Carnival Cruise Line to Absorb P&O Australia in 2025

[CruiseAdict218]

This is a very interesting development. Thoughts?

 

Carnival Corporation today announced that in March 2025, the company will sunset the P&O Cruises Australia brand and fold the Australia operations into Carnival Cruise Line, according to a press release.

 

The Pacific Encounter and Pacific Adventure ships will be rebranded and operated by Carnival Cruise Line brand while the Pacific Explorer will exit the fleet in February of 2025, the company said.

 

This change is the latest in a series of what Carnival said were strategic moves designed to increase guest capacity for Carnival Cruise Line, the company’s flagship brand and the highest-returning brand in Carnival Corporation’s global portfolio, the company said.

This will result in the addition of eight new ships to Carnival Cruise Line’s fleet since 2021, including the shift of three vessels from sister brand Costa Cruises. In addition, the company recently placed its first new ship order in half a decade for two new Excel-class cruise ships to join Carnival Cruise Line in 2027 and 2028.

 

“Despite increasing Carnival Cruise Line’s capacity by almost 25% since 2019 including transferring three ships from Costa Cruises, guest demand remains incredibly strong so we’re leveraging our scale in an even more meaningful way by absorbing an entire brand into the world’s most popular cruise line,” said Josh Weinstein, chief executive officer of Carnival Corporation.

“In 2019, Carnival Cruise Line was 29% of our total capacity, and when we complete this move early next year, Carnival Cruise Line – our highest-returning brand – will make up approximately 35% of our total global capacity. While our company’s overall growth between 2019 – 2028 is projected to be less than 2% (CAGR), the majority will be for Carnival Cruise Line, which will grow by approximately 50% over that time period.”

 

In addition to further optimizing the composition of Carnival Corporation’s global brand portfolio, the realignment will strengthen the company’s performance in the South Pacific through numerous operational efficiencies, the company said in a statement.

 

“P&O Cruises Australia is a storied brand with an amazing team, and we are extremely proud of everything we have accomplished together in Australia and the broader region,” said Weinstein. “However, given the strategic reality of the South Pacific’s small population and significantly higher operating and regulatory costs, we’re adjusting our approach to give us the efficiencies we need to continue delivering an incredible cruise experience year-round to our guests in the region. Carnival Corporation & plc remains committed to Australia and we will continue to be the largest cruise operator in the region with 19 ships calling on 78 destinations and representing almost 60% of the market.”

For P&O Australia, current itineraries will operate business as usual, and guests will be notified in the coming days of any changes to future bookings as a result of this announcement.

 

When the transition is complete next year, Carnival Cruise Line will have four ships in the market, including Sydney-based Carnival Splendor and Carnival Luminosa sailing seasonally from Brisbane, in addition to their new sister ships Encounter and Adventure.

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/06/carnival-cruise-line-to-absorb-po-australia-in-2025/

[CruiseAdict218]

https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/carnival-corporation-strategically-align-portfolio-and-absorb-po

[jsglow]

Actually quite exciting. For reference, the two ships Carnival is getting are the former Golden Princess and Star Princess; Grand Class ships that were built in 2000-01. I've personally sailed Golden to Alaska and she's a spectacular long distance cruiser. I particularly loved the high mounted aft bar/nightclub where you can oversee the entire length of the ship plus all the surrounding beauty of the nearby scenery as you pass by. It was truly the perfect  Alaska platform. There were mods made to her upon transfer to P&O Aus. back about 2019 to make her a tad more 'family friendly' (I think water slides and some family staterooms were added) but she is a wonderful ship approximating 109k tons for 2600 passengers. Star Princess is her slightly younger sister. 

[CruiseAdict218]

22 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Actually quite exciting. For reference, the two ships Carnival is getting are the former Golden Princess and Star Princess; Grand Class ships that were built in 2000-01. I've personally sailed Golden to Alaska and she's a spectacular long distance cruiser. I particularly loved the high mounted aft bar/nightclub where you can oversee the entire length of the ship plus all the surrounding beauty of the nearby scenery as you pass by. It was truly the perfect  Alaska platform. There were mods made to her upon transfer to P&O Aus. back about 2019 to make her a tad more 'family friendly' (I think water slides and some family staterooms were added) but she is a wonderful ship approximating 109k tons for 2600 passengers. Star Princess is her slightly younger sister. 

