Smokey on Iona

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

According to our local fire brigade, fires caused by overheated appliances using lithium batteries are very common, and investigation reveals the usual reason is a cheap unbranded or fake charger, charging cable, or sometimes replacement battery, frequently purchased from one of the on-line marketplaces.

This does not mean that a fault cannot develop in a "proper" appliance - just that it is not a common cause.

And, of course, most of us are reading/adding to this forum using a lithium battery powered device.

.

Attached link to an extremely interesting Govt website, which shows how much work is being done trying to control imports.

https://www.gov.uk/product-safety-alerts-reports-recalls

 

The seventh item down could have interesting consequences!  

[Bill Y]

Lithium batteries have been a cause of concern for some time Airlines state the maximum capacity that will be permitted but it's rarely checked/enforced. In 2018 DW was stopped at PEK at mag & bag. A power pack that she used for phone and tablet was examined, they wanted to check that it was within spec, but it was inside a cloth pouch with no markings, they cut it open and the only marking was "Made in China", As there was no capacity rating displayed it could not allowed despite it only being physically small. I pointed to the made in China label and they were not amused.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Bill Y

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Bill Y said:

Lithium batteries have been a cause of concern for some time Airlines state the maximum capacity that will be permitted but it's rarely checked/enforced. In 2018 DW was stopped at PEK at mag & bag. A power pack that she used for phone and tablet was examined, they wanted to check that it was within spec, but it was inside a cloth pouch with no markings, they cut it open and the only marking was "Made in China", As there was no capacity rating displayed it could not allowed despite it only being physically small. I pointed to the made in China label and they were not amused.

Since 99% of small electronic devices are made in China, or other far eastern countries many less sophisticated than China, then if that is the criteria for not allowingthose items on a plane or ship, then we will all be affected.

[TigerB]

5 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

The seventh item down could have interesting consequences!  

 

Bugger! Something else I have to return 🙄

[yorkshirephil]

13 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Since 99% of small electronic devices are made in China, or other far eastern countries many less sophisticated than China, then if that is the criteria for not allowingthose items on a plane or ship, then we will all be affected.

Lithium batteries can be safely shipped by land sea and air. It is a case of following the regulations and completing the dangerous goods shipment documentation correctly. This was my main duty in my latter years of employment, albeit we didn't ship batteries we did ship significant amounts of lithium compounds which are far more difficult to ship than batteries. The whole process can be a bit of a nightmare especially as some countries seem to be able to get products onboard that then get snagged on entry at our end, whereas if one of our shippers mistypes an entry or types up to the line on a shipping box the shipment gets bounced. 

[ace2542]

I wonder if they will ban lithum batteries and ergo mechnical scooters and wheelchairs. Which would end cruising for some people?

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

I wonder if they will ban lithum batteries and ergo mechnical scooters and wheelchairs. Which would end cruising for some people?

No chance, what powers your smart phone, camera etc etc

[CruisingWheelchair]

I’m a full time electric wheelchair user but my battery is a Gell Cell, not all mobility scooters or electric wheelchairs have lithium batteries. 
on a serious question how can a battery just explode? 
Does anyone know the exact true story to what happened here?

if you want to ban mobility scooters and electric wheelchairs firstly that’s discrimination and second your have to ban all batteries including, mobile phones, cameras, speakers, iPads, laptops, etc….. 

has it been confirmed it was a lithium battery? I’m asking as usually when a lithium battery catches fire they produce a lot of heat, bright white light and very dramatic. I’ve only seen one picture of this battery in question on the ground with a staff member putting it out with a fire extinguisher, which doesn’t look like a usual lithium battery fire. (Hubby Fire Department as Watch Manager for 25 years)

Edited October 27, 2023 by CruisingWheelchair
Added

[Cash123]

Quote "It depends on the aid.  I can get around a cabin and to the toilet, but cannot walk much further than that and I have never been asked to have an accessible cabin on  P & O, including IONA.  All welfare forms have always been filled out.  Admittedly my mobility scooter is very small, only 17  kilos, which we just fold up and put in the cabin."

 

This is interesting as we wanted to take my wifes mobility scooter but after filling out the accessability form P & O informed us we would not be able to bring it onboard as we had not booked either an accessability cabin or one of the deignated cabins on their list.

 

We even upgrade to a full suite for the extra room and told P & O the scooter was the folding type and was not going to be used in the cabin just when out but still no joy, they did recommend a hire company but when I phone them they do not hire in the caribbean so all P & O have allowed is for us to bring either a manual or motorised wheelchair, we have looked at a hire company here in the UK which does a manual wheelchair but has a small motor hooked on the back with a single wheel which means it becomes motorised but looking at £300 to hire it for a couple of weeks.

 

So have you taken a mobility scooter on board without booking one of the desingated cabins ?

 

cheers

 

 

[davecttr]

This video is informative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nz5ijXcckI

 

[Harry Peterson]

9 hours ago, davecttr said:

This video is informative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nz5ijXcckI

 

A point very well made, Dave.  I wonder what checks there are on phones, powerbanks and e-cigarettes?  Or what's actually feasible.

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

A point very well made, Dave.  I wonder what checks there are on phones, powerbanks and e-cigarettes?  Or what's actually feasible.

The problem is that the batteries can be fine when new and would likely pass any quality control/assurance inspections, however several years/months later when they have been knocked about/dropped several times and hairline cracks etc start forming or the wrong chargers are used or they are left plugged in for longer periods than is recommended problems arise. A lot of these batteries contain several nasty chemicals and once the casing cracks the vapours escape and ignite. 

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

The problem is that the batteries can be fine when new and would likely pass any quality control/assurance inspections, however several years/months later when they have been knocked about/dropped several times and hairline cracks etc start forming or the wrong chargers are used or they are left plugged in for longer periods than is recommended problems arise. A lot of these batteries contain several nasty chemicals and once the casing cracks the vapours escape and ignite. 

Nerd alert 🤓

 

I use lithium batteries for my model railway locomotives and you have to be careful with charging. including no trickle charging when fully charged. I had a fire a few years ago when there was a short in the wiring (my fault) It was interesting watching the loco doing a scale 60mph with 2 inch flames issuing from the tender. It stopped after a few seconds because the battery was only 0.6 watts. My largest batteries are 600mAh with 2.2 watts.

 

 

 

 

[Trevor Fountain]

I see Madrid have banned electric scooters on their transport due to exploding batteries.

 

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/10/27/electric-scooters-banned-madrid-public-transport-incident-involving-exploding-battery/?utm_source=breaking&utm_medium=internal&utm_campaign=promoted-stories

[scooby1]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:51 PM, CruisingWheelchair said:

Does anyone know the exact true story to what happened here?

if you want to ban mobility scooters and electric wheelchairs firstly that’s discrimination and second your have to ban all batteries including, mobile phones, cameras, speakers, iPads, laptops, etc….. 

has it been confirmed it was a lithium battery? I’m asking as usually when a lithium battery catches fire they produce a lot of heat, bright white light and very dramatic. I’ve only seen one picture of this battery in question on the ground with a staff member putting it out with a fire extinguisher, which doesn’t look like a usual lithium battery fire. (Hubby Fire Department as Watch Manager for 25 years)

There was indeed a bright light intense fire which faded as the fire went from cell to cell as I’ve pointed out. The ship itself also reported it as a Lithum battery fire and gave a very lengthy talk / overview of the safety protocols passengers should follow. Also on Iona I noticed that for the first time it even has a plaque in each room not to leave things charging unattended or overnight that I’ve not seen before on any ship, showing their concerns of more frequent occurrences maybe of any battery type. 
 

As others have pointed out many batteries are safe but with time many have more issues due to damage, be that water or miss-use either physical or electrical. When the cells go as per that prior link they go and as a fire they are VERY hard to put out especially higher powered batteries as they escalate.  
 

I and others along with the things P&O have brought it understand the balance these policies need to strike especially when it could reduce some people’s mobility; but a balance does need to be found. If the worst did happen and a major fire was caused all would be calling out more couldn’t be done, better to limit the risk a little in the first place which it seems they are starting to do which seems a good pragmatic approach. 

[ace2542]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:29 PM, davecttr said:

No chance, what powers your smart phone, camera etc etc

Depends if these are the same batteries on these motorised wheelchairs or scooters the same as the ones in these bikes that are going on fire in houses? They are not going to risk that on an cruise ship cabin and if they stop customers from charging them up onboard what then?

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Depends if these are the same batteries on these motorised wheelchairs or scooters the same as the ones in these bikes that are going on fire in houses? They are not going to risk that on an cruise ship cabin and if they stop customers from charging them up onboard what then?

I doubt that any major holiday company would consider banning motorised wheelchairs or scooters, unless there is a govt move to do so, due to battery issues.  If they did I am fairly certain that someone would be using the disability discrimination legislation to seek to overturn any such ban.

[9265359]

On 10/28/2023 at 8:22 PM, scooby1 said:

Also on Iona I noticed that for the first time it even has a plaque in each room not to leave things charging unattended or overnight

 

And of course everyone is going to take notice of that, and not charge their phone, iPad, Kindle, watch, camera, etc. all containing lithium batteries when they are not in the cabin or overnight.

[zap99]

1 hour ago, 9265359 said:

 

And of course everyone is going to take notice of that, and not charge their phone, iPad, Kindle, watch, camera, etc. all containing lithium batteries when they are not in the cabin or overnight.

We were charging my razor and tablet this morning. When we went out, we turned them off. We never leave things on charge unattended. We do the same in hotels and cruise ships.

[9265359]

10 hours ago, zap99 said:

We were charging my razor and tablet this morning. When we went out, we turned them off. We never leave things on charge unattended. We do the same in hotels and cruise ships.

 

Meanwhile I am glad that the newer P&O ships have an 'always on' plug in the cabins, that doesn't require a card in the slot for the socket to be live.

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, 9265359 said:

 

Meanwhile I am glad that the newer P&O ships have an 'always on' plug in the cabins, that doesn't require a card in the slot for the socket to be live.

Interesting, where are they on Iona and Arvia

[9265359]

1 hour ago, davecttr said:

Interesting, where are they on Iona and Arvia

 

IIRC behind the kettle.

[Bin man]

No sign of scorch marks on marble .Endless pools out of use for the whole cruise due to maintenance. So 5400 passengers using Jacuzzis rather cramped Middle pool out of use due to rough seas .Overcast today in Vigo hope weather improves .

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, davecttr said:

Interesting, where are they on Iona and Arvia

My power is always on, I use an old credit card and leave it in the slot. I just have to remember to remove it on the last morning.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Bin man said:

No sign of scorch marks on marble .Endless pools out of use for the whole cruise due to maintenance. So 5400 passengers using Jacuzzis rather cramped Middle pool out of use due to rough seas .Overcast today in Vigo hope weather improves .

Oh dear, that sounds rather grim.  I hope things improve.  At least the weather should get better soon once you're clear of that area.

 

Did you encounter the really rough stuff that Selbourne has been mentioning over on Ventura? It sounds like it's been quite a trip on there.