Cruise Parking - Iona

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

@Selbourne

 

Update on this. CPS should be ready now for 11am.

 

Boarding times are now being given out from 11.45 with effort being made to board from midday. I’m told that they have been slowly getting earlier since Easter, so my experience may not be truely up to date.

 

The push to board earlier is to reduce the requirement for queueing outside.

Thank you. I am extremely grateful for your update. I’m going to aim to arrive at the terminal at around 11.15 to allow for any CPS queues to drop the car off and the fact that I cannot push my wife and deal with the cases simultaneously, so will need to make a few trips back and forth before we will be ready to enter the terminal. Hopefully, as we have a 12pm priority boarding slot and have booked assistance, if this takes less time than planned and we approach the terminal a little early, we might be allowed in to wait in the assistance area? I don’t fancy standing outside in this weather 😂 

 

On another matter, I managed to book all our speciality restaurants by staying up until midnight last night (glad I did, many slots have since gone), but no sign of the shows yet. There seems to be varying feedback on when these should be released. Any idea? Thanks. 

[molecrochip]

The two pinch points are security (embarkation) and the customs channel/foyer (debarkation).

 

Security never used to be an issue as the length of check-in used to control flow. Check-in has changed post Pandemic and it’s now quicker hence the flow issues.

 

The customs channel isn’t easy to expand due to space constraints and slow dispersement of people in the foyer. But I believe it’s being looked at.

[molecrochip]

4 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Thank you. I am extremely grateful for your update. I’m going to aim to arrive at the terminal at around 11.15 to allow for any CPS queues to drop the car off and the fact that I cannot push my wife and deal with the cases simultaneously, so will need to make a few trips back and forth before we will be ready to enter the terminal. Hopefully, as we have a 12pm priority boarding slot and have booked assistance, if this takes less time than planned and we approach the terminal a little early, we might be allowed in to wait in the assistance area? I don’t fancy standing outside in this weather 😂 

 

On another matter, I managed to book all our speciality restaurants by staying up until midnight last night (glad I did, many slots have since gone), but no sign of the shows yet. There seems to be varying feedback on when these should be released. Any idea? Thanks. 

Look for shows at midnight tonight. For some reason they were dropping at 13 days not 14!

 

When you first arrive at CPS show them your blue badge and advise you need a luggage porter. They are now reserved for people with special assistance requirements. - everyone else gets trolleys!

 

As your wife is a wheelchair user, you should get to wait in the foyer not the queue. But at midday I don’t expect a problem. The queue really is designed for those who turn up 1-3 hours early.

[9265359]

18 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Security never used to be an issue as the length of check-in used to control flow. Check-in has changed post Pandemic and it’s now quicker hence the flow issues.

 

 

Not a hard issue to fix if they actually wanted to, but the $64k question is whether they want to, and so far the indication is they don't.

[molecrochip]

Other than more security points it’s not an easy fix.

 

You need to remember that the terminal is used by many cruise lines, some which have more traditional check-in processes.

 

So it’s not just a case of removing seats and adding security points.

Edited August 5, 2023 by molecrochip

[9265359]

6 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Other than more security points it’s not an easy fix.

 

You need to remember that the terminal is used by many cruise lines, some which have more traditional check-in processes.

 

So it’s not just a case of removing seats and adding security points.

 

Most airports have redesigned their security points over the last five years or so, keeping to the same footprint but enabling a larger and faster passenger flow - that would be a good starting point.

 

And unless those cruise lines who have a more traditional check-in process are in the majority (or pay an awful lot for the privilege) then someone should be giving them a deadline to make the change so other cruise line customers are not unnecessarily inconvenienced.

[cruising.mark.uk]

8 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

Most airports have redesigned their security points over the last five years or so, keeping to the same footprint but enabling a larger and faster passenger flow - that would be a good starting point.

 

And unless those cruise lines who have a more traditional check-in process are in the majority (or pay an awful lot for the privilege) then someone should be giving them a deadline to make the change so other cruise line customers are not unnecessarily inconvenienced.

Am I wrong in thinking that the terminals used by the cruise lines are owned and operated by ABP?  So, changing the passenger flow, infrastructure and layout of the terminal would be their responsibility, although it would no doubt be paid for indirectly by the cruise lines.  I think that, given how many lines use these terminals, the design is almost inevitably going to be a compromise between the different requirements of all of the different cruise lines.

[terrierjohn]

57 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Other than more security points it’s not an easy fix.

 

You need to remember that the terminal is used by many cruise lines, some which have more traditional check-in processes.

 

So it’s not just a case of removing seats and adding security points.

Which cruise lines use Ocean and Mayflower as home port terminals other than P&O, Cunard and Princess?

[david63]

48 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Am I wrong in thinking that the terminals used by the cruise lines are owned and operated by ABP?

Operated - yes, owned - not sure.

 

If I remember correctly there was some arrangement between ABP and Carnival when Ocean Terminal was being built and I think I read somewhere that the new Horizon terminal was a joint venture.

[molecrochip]

32 minutes ago, david63 said:

Operated - yes, owned - not sure.