I sailed on Golden as well to Alaska, she was one of my favorite ships. It’s going to be interesting to see her and her sister turned into Carnival ships. 

[jimbo5544]

26 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Actually quite exciting. For reference, the two ships Carnival is getting are the former Golden Princess and Star Princess; Grand Class ships that were built in 2000-01. I've personally sailed Golden to Alaska and she's a spectacular long distance cruiser. I particularly loved the high mounted aft bar/nightclub where you can oversee the entire length of the ship plus all the surrounding beauty of the nearby scenery as you pass by. It was truly the perfect  Alaska platform. There were mods made to her upon transfer to P&O Aus. back about 2019 to make her a tad more 'family friendly' (I think water slides and some family staterooms were added) but she is a wonderful ship approximating 109k tons for 2600 passengers. Star Princess is her slightly younger sister. 

Very very interesting.

[natefish95]

Very excited for this announcement and can't wait to get more details about where the ships will be going. They're being transferred to Carnival to turn a profit, so I doubt they'll keep all 4 ships doing Australia. I hope they bring at least one of them stateside and/or move Luminosa to the states full-time. 

[jsglow]

1 hour ago, natefish95 said:

Very excited for this announcement and can't wait to get more details about where the ships will be going. They're being transferred to Carnival to turn a profit, so I doubt they'll keep all 4 ships doing Australia. I hope they bring at least one of them stateside and/or move Luminosa to the states full-time. 

So they'll certainly sail all their remaining scheduled voyages. And perhaps Australia supports 4 ships (one seasonally). But what I'm interested in is whether one or both get re-deployed as the new Excels come on line in just a few short years. Remember the discussion of Mardi Gras becoming the Miami 5/5/4 boat? Well at the bottom of that deck Conquest eventually becomes re-deployable, right? And frankly Conquest is a better 'family ship' than a slightly converted Princess ship that's honestly better designed for the 60+ crowd. Perhaps she goes to Australia to sail the Sydney 7 nighter.

 

Here's another thing. It's not just P&O Australia. They just happen to be the smallest.  I think this is a 'test case' for collapsing some of the other comparable worldwide brands under the Carnival tent lowering back-room costs while doing it. I've long thought Costa was next. I promise you that if Venezia and Firenze are highly successful, the rest of that Costa fleet will be wearing Carnival colors in 5 years. Now Princess, HAL, Cunard, Seaborn? No chance. Different product and market.

 

Why is this good? Because Carnival gets to expand its offerings while increasing efficiency. Sure, all the standard stuff like always. But more in Europe; more in  Australia, more exotic Journeys (although maybe not Greenland!), maybe even a highly segmented World. You remember JH asked everyone to chime in on all that. I sincerely hope it works. I hope they can continue to provide a retired guy like me with interesting and unusual itineraries. They know they won't get my wife and I aboard 50+ days a year going to Nassau and Amber Cove. At least they should.

Edited June 4 by jsglow

[tidecat]

1 hour ago, natefish95 said:

Very excited for this announcement and can't wait to get more details about where the ships will be going. They're being transferred to Carnival to turn a profit, so I doubt they'll keep all 4 ships doing Australia. I hope they bring at least one of them stateside and/or move Luminosa to the states full-time. 

I question whether there's much more left on the table in the US market given that operators are offering discounts this summer given the ongoing issues in the Red Sea:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cruise-operators-offer-summer-discounts-051026361.html

 

I think this move may be more about cost savings, especially since most of the cruising public in AU/NZ will be aware of the Carnival/P&O relationship. Now Carnival only has to run one advertising campaign in the market, consolidate customer service departments, etc.

