Rhine water levels 2024 and similar topics

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

I did Vienna to Basel with Uniworld in 2011. We did not go into the Rhine Gorge. We turned upstream on the Rhine to Basel.

That is interesting. So you did not go to Rüdesheim and a bit further. Have seen a couple of itineraries where there was a sailing into the Gorge. Down to Boppard and then back to Mainz is a good way of doing this, one does not need to go all the way to Koblenz.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Quick interlude and return to a topic of last year - the accident at Iffezheim lock. This was major and it may well affect you slightly this year on an itinerary as at Iffezheim still only one lock chamber is usable. One gate at the second lock was severely damaged when a ship hit it and will now finally be replaced. This is a German news article:

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/karlsruhe/schleuse-iffezheim-reparatur-nach-schiffsunfall-rhein-100.html

 

notamermaid

 

[gnome12]

40 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

That is interesting. So you did not go to Rüdesheim and a bit further. Have seen a couple of itineraries where there was a sailing into the Gorge. Down to Boppard and then back to Mainz is a good way of doing this, one does not need to go all the way to Koblenz.

 

notamermaid

 

Actually, we did go to Rüdesheim before we turned around. I had forgotten that, mostly because except for taking the cable car up to the monument I hated the touristy place. 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

Actually, we did go to Rüdesheim before we turned around.

I see. Hmm, I would not put it such words as you say, but I do not like Rüdesheim either. The cable car is great if you enjoy heights and views but other than that I cannot see that sailing the distance from Mainz, here I mean mouth of the river Main, to Rüdesheim is merited by what you get to see. I regard Bingen (on the other river bank) and Eltville (nearby town) as superior in interesting cultural aspects. Yet, if one enjoys the old charm of a town that lives from wine and of wine/river tourists including day trippers then it is pleasant enough. It is not for me.

 

For anyone new to "alternative" towns, here is a thread on them: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2516698-rhine-beyond-the-standard-ports/

Both Bingen and Eltville are featured.

 

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

16 hours ago, fshagan said:

We booked a Basel to Amsterdam cruise on Viva Cruises on the Viva One starting 17 Sep. It's our first river cruise so we are really looking forward to it! Hoping the water levels stay good all summer until then.

First river cruise and on Viva Cruises sounds unusual. Are you in Europe? Viva Cruises have recently been targeting the North American market but are far from a household name there yet.

 

notamermaid

 

[the_travel_locks]

9 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Hello to you in Melbourne.

That is one of the itineraries that I put in the "Grand European" category, but it is an unusual one. Sailing from Basel to just before Mainz and then "turning right" to sail the Main and all the way to Budapest on the Danube is an interesting variation. Will there be a short trip into the Rhine Gorge either sailing or by coach? If you sail straight onto the Main river you will not see it.

 

notamermaid

 

Hello and thank you so much for the tip about Rhine Gorge, we've just checked the itinerary and luckily it is included. After Basel, Breisach and Strasbourg, rather than turning directly right into the Main, we will take a detour to Rudesheim and sail through the Rhine Gorge to Boppard before moving into the Main River. Really looking forward to it. Fingers crossed water levels everywhere will be fine in early to mid July.

[notamermaid]

2 minutes ago, the_travel_locks said:

After Basel, Breisach and Strasbourg, rather than turning directly right into the Main, we will take a detour to Rudesheim and sail through the Rhine Gorge to Boppard before moving into the Main River.

Whooheyy! Or something. Means I am a bit surprised and happy that I am right about Boppard. Great to read that you will see this splendid part of "my" river. An added bonus to the itinerary. Enjoy.

