Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[mac_tlc]

8 minutes ago, MMMCruiser said:

 

 

If anyone is still reading, I see lots of talk about Silver, Regent, and Oceania.  What are your thoughts on Viking?

Lately, we have started looking at all of the ones you mentioned. At least for the itineraries we have looked at, Viking seems more expensive than O, SS, RSSC. Their payment terms are a bit onerous, but we have not discarded them yet. 

 

They do have my favorite itinerary -- 

 

 

[Dolebludger]

Well, Viking is the #1 rated ocean cruising line in some categories. One reason may be their $14 pppd ‘all inclusive package. Without it, only wine and beer is included with only lunch and dinner. But this is the least expensive “upgrade” I’ve seen. Their ships carry only about 1K guests. Though I have never cruised on Viking Ocean, it does all sound pretty good. But I certainly would not pay more for Viking Ocean than on SS or RSSC. Those two lines are the best I’ve seen in lux cruising.

[billc23]

2 hours ago, mac_tlc said:

 

 However, at the end of the day, their suite prices are just too high given the service, or non-service, they are providing, along will all of the cuts and policy changes they have made to lessen the experience. 

 

mac_tlc

That is the problem - too high a price for what is delivered compared to the competition. If one is paying $40k+ for a seven day cruise for 2, how is it justifiable in anyones world to charge an extra $2.40 for a drink made with common liquor or a 6oz pour of wine that I can buy for $20.00 a bottle??? 

 

I have always enjoyed Princess cruises and will look into the new ship chisoxfax mentioned. It sounds like a great alternative to Celebrity. When traveling with family I need an alternative and I have a few MSC cruises booked.  I will look at the new Princess ship going forward. 

 

I really enjoy Silversea and plan to try the other luxury lines, but from my research Silversea seems to be the best fit for me and my DW. In a week my DW and I embark on a 32 day Silversea sailing followed by 53 days on the Celebrity Solstice. The experience will be interesting... I will have a butler on all sailings so it should be a nice comparison. The Celebrity portion is 47% more expensive on a per day basis and does not include excursions. Oh, the Celebrity booking date is March, 2022 before the recent price increases! Where is the value??

 

 

[CruiseRQA]

On 1/22/2024 at 12:46 PM, Dolebludger said:

 But in the Retreat (and on the rest of an X suite I assume) the steward only makes up the suite twice a day. 

Oh dear!  Your suite only got made up twice a day??   The horror of it all. 

[The_Big_M]

12 hours ago, CruiseRQA said:

Oh dear!  Your suite only got made up twice a day??   The horror of it all. 

 

Our last suite attendant decided ours would only be made once a day. Had an argument about it with her and didn't get anywhere, then had to escalate to head of housekeeping, who ultimately just semi apologized for the 'misunderstanding and miscommunication', and resolved for the future.

 

Yep, great suite experience...

[Whinenowine]

15 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Now, when I post that X is pricing it’s near - lux Retreat above the price of a true lux cruise, and is cutting inclusions and perks seemingly everyday, some don’t believe me. I have no grudge against X. It supplied us with two great cruises (great deals) immediately before the pandemic. We just wish it would do it again. But when X got into the Retreat business, it was competing with the lux lines — whether intended or not. I guess it still is, but now it is loosing. 

It's going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out over the next 1-2 years. How much of the old guard will leave X for greener lux pastures and how many of the new ('affluent and younger') cruisers will stick with Celebrity.  Money is only part of the calculus for what line people chose...but I think that bad combo of 'paying more for less' will eventually catch up with X.

[tomcruiser1234]

Well. This is our 4th night of 7 on Apex and in a Sky suite ( first on an Edge Ship)    Butler arrangement is very different. You have to learn how to use the new system or you will be really mad. 

 

The Head Butler is Joey. He comes and meets you the first day. Promises the world but you got to make plans on things you want. Call him everyday and give h,I’m your list. My  Mrs. Likes a late breakfast in the room but if you have an early excursion you will need to pick a time that works.  Nobody stands at the door asking you what you want so  make the calls and ask.  So far we have gotten what we want. Not the same but…..if were going to pay then were gonna ask for what we want.. nicely and maybe often. 