 

Both Carnival and Royal Caribbean should be at 31 ships by 2028. Carnival might actually be the largest cruise line in the world again, at least intermittently over the next 4.5 years.

[natefish95]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

I question whether there's much more left on the table in the US market given that operators are offering discounts this summer given the ongoing issues in the Red Sea:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cruise-operators-offer-summer-discounts-051026361.html

 

I think this move may be more about cost savings, especially since most of the cruising public in AU/NZ will be aware of the Carnival/P&O relationship. Now Carnival only has to run one advertising campaign in the market, consolidate customer service departments, etc.

 

Both Carnival and Royal Caribbean should be at 31 ships by 2028. Carnival might actually be the largest cruise line in the world again, at least intermittently over the next 4.5 years.

I'm just a random person on the internet and far from a business analyst, but I think demand in North America is extremely strong. To keep people buying, they have to mix it up, both onboard and itineraries. I think bringing Venezia and Firenze over was a great idea because you get new, modern ships with unique offerings. I booked a Venezia cruise very soon after the release because it offered something new while still being "Carnival". 

 

If I was Carnival, I would bring one ship over to North America so people can try out a new ship class. They'll see the sister ship down under with a hopefully good itinerary and be enticed to book it. I booked a Luminosa cruise out of Brisbane for next year because I love the Spirit class and the itinerary is incredible. I'm not flying 17 hours to take a short cruise! A lot of opportunities with these new ships. 

[SinbadThePorter]

2 hours ago, tidecat said:

Now Carnival only has to run one advertising campaign in the market, consolidate customer service departments, etc.

 

P&O Australia locally have by far the bigger brand presence. Carnival Corp will be losing a great deal of brand value by dropping the P&O name. It will take a considerable ad campaign to make up for that.

[Haoie]

This is the main discussion on the AU/NZ boards.

 

Most people are a bit skeptical of how this'll work out.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic, since my last P&O cruise was pretty lackluster. Going on Splendor next month and will see how it goes.

[jimbo5544]

6 hours ago, natefish95 said:

I'm just a random person on the internet and far from a business analyst, but I think demand in North America is extremely strong. To keep people buying, they have to mix it up, both onboard and itineraries. I think bringing Venezia and Firenze over was a great idea because you get new, modern ships with unique offerings. I booked a Venezia cruise very soon after the release because it offered something new while still being "Carnival". 

 

If I was Carnival, I would bring one ship over to North America so people can try out a new ship class. They'll see the sister ship down under with a hopefully good itinerary and be enticed to book it. I booked a Luminosa cruise out of Brisbane for next year because I love the Spirit class and the itinerary is incredible. I'm not flying 17 hours to take a short cruise! A lot of opportunities with these new ships. 

You maybe (and hopefully right) on to something.  All of this gives me good pause waiting on other worldly opportunities to sail the 7 seas on a ship under the Carnival umbrella.  I will do some digging into these two ships.

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, Haoie said:

This is the main discussion on the AU/NZ boards.

 

Most people are a bit skeptical of how this'll work out.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic, since my last P&O cruise was pretty lackluster. Going on Splendor next month and will see how it goes.

I would be interested in your thoughts on the two ships.

[jsglow]

So reading the Princess thread I'm not surprised about the skepticism. They are losing their 90 year old 'local' brand. But few cruise lines successfully survive with 3 ships. And we don't mean to clue you Aussies in, but your market IS an afterthought on the world cruising stage.

 

So the one thing that struck me was the wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding loyalty points. I had not known that P&O Aus. got Princess credit. And now if that credit is going to convert to Carnival VIFP points, they simply can't have P&O folks with greater rights that the rest of Carnival. I now strongly believe that some corporate wide cross-over is going to be introduced this Fall. 

[jimbo5544]

13 minutes ago, jsglow said:

So reading the Princess thread I'm not surprised about the skepticism. They are losing their 90 year old 'local' brand. But few cruise lines successfully survive with 3 ships. And we don't mean to clue you Aussies in, but your market IS an afterthought on the world cruising stage.