 

Just a quick note about the Main river. There is a thread https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2670259-the-river-main-infos-and-river-cruising-experiences/

in which you will read that the river has so many low bridges that the sundeck may be closed for a long time while you are sailing. Most ships are too high for the superstructure to stay up, that is the wheelhouse (which will be lowered as needed) and the tarpaulins (for hiding from rain and sun) and even potentially the railings. That is something not unique to the Main, but there it is kind of standard. On the Rhine this is almost never a problem. Another bridge that is sometimes a problem, i.e. when the river level gets high, is the one at Passau. More details on that are in the Danube thread.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[fshagan]

On 3/13/2024 at 1:41 PM, notamermaid said:

First river cruise and on Viva Cruises sounds unusual. Are you in Europe? Viva Cruises have recently been targeting the North American market but are far from a household name there yet.

 

notamermaid

No, we're Americans. We found Viva and a few other lines we had not heard of before on YouTube. One YouTube creator we follow moved to Germany a few years back, and he went on Viva's Tiara and liked it. We decided we wanted to go on either the Viva One or Viva Two. We decided on the cruise dates based on when we could get good business class fares. We also looked at others, like Nicko but decided Viva was probably a better fit.

 

Like most Americans, we have German ancestors and we've always wanted to visit. This will give us a taste of Germany for later visits (I hope) and allow us to meet people from Europe on-board instead of just our fellow Americans and Canadians.

[notamermaid]

Interesting. I have looked at some English language youtube videos on German river cruise lines recently.

16 hours ago, fshagan said:

We also looked at others, like Nicko but decided Viva was probably a better fit.

Nicko does a very good job on the German market, but overall I would say that Viva Cruises will be a better fit for most North Americans.

16 hours ago, fshagan said:

meet people from Europe on-board instead of just our fellow Americans and Canadians.

I agree. Not sure what the ratio is but Viva Cruises will in all likelihood still have a large proportion of Germans and also some Europeans on board. As far as I know Viva Cruises is bi-lingual rather than dedicating some itinerary dates to the international market.

 

Until a few years ago I had no idea just how many Americans have either direct German ancestors or marry into that ancestry. You know, you may trace your family and everyone is Irish/English/French/Polish or whatever and then you meet the love of your life whose grandparents came from a tiny village in the Palatinate (which is the second half in the state name Rhineland-Palatinate).

 

There are dedicated local amateur historians in the Rhineland and elsewhere, some have gone to great lengths writing brochures or entire books on the topic. Alexander Emmerich is a professional historian renowned for his books on North America and especially the Germans emigrating to the US. He wrote a biography on John Jacob Astor.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

I just throw in a brief report on water levels. Maxau gauge up and down at pleasant levels over the mean. Kaub gauge stable above 200cm for the next week or so. All good.

 

Temperatures are pleasant, single or double digits during the afternoon, intermittent rain. Trees are blooming more and more, fruit trees have started.White blossoms are slowly filling gardens and parks. And if you like Japanese cherry blossoms then bookmark this website and check in over the next two weeks to see the spectacle in Bonn virtually: http://www.kirschbluete-bonn.de/blog-3/

 

notamermaid

 

[fshagan]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Not sure what the ratio is but Viva Cruises will in all likelihood still have a large proportion of Germans and also some Europeans on board. As far as I know Viva Cruises is bi-lingual rather than dedicating some itinerary dates to the international market.

 

Until a few years ago I had no idea just how many Americans have either direct German ancestors or marry into that ancestry. You know, you may trace your family and everyone is Irish/English/French/Polish or whatever and then you meet the love of your life whose grandparents came from a tiny village in the Palatinate (which is the second half in the state name Rhineland-Palatinate).

 

About 49 million Americans self identify as fully German or have partial German ancestry, making Germans the largest self-reported ancestry group in the USA. But I think that's actually a low estimate because many don't identify as German. The first and second world wars suppressed a lot of the enthusiasm for our American parents and grandparents to claim German heritage, so a lot of Americans are surprised when they do genealogy. The most common mistake is that they are Dutch or English, based on where ships departed ... but the largest single migration in the 1700s was from the Palatinate. Even Jamestown in the 1600s had German immigrants along with the English.

 

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

There are dedicated local amateur historians in the Rhineland and elsewhere, some have gone to great lengths writing brochures or entire books on the topic. Alexander Emmerich is a professional historian renowned for his books on North America and especially the Germans emigrating to the US. He wrote a biography on John Jacob Astor.

