The demise of late deals?

[Ardennais]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

Post Covid, the focus was on getting people back on ships. This included enticing a new generation of cruisers acknowledging that some will never want to cruise again.

 

Low prices have been used to fill ships to capacity. Two years on, now that we’re booking 2 years out, that new generation has been found and will actively chose to return (hopefully).

 

Carnival have spoken about the need to raise prices across all brands - it was also an area that the market analysts said Carnival needed to try harder at.

 

So the approach pivots. Say launch price is £500, it reaches £700 following sales. Recently the late fare was £350 which annoyed people. Now the focus is on quality bookings over quantity.

 

A late price could stay at £700 in which case you only need to sell one cabin instead of two to generate the same fare revenue. Alternatively, you drop to £500 and still make more money on the one cabin compared to £350, but you might just sell two cabins and be £300 better off.

 

It’s an over simplification of the revenue model, which aims to maximise fare revenue across the ship, but it gives you an idea.

I think I understand, but I thought the idea was to sell all cabins so as to make money from guests spending onboard. So if you sell that one cabin for £700, you would only have 2 guests spending their money on drinks, excursions, beauty treatments etc, rather than selling two cabins cheaply but having 4 guests spending money. 

[Selbourne]

9 minutes ago, gsmt47471015 said:

Selbourne please rest assured this was not a slight against you and I am delighted with the deal you have obtained, the comment was a generalisation and was more for the people onboard who begin a conversation with something like “we couldn’t believe how cheap we got this cruise and got upgraded as well “ I know you will thoroughly enjoy your cruise and look forward to hearing about it , 👍😀

Thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. I must say that I absolutely never discuss prices when on a cruise as it is a recipe for disaster. Several people have started the conversation with me over the years and I just smile and don’t give anything back. We had a hilarious example of this on Ventura when we shared a table at lunch. One chap proceeded to brag about how little he’d paid for the cruise, clearly expecting us to recoil in horror and say that we had paid significantly more. Getting no response he returned to the subject again10 minutes later, repeating what he’d paid, again to no avail as I just smiled. Although he didn’t say so, it was blatantly obvious that he was staying in an inside cabin. I didn’t have the heart to inflate his ego by confirming that we had indeed paid quite a bit more than him, only to burst his bubble by explaining that the reason we had paid more was because we were in a penthouse suite 😂 

[Ardennais]

For some reason, the mention of a penthouse suite makes me think of people like Hugh Hefner and Donald Trump!

[Selbourne]

6 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

For some reason, the mention of a penthouse suite makes me think of people like Hugh Hefner and Donald Trump!

I can assure you that our one and only stay in a penthouse suite (which was all of four nights) was exceeding dull compared to anything that Hugh Hefner or Donald Trump would get up to. However, if Playboy Bunnies were introduced by P&O as an enhancement to the paltry suite benefits, I might consider giving them a second go 😂 

[Interestedcruisefan]

10 hours ago, kermchem said:

To me, the problem with the idea that there will be no late deals is that the customer P&O is trying to attract does not book their holidays two and a half years in advance. 
 

Why are Tui and Jet2 flight not available for P&O to confirm when they sell a cruise 18 to 24 months ahead? Because these are holiday companies who expect to sell summer 2024 holidays in January 2024. 

That's so true

 

Basically if you want to book flights anywhere - then it's normally less than a year in advance you can even find them to book

 

And other than real bucket list holidays of a lifetime then one year in advance must surely be the norm for the vast majority of holidaymakers?

 

Obviously we all know experienced cruisers are a different breed to your normal holidaymakers and will book further in advance. 

 

However for the big ships like Arvia and Iona and the "new generation of cruisers" just getting people to book a year in advance will be early booking for most I would say

 

All I'm reading into this really is that those cruisers who do want to book at launch won't be paying more than those who leave it late

 

Which is fair enough and how it should be. These are loyal and experienced cruisers who shouldn't be penalized for planning ahead

 

I'm not convinced they will be getting any cheaper though either

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

11 hours ago, Cathygh said:

I note what you say about the fare revenue but what about overall revenue? Selling 2 cabins must better than selling 1, as there will be more people to spend money on board. I am fond of late deals, and use the savings to spend more on board.

Agreed. On board spend relies on more cabins being sold rather than less

 

Balancing act for the cruise lines needed

[Interestedcruisefan]

10 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. I must say that I absolutely never discuss prices when on a cruise as it is a recipe for disaster. Several people have started the conversation with me over the years and I just smile and don’t give anything back. We had a hilarious example of this on Ventura when we shared a table at lunch. One chap proceeded to brag about how little he’d paid for the cruise, clearly expecting us to recoil in horror and say that we had paid significantly more. Getting no response he returned to the subject again10 minutes later, repeating what he’d paid, again to no avail as I just smiled. Although he didn’t say so, it was blatantly obvious that he was staying in an inside cabin. I didn’t have the heart to inflate his ego by confirming that we had indeed paid quite a bit more than him, only to burst his bubble by explaining that the reason we had paid more was because we were in a penthouse suite 😂 

Lol

 

But having said that - the guy  in the inside saver is sat on the very same table enjoying the very same lunch as the guy in the Penthouse Suite

 

That's cruising for you (on P and O at least)

[gsmt47471015]

39 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

That's so true

 

Basically if you want to book flights anywhere - then it's normally less than a year in advance you can even find them to book

 

And other than real bucket list holidays of a lifetime then one year in advance must surely be the norm for the vast majority of holidaymakers?

 

Obviously we all know experienced cruisers are a different breed to your normal holidaymakers and will book further in advance. 

 

However for the big ships like Arvia and Iona and the "new generation of cruisers" just getting people to book a year in advance will be early booking for most I would say

 

All I'm reading into this really is that those cruisers who do want to book at launch won't be paying more than those who leave it late

 

Which is fair enough and how it should be. These are loyal and experienced cruisers who shouldn't be penalized for planning ahead

 

I'm not convinced they will be getting any cheaper though either

 

 

Not cheaper ,but a fairer way IMHO

[mrsgoggins]

11 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I must apologise, as I could be accused of that in my excitement to share our news about the Aurora 65 nighter that we booked on the spur of the moment last week. It certainly was never my intention to rub anyone’s nose in it and, in my defence, the prices I have quoted are clearly visible on the P&O website for all to see. Also, as you know, late savers come with some limitations and risks and no OBC. 
 

 

I'm so pleased that you have been reassured that you were not the target of anyone's displeasure. Count me in as one who has followed all of your planning (and trip report) posts and was delighted that you and your wife have a bargain.

 

I've done cruises with Celebrity, Princess and P&O (2) this year, but only with the P&O Iona cruise did I experience several people sharing how little they had paid. As previously reported, one comment was.... '£50 a day, i can eat more than that'.  I wasn't at all upset at the people who had got the bargains, and congratulated them on their good fortune. I was irritated at myself for having booked at launch and definitely not a bargain price and with P&O!

 

I'm very familiar with fluid pricing, particularly with airlines, and have had more than my share of good deals over the years, being quite a savvy consumer, but I'll be very cautious with P&O should I book with them in the future.

 

The only cruises I would now look at for launch bookings (with P&O) would be 'one off' itineraries or if I needed popular holiday times. 

[Selbourne]

20 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Lol

 

But having said that - the guy  in the inside saver is sat on the very same table enjoying the very same lunch as the guy in the Penthouse Suite

 

That's cruising for you (on P and O at least)

As I said, it was only four nights and we booked it on a Saver (the first time we had done so) as there’s only two of those suites, so we knew exactly where we would be (i.e. no risks) and were happy to use speciality restaurants each night if we didn’t get our dining choice. We’ve long since given up on booking suites. With P&O we no longer feel that they are value for money, especially since we now get priority boarding on every cruise anyway due to loyalty tier. For ‘treat’ cruises we are now booking Cunard, where extra expenditure gets you far more meaningful benefits. 

[terrierjohn]

43 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

That's so true

 

Basically if you want to book flights anywhere - then it's normally less than a year in advance you can even find them to book

 

And other than real bucket list holidays of a lifetime then one year in advance must surely be the norm for the vast majority of holidaymakers?

 

Obviously we all know experienced cruisers are a different breed to your normal holidaymakers and will book further in advance. 

 

However for the big ships like Arvia and Iona and the "new generation of cruisers" just getting people to book a year in advance will be early booking for most I would say

 

All I'm reading into this really is that those cruisers who do want to book at launch won't be paying more than those who leave it late

 

Which is fair enough and how it should be. These are loyal and experienced cruisers who shouldn't be penalized for planning ahead

 

I'm not convinced they will be getting any cheaper though either

 

 

My son never books next years holiday until well after this years are a distant memory.

Hee is just starting to think about next year, bit unlikely to book until spring next year.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by terrierjohn

[Somerset Cruiser]

12 hours ago, bee-ess said:

 

But looking at availabilty it seems from trying a few dummy bookings that there are not a lot of cabins available to book online (unless they are holding cabins back). 

As you suggest not as simple as that. 

 

We're doing a back to back on Iona in December, when originally booking a few months ago Seaview cabins were available for the 1st leg but not the 2nd so we reluctantly booked a balcony. I found it hard to believe the unavailability was genuine so queried it and was told the cabins were being withheld by Inventory. My request to release 1 were refused.

 

A couple of weeks ago Seaview cabins were released for the 2nd leg but at the same time the 40 or so previously shown Seaview cabins on the 1st leg disappeared, withdrawn by Inventory.  

To cut a very long story short, i spent hours asking for common sense to prevail to be told that it was impossible to 'downgrade' due to Terms and Conditions plus the fact that Inventory says!

 

An email to Paul Ludlow's office resulted in a call from the Executive team and common sense eventually prevailed and we have a Seaview cabin. 

 

So don't believe the cabin availability you see is accurate. 

BTW I didn't establish why Inventory did what they did, I suspect no-one actually knows. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

18 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

As I said, it was only four nights and we booked it on a Saver (the first time we had done so) as there’s only two of those suites, so we knew exactly where we would be (i.e. no risks) and were happy to use speciality restaurants each night if we didn’t get our dining choice. We’ve long since given up on booking suites. With P&O we no longer feel that they are value for money, especially since we now get priority boarding on every cruise anyway due to loyalty tier. For ‘treat’ cruises we are now booking Cunard, where extra expenditure gets you far more meaningful benefits. 

Everybody makes choices according to their wants and needs of course

 

When you were choosing the suites etc did the fact you had spent more on them make you want to spend more time in them or was it just a nice to have at the time? Ie were your cruise holidays noticeably different in terms of where you spent time on the ship?

 

My outsider looking in thoughts on this are that no matter how nice a suite is and what it offers there are inevitably going to be better places outside of the suite to sit and drink and eat and enjoy views from?

 

Hence I can't justify the cost. 

 

Obviously if money was no object then I would book suites. Why not. But that's a different situation. 

 

I want to make it very clear I'm just interested in the benefits you got from the suites at the time on P and O and whether it did change the cruise experience noticeably for you

 

Ive no doubt staying in the suites made you feel special and nice

 

We've stayed in suites In Hotels but never on a cruise so we know how special they can make you feel

 

Thinking back though it's only been for a couple of nights at a time

Edited October 20, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

11 minutes ago, Somerset Cruiser said:

As you suggest not as simple as that. 

 

We're doing a back to back on Iona in December, when originally booking a few months ago Seaview cabins were available for the 1st leg but not the 2nd so we reluctantly booked a balcony. I found it hard to believe the unavailability was genuine so queried it and was told the cabins were being withheld by Inventory. My request to release 1 were refused.

 

A couple of weeks ago Seaview cabins were released for the 2nd leg but at the same time the 40 or so previously shown Seaview cabins on the 1st leg disappeared, withdrawn by Inventory.  

To cut a very long story short, i spent hours asking for common sense to prevail to be told that it was impossible to 'downgrade' due to Terms and Conditions plus the fact that Inventory says!

 

An email to Paul Ludlow's office resulted in a call from the Executive team and common sense eventually prevailed and we have a Seaview cabin. 

 

So don't believe the cabin availability you see is accurate. 

BTW I didn't establish why Inventory did what they did, I suspect no-one actually knows. 

Lots of booking systems for hotels, restaurants and services etc have opt ins for the suppliers to turn on to make them look busier than they are rather than show everything available from the start

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

My son never books next years holiday until well after this years are a distant memory.

Hee is just starting to think about next year, bit unlikely to book until spring next year.

 

I think a lot of younger people are actually the same John. 

 

Add to that the fact that a lot of employers simply won’t authorise holidays years in advance so if people do book they are taking the chance that the answer to that period of leave could be no.

 

 

[Gettingwarmer]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

My outsider looking in thoughts on this are that no matter how nice a suite is and what it offers there are inevitably going to be better places outside of the suite to sit and drink and eat and enjoy views from?

Not in a suite but on my recent cruise to USA and Canada I spent a lot of my time in my large cabin as it was much preferable to being elsewhere on the ship. I love looking out the window watching the sea even in inclement weather. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I think a lot of younger people are actually the same John. 

 

Add to that the fact that a lot of employers simply won’t authorise holidays years in advance so if people do book they are taking the chance that the answer to that period of leave could be no.

 

 

Yes certainly suits retired people better to book that far ahead

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, Gettingwarmer said:

Not in a suite but on my recent cruise to USA and Canada I spent a lot of my time in my large cabin as it was much preferable to being elsewhere on the ship. I love looking out the window watching the sea even in inclement weather. 

Sounds calming but like you say that doesn't need to be a suite. Although would be even more calming in a suite no doubt

 

When we board a new ship we spend time walking around on the first day looking for the best and favourite places to sit both inside and outside

 

Inside normally with a cocktail involved!

 

Outside normally on a sunbed with a view

 

And we can always find some great spots we feel. 

 

We've got a lovely conservatory at home but I prefer to walk outside to our local marina, tea-shop, canals, lakes, wetlands nature reserve etc to really relax

 

Also for some reason I often enjoy drinks and food served to me outside my home than making my own inside my home. Even though what I make is often as good or better than what I'm served 

 

I guess it's all down to mindset 

[Eglesbrech]

11 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Yes certainly suits retired people better to book that far ahead

Which is why it surprises me that cruise companies are going back to deep discounting for early bookings when this is more likely to attract people in a more senior role where they can decide their own leave arrangements or those who are retired - usually older folks.
 

They will however know their own business model best.

[Interestedcruisefan]

Just now, Eglesbrech said:

Which is why it surprises me that cruise companies are going back to deep discounting for early bookings when this is more likely to attract people in a more senior role where they can decide their own leave arrangements or those who are retired - usually older folks.
 

They will however know their own business model best.

I guess there's still a huge market of seniors to satisfy though

 

And I guess each year we will get more seniors for the first time

 

Definitely get the vibe that booking early was no longer a good deal

 

So they probably did need to address

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Everybody makes choices according to their wants and needs of course

 

When you were choosing the suites etc did the fact you had spent more on them make you want to spend more time in them or was it just a nice to have at the time? Ie were your cruise holidays noticeably different in terms of where you spent time on the ship?

 

My outsider looking in thoughts on this are that no matter how nice a suite is and what it offers there are inevitably going to be better places outside of the suite to sit and drink and eat and enjoy views from?

 

Hence I can't justify the cost. 

 

Obviously if money was no object then I would book suites. Why not. But that's a different situation. 

I think that most of us know that you only book inside cabins, usually on savers, and think that the rest of us are absolutely bonkers for doing anything else 😂 Equally, whilst I fully respect your choices, in our case we would prefer not to cruise at all than to have an inside cabin.
 

I really don’t want to exchange in a protracted back and forth on this, as we are all different and are all entitled to use our money as we wish, but in our case there were lots of reasons for booking suites at the time, the principal ones being;

 

- The extra space, including separate bedroom and living room

- Better balconies, especially the huge aft corner wrap around ones

- Unique experiences that we had, such as a served dinner on our aft suite balcony cruising down the fjords in Arcadia and watching the International Firework Festival with drinks and snacks in Monaco.

- Quality, quiet and private space (indoor and outdoor) to use when the ship is busy (we use our current balcony cabins a lot for this purpose - much prefer that to public areas)

- Priority boarding, priority tenders, priority disembarkation

- Breakfast in Epicurean

- Our kids were in an adjacent balcony cabin but were able to utilise our suite benefits, such as free room service, which they liked

 

We were also fortunate that we were able to afford suites without having to go without other things, so it was never a case that by not having them we could have gone on more cruises. 
 

However, as I have said, we no longer use them. Our kids are now adults and rarely cruise with us. Also, there is virtually zero choice of accessible suites (often a maximum of one per ship and often they are in poor locations). We now get priority boarding anyway. Also, the one and only positive aspect of being in a situation where you have to book an accessible cabin is that the accessible balcony cabins are the size of mini-suites, but at no additional cost. Being able to afford a suite is one thing, but I like to feel that we are getting value for money and, for these reasons, in our case a suite no longer ticks that box. 

[terrierjohn]

25 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Everybody makes choices according to their wants and needs of course

 

When you were choosing the suites etc did the fact you had spent more on them make you want to spend more time in them or was it just a nice to have at the time? Ie were your cruise holidays noticeably different in terms of where you spent time on the ship?

 

My outsider looking in thoughts on this are that no matter how nice a suite is and what it offers there are inevitably going to be better places outside of the suite to sit and drink and eat and enjoy views from?

 

Hence I can't justify the cost. 

 

Obviously if money was no object then I would book suites. Why not. But that's a different situation. 

 

I want to make it very clear I'm just interested in the benefits you got from the suites at the time on P and O and whether it did change the cruise experience noticeably for you

 

Ive no doubt staying in the suites made you feel special and nice

 

We've stayed in suites In Hotels but never on a cruise so we know how special they can make you feel

 

Thinking back though it's only been for a couple of nights at a time

ICF, since our first cruise on a modern cruise ship we have always had balcony cabins, however now with my wifes disability we do spend far more time in the cabin and on the balcony than we did when we were both able bodied.

So my advice to you is to enjoy having the extra money to spend from your inside cabin savings while you can, and hopefully until wel into your old age.

[Somerset Cruiser]

28 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Lots of booking systems for hotels, restaurants and services etc have opt ins for the suppliers to turn on to make them look busier than they are rather than show everything available from the start

True but removing 1 type of cabin isn't doing that, not in this instance, but it is removing choice and may well stop some people booking. 

[gsmt47471015]

The main reason we have usually booked at launch is to obtain our cabin of choice ,and it has worked 100% of the time ,this has been a major gain for us as we have booked quite a lot of long duration cruises ,Three 35, two 65 and the world cruise as well as numerous 17 and twenty odd nighters, however over the past couple of years by doing so we have paid thousands more than late comers ,who in some instances have secured better grade cabins than us , on our up coming world cruise the cabin two doors from us was advertised at over £2000 less than we paid and with £600 more obc , so on a personal level if this new pricing structure comes into force industry wise we would be happy to book so far in advance as we are both in a position to do so ,if not we had already decided that we would take our chances and book nearer the time if an itinerary caught our eye because of the massive price variation .

That been said P and O do not visit any of the destinations we still want to visit so it will be Princess or Celebrity after our pre booked ones are taken. 

[Cathygh]

So if prices start high and remain high, the ships will not sail full, and fewer staff will be required? So a weird way of cst cutting? Sounds like nonsense to me.