 

If I remember correctly there was some arrangement between ABP and Carnival when Ocean Terminal was being built and I think I read somewhere that the new Horizon terminal was a joint venture.

Ocean terminal was a joint venture. It gives Carnival priority but not exclusivity. Same with the last major upgrade to Mayflower.

 

The new Horizon terminal was a joint venture between MSC and Norwegian. Again, they have priority but not exclusivity.

 

The port owns the land and terminals are long leases. All terminals are operated and managed by ABP however each cruise line supplies its own check-in/baggage staff through an agency. Carnival use Intercruises.

 

Iona can only currently home port at Ocean Terminal. As you may be aware, on a rotational basis the cruise terminals close across winters for refurbishment. I understand that 2025 is the turn of Ocean Terminal to close mid January - end of March. It’s possible that Horizon terminal will be used for her three turnaround days. Not a co-incidence that Iona has a 35 night cruise and dry dock during that period thus reducing the number of turnaround days in Southampton.

[9265359]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

given how many lines use these terminals, the design is almost inevitably going to be a compromise between the different requirements of all of the different cruise lines.

 

I would have thought that the two primary requirements of every cruise line would be - 

 

1. Ensure that all security protocols are met; and 

2. Make the embarkation process for their customers as pleasant as possible.

 

And if a small number of cruise companies have protocols that get in the way of the second of those, then the question needs to be asked why that is, and does it need to be that way, because for the other companies it is now adversely impacting their customer's experience.

 

My feeling is that an awful lot of things are done in a particular way, not because that is the best way to do them, but because they have always been done that way and nobody has evaluated whether that is still the best way. And if it is, then that's fine, but if it isn't then it isn't.

[ParisHilton]

Totally agree that things often evolve, based on how things were always done.

 

I'd update your 2nd requirement though.

 

2. Make sure the embarkation process is as profitable as possible.

Such is the way of the world.

[david63]

Part of the problem as far as security is concerned is that it is governed by the Aviation and Maritime Security Act 1990 which essentially enforces the same procedures at a cruise port in the UK as are in force at an airport (remove belt, take watch off, etc.).

 

I fully appreciate that ABP cannot change this but if the same procedures were adopted at the port as when re-boarding the ship then the time getting through security would be cut considerably.

[molecrochip]

4 hours ago, david63 said:

Part of the problem as far as security is concerned is that it is governed by the Aviation and Maritime Security Act 1990 which essentially enforces the same procedures at a cruise port in the UK as are in force at an airport (remove belt, take watch off, etc.).

 

I fully appreciate that ABP cannot change this but if the same procedures were adopted at the port as when re-boarding the ship then the time getting through security would be cut considerably.

People bring a lot more stuff on at embarkation than when reboarding. This is the difference in timescales.

[9265359]

6 hours ago, ParisHilton said:

I'd update your 2nd requirement though.

 

2. Make sure the embarkation process is as profitable as possible.

Such is the way of the world.

 

Well there are simple answers there -

- Charge extra for a 'premium' embarkation time

- Get people onto the ship as fast as possible so you can sell them drinks in the bars

 

4 hours ago, david63 said:

Part of the problem as far as security is concerned is that it is governed by the Aviation and Maritime Security Act 1990 which essentially enforces the same procedures at a cruise port in the UK as are in force at an airport (remove belt, take watch off, etc.).

 

But compare any airport security process to the port security process.

 

The port security process is 'serial' with one passenger at time putting items on the X-ray baggage belt and making their way through the metal detector arch.

 

Whereas at almost every airport the process is now 'parallel' with four, five or six people loading onto the X-ray baggage belt at the same time, and then two belt loads of people making their way through a single arch.

 

1 minute ago, molecrochip said:

People bring a lot more stuff on at embarkation than when reboarding. This is the difference in timescales.

 

But with the low cost airlines, people are bringing as much hand-luggage on-board as people do on embarkation, but the streamlined airport processes can cope with the volume and get people through fast.

[terrierjohn]

7 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

People bring a lot more stuff on at embarkation than when reboarding. This is the difference in timescales.

I doubt that is true, most people limit the hand baggage at embarkation, but when going ashore they have far more bags with jackets and sweaters and wet weather gear.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by terrierjohn

[molecrochip]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I doubt that is true, most people limit the hand baggage at embarkation, but when going ashore they have far more bags with jackets and sweaters and wet weather gear.

 

John, that’s just not correct. At embarkation people have wheels cases, medications, winter coats, valuables etc.

9 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

But compare any airport security process to the port security process.

 

The port security process is 'serial' with one passenger at time putting items on the X-ray baggage belt and making their way through the metal detector arch.

 

Whereas at almost every airport the process is now 'parallel' with four, five or six people loading onto the X-ray baggage belt at the same time, and then two belt loads of people making their way through a single arch.

That’s exactly how Ocean Terminal works John. At Ocean they have two/three people unloading at a time. One arch per two conveyors.

 

The difference between airport snd cruise terminal is passenger mix. At an airport you have leisure/family passengers mixed in with quicker business/frequent flyers. At a cruise terminal everyone is leisure/family type of passenger.

[terrierjohn]

4 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

John, that’s just not correct. At embarkation people have wheels cases, medications, winter coats, valuables etc.

They may have all those items but mostly they are in one small case that is easy to load on the conveyor, compare that with al the loose items that everyone has when at a port call, especially families.

[Gettingwarmer]

13 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

John, that’s just not correct. At embarkation people have wheels cases, medications, winter coats, valuables etc.

 

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

They may have all those items but mostly they are in one small case that is easy to load on the conveyor, compare that with al the loose items that everyone has when at a port call, especially families.

At embarking we have a carryon suitcase plus our winter coats. At ports we have a very small handhold bag. Some people carry more but most people do not want to carry a heavy load around with them sightseeing. 

[9265359]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

That’s exactly how Ocean Terminal works. At Ocean they have two/three people unloading at a time. One arch per two conveyors.

 

But it isn't at Mayflower - where they had lots and lots of people stood outside when I was there recently (and hundreds of unused seats inside).

 

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

The difference between airport snd cruise terminal is passenger mix. At an airport you have leisure/family passengers mixed in with quicker business/frequent flyers. At a cruise terminal everyone is leisure/family type of passenger.

 

Perhaps at Heathrow, but not at Luton, East Midlands, etc. when the majority of passengers are leisure/family.

[cruising.mark.uk]

It seems to me that the matter at the heart of this discussion is fairly binary:

Either cruise lines can educate / train their passengers to turn up at assigned boarding times that are aligned with the capacity of the terminal processes; or

They can invest further £millions in creating more check-in / security facilities to increase the number of pax they can process per hr and thus allow everyone to turn up whenever they like.

 

My experience suggests that many P&O passengers are learning from the way the line operates at Southampton and will modify their travel plans to arrive close to the time they have been given.  If that is true, what incentive is there for P&O (or others) to make further multi-million £ investments in the current financial climate to, so far as I can see, address a (perceived) problem that will continue to reduce over time as more and more passengers learn not to turn up hours early? 

[9265359]

26 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

My experience suggests that many P&O passengers are learning from the way the line operates at Southampton and will modify their travel plans to arrive close to the time they have been given.

 

Or looking at the prices where P&O are currently virtually giving away cruises, their potential customers have moved to spend their money elsewhere, perhaps with companies that don't treat them as an inconvenience and have them stand outside in poor weather whilst keeping a vast undercover seating area unused.

 

29 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

If that is true, what incentive is there for P&O (or others) to make further multi-million £ investments in the current financial climate 

 

The incentive is to actually make some money!

[cruising.mark.uk]

2 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

The incentive is to actually make some money!

If they want to invest to do that, then my recommendation would be that they spend the few hundred thousand pounds it would take to make the app more user friendly and allow effective advance booking of restaurants and entertainment using OBC.  I sense that would have a far more wide-reaching and positive impact on customers compared with the more expensive infrastructure measures that you are proposing, which would reward those who can't adhere to their boarding time while disadvantaging those that do (and any benefit of which would probably have been forgotten about by the vast majority of passengers once they'd been on the ship for half an hour).

[9265359]

7 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

If they want to invest to do that, then my recommendation would be that they spend the few hundred thousand pounds it would take to make the app more user friendly and allow effective advance booking of restaurants and entertainment using OBC.  I sense that would have a far more wide-reaching and positive impact on customers compared with the more expensive infrastructure measures that you are proposing, which would reward those who can't adhere to their boarding time while disadvantaging those that do (and any benefit of which would probably have been forgotten about by the vast majority of passengers once they'd been on the ship for half an hour).

 

Firstly, allowing people into the terminal and out of the weather to sit down and wait costs nothing.

 

And I doubt many people would forget within an half an hour being made to stand outside in poor weather, whilst hundreds and hundreds of empty seats undercover are not used.

 

And furthermore, it wasn't because of any logistical reason they were stood outside in the bad weather, no, it was that P&O had decided to treat them badly purely to teach them a lesson.

 

Well the lesson that companies that treat their customers badly learn quite quickly is that they don't return.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by 9265359

[AndyMichelle]

46 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

It seems to me that the matter at the heart of this discussion is fairly binary:

Either cruise lines can educate / train their passengers to turn up at assigned boarding times that are aligned with the capacity of the terminal processes; or

They can invest further £millions in creating more check-in / security facilities to increase the number of pax they can process per hr and thus allow everyone to turn up whenever they like.

 

My experience suggests that many P&O passengers are learning from the way the line operates at Southampton and will modify their travel plans to arrive close to the time they have been given.  If that is true, what incentive is there for P&O (or others) to make further multi-million £ investments in the current financial climate to, so far as I can see, address a (perceived) problem that will continue to reduce over time as more and more passengers learn not to turn up hours early? 

Spot on... 

Now passengers are aware of the procedure, less and less arrive early. 

The ones that do understand the rules and, although I am sure they are hopeful of being let in early, accept they will probably have to queue outside, but at least they are there safely, in plenty of time. 

P&O are not making them queue outside, they are choosing to. 

Andy