't know what it will look like or what the job titles or duties of various individuals will be. You may have what feels like amazing butler service of the past or you may have a room attendant and that's it. Or somewhere in between.

 

 

Thanks so much for sharing this.  It's good to see backup/confirmation on the June date even though we don't really know what they are going to do.  

 

I booked a suite with a dedicated butler, not a team that I have to constantly text.  I really hope I get what I paid for since it was part of the decision to jump ship from another line and give X a try.  

 

I'm tired of people asking why I care or what I want a butler to do for me.  If I agree to purchase a car with red racing stripes they can't just slip in another model with no stripes, even if other people think that red racing stripes are tacky or stupid.  I don't intend to ask for much (perhaps a coffee and pastry or breakfast in the mornings and some water and snacks in the afternoon) but I want what I paid for. 

 

If anyone is still reading, I see lots of talk about Silver, Regent, and Oceania.  What are your thoughts on Viking?

[notscb]

On 7/29/2023 at 2:17 PM, mnocket said:

Not Carnival - but maybe Royal Caribbean.

When it's all part of the same group, it's more likely to be similar than different.

[Dolebludger]

Actually, when we took two Retreat cruises in the very, very late 2010s, we thought we had found our new cruise line and accommodations. We received ALMOST all the personal service we had on lux lines, but for a much lesser price that made us forget what we didn’t get compared to the lux lines. Plus, we got a much larger suite for less price. So flash forward to 2022 - 2023. The pandemic is over — so we are told — so we start shopping for cruises. I look at the Retreat. And, by magic, the prices have doubled. And I look at what is included, and the list is shrinking.  Every time I look. I think “what the heck” and look at my familiar lux lines, and find them still with more perks and inclusions, and at less cost.  So what do I do? I take a lux cruise to Alaska in summer, 2023. And guess what? I find the service and inclusions to be better than they were pre-pandemic! Less cost than in the Retreat. So we wanted to do a Caribbean cruise (hadn’t done one for 16 years) and did price comparison again. Once again, the Retreat looses against a traditional lux line. Then, we wanted to book a cruise from London to visit the WWII sites of Normandy, Dunkirk, etc. Once again, we priced the Retreat against a traditional lux line — and the latter won price-wise by a large margin.

 

Now, when I post that X is pricing it’s near - lux Retreat above the price of a true lux cruise, and is cutting inclusions and perks seemingly everyday, some don’t believe me. I have no grudge against X. It supplied us with two great cruises (great deals) immediately before the pandemic. We just wish it would do it again. But when X got into the Retreat business, it was competing with the lux lines — whether intended or not. I guess it still is, but now it is loosing.