 

So the one thing that struck me was the wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding loyalty points. I had not known that P&O Aus. got Princess credit. And now if that credit is going to convert to Carnival VIFP points, they simply can't have P&O folks with greater rights that the rest of Carnival. I now strongly believe that some corporate wide cross-over is going to be introduced this Fall. 

I cannot argue with your logic, but the assimilation of the loyalty plans into one, scares the heck out of me.

[Essiesmom]

19 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I cannot argue with your logic, but the assimilation of the loyalty plans into one, scares the heck out of me.

P&O and Princess were pretty much one line when they were absorbed by Carnival..which incidentally was announced while I was sailing on the inaugural cruise of Star Princess in 2002.  Singapore to LA.  Loyalty points were shared by the two lines.  In fact, it has only been in the last few years that that sharing ceased, at least with P&O-UK.

  And though they may be a ‘new’ class of ship within the Carnival brand, ships of that class still sail from North America.  Caribbean Princess is the Golden and Star with another deck added, and has the Skywalkers lounge - the shopping cart handle - off the back.  Ruby, Emerald, and Crown are the same ship without the handle.  
  It’s too bad the Pacific Explorer (former Dawn Princess) is a 1997 build.  She is the right size to fit into the Fantasy class ports, and was built with balconies, rather than having them tacked on.  EM

Edited June 4 by Essiesmom

[jimbo5544]

6 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

P&O and Princess were pretty much one line when they were absorbed by Carnival..which incidentally was announced while I was sailing on the inaugural cruise of Star Princess in 2002.  Singapore to LA.  Loyalty points were shared by the two lines.  In fact, it has only been in the last few years that that sharing ceased, at least with P&O-UK.

  And though they may be a ‘new’ class of ship within the Carnival brand, ships of that class still sail from North America.  Caribbean Princess is the Golden and Star with another deck added, and has the Skywalkers lounge - the shopping cart handle - off the back.  Ruby, Emerald, and Crown are the same ship without the handle.  
  It’s too bad the Pacific Explorer (former Dawn Princess) is a 1997 build.  She is the right size to fit into the Fantasy class ports, and was built with balconies, rather than having them tacked on.  EM

It will be interesting, and they DO have some options that can be a great add to both the US market (without know the heights and whether they can help in some of the challenges for home ports with low bridge clearance issues) and ALSO in the potential for outside the US (and Aussie) cruises.  We shall see.

[jimbo5544]

10 hours ago, tidecat said:

I question whether there's much more left on the table in the US market given that operators are offering discounts this summer given the ongoing issues in the Red Sea:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cruise-operators-offer-summer-discounts-051026361.html

 

I think this move may be more about cost savings, especially since most of the cruising public in AU/NZ will be aware of the Carnival/P&O relationship. Now Carnival only has to run one advertising campaign in the market, consolidate customer service departments, etc.

 

Both Carnival and Royal Caribbean should be at 31 ships by 2028. Carnival might actually be the largest cruise line in the world again, at least intermittently over the next 4.5 years.

Well, that may be an overall generic view of cruising, but last I knew, CCL is not heavy in sailings in the Red Sea area.  According to the last earnings call, bookings for the caribbean were very strong.

[arxcards]

57 minutes ago, jsglow said:

So reading the Princess thread I'm not surprised about the skepticism. They are losing their 90 year old 'local' brand. But few cruise lines successfully survive with 3 ships. And we don't mean to clue you Aussies in, but your market IS an afterthought on the world cruising stage.

 

So the one thing that struck me was the wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding loyalty points. I had not known that P&O Aus. got Princess credit. And now if that credit is going to convert to Carnival VIFP points, they simply can't have P&O folks with greater rights that the rest of Carnival. I now strongly believe that some corporate wide cross-over is going to be introduced this Fall. 

P&O Australia had no loyalty plan.

The nights/cruises on P&O Australia counted to Princess Captains circle because they were joined at the hip because of Sitmar - something that would give you some extra reading credits. 

- Even as late as 2006, Pacific Princess spent 6 months cruising for Princess, 6 months with P&O Australia.