 

Competition will make things right. 

 

Edge Class is super and the re

[tomcruiser1234]

The retreat lounge and sitting area is stunning 

[tfred]

1 hour ago, Whinenowine said:

It's going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out over the next 1-2 years. How much of the old guard will leave X for greener lux pastures and how many of the new ('affluent and younger') cruisers will stick with Celebrity.  Money is only part of the calculus for what line people chose...but I think that bad combo of 'paying more for less' will eventually catch up with X.

I did read an interview from Barbara Muckerman CEO of Silversea in USA Today 

 

"When it came to designing (Silver) Nova, we knew we were going to take the traditional luxury cruise route," Muckermann said, explaining that Silversea custom designs their new ships according to their itineraries. "So, who are the main competitors? It's really, land-based resorts."

 

If you traditionally were on land then you have no idea of what it was like 2 years ago on a ship. There are WAY more land vacationers with money to chase after rather than trying to woo grumpy "where's my prime rib every night?" cruisers  

 

I have spent enough vacations on land (mostly Marriott resorts) to know that the experience on a ship is pretty good compared to a Marriott resort. In fact, it can be cheaper to be on a ship when you add in all the food and booze a la carte 

 

"Cruising has changed. Today really represents an incredible value, independently from which segment you decide to join," Silversea Cruises President Barbara Muckermann told USA TODAY during a press preview of Silver Nova earlier this month. "The kind of luxury cruise service you get here – and you can decide to compare to whatever luxury establishment it is – but I assure you it can be 30 to 40% cheaper here. Still offering the same, if not better, service."

[Dolebludger]

15 hours ago, CruiseRQA said:

 

15 hours ago, CruiseRQA said:

Edited January 31 by Dolebludger

[Dolebludger]

First, I have no idea where the post above came from. I didn’t do it.

 

i disagree with the Silversea CEO. Its competition is not land based resorts. I feel that most cruisers agree with me (even lux line cruisers) in feeling that lux land resorts are rip-offs. We have never stayed at a land resort that wasn’t all inclusive. Wouldn’t touch one that is ala carte, especially if it is remote from other providers of food and drink. In that case you are paying to plant yourself in the middle of a monopoly. And even with good all inclusive resorts, we only stay a few days. When you have experienced the place, everything becomes a repeat after about three nights. And with the problems with flying these days, it is too much trouble for a stay that short. 
 

Silversea’s competition is other cruise lines — mostly other lux lines but also other lines with ships with separate lux or near lux areas. When we are looking at a Silversea cruise (or any cruise) we never have checked the deal against some lux ala carte land resort. Never. We check its deal against other lux lines. We’ve cruised Silversea before and loved it. If they would get rid of formal nights and include valet laundry for all guests, we’ cruise it more often. But never visit a lux Ala carte land resort.

[billc23]

36 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

...But never visit a lux Ala carte land resort.

For a land based beach vacation Aruba is great. Consistently great weather year round, so consistent there are no real weather reports. Stay at a nice hotel on Eagle beach - do not do an all inclusive. Rent a car and travel around the island. Great restaurants and bars all around. Very different experience than most other Caribbean islands.

[markeb]

45 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

First, I have no idea where the post above came from. I didn’t do it.

 

i disagree with the Silversea CEO. Its competition is not land based resorts. I feel that most cruisers agree with me (even lux line cruisers) in feeling that lux land resorts are rip-offs. We have never stayed at a land resort that wasn’t all inclusive. Wouldn’t touch one that is ala carte, especially if it is remote from other providers of food and drink. In that case you are paying to plant yourself in the middle of a monopoly. And even with good all inclusive resorts, we only stay a few days. When you have experienced the place, everything becomes a repeat after about three nights. And with the problems with flying these days, it is too much trouble for a stay that short. 
 

Silversea’s competition is other cruise lines — mostly other lux lines but also other lines with ships with separate lux or near lux areas. When we are looking at a Silversea cruise (or any cruise) we never have checked the deal against some lux ala carte land resort. Never. We check its deal against other lux lines. We’ve cruised Silversea before and loved it. If they would get rid of formal nights and include valet laundry for all guests, we’ cruise it more often. But never visit a lux Ala carte land resort.

