WiFi pricing increasing next week

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

 

Actually - about 90% of the onboard infrastructure is identical.

The only real difference is the Starlink router.

 

 

More google stats? Next cruise look at all the radomes. The number and positions change. They are not interchangeable.

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

More google stats? Next cruise look at all the radomes. The number and positions change. They are not interchangeable.

 

Not Google stats... Computer Engineer who was a designer on the Pentium 4, has been building and designing networks since Apollo token ring, and remembers using 1200 baud modems you had to put the phone handset on after rotary dialing the number ala the movie WarGames.

 

Providing WiFi coverage to the ship is exactly the same whether you plug all those routers/AP's on the ship into a Starlink router to access the internet, or some other router to access the internet.

 

Changing the LAN-WAN interface doesn't require any changes in the existing LAN.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, aborgman said:

 

Not Google stats... Computer Engineer who was a designer on the Pentium 4, has been building and designing networks since Apollo token ring, and remembers using 1200 baud modems you had to put the phone handset on after rotary dialing the number ala the movie WarGames.

 

Providing WiFi coverage to the ship is exactly the same whether you plug all those routers/AP's on the ship into a Starlink router to access the internet, or some other router to access the internet.

 

Changing the LAN-WAN interface doesn't require any changes in the existing LAN.

 

 

I remember 300 baud modems and back when dinosaurs roamed used to repurpose guidance system computers out of Minuteman missiles. The infrastructure on the ship .doesn't have to change. How it gets to/from space does.

[aborgman]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I remember 300 baud modems and back when dinosaurs roamed used to repurpose guidance system computers out of Minuteman missiles. The infrastructure on the ship .doesn't have to change. How it gets to/from space does.

 

Well - yes... that IS what the point of the Starlink router is.

 

...and the first thing to note is that Starlink uses flat panel antennas, not antennas in radomes... and they sell for a whopping $400 each with a pedestal mount...and the current installations I know of on RCL use a total of about 8 antennas (at ~350 MBPS per antenna).

 

Based on some RCL passengers with internet doing a bunch of fun "curl", "traceroute", and "ping" activity - they seem to be pretty actively load balancing across the antenna array.

 

 

[ohioNCLcruiser]

19 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

5 Major Hotel Brands That Still Charge For Wi-Fi

 

https://www.mapquest.com/travel/5-major-hotel-brands-that-still-charge-for-wi-fi/

While I know satellite ship internet can't be compared to land internet, this list is very outdated. These brands offer free wifi and Starwood hotels has been part of Marriott for over 7 years now. 

[BlerkOne]

43 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Well - yes... that IS what the point of the Starlink router is.

 

...and the first thing to note is that Starlink uses flat panel antennas, not antennas in radomes... and they sell for a whopping $400 each with a pedestal mount...and the current installations I know of on RCL use a total of about 8 antennas (at ~350 MBPS per antenna).

 

Based on some RCL passengers with internet doing a bunch of fun "curl", "traceroute", and "ping" activity - they seem to be pretty actively load balancing across the antenna array.

 

 

The satellite communication gear on Carnival is still in radomes for protection from the corrosive environment.

 

Starlink commercial antennas are much more than $400. They can cost over $100K.

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, ohioNCLcruiser said:

While I know satellite ship internet can't be compared to land internet, this list is very outdated. These brands offer free wifi and Starwood hotels has been part of Marriott for over 7 years now. 

It was partly to point out the absurdity of debate by Google.

[jimbo5544]

Marriott. Does not offer free wifi

 

Member BenefitsEnjoy endless benefits with Marriott Bonvoy membership. Stay connected. Members enjoy complimentary Wi-Fi. Use our mobile app to check into your room, then use your phone as your room key.

 

Hilton does not offer free wifi

 

 

oes Hilton Honors offer free WiFi?

 

 

When you join Hilton Honors, you'll instantly have 'Member'-level benefits available when you book directly through Hilton: Free Wi-Fi.

 

ow much is hotel wifi?

