Viking Value Comparison- Opinions Wanted

[CCWineLover]

33 minutes ago, Pam said:

I have never cruised Viking although a good friend did.  I got caught up in both 'live from' threads from the world cruisers; i was amazed that Viking had enough passengers to fill two WC ships, then saw that one wasn't totally all WC'ers.  Now they are having the same problem all cruise lines are having with the Red Sea area unrest.

 

But I am reading on both those threads that Viking HQ is changing tours that were paid for with nonrefundable OBC, over to saying they were paid for with refundable OBC and the people are getting very little if any cooperation in their protests.  That is a red flag for anybody  reading along on several cruiselines' WC threads.  Or, that is my opinion.

 

So based on the 2 threads, you would now not go on Viking in the future?

[kctwinmommy]

42 minutes ago, Pam said:

 

But I am reading on both those threads that Viking HQ is changing tours that were paid for with nonrefundable OBC, over to saying they were paid for with refundable OBC and the people are getting very little if any cooperation in their protests.  That is a red flag for anybody  reading along on several cruiselines' WC threads.  Or, that is my opinion.

 

I'm confused. So they used non-refundable OBC to book excursions, which were then cancelled. But Viking is giving them refundable OBC now? That seems like a good thing.

[Pam]

23 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

So based on the 2 threads, you would now not go on Viking in the future?

Did I say that?  I said it was a red flag.  I wouldn't go on Viking based on several reasons, but that wasn't one of them.

Edited March 28 by Pam

[Pam]

12 minutes ago, kctwinmommy said:

I'm confused. So they used non-refundable OBC to book excursions, which were then cancelled. But Viking is giving them refundable OBC now? That seems like a good thing.

No, the opposite.  They were paid using nonrefundable, and Viking has changed them to using refundable.

[kctwinmommy]

11 minutes ago, Pam said:

No, the opposite.  They were paid using nonrefundable, and Viking has changed them to using refundable.

That still seems a better deal. If you have non-refundable, then you're not getting anything back. If you have refundable, then they'll give it back to you. I'm guessing you mean that they paid for something with OBC that was supposed to be refundable if the event/excursion/whatever got cancelled. Then they would get their money back. But you're claiming that these people are being told they used non-refundable credits and aren't getting money back.

[Peregrina651]

21 minutes ago, kctwinmommy said:

That still seems a better deal. If you have non-refundable, then you're not getting anything back. If you have refundable, then they'll give it back to you. I'm guessing you mean that they paid for something with OBC that was supposed to be refundable if the event/excursion/whatever got cancelled. Then they would get their money back. But you're claiming that these people are being told they used non-refundable credits and aren't getting money back.

 

No, Viking is making it such that at the end of the cruise more people will have non-refundable left in their account, that Viking will not have to return to guests at the end of the cruise.  

[CCWineLover]

1 hour ago, Pam said:

Did I say that?  I said it was a red flag.  I wouldn't go on Viking based on several reasons, but that wasn't one of them.

Sorry - I guess I inferred that given that their problem was all you wrote about, not any other reasons.

[kctwinmommy]

51 minutes ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

No, Viking is making it such that at the end of the cruise more people will have non-refundable left in their account, that Viking will not have to return to guests at the end of the cruise.  

OK, I guess I'm totally confused then as it says they changed it to refundable, at least, that's how it's worded. The person said they paid using non-refundable, but Viking switched it to refundable, which to me means they WOULD get it back. I do understand that non-refundable won't be given at the end. Oh well... I just don't understand what happened, but whatever... They don't sound like they want to try Viking much anyway, so doesn't really matter.

[Mich3554]

8 hours ago, CCWineLover said:

Sometimes spreadsheets and analysis don't do the trick - you have to try them out.  There are so many non-dollar subjective aspects to Viking (mentioned in many posts) so for us it is NOT a dollar thing but an emotional experience thing.   

Heck - if we were just comparing $$$ to fly from US to Europe or wherever, we'd always fly economy and never fly business class.  And we'd never eat at an upscale restaurant - food is food.  It is the subjective experieces.  What was the famous ad . . .   the cost for xyz . .  "Priceless"

So much this!  Very well said.  
We are on a 50 day itinerary right now, Bangkok to Vancouver.  When we booked it back in 2021 and are at $620/pp/day in a PV.  