 

So you just described exactly why a smart brand president (she's not a CEO either in the RCG org chart) would be targeting land based vacationers. By comparison, Silversea (or frankly Celebrity) is very much a luxury experience. And there are far more people taking land vacations each year than cruises. Skim some of that market onto Silversea and Celebrity.

 

And frankly, Silversea is a subordinate of RCG. RCG would like to retain its best (most profitable, not necessarily most frequent) customers. But moving them from Celebrity to Silversea isn't a net gain. Bringing in new cruisers (truly new, not brand changers) who want to try something different or are disillusioned with land-based resorts is a net gain to the corporation.

 

You're looking at her comments from the point of view of someone who already cruises, not someone who hasn't.

[paulh84]

1 hour ago, Dolebludger said:

First, I have no idea where the post above came from. I didn’t do it.

 

i disagree with the Silversea CEO. Its competition is not land based resorts. I feel that most cruisers agree with me (even lux line cruisers) in feeling that lux land resorts are rip-offs. We have never stayed at a land resort that wasn’t all inclusive. Wouldn’t touch one that is ala carte, especially if it is remote from other providers of food and drink. In that case you are paying to plant yourself in the middle of a monopoly. And even with good all inclusive resorts, we only stay a few days. When you have experienced the place, everything becomes a repeat after about three nights. And with the problems with flying these days, it is too much trouble for a stay that short. 
 

Silversea’s competition is other cruise lines — mostly other lux lines but also other lines with ships with separate lux or near lux areas. When we are looking at a Silversea cruise (or any cruise) we never have checked the deal against some lux ala carte land resort. Never. We check its deal against other lux lines. We’ve cruised Silversea before and loved it. If they would get rid of formal nights and include valet laundry for all guests, we’ cruise it more often. But never visit a lux Ala carte land resort.

 

They type of customer they are after is the luxury land resort customer that will spend the $22 on a cocktail, $300 for lunch by the pool and $1,200 for a chef to come to your villa to make breakfast. All Inclusive (even the ones that claim the are luxury...are not) and someone who actually spends at a lux resort property are two different types of people. These people are not the ones chasing the best deal or maximizing value for the dollar. Jason Liberty has said for months they are trying to close the gap between the cruiser value and land resort prices by raising the cruise price. When the two options are more comparable in price they need to grab some of those Four Seasons, Montage, One and Only, Grace Bay Club type customers who are dropping $50k for week stays. 

[Dolebludger]

1 hour ago, paulh84 said:

 

They type of customer they are after is the luxury land resort customer that will spend the $22 on a cocktail, $300 for lunch by the pool and $1,200 for a chef to come to your villa to make breakfast. All Inclusive (even the ones that claim the are luxury...are not) and someone who actually spends at a lux resort property are two different types of people. These people are not the ones chasing the best deal or maximizing value for the dollar. Jason Liberty has said for months they are trying to close the gap between the cruiser value and land resort prices by raising the cruise price. When the two options are more comparable in price they need to grab some of those Four Seasons, Montage, One and Only, Grace Bay Club type customers who are dropping $50k for week stays. 

Silversea should be able to grab customers as you describe. If it is trying to get customers who are willing to pay those land resort prices, they should succeed as it offers more for less. Makes me wonder how those lux land resort customers got to the point of spending like that, while spending like that.

Edited January 31 by Dolebludger

[samofam]

Recently did 12 days sky suite on Constellation. This was our second experience of 'no dedicated butler'. As with many others, when we booked and made final payment 'dedicated butler' was included. Celebrity is digging in their heels about NO compensation for the elimination of the butlers.

 

'Dedicated butler' did not mean they only served us but usually the butlers had approx. 12 rooms each to service. Yes, because of health issues we did make use of the help to unpack.

 

Our cabin steward Christian was outstanding and tried magnificently to make up for no butler. He worked so hard and was constantly in a sweat. The head butler Tony also worked very hard and provided a tablecloth for our balcony lunch and brought drinks to us in the show lounge.

 

We were told butlers would be brought back, no details.

 

One premium wine was re-introduced and we were told that more would be coming back.

 

Retreat lounge provided the better brandy that was normally now a $2.00(plus tip) upcharge but did not charge. I  think many of the staff are really embarrassed by the cut-backs.

 

Also, the Zenith lunch was not provided, nor was there a substitution such as to send the guest to a specialty restaurant.

 

For the last several years we have always had approx. 5-7 Celebrity cruises on our upcoming future cruises list, where we have paid the deposit. On most cruises we would also make a new booking while onboard.

Future cruises department was NOT busy on our last couple of cruises and one of the salespeople told me suite sales are way down.

We have one more cruise in March in Aqua class. With our Zenith benefits we do get pretty good perks. We will see how this goes. We still have gratuities included from when we booked. But if they've not improved the premium wines, or the food in Blu has been cut in quality, this will be our last Celebrity cruise.

On 1/30/2024 at 9:33 AM, tfred said:

X is also changing 5 things at one time - and then adjusting them as they find out what works, what doesn't and what causes pax angst

 

Premium wine package that isn't so premium anymore. Getting dinged $2 for grocery store wine when I dropped $10k on a suite 

 

Brown spirits have taken a hit. Macallan is now an up charge and the bourbon selection has taken a hit

 

Butler.  Not important to us but our experience on Crystal River with a butler was superb. Literally minutes from request to delivery of service. 

 

Mini bar.  How could that not be included?   It would eliminate requests for the butler for beer, water of soda 

 

Tips and OBC. This is just another way to increase price. I get it, but it is $1k extra now 

 

 

 

[terrydtx]

We returned last week from 22 days B2B on the Edge in Australia and New Zealand in a Sky Suite. There were several changes from our first non butler SS cruise last September on the Apex. First our room attendant had the title "Retreat Host" on his card, on the Apex that title was not given. I was able to call him directly anytime of day for things we needed, like ice and having our cabin made up when we left in the mornings and evenings. The other change, we prefer to have breakfast in our cabin every morning and we had the same crew member deliver our order every morning of the cruise, he got to know what we liked and disliked about our orders, and he would call our cabin every morning just before delivery. He even offered to set up our table and pour our first cup of coffee. This service was just like what we got from our old butler service and was not available on the Apex when breakfast was never delivered by the same person. Having the same delivery person also made it easy to give him an extra tip for the whole cruise.

 

Our Retreat Host was just as efficient as any previous butler with the exceptions of not being able to deliver drinks from the bar or stock our mini bar with drinks as was done prior to the butler changes. He did keep a good supply of bottled water in our cabin and fridge at no charge to us, not Evian like in the past, but the water was a good quality spring water produced in New Zealand. We tried to get Vitamin water as in the past but it was not available on the ship anymore.

 

I did discuss the butler changes with our Retreat Host and he confirmed that Celebrity was going to bring back dedicated butlers as soon as they could be hired and trained. He was leaving the Edge after our cruise and going home for a 2 month visit and then starting a new contract on the Ascent as a new dedicated butler. 

 

We were very disappointed with the deficiencies on the Apex by not having a butler, but our Edge experience was so much better. For now we are taking a break from Celebrity to wait and see how the changes are going. However, the one thing that will keep us away are the ridiculous SS pricing of future cruises and I do not see those prices dropping as long as people continue to book them.

[chisoxfan]

9 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

We returned last week from 22 days B2B on the Edge in Australia and New Zealand in a Sky Suite. There were several changes from our first non butler SS cruise last September on the Apex. First our room attendant had the title "Retreat Host" on his card, on the Apex that title was not given. I was able to call him directly anytime of day for things we needed, like ice and having our cabin made up when we left in the mornings and evenings. The other change, we prefer to have breakfast in our cabin every morning and we had the same crew member deliver our order every morning of the cruise, he got to know what we liked and disliked about our orders, and he would call our cabin every morning just before delivery. He even offered to set up our table and pour our first cup of coffee. This service was just like what we got from our old butler service and was not available on the Apex when breakfast was never delivered by the same person. Having the same delivery person also made it easy to give him an extra tip for the whole cruise.

 

Our Retreat Host was just as efficient as any previous butler with the exceptions of not being able to deliver drinks from the bar or stock our mini bar with drinks as was done prior to the butler changes. He did keep a good supply of bottled water in our cabin and fridge at no charge to us, not Evian like in the past, but the water was a good quality spring water produced in New Zealand. We tried to get Vitamin water as in the past but it was not available on the ship anymore.

 

I did discuss the butler changes with our Retreat Host and he confirmed that Celebrity was going to bring back dedicated butlers as soon as they could be hired and trained. He was leaving the Edge after our cruise and going home for a 2 month visit and then starting a new contract on the Ascent as a new dedicated butler. 

 

We were very disappointed with the deficiencies on the Apex by not having a butler, but our Edge experience was so much better. For now we are taking a break from Celebrity to wait and see how the changes are going. However, the one thing that will keep us away are the ridiculous SS pricing of future cruises and I do not see those prices dropping as long as people continue to book them.

Thanks for you report. As outlined earlier a big issue with X seems to be their inconsistencies. On Apex 10 night in SS we never met a head butler. On Ascent he (head butler) and the room attendant introduced themselves on boarding and gave us cards which I thought was a nice touch. We had room service breakfast on Ascent the first morning and the head butler appeared to help arrange tables, etc. Great I thought..... but we did not see him again during the cruise. While we don't need a butler,etc. one is struck by the inconsistency between ships, etc. ie. what are we really getting on any cruise? That is not a good look.  Sorry to beat the price drum again but we booked Sun Princess next Jan in suite with a ton of things included and then on to HAL with (at least) a dedicated suite dining room as part of their Club Orange. Total price for both cruises and refundable deposits was the same as Ascent SS one week with non refundable. We like the E Class but are way more excited with the fantastic live music of HAL and trying a new Princess 'super ship'. We are not sure what we are going to get but have some of the 'old anticipation' that we used to feel when cruising. The X 'excitement' factor seems to be 'what have they cut corners on and how much are they going to increase pricing' for drinks, specialty dinners, etc. JMHO

[cruisefam38]

terrydtx, I appreciate your critical reviews, which do include giving credit when and where it is due. 

We will enjoy our cruise on Beyond next month, and I retain hope for the quality service we have always received from Celebrity shipboard staff.

[abbydancer2003]

58 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

We returned last week from 22 days B2B on the Edge in Australia and New Zealand in a Sky Suite. There were several changes from our first non butler SS cruise last September on the Apex. First our room attendant had the title "Retreat Host" on his card, on the Apex that title was not given. I was able to call him directly anytime of day for things we needed, like ice and having our cabin made up when we left in the mornings and evenings. The other change, we prefer to have breakfast in our cabin every morning and we had the same crew member deliver our order every morning of the cruise, he got to know what we liked and disliked about our orders, and he would call our cabin every morning just before delivery. He even offered to set up our table and pour our first cup of coffee. This service was just like what we got from our old butler service and was not available on the Apex when breakfast was never delivered by the same person. Having the same delivery person also made it easy to give him an extra tip for the whole cruise.

 

Our Retreat Host was just as efficient as any previous butler with the exceptions of not being able to deliver drinks from the bar or stock our mini bar with drinks as was done prior to the butler changes. He did keep a good supply of bottled water in our cabin and fridge at no charge to us, not Evian like in the past, but the water was a good quality spring water produced in New Zealand. We tried to get Vitamin water as in the past but it was not available on the ship anymore.

 

I did discuss the butler changes with our Retreat Host and he confirmed that Celebrity was going to bring back dedicated butlers as soon as they could be hired and trained. He was leaving the Edge after our cruise and going home for a 2 month visit and then starting a new contract on the Ascent as a new dedicated butler. 

 

We were very disappointed with the deficiencies on the Apex by not having a butler, but our Edge experience was so much better. For now we are taking a break from Celebrity to wait and see how the changes are going. However, the one thing that will keep us away are the ridiculous SS pricing of future cruises and I do not see those prices dropping as long as people continue to book them.

Terry, thanks for this.  We were on the Apex in December, and had a somewhat different experience.  We met our head butler when we dropped our bags, and he made sure the soda we wanted was there.  He also arranged for coffee every morning, which was delivered by one of two different people.  We don't use the butler a lot anyway, and he was helpful in the rare time we needed him.