- Sea Princess swapped roles with P&O UK Oceana from time to time.

- Princess ships had a P&O logo painted on them

- In generic terms, Princess was the American adaption of P&O UK.

 

The decision to absorb P&O Australia into Carnival could also mean taking on some of their legacy. They need to wave a carrot, as a lot of P&O AU cruisers loathe Carnival, and todays decision has reinforced that.

 

Whether they grandfather P&O Australia cruise history into VIFP instead of Princess CC, it should make little difference to y'all. After all, it is just 3 ships from the cruising backwater and hardly worth a 2nd thought. It is important to Carnival that they don't leave too much space for Royal to fill a void.

 

Edited June 4 by arxcards

[jimbo5544]

39 minutes ago, arxcards said:

P&O Australia had no loyalty plan.

The nights/cruises on P&O Australia counted to Princess Captains circle because they were joined at the hip because of Sitmar - something that would give you some extra reading credits. 

- Even as late as 2006, Pacific Princess spent 6 months cruising for Princess, 6 months with P&O Australia.

- Sea Princess swapped roles with P&O UK Oceana from time to time.

- Princess ships had a P&O logo painted on them

- In generic terms, Princess was the American adaption of P&O UK.

 

The decision to absorb P&O Australia into Carnival could also mean taking on some of their legacy. They need to wave a carrot, as a lot of P&O AU cruisers loathe Carnival, and todays decision has reinforced that.

 

Whether they grandfather P&O Australia cruise history into VIFP instead of Princess CC, it should make little difference to y'all. After all, it is just 3 ships from the cruising backwater and hardly worth a 2nd thought. It is important to Carnival that they don't leave too much space for Royal to fill a void.

 

I did a quick scan on their pages here, and your assessment seems to ring true on the “loathe”.  At the end of the day, they can either suck it up or move the ships to something more profitable.  Not sure how big a carrot would make a difference.  Two ships worth of semi un happy cruisers to the parent line is something to think about…..for about 10 minutes and then move on.

[Beezo]

Not surprised they are folding P&O Australia, but am surprised they are folding into Carnival brand.  I would've thought it would have folded into P&O UK as a single brand.  Also odd given Carnival Cruise Line does not operate that class in the fleet, as opposed to the Costa transfers.

 

I think this could easily be the beginning of additional consolidation... It remains interesting that the brands without any orders are HAL, Aida, Costa, Cunard, Seabourn and P&O.

 

Princess - Global Up-market (could absorb P&O UK)

Carnival - Global Mass-market (absorbing P&O AU)

 

There were rumors last year that Carnival was exploring the sale of Seabourn & Cunard.

 

Brian

 

[Beezo]

Also - with the addition of these two ships to the Carnival brand, it brings them back to a "tie" in quantity of ships by with Royal Caribbean - both with 31 ships in 2028.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, Beezo said:

Not surprised they are folding P&O Australia, but am surprised they are folding into Carnival brand.  I would've thought it would have folded into P&O UK as a single brand.  Also odd given Carnival Cruise Line does not operate that class in the fleet, as opposed to the Costa transfers.

 

I think this could easily be the beginning of additional consolidation... It remains interesting that the brands without any orders are HAL, Aida, Costa, Cunard, Seabourn and P&O.

 

Princess - Global Up-market (could absorb P&O UK)

Carnival - Global Mass-market (absorbing P&O AU)

 

There were rumors last year that Carnival was exploring the sale of Seabourn & Cunard.

 

Brian

 

the demand for the ships is clearly on the CCL side.  I would not be surprised to see more of this.

[tidecat]

16 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

the demand for the ships is clearly on the CCL side.  I would not be surprised to see more of this.

It would be easier to do this with P&O UK as it serves an English-speaking market. It also would keep them from being confused with P&O Ferries (which was a source of some irritation when Ferries ran afoul of British labor laws).

 

Doing this with AIDA and Costa may be more cumbersome because of the language and cultural differences.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

Wonder how they will turn them into Carnival ships and how the funnels will be retrofitted.