[BlairsvilleCruiseGirl]

23 hours ago, Piredmus said:

OP'er here.  Thank you to everyone for your feedback.  As was to be expected, there is no concrete answer to the question.  I concur with the sentiments offered as to why any cruise may be more desirable than others and realize that cost analysis comparison is not an exact science.

 

That said, we were looking at Australia & SE Asian itineraries of long duration (30 days or so) wherein the Viking numbers were in the $1200 per person-day range, followed by Silversea & Seabourn in the $900 range and for comparison sake, Celebrity was around $500 albeit with an inferior itinerary.  There is no doubt that the value one puts in the selection of a cruise is totally subjective and is not only based on the hard numbers, but the many intangibles that are difficult to assign a value to.

 

As stated, the Viking offering looks very nice and I have no doubt that we will book one of their trips soon.  The only reason for the initial question was to see if I was totally missing something in my analysis, which doesn't appear to be the case.

 

Thanks and happy cruising...see you on the ships.

WooWee! $9000pp is a significant difference when comparing apples to apples! I like Viking, but I can do a lot with $18000 extra!

[Heidi13]

23 hours ago, Piredmus said:

OP'er here.  Thank you to everyone for your feedback.  As was to be expected, there is no concrete answer to the question.  I concur with the sentiments offered as to why any cruise may be more desirable than others and realize that cost analysis comparison is not an exact science.

 

That said, we were looking at Australia & SE Asian itineraries of long duration (30 days or so) wherein the Viking numbers were in the $1200 per person-day range, followed by Silversea & Seabourn in the $900 range and for comparison sake, Celebrity was around $500 albeit with an inferior itinerary.  There is no doubt that the value one puts in the selection of a cruise is totally subjective and is not only based on the hard numbers, but the many intangibles that are difficult to assign a value to.

 

As stated, the Viking offering looks very nice and I have no doubt that we will book one of their trips soon.  The only reason for the initial question was to see if I was totally missing something in my analysis, which doesn't appear to be the case.

 

Thanks and happy cruising...see you on the ships.

 

Conducting a detailed analysis of daily cruise costs on multiple cruise lines is virtually impossible due to the number of monetary and non-monetary variables. Unfortunately, as pax we do not have access to the information required for a detailed analysis by spreadsheet. Just a few of the factors you can't effectively spreadsheet include.

 

Operational Costs

The largest operational costs are fuel and crew costs, with cruise lines having innovative strategies to mitigate some of these costs. Clearly newer ships will be more efficient and have lower fuel costs, but time in port is also a huge factor in fuel costs. Cruise lines are reducing time in port to increase transit times, thereby lowering the speed and fuel consumption. Therefore, comparing not only the number of ports, but the hours in port is a key factor.

 

Port costs, pilotage costs, tug costs are highly variable, so unless multiple cruises visit exactly the same ports, you do not have access to the information required for this component of the daily cost. For example, some ports require mandatory tugs, others do not. Pilot costs also vary significantly, and are not cheap.

 

Maintenance Costs

On Viking, we were extremely happy with the detail provided to maintaining the vessel. This is a significant cost, which some cruise lines cut to maintain an operational budget. Personally, I prefer well maintained ships, I have experienced those that aren't.

 

Crew costs

Smaller ships are at a disadvantage, as vessel operational positions, for example Master, Chief Engineer, watchkeeping officers, etc are mandatory, so small ships require the same number as the large RCI ships. Therefore, each of these positions costs more per pax on smaller ships with less pax. Without knowing crew costs it is impossible to conduct a detailed analysis.

 

You also need to factor in the crew/pax ratio, as this significantly impacts the levels of pax service received onboard. Traditionally, when I started at sea, the ratio was 1:2 (crew/pax), but many cruise lines are now pushing that to 1:3. Viking have maintained the ratio at about 1:2, providing exceptional service onboard

 

Crew remuneration is also a key factor, which as pax, we have no access to that information. However, Viking generally have one of the best, if not the best crew compensation, and terms & conditions of all cruise lines. This is reflected in their very high crew retention rate of over 94% (as of 2000). Happy, well paid crew generally provide better service.

 

Cabins

Comparing the square footage of a cabin is readily available, but in my experience, that is a small portion of the overall cabin experience. How useable is the cabin, is a significantly higher consideration for us, than the amount of space. On most cruise ships, the standing joke regarding the shower is you soap down the sides, nip in, complete a 360 and rinse to complete. The showers on Viking are huge. Heated decks in the bathrooms are also a great feature.

 

Construction quality - how many cruise ships do pax complain about the door slammers and traffic in the alleyway. On some ships, when a door is slammed shut, cabins on both sides, for a number of cabins, vibrate. We never had that experience on Viking and we rarely heard any noise from the alleyway.

 

Pax/Space Ratio

Basically a measure of the vessel's available space per pax. Based on public information, this is determined by dividing the gross tonnage by number of pax. This can be impacted by ships which have the capacity for 3rd and 4th pax in cabins, so total pax count can be higher than the double occupancy count.

 

You also need to consider how the ship is designed. Since we are not interested in a casino or sailing with children, the space on non-Viking ships with casinos and kids clubs is wasted space for us.

 

Meals/Entertainment/Drinks

All of these aspect of the hotel side are highly subjective. The quality of the meals is not just based on a cruise line's daily budget per pax, as the ship's management and specifically the Executive Chef can significantly impact the quality. Have been on a number of cruises where the Executive Chef changed mid-cruise and the quality of meals changed, some better, others not so much. The daily victuals cost per pax is a closely guarded secret, but it may not be the determining factor in meal quality.

 

With respect to entertainment, I personally could not care about the cruise line's cost, provided they have music and shows I enjoy, and high quality lectures.

 

Shore-ex

Yes, the Viking included shore-ex are basic tours in most ports, but we also need to consider that cruise lines generally use the same vendors, and the tour quality is majorly impacted by the guide. How the cruise lines manage shore-ex vendors can also have a significant impact on overall tour quality. Does the cruise line complete regular audits on guides, to ensure a quality product? We found Viking are very diligent and found the general quality of the guides to be better than other cruise lines. Therefore, a basic tour with exceptional guide can be better than a longer tour with poor guide. 

 

When we selected Viking for our 2020 World Cruise, I spent 2 years on research, but didn't conduct an analysis on various cruise line's daily cost, due to the number of unknown variables. My focus was on initially creating our Statement of Requirements, including those that were mandatory and those that were preferred. I researched all the premium and luxury lines, comparing them to our SoR, creating a shortlist of Viking and Oceania. At this time, I also considered specific itineraries.

 

Upon completion of the cruise, I completed a spreadsheet of all actual costs from door to door, comparing it on a per diem basis, to our 2015 World Cruise on Princess. The per diem costs were virtually the same, but the quality on Viking was considerably higher.

 

Therefore, rather than creating a spreadsheet to compare per diem costs, may I suggest developing a detailed SoR and researching cruise lines that meet most of your needs. You can then select options, based on cost and perceived value.

[sharkster77]

4 hours ago, BlairsvilleCruiseGirl said:

WooWee! $9000pp is a significant difference when comparing apples to apples! I like Viking, but I can do a lot with $18000 extra!

In the post that you quote, I see a figure of $900 pp (a comparison of 900 vs 1200 pp).  Where do you get the figure of $9,000 pp?

 

What am I missing?

Edited March 28 by sharkster77

[lackcreativity]

14 minutes ago, sharkster77 said:

In the post that you quote, I see a figure of $900 pp (a comparison of 900 vs 1200 pp).  Where do you get the figure of $9,000 pp?

 

What am I missing?

I think the claim was $900 per person per day compared to $1200 per person per day for a 30 day cruise, so $300 more for each of 30 days. That's $9,000 then double for two people. 

 

Edited March 28 by lackcreativity

[CDNPolar]

15 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Conducting a detailed analysis of daily cruise costs on multiple cruise lines is virtually impossible due to the number of monetary and non-monetary variables. Unfortunately, as pax we do not have access to the information required for a detailed analysis by spreadsheet. Just a few of the factors you can't effectively spreadsheet include.

 

Operational Costs

The largest operational costs are fuel and crew costs, with cruise lines having innovative strategies to mitigate some of these costs. Clearly newer ships will be more efficient and have lower fuel costs, but time in port is also a huge factor in fuel costs. Cruise lines are reducing time in port to increase transit times, thereby lowering the speed and fuel consumption. Therefore, comparing not only the number of ports, but the hours in port is a key factor.

 

Port costs, pilotage costs, tug costs are highly variable, so unless multiple cruises visit exactly the same ports, you do not have access to the information required for this component of the daily cost. For example, some ports require mandatory tugs, others do not. Pilot costs also vary significantly, and are not cheap.