 

Next was 12 days in the Connie.  Our head butler was very visible, and we'd call him on mornings we wanted coffee, and a specific room service person would deliver it, and offer to pour.  When we wanted a small party in the room for with friends traveling with us, he arranged it, and the food was delivered by both our room service guy and him.  

 

I just disembarked the Beyond and our head butler seemed to be hurt when we didn't call him.  I was heading to the lounge to ask a question (we were having issues with our phone) I ran into him and he seemed hurt that I didn't call him.  His face lit up later when I asked him to bring my sister a sangria (she's got torn tendons so not very mobile right now).  

 

From our perspective, we haven't seen a service disruption, but I know others have.  Maybe if they'd been more consistent, they wouldn't have had to back pedel. That said,  I'm happy for the butlers getting their jobs back, as midcruise I ran into our last dedicated butler, who's now an assistant waiter, but will have his butler job back next month.

[Dolebludger]

Terry, I see you mention that the return of butlers to SS is waiting on hiring and training new butlers. Makes me wonder what happened to the old butlers that served SS up until a few months ago.

[abbydancer2003]

4 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Terry, I see you mention that the return of butlers to SS is waiting on hiring and training new butlers. Makes me wonder what happened to the old butlers that served SS up until a few months ago.

Some are coming back, but I’m sure some have moved on. 
 

A butler told new friends of ours that his friends who had been laid off were called about returning.   

Edited February 19 by abbydancer2003

[mac_tlc]

6 hours ago, terrydtx said:

We returned last week from 22 days B2B on the Edge in Australia and New Zealand in a Sky Suite. There were several changes from our first non butler SS cruise last September on the Apex. First our room attendant had the title "Retreat Host" on his card, on the Apex that title was not given. I was able to call him directly anytime of day for things we needed, like ice and having our cabin made up when we left in the mornings and evenings. The other change, we prefer to have breakfast in our cabin every morning and we had the same crew member deliver our order every morning of the cruise, he got to know what we liked and disliked about our orders, and he would call our cabin every morning just before delivery. He even offered to set up our table and pour our first cup of coffee. This service was just like what we got from our old butler service and was not available on the Apex when breakfast was never delivered by the same person. Having the same delivery person also made it easy to give him an extra tip for the whole cruise.

 

Our Retreat Host was just as efficient as any previous butler with the exceptions of not being able to deliver drinks from the bar or stock our mini bar with drinks as was done prior to the butler changes. He did keep a good supply of bottled water in our cabin and fridge at no charge to us, not Evian like in the past, but the water was a good quality spring water produced in New Zealand. We tried to get Vitamin water as in the past but it was not available on the ship anymore.

 

I did discuss the butler changes with our Retreat Host and he confirmed that Celebrity was going to bring back dedicated butlers as soon as they could be hired and trained. He was leaving the Edge after our cruise and going home for a 2 month visit and then starting a new contract on the Ascent as a new dedicated butler. 

 

We were very disappointed with the deficiencies on the Apex by not having a butler, but our Edge experience was so much better. For now we are taking a break from Celebrity to wait and see how the changes are going. However, the one thing that will keep us away are the ridiculous SS pricing of future cruises and I do not see those prices dropping as long as people continue to book them.

Sounds like your experience was excellent. Our “butler” experience on Ascent was nothing like that, although we do love that class of ship. 
 

Just got on Beyond today for 11 days. We shall see what that experience is like.

 

mac_tlc

[abbydancer2003]

1 hour ago, mac_tlc said:

Sounds like your experience was excellent. Our “butler” experience on Ascent was nothing like that, although we do love that class of ship. 
 

Just got on Beyond today for 11 days. We shall see what that experience is like.

 

mac_tlc

If you get George you’ll be well taken care of.  

[mac_tlc]

51 minutes ago, abbydancer2003 said:

If you get George you’ll be well taken care of.  

According to the card in our cabin our head butler is Elizer, but we have not met him/her yet. 
 

We did meet the stateroom attendant, I mean Retreat Host, this afternoon. 
 

mac_tlc