 

 

While many budget and midscale hotel chains have largely given up on charging guests for Wi-Fi, fees persist at more luxurious sister hotels — typically about $9.95 to $19.95 a day

[AstoriaPreppy]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

I remember 300 baud modems and back when dinosaurs roamed used to repurpose guidance system computers out of Minuteman missiles. The infrastructure on the ship .doesn't have to change. How it gets to/from space does.

 

From my experience, infrastructure on the ship can make a huge difference. When we sailed Celebrity Infinity (one of their oldest/not refurbished ships) earlier this year, we were excited to find Starlink installed... but then realized the routers and wifi system onboard hadn't been meaningfully updated in 10+ years.

 

This meant users were unable to log onto the network entirely or booted randomly while moving through the ship. It was particularly bad in spaces with more than ten or so people trying to use the internet simultaneously, where you'd have to repeatedly attempt to log onto the network for 15 minutes or so, while getting constant notifications to restart the router to pick a better channel with less interference.

 

 

[aborgman]

56 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The satellite communication gear on Carnival is still in radomes for protection from the corrosive environment.

 

Starlink commercial antennas are much more than $400. They can cost over $100K.

 

 

Here is a picture of the Starlink antennas. No radomes. Flat panel antennas.

 

 

...and Starlink Maritime antennas - when bought from Starlink, are currently less than $2500 each with full assembly/attachment kit.
 

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

 

Here is a picture of the Starlink antennas. No radomes. Flat panel antennas.

 

 

Not Carnival.

 

Carnival

[BlerkOne]

22 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

 

From my experience, infrastructure on the ship can make a huge difference. When we sailed Celebrity Infinity (one of their oldest/not refurbished ships) earlier this year, we were excited to find Starlink installed... but then realized the routers and wifi system onboard hadn't been meaningfully updated in 10+ years.

 

This meant users were unable to log onto the network entirely or booted randomly while moving through the ship. It was particularly bad in spaces with more than ten or so people trying to use the internet simultaneously, where you'd have to repeatedly attempt to log onto the network for 15 minutes or so, while getting constant notifications to restart the router to pick a better channel with less interference.

 

 

This is true.

 

I was on Infinity in February and the Internet was horrible. and that was after I paid for an upgraded experience. The access points can be bottlenecks if there aren't enough of them - like one per cabin and many more distributed around the ship. Installing Starlink is not just a matter of plug and play of Startlink equipment.

 

Regular Starlink Mobile is really just for land use at under 10mph. Something like a cruise ship has to pay for priority data.

[mz-s]

I don't think ships need 1 AP per cabin but they need a lot of them because the steel walls and doors do a fantastic job of blocking the signal. Far more than your average hotel would need.

[aborgman]

11 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

This is true.

 

I was on Infinity in February and the Internet was horrible. and that was after I paid for an upgraded experience. The access points can be bottlenecks if there aren't enough of them - like one per cabin and many more distributed around the ship. Installing Starlink is not just a matter of plug and play of Startlink equipment.

 

Regular Starlink Mobile is really just for land use at under 10mph. Something like a cruise ship has to pay for priority data.

 

Installing Starlink is just a matter of plug and play of Startlink equipment IF the onboard WiFi infrastructure can support it.

 

8 minutes ago, mz-s said:

I don't think ships need 1 AP per cabin but they need a lot of them because the steel walls and doors do a fantastic job of blocking the signal. Far more than your average hotel would need.

 

Probably do need almost one per room due the physics involved - if the doors weren't mostly metal things would be different.

 

Cheapest answer for good coverage would be AP's with SMA antenna extenders run into the rooms - just the cost of an SMA cable and 2.4/5GHz SMA antenna for each room, and share access points among multiple rooms.

[aborgman]

37 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Not Carnival.

 

Carnival

 

 

https://api.starlink.com/public-files/Carnival.pdf

 

[ohioNCLcruiser]

3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Marriott. Does not offer free wifi

 

Member BenefitsEnjoy endless benefits with Marriott Bonvoy membership. Stay connected. Members enjoy complimentary Wi-Fi. Use our mobile app to check into your room, then use your phone as your room key.

 

Hilton does not offer free wifi

 

 

oes Hilton Honors offer free WiFi?

