Alaska Ports are being invaded

[donaldsc]

2 hours ago, wolfie11 said:

I have to disagree with Don on the Alaska ferry system.  Our current governor has been gutting the ferry system over the last few years and service has become sporadic and somewhat unreliable.  Ferry terminal are located many miles out of some towns and the ferries sail with the tides, so you may find yourself stranded at 3am outside a closed ferry terminal in the middle of nowhere.  If you bring a car with you, you’re fine.  You can just drive to town.  I would also point out that in these small towns, lodging can be difficult to come by if you plan staying for a few days.  If you really want to get out in the wilderness, go on an expedition ship such as National Geographic, Uncruise, or Hurtigruten.

 

I stand corrected.  We used the ferