Drinking ship provided water when cruising in Japanese waters

[Aitchgeye]

Hi all,

 

When cruising, I am quite happy drinking water supplied in the Lido beverages area. I understand that this water has been generated from seawater, filtered  and treated (reverse osmosis?).

 

Now the issue is that we will be cruising in October from Yokohama, sailing past the Fukushima nuclear power plant where they recently discharged mega litres of treated waste water into the Pacific.
 

What are the consequences for passengers?  I don’t think reverse osmosis will remove radioactivity. am I panicking unnecessarily?

 

Helen

 

[CruiserBruce]

There is an old saying...."dilution is the solution". Compared to the volume of the ocean, they are putting an incredibly small amount of radiation into the ocean. The amount you might ingest will be far, far less than the amount you get from an xray.

[Real NHDOC]

You, like me, probably haven't thought twice about drinking the treated ocean water after the uncontrolled release of highly contaminated water when the plant originally melted down and that stuff went everywhere and was much, much worse than what they're releasing now. 

 

The ocean is pretty big and the stuff they're releasing is already very diluted.  Plus, when the ships take water in to be treated it is done only when they are far away from land so they won't be drawing water that hasn't already been well mixed with the open ocean water.  I'd say there are probably more pressing issues to worry about than that. 

[Haljo1935]

Perhaps someone with good working knowledge of the HAL water production system will weigh in... @Heidi13 @chengkp75 can you provide insight?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Haljo1935
Typo

[Mosaic]

RO will remove radiation. But, sorry, I have to give this question a lol.

[ExArkie]

19 minutes ago, Mosaic said:

RO will remove radiation. But, sorry, I have to give this question a lol.

Not tritium. The radioactive species in the released water is an isotope of hydrogen that is present in the form of water: both are H2O, the regular version is the H-1 isotope while the contaminant is the H-3 isotope. Reverse osmosis will not filter water out of water.

 

Having said that, the tritium levels in the water being released meet the international standard for water quality and will be further diluted in the ocean. In order to see a significant increase in risk from radiation exposure, one would need to drink a lot. The IAEA (disclosure: I consult to the IAEA, but not on this topic) reports that the concentration in water being released is “well below” the operational limit of 1,500 Bq/L (Bq is a unit of measurement showing how much radioactive material is present). The WHO drinking water limit is 10,000 Bq/L.

 

The concentration of tritium in water collected and treated for drinking shipboard is almost certainly going to be indistinguishable from the normally occurring concentration of tritium in natural water.

 

Sorry, acronyms: IAEA = International Atomic Energy Agency, a part of the United Nations, and WHO = World Health Organization.

Edited August 28, 2023 by ExArkie
Corrected typo

[Real NHDOC]

ExArkie is right.  The water being released has already been filtered and treated to remove what can be removed but from what I have read low levels of Tritium are the only radioactive contaminant that RO and treatment cannot remove.  The particular tritium isotope has a half life of 12 years.  But the levels are so low they are literally like a drop in the ocean.

[OlsSalt]

You are already living on a planet full of natural radio-active decay going on every single day under its crust. Oceans do take up 73% of the earth surface, so their self-regulation mechanisms deal with short term contaminants. As pointed out by others, dilution is just one of them.

[chengkp75]

Both systems used to create drinking water on ships, Reverse Osmosis and Evaporation, will remove all radioactive isotopes except tritium, as noted above.  Also as noted above, tritium is a naturally occurring isotope in water, and has been around forever (remember the ***'s working to concentrate "heavy water" (tritium) during WW2?).  It is generally present in surface water from cosmic radiation creating tritium atoms from hydrogen in the atmosphere, and then the tritium gas reacts with oxygen to form water, and falls out of the sky into water sources.  So, your local drinking water supply has some tritium in it, guaranteed.

 

I don't know how far out this water is going to be discharged, nor where this is in relation to where ships in general, and cruise ships in particular are passing.  And, the fact that they intend to take decades to discharge the water means the dilution will be great, and as noted in the article linked, most scientists feel that this will pose little to no risk to humans or environment.

[CNSJ]

I would be more concerned with mercury in tuna or other fish than the discharge of water from Japan's nuclear plant into the ocean.  Please note:  I am not concerned with mercury in my fish either.  The levels of dilution are on a magnitude of a capful of water in Lake Superior. 

[Rothko1]

If you are very lucky, you might gain a superpower.