 

 

When you join Hilton Honors, you'll instantly have 'Member'-level benefits available when you book directly through Hilton: Free Wi-Fi.

 

ow much is hotel wifi?

 

 

While many budget and midscale hotel chains have largely given up on charging guests for Wi-Fi, fees persist at more luxurious sister hotels — typically about $9.95 to $19.95 a day

 

All what Marriott and Hilton require is for someone to have joined their free loyalty program. Taking 10 seconds to sign up for a free program (which most people are already in to get the points for their stay) which gives you free wifi certainly makes the wifi free. If Carnival said "sign up for our newsletter to get free wifi" people would certainly be arguing that the wifi is free. 

[ohioNCLcruiser]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Not Carnival.

 

Carnival

The photo that you say is not Carnival is definitely Carnival and that is how all Starlink equipped ships across all cruise lines look. Starlink does not come in a dome. Anyway, the rest of the infrastructure makes a big difference in reliable connections also. That is why the Mardi Gras class is wonderful with its routers literally everywhere. 

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, ohioNCLcruiser said:

The photo that you say is not Carnival is definitely Carnival and that is how all Starlink equipped ships across all cruise lines look. Starlink does not come in a dome. Anyway, the rest of the infrastructure makes a big difference in reliable connections also. That is why the Mardi Gras class is wonderful with its routers literally everywhere. 

But there are no chair hogs?

 

Starlink doesn't sell domes, but the antennas can certainly operate inside of domes, as long as they are transparent to the specific frequencies. Will last longer, too.

[BlerkOne]

At least one of the Fantasy class had individual stateroom access points. Carnival was head of the curve.

[jimbo5544]

14 hours ago, ohioNCLcruiser said:

 

All what Marriott and Hilton require is for someone to have joined their free loyalty program. Taking 10 seconds to sign up for a free program (which most people are already in to get the points for their stay) which gives you free wifi certainly makes the wifi free. If Carnival said "sign up for our newsletter to get free wifi" people would certainly be arguing that the wifi is free. 

Apples and oranges.  The majority of people that stay in a hotel change do NOT have the loyalty program (so far as I know, they are all free to join) so if those people want internet they have to pay for it.  Is it an enticement? Sure. People traveling, going from here to there stay in a hotel that meets their requirements along the way, do they join every loyalty program in advance to get basic free wifi?  Of course they do not.  Still does not change the facts.  Someone please drag the dead horse out of the room.

[Joebucks]

22 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

 

Actually - about 90% of the onboard infrastructure is identical.

The only real difference is the Starlink router.

 

The one they are selling for ships is ~$10,000 for the hardware, and ~$5000/month for the service.

 

Figure the average cruise ship is spending something like $80 per day per person on food. Food waste runs around 20%-30%. Call it $15 per day per person in food just thrown in the trash.

 

On a 2,000 person ship - that Starlink costs less than $0.10 per day per person.

 

 

This is grossly incorrect. That $5,000 monthly plan is for 5 TB of download. A 6000 passenger cruise ship would far exceed that in one sea day. The technology is definitely not there yet to provide full wifi to everyone on every ship for 10 cents a day. 

 

Again, even when that day comes, the cruise lines will make up the revenue elsewhere. 

[aborgman]

40 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

This is grossly incorrect. That $5,000 monthly plan is for 5 TB of download. A 6000 passenger cruise ship would far exceed that in one sea day. The technology is definitely not there yet to provide full wifi to everyone on every ship for 10 cents a day. 

 

 

 

Average mobile data use is around 1GB per day - So yes, 6000 passengers all using standard mobile data amounts would eat up 5TB per day assuming no data capping.

 

"Again, even when that day comes, the cruise lines will make up the revenue elsewhere. "

 

Of course, they always do. I'm just noting that:

 

1) It's going to happen

2) Fares already subsidize lots of things that some people, but not all use (gyms, pools, etc.)

3) The dollar values in question aren't ludicrously out of line with numerous other cruise expenses.

 

Say the ship does use 5TB per day. Call it 150TB/month at $5K per 5TB.

That is $0.83 per passenger per day.