 

Thanks for those tips! A quick search showed only the Astor biography in English, but I'll keep an eye out for other English translations. We plan to do a land-based "roots trip" vacation in the future to see some of the places where we believe our ancestors originated.

[notamermaid]

21 minutes ago, fshagan said:

A quick search showed only the Astor biography in English

Yes, I think that may be the only book in English unfortunately. He worked at the Heidelberg Center for American Studies. This is his project there on emigrants I think:

“John Jacob Astor,” in Thomas Adam and Will
Kaufman, eds., Germany and the Americas:
Culture, History and Politics (Santa Barbara: ABC
Clio, 2005), 105–108.
“Perry Friedman,” ibid., 389.
“The German Society of the City of New York,”
ibid., 430–31.
 

This is a website that has compiled links. It was quite a large project on emigration that has run its course, so some info may be outdated. It is all in German, but a few links go to English language sites: https://www.auswanderung-rlp.de/das-projekt/weblinks.html

 

One unusual aspect are the German-Irish farmers. Those are people who came from the Palatinate and did not get as far as the Americas. Part of those came with the large influx in the early 1700's: https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2015/09/the-poor-palatines.html

 

notamermaid

 

[fshagan]

 

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

This is a website that has compiled links. It was quite a large project on emigration that has run its course, so some info may be outdated. It is all in German, but a few links go to English language sites: https://www.auswanderung-rlp.de/das-projekt/weblinks.html

 

Thanks for the link to the German website. Google Chrome is able to translate it so I have a better idea of the resources it covers.

[Canal archive]

If anyone in the United States needs to understand that their heritage is somewhat diverse. Visit San Antonio and look at the lists of where people originate from at the Alamo. I know that history is convoluted what isn’t. In my older years I’ve taken up the study of a fairly near history, Georgian to the present day  is now my focus. We were absolutely surprised at the variety of heritages these amazing people came from. Us Brits are a soup of ethnicity but from so far back we need specialist DNA to spotlight the different areas in most cases. For myself it’s French because my fathers, fathers, father …. Originated from the Channel Islands but was that Viking French or Mediterranean French?

So think we all meet together on boat cruising through Europe and don’t know if our forefathers/mothers fought each other, emigrated together or what. We’re all there to in the first instance enjoy ourselves when maybe a few millennia ago we would have been at each other’s throats or ‘cruising’ across the pond to found a new country.

[notamermaid]

15 hours ago, fshagan said:

 

 

Thanks for the link to the German website. Google Chrome is able to translate it so I have a better idea of the resources it covers.

Good. I was hoping a translation machine of sorts could help.

 

11 hours ago, Canal archive said:

So think we all meet together on boat cruising through Europe and don’t know if our forefathers/mothers fought each other, emigrated together or what.

Had not thought about that before. It need not even be a connection "in the mists of time", one may meet a great-great-cousin (or whatever the term is) and never know.

 

Probably not my family, they are all from the Rhineland, Hesse or Franconia as far as I know. But I am not ruling out that a second son of an ancestor in the 18th century did venture further than the Rhine's border with the Netherlands.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

16 hours ago, Canal archive said:

So think we all meet together on boat cruising through Europe and don’t know if our forefathers/mothers fought each other, emigrated together or what.

Or all of the above or some variation.  My grandfather came to the US from what is now Ukraine, by going AWOL from the Austrian Army.  But I don't think he actually saw combat (he was a shoemaker, too valuable to risk on the front lines...)

[Canal archive]

Legend (from my Dad) has it that I have an Uncle who was in the Royal Navy and jumped ship during WW2 in Canada, Vancouver side. Now Dad had at least four brothers and two sisters all we’ve lost touch with but Mums sister emigrated to Canada (that’s the reason we got to see a wonderful country)and had two children we are still in touch,  plus two brothers to Australia lost to us now. Such a pity my DH was an only child of only children he as far as we know is the last of his line.