 

Maintenance Costs

On Viking, we were extremely happy with the detail provided to maintaining the vessel. This is a significant cost, which some cruise lines cut to maintain an operational budget. Personally, I prefer well maintained ships, I have experienced those that aren't.

 

Crew costs

Smaller ships are at a disadvantage, as vessel operational positions, for example Master, Chief Engineer, watchkeeping officers, etc are mandatory, so small ships require the same number as the large RCI ships. Therefore, each of these positions costs more per pax on smaller ships with less pax. Without knowing crew costs it is impossible to conduct a detailed analysis.

 

You also need to factor in the crew/pax ratio, as this significantly impacts the levels of pax service received onboard. Traditionally, when I started at sea, the ratio was 1:2 (crew/pax), but many cruise lines are now pushing that to 1:3. Viking have maintained the ratio at about 1:2, providing exceptional service onboard

 

Crew remuneration is also a key factor, which as pax, we have no access to that information. However, Viking generally have one of the best, if not the best crew compensation, and terms & conditions of all cruise lines. This is reflected in their very high crew retention rate of over 94% (as of 2000). Happy, well paid crew generally provide better service.

 

Cabins

Comparing the square footage of a cabin is readily available, but in my experience, that is a small portion of the overall cabin experience. How useable is the cabin, is a significantly higher consideration for us, than the amount of space. On most cruise ships, the standing joke regarding the shower is you soap down the sides, nip in, complete a 360 and rinse to complete. The showers on Viking are huge. Heated decks in the bathrooms are also a great feature.

 

Construction quality - how many cruise ships do pax complain about the door slammers and traffic in the alleyway. On some ships, when a door is slammed shut, cabins on both sides, for a number of cabins, vibrate. We never had that experience on Viking and we rarely heard any noise from the alleyway.

 

Pax/Space Ratio

Basically a measure of the vessel's available space per pax. Based on public information, this is determined by dividing the gross tonnage by number of pax. This can be impacted by ships which have the capacity for 3rd and 4th pax in cabins, so total pax count can be higher than the double occupancy count.

 

You also need to consider how the ship is designed. Since we are not interested in a casino or sailing with children, the space on non-Viking ships with casinos and kids clubs is wasted space for us.

 

Meals/Entertainment/Drinks

All of these aspect of the hotel side are highly subjective. The quality of the meals is not just based on a cruise line's daily budget per pax, as the ship's management and specifically the Executive Chef can significantly impact the quality. Have been on a number of cruises where the Executive Chef changed mid-cruise and the quality of meals changed, some better, others not so much. The daily victuals cost per pax is a closely guarded secret, but it may not be the determining factor in meal quality.

 

With respect to entertainment, I personally could not care about the cruise line's cost, provided they have music and shows I enjoy, and high quality lectures.

 

Shore-ex

Yes, the Viking included shore-ex are basic tours in most ports, but we also need to consider that cruise lines generally use the same vendors, and the tour quality is majorly impacted by the guide. How the cruise lines manage shore-ex vendors can also have a significant impact on overall tour quality. Does the cruise line complete regular audits on guides, to ensure a quality product? We found Viking are very diligent and found the general quality of the guides to be better than other cruise lines. Therefore, a basic tour with exceptional guide can be better than a longer tour with poor guide. 

 

When we selected Viking for our 2020 World Cruise, I spent 2 years on research, but didn't conduct an analysis on various cruise line's daily cost, due to the number of unknown variables. My focus was on initially creating our Statement of Requirements, including those that were mandatory and those that were preferred. I researched all the premium and luxury lines, comparing them to our SoR, creating a shortlist of Viking and Oceania. At this time, I also considered specific itineraries.

 

Upon completion of the cruise, I completed a spreadsheet of all actual costs from door to door, comparing it on a per diem basis, to our 2015 World Cruise on Princess. The per diem costs were virtually the same, but the quality on Viking was considerably higher.

 

Therefore, rather than creating a spreadsheet to compare per diem costs, may I suggest developing a detailed SoR and researching cruise lines that meet most of your needs. You can then select options, based on cost and perceived value.

 

WOW, thank you.  There are so many variables to comparing cost, and I was always only looking at the in-your-face costs.  So many of these that you are talking about I would not have factored.

 

I personally really resonate on Viking's retention rate of crew and the crew being happy making for happier guests.  This is one of our main reasons for sailing with Viking.  The Crew are amazing.