[FlaMariner]

We are headed to Yokohoma 10/1 and will be drinking the tap water served by Holland America Line....We plan to drink lots of spigot water in Japan....along with saki brewed with Japanese water.  

 

We are not afraid.  We will savor the water...and the journey. 

 

 

[vicd1969]

I'd only be concerned about the water if you spot Godzilla from the promenade deck.

[YourWorldWithBill]

1 hour ago, Rothko1 said:

If you are very lucky, you might gain a superpower.

That's why I'm careful; I don't want to go too far.

[OlsSalt]

4 hours ago, Rothko1 said:

If you are very lucky, you might gain a superpower.

 

Mutations from whatever the source did gift us humans with opposable thumbs, and the rest as they say is history. 

[OlsSalt]

I'd worry more about falling into vats of brewing soy sauce.  On a tour of the soy sauce island in Japan, they claimed every year a few of their workers do fall in while stirring the soupy mix.

[lyndarra]

8 hours ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

That's why I'm careful; I don't want to go too far.

Me either. I'd never be able to decide which color cape I should wear.😟

[ExArkie]

19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Both systems used to create drinking water on ships, Reverse Osmosis and Evaporation, will remove all radioactive isotopes except tritium, as noted above.  Also as noted above, tritium is a naturally occurring isotope in water, and has been around forever (remember the ***'s working to concentrate "heavy water" (tritium) during WW2?).  It is generally present in surface water from cosmic radiation creating tritium atoms from hydrogen in the atmosphere, and then the tritium gas reacts with oxygen to form water, and falls out of the sky into water sources.  So, your local drinking water supply has some tritium in it, guaranteed.

 

I don't know how far out this water is going to be discharged, nor where this is in relation to where ships in general, and cruise ships in particular are passing.  And, the fact that they intend to take decades to discharge the water means the dilution will be great, and as noted in the article linked, most scientists feel that this will pose little to no risk to humans or environment.

One correction to your otherwise accurate post: “heavy water” contains the H2 isotope, deuterium, and not the H3 isotope, tritium. The production facility in Norway was trying to produce deuterium-containing water for use in a natural-uranium fueled nuclear reactor as compared to the US approach to use natural water and enrich the concentration of fissionable uranium in the reactor fuel. Basically, a theoretical difference between Fermi and Heisenberg over the most efficient method. (For the military response to this theoretical difference, see “The Heroes of the Telemark” Columbia Pictures 1965)
 

If you need more details, I can loan you my text book from my nuclear reactor design theory class, because what I said above is about as deep as my comprehension goes these days. (The class was “a few” years ago and I actually have never worked in reactor design.)

[YourWorldWithBill]

20 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

I'd worry more about falling into vats of brewing soy sauce.  On a tour of the soy sauce island in Japan, they claimed every year a few of their workers do fall in while stirring the soupy mix.

Are the rules the same as making chocolate in the US? It's okay to eat with a certain number of bugs in the mix...

[sciencewonk]

You'll ingest much more radioactivity if you eat a banana, which contains the radioisotope K-40.

[Rothko1]

14 minutes ago, sciencewonk said:

You'll ingest much more radioactivity if you eat a banana, which contains the radioisotope K-40.

 

"I'm Banana Man"

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

Are the rules the same as making chocolate in the US? It's okay to eat with a certain number of bugs in the mix...

 

Since soy sauce is fermented, there are more than a few "bugs" in the sauce. We visited one of the oldest family-owned soy producer on that island. Learned soy sauce can be like wines - theirs were so refined and exquisite.

 

Kikkoman was cranking it out for mass production down the road. A very different product.  But I gather the smells inherent in the production of soy sauce is what forced this industry to an offshore island. 

 

Japan's island for soy sauce and olives: https://www.gov-online.go.jp/eng/publicity/book/hlj/html/202111/202111_08_en.html

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by OlsSalt

[YourWorldWithBill]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Since soy sauce is fermented, there are more than a few "bugs" in the sauce. We visited one of the oldest family-owned soy producer on that island. Learned soy sauce can be like wines - theirs were so refined and exquisite.

My wife, who is from Thailand, is very particular about which soy sauce she uses.

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

Are the rules the same as making chocolate in the US? It's okay to eat with a certain number of bugs in the mix...

I think, if you read the FDA and other appropriate agency regulations and guideline, you will find similar specs for all sorts of food, grain, etc.

[CALIJEAN]

When will I know if it is approved?