[sharkster77]

We always assumed that both sides of my family came from French Canadian Quebecois.  But dad always spoke about being visited by 'Belgian uncles', which we always wondered about.  My sister and I have researched our genealogy and found out that both of my paternal grandparents were descended from Belgian, not Canadian immigrants--dad did not imagine those visits!  It turns out Belgians were recruited to help run New England textile mills--they had experience, and spoke French, as did the Quebecois workers.

 

So my tulip river cruise next month spends a few days in Belgium and that will have special meaning as a result---going to have a nice Belgian beer somewhere and toast my ancestors! 

 

Unfortunately, they were from Wallonia (the French speaking area)--Walloons were (and still are to some degree) treated badly by the Dutch-speaking Flemish.  One example is that even though a big chunk of Belgium speaks French, French is not recognized as a national language and all government business must be conducted in Dutch.  Brussels for some reason is a French city smack dab in the middle of Flanders.

[notamermaid]

3 hours ago, sharkster77 said:

It turns out Belgians were recruited to help run New England textile mills--they had experience, and spoke French, as did the Quebecois workers.

That makes sense. Belgium, i.e. the region Walloon is one of the original industrial revolution regions on the continent. It was an Englishman who went to what is now Belgium, the city of Liege that is, and founded one of the biggest and most successful early iron and steel works of the time. He was called William Cockerill (the elder). His two sons John and William continued the business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cockerill

 

I have done a bit of research about the Cockerills as they did business in Berlin and along the Rhine as well. They started with textiles and the machines but are also connected to early railway construction and shipbuilding; that is how I came across them. In the early days you either got the expertise yourself by going to study the engineering, etc. where they were done, sometimes collecting information "illegally" or you got the workmen who knew their trade to move to your area and work for you. I suppose not too much has changed about that...

 

The years 1790 to 1830 were exciting times in iron and steel - so many pioneers, so much innovation.

 

I have sought out three places; two in Germany, one in Luxembourg; that have textile museums or something similar. It is one of my areas of interest. Unfortunately all are a bit far for day trips so need a bit of organizing.

 

.A bit out of the way of standard river cruises but not too difficult for you to organize folks is a visit to Duisburg to the Museum der Deutschen Binnenschifffahrt. It deals with the German inland waterways and has lots of steel to marvel at.

https://www.binnenschifffahrtsmuseum.de/

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[sharkster77]

12 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

That makes sense. Belgium, i.e. the region Walloon is one of the original industrial revolution regions on the continent. It was an Englishman who went to what is now Belgium, the city of Liege that is, and founded one of the biggest and most successful early iron and steel works of the time. He was called William Cockerill (the elder). His two sons John and William continued the business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cockerill

 

I have done a bit of research about the Cockerills as they did business in Berlin and along the Rhine as well. They started with textiles and the machines but are also connected to early railway construction and shipbuilding; that is how I came across them. In the early days you either got the expertise yourself by going to study the engineering, etc. where they were done, sometimes collecting information "illegally" or you got the workmen who knew their trade to move to your area and work for you. I suppose not too much has changed about that...

 

The years 1790 to 1830 were exciting times in iron and steel - so many pioneers, so much innovation.

 

I have sought out three places; two in Germany, one in Luxembourg; that have textile museums or something similar. It is one of my areas of interest. Unfortunately all are a bit far for day trips so need a bit of organizing.

 

.A bit out of the way of standard river cruises but not too difficult for you to organize folks is a visit to Duisburg to the Museum der Deutschen Binnenschifffahrt. It deals with the German inland waterways and has lots of steel to marvel at.

https://www.binnenschifffahrtsmuseum.de/

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

One side of my dad's family came from Verviers,which is only 33 km from Liege.

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, sharkster77 said:

One side of my dad's family came from Verviers,which is only 33 km from Liege.

I see. The regional website says its history is very much connected with wool and water: https://www.paysdevesdre.be/en/discover/pays-de-vesdre/verviers/

 

Verviers lies on the Vesdre river which flows into the Ourthe (which flows into the Meuse). I looked it up and Wikipedia says that the Vesdre has a high acidity due the bogs in mountains where its source is. It makes the water very suitable for the textile industry.