[Mich3554]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:21 AM, Pam said:

No, the opposite.  They were paid using nonrefundable, and Viking has changed them to using refundable.

This is a better deal, not worse.  If the credit is not used by the end of the cruise, it’s refunded to them.  

Edited March 30 by Mich3554

[Mich3554]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:03 AM, Peregrina651 said:

 

No, Viking is making it such that at the end of the cruise more people will have non-refundable left in their account, that Viking will not have to return to guests at the end of the cruise.  

We had a LOT of $$ left in our account at the end of the 22-23 WC.  Other than some shopping, we shipped back a bag out of London and then since we were continuing on to NYC, Viking carried our OBC over until it ran out.  The balance left paid our alcohol tab and our gratuities for 2/3 of the separate cruises it took to get us to NYC.  

[deec]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:53 PM, SantaFe1 said:

 

 

I think many who travel with Viking are long past thinking of cruises as vacations, although they may have a budget.  Once retired, we just travel, hopefully not at peak times.  Do we have a budget, sure, but in retirement, we have determined what is most important to us.  It is traveling. We have 8 VO cruises under our belts, with three more and a river trip coming up.  Viking must be doing something right.  

SantaFe,  I am sure I have asked you already but can't remember your answer...When are you doing British Isle? 

[SantaFe1]

11 minutes ago, deec said:

SantaFe,  I am sure I have asked you already but can't remember your answer...When are you doing British Isle? 

 

12 minutes ago, deec said:

SantaFe,  I am sure I have asked you already but can't remember your answer...When are you doing British Isle? 

Hi Dee.  We are a week behind you, arriving in London May 6 and embarking the 9th.  

[BaileyMJ]

I have 3 cruise lines that I consistently book Regent Viking & Silverseas. I book based on itinerary and price. I love Viking because of the following:

 

1)  I have never encountered a chair hog on a Viking Ship

2)  Viking had the best Thermal Spa no extra charge opposed to SS which charges or Regent that have small sauna

3)  Viking has World Cafe - dinner option so you don’t have to dress up

4)  I love the heated bathroom floors

 

Think you should try different cruise lines and figure out what you like and what works for you.

[CDNPolar]

11 hours ago, BaileyMJ said:

1)  I have never encountered a chair hog on a Viking Ship

 

 

Love this reason.  We have never experienced a time on Viking personally where we could not get a chair at the pool, or on deck.  Now we may not get a chair looking out the side windows at the pool, but there is always a chair.

 

The only time on Viking that can be a challenge getting a chair is in the Winter Garden for Tea at 4:00pm if you are not early enough.

[CCWineLover]

5 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

Love this reason.  We have never experienced a time on Viking personally where we could not get a chair at the pool, or on deck.  Now we may not get a chair looking out the side windows at the pool, but there is always a chair.

 

The only time on Viking that can be a challenge getting a chair is in the Winter Garden for Tea at 4:00pm if you are not early enough.

You are right!  Always get a chair somewhere.

The chairs/lounges by the windows however, on our past cruises, were "booked" really early (like before breakfast), by a newer crowd that "reserves" them by putting towels and personal items on them, and then don't show up til much later if at all.  Like placeholders just in case they want to come by.   I see this behavior increasing over the past years since COVID.

[CDNPolar]

Just now, CCWineLover said:

You are right!  Always get a chair somewhere.

The chairs/lounges by the windows however, on our past cruises, were "booked" really early (like before breakfast), by a newer crowd that "reserves" them by putting towels and personal items on them, and then don't show up til much later if at all.  Like placeholders just in case they want to come by.   I see this behavior increasing over the past years since COVID.

 

Yes, I did not want to bring that up, but I have walked past these chairs many times and only 50% are occupied and the rest are waiting for someone to lounge...  I have heard people say that I was in the chair early and went to lunch and wanted the chair after lunch...  I don't personally thing that is fair.  If you are gone longer than to go to the bathroom, then relinquish the chair.

 

We are doing our first TA cruise this October and I hope that this is not the case with these chairs but if it is, I will quietly go to the open deck and find a wind resistant place, or go back to my cabin and sit in my window there.

[Jim Avery]

chair hogs are indeed alive and well on Viking.

[WanderingBrit]

22 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

chair hogs are indeed alive and well on Viking.

On Virgin they have instructed staff to move belongings to lost & found if a chair is unoccupied for more than 40 minutes - and passengers are frequently reminded of this prior to embarkation.