If we don't leave the ship....

[daisy-mae]

I think I know the answer, but will ask anyway, in case someone has some insight.

 

We are about to apply for our Nexus card renewal and must list all of the countries we have visited in the past 5 years. On a recent cruise we did not disembark in Jamaica. However, since the cruise manifest must list the names of all passengers as well as their passport information, are we deemed to have entered the country? And would CBSA have a record of our visit? We want to be as accurate as possible to avoid jeopardizing our renewal.

[lx200gps]

23 minutes ago, daisy-mae said:

I think I know the answer, but will ask anyway, in case someone has some insight.

 

We are about to apply for our Nexus card renewal and must list all of the countries we have visited in the past 5 years. On a recent cruise we did not disembark in Jamaica. However, since the cruise manifest must list the names of all passengers as well as their passport information, are we deemed to have entered the country? And would CBSA have a record of our visit? We want to be as accurate as possible to avoid jeopardizing our renewal.

Even if you stayed on the ship when it visited Jamaica, you visited Jamaica. Better list it on the application. We did.

[canadianbear]

We also listed all our ports even if we didn’t get off the ship.  

[Fouremco]

46 minutes ago, daisy-mae said:

And would CBSA have a record of our visit?

It's highly unlikely that CBSA would have any record of your visit, but it is entirely possible that US CBP has a record. Assuming that your cruise started and/or finished in the US, it would have received the passenger manifest, although I don't know how long they would retain it. Also, while both US and Canadian indices are checked, I don't know whether or not passenger manifests are included in the checks. So, there is a (very) slim chance that your visit to Jamaica might be revealed. As you did visit, albeit without going ashore, include it in the list of visited countries.

[Tango99]

2 hours ago, daisy-mae said:

I think I know the answer, but will ask anyway, in case someone has some insight.

 

We are about to apply for our Nexus card renewal and must list all of the countries we have visited in the past 5 years. On a recent cruise we did not disembark in Jamaica. However, since the cruise manifest must list the names of all passengers as well as their passport information, are we deemed to have entered the country? And would CBSA have a record of our visit? We want to be as accurate as possible to avoid jeopardizing our renewal.

I just got my renewal and I recall the form included details of all destinations in the last 5 years. Tedious process but worth the effort. 

[If only]

I know that when my DH applied for his renewal there were a couple of countries that we had forgotten about, it was not stamped on our passports but  he did have to have an interview with US CPB. 

[dawnvip]

I've been reading through the Nexus FAQ's for other reasons and recalled seeing specific question about cruises. Here's the question and answer:

 

I was on a cruise, and we stopped at the port but did not go through customs. Do I need to list that country?

You should include all countries visited other than Canada or Mexico. 

[CDNPolar]

13 hours ago, Fouremco said:

It's highly unlikely that CBSA would have any record of your visit, but it is entirely possible that US CBP has a record. Assuming that your cruise started and/or finished in the US, it would have received the passenger manifest, although I don't know how long they would retain it. Also, while both US and Canadian indices are checked, I don't know whether or not passenger manifests are included in the checks. So, there is a (very) slim chance that your visit to Jamaica might be revealed. As you did visit, albeit without going ashore, include it in the list of visited countries.

 

In my interview for renewal, the US CBP questioned me about several ports that were cruise ship ports in the APAC region.  I was surprised that they had all this information, because they were all cruise ship ports, but they did.

 

My understanding is that disembark or not, you visited that country.

[daisy-mae]

Thanks for all the answers. One more wrinkle - the ship did not call at Half Moon Cay because of high winds. However, we were within the 12 mile limit for the Bahamas where we stopped for part of the morning while the captain weighed our options. Did we, technically, visit the Bahamas?

[Ex-Airbalancer]

42 minutes ago, daisy-mae said:

Thanks for all the answers. One more wrinkle - the ship did not call at Half Moon Cay because of high winds. However, we were within the 12 mile limit for the Bahamas where we stopped for part of the morning while the captain weighed our options. Did we, technically, visit the Bahamas?

It would be the same thing as flying over a country, you are in its airspace 

would you count that 🤔

I wouldn’t 

[daisy-mae]

8 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

It would be the same thing as flying over a country, you are in its airspace 

would you count that 🤔

I wouldn’t 

Except that you are not hovering in the air over the country.

 

If a stop at the Cay was scheduled, and a manifest was registered (even if the island technically belongs to the cruise line) then the intention was to drop anchor (which is what was done) and arrive on land by tender.

[Fouremco]

The right of "innocent passage" through the territorial seas of a country is granted to ships of all states under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). This means that ships can traverse the territorial waters of a coastal state without entering its internal waters or calling at a port facility, as long as the passage is "innocent" and not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal state. Passage through its territorial waters does not constitute a visit to the coastal state.

 

On the other hand, while there is a right of innocent passage through territorial waters, no such right exists for internal waters, where the coastal state has full sovereignty. Passage through the internal waters constitutes a visit to that country.

 

If you were to draw a line connecting all of the outermost islands constituting the Bahamian Archipelago, all waters lying within form the internal waters of the Bahamas. Assuming that your ship entered these waters, even though you never tendered to HMC, you are considered to have visited the Bahamas.

 

NEXUS doesn't have its own definition of what constitutes a "visit", but when in doubt, I'd always recommend including a country. It certainly won't hurt your application, and avoids any possible need to justify why you failed to include a country.
 

[daisy-mae]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

Assuming that your ship entered these waters, even though you never tendered to HMC, you are considered to have visited the Bahamas.

 

NEXUS doesn't have its own definition of what constitutes a "visit", but when in doubt, I'd always recommend including a country. It certainly won't hurt your application, and avoids any possible need to justify why you failed to include a country.
 

@Fouremco - thanks for confirming my assumption. As it turns out, the point is moot since I had already listed the Bahamas because of an earlier cruise (just found out when finalizing the application).

 

One more query - the following wording gave me pause:

 

" Do not include countries you spent less than 24 hours in for a stopover to continue to your destination."

 

I assume this would apply to air travel. However, I can't help but wonder if each port of call could be considered a stopover or does a cruise consist of multiple destinations? (Just passing time on a rainy day...)

[Fouremco]

3 minutes ago, daisy-mae said:

I assume this would apply to air travel. However, I can't help but wonder if each port of call could be considered a stopover or does a cruise consist of multiple destinations?

Like you, I assume this applies to air travel, not cruises. There are very, very countries that a cruiser visits for over 24 hours.

 

Rainy day in a rainy week... But the lawn is greening up nicely. 😇 

[Ex-Airbalancer]

19 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Like you, I assume this applies to air travel, not cruises. There are very, very countries that a cruiser visits for over 24 hours.

 

Rainy day in a rainy week... But the lawn is greening up nicely. 😇 

I would consider it to include cruise if your port stop  is less than 24 hours 

on a TA the ship is stoping for supplies as it continues to its final destination 

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I would consider it to include cruise if your port stop  is less than 24 hours 

on a TA the ship is stoping for supplies as it continues to its final destination 

On a TA or any other cruise, a port stop is an integral part of your itinerary. That's very different than the situation when a passenger lands in a foreign country while in transit and then continues on to a final destination. 

 

For a cruise, it's not the destination, it's the journey.

[chengkp75]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:49 PM, Fouremco said:

The right of "innocent passage" through the territorial seas of a country is granted to ships of all states under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

Innocent passage also has defined actions that are not allowed, and anchoring is one of them.  So, if the ship anchors within territorial waters, it is no longer on "innocent passage".