 

One can see the development: good water that flows, weavers, mills, forests, mountains, iron ore, machines, larger river, steam, foundry, larger ships, steel, railway, bingo! Huge enterprise like Cockerill at Seraing/Liège thrives. Electricity obviously gave another boost. The John Cockerill Group still exists today.

 

[Not to worry, we will get back to the Rhine very quickly, the Meuse and Rhine industries are connected in their history.]

 

notamermaid

 

[Canal archive]

Everyone raves about the Victorian engineers and forgets the incredible Georgians, e.g. no canal system in England without them and we know that many of their ideas were assisted by Europeans. I have a 1765 book in our archive it is ‘A treatise on how to build a canal’ translated from the French the plates at the back are I’m sure where Heath Robinson got his ideas from. No heavy digging equipment but loads of available man power.

[notamermaid]

Where would we be without the canals? Canals in what is now Germany are quite old, I mean the old ones are disused but can still be traced in the landscape. The modern day canals that were built in the Renaissance era and Baroque times or later (we do not think in Georgian or Victorian terms in Germany) are already quite sophisticated. There have been advancements of course and updating and quite frankly much larger structures of dams and locks since then. There was already a canal connecting the Rhine and the Meuse in Roman times called the "Fossa Corbulonis". Master engineers designed it but it was of course built by ordinary men, in this case foot soldiers. Those early structures were strategic and also perfect for keeping soldiers busy when there was no fighting going on. As you rightly say, lots of man power.

 

It may seem slow to us today to transport goods on water with a horse towing the boat but when you look at the roads in those days... It can still be a challenge today which I found out the other week. I went to the Westerwald hills and took a turn into a narrow valley. At first I thought the road was blocked to through-traffic but a sign just gave a slow speed and said that the ride would be bumpy (my words). It was. Our family car that can go down the motorways comfortably and take us to far away places needed to slow down to 10km in parts to keep the suspension fit for purpose. Imagine doing that with one or two horsepower. Where there were no suitable waterways the railways later opened up the hillier areas to faster trade. There are still narrow gauge railways all over the hills today, either in use, as tourist trains or disused (or in a few cases disappeared almost entirely from the landscape).

 

notamermaid

 

 

[ural guy]

Crossed the Rhine at the bridge 20km's downstream from Strasbourg, I'm not sure if this is just the bridge name or also the lock set there.  Pont de Gambsheim.   Anyway, this lock is having work done.

 

 

 

This would be a spot we could add to our tour spot, a UNESCO World Heritage site, 30 years back added as the first to focus on industrial sites, Volklinger Iron Works.  Over 17,000 people worked here, it was only closed in 1986.  You get a workout, lots of walking and catwalk steps.  Amazing the scale of the place.

They had a movie festival that you also walked through, huge screens showing old movies are hung between steam engines that powered the plants.  The movie posters were lots of fun, the different color pallets used over the years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18 by ural guy
spelling

[notamermaid]

Völklinger Hütte iron works is on the Saar and these days quite a popular place. Have not been yet. I think I mentioned it briefly in the Moselle thread (where we also deal with the Saar as it is a tributary of the Moselle). For those who like steel and old stuff this is a magical place.

 

1 hour ago, ural guy said:

I'm not sure if this is just the bridge name or also the lock set there.  Pont de Gambsheim.

You saw Gambsheim lock, that is correct. Earlier in the year the lock was closed for repairs, I did not know that there is still work going on. Apparently, the French authorities are investing a lot of money this year in a major overhaul and updating of Gambsheim lock. I have just checked the French waterways authorities' website. There are two chambers. The lock is actually quite young, only built in 1974. The gates are the original ones, so now after 50 years they need replacing. This is the area, the river is the border, the lock is in France. Construction of the lock and dam was a joined effort:

 

Google maps has marked the view point of the fish passage.

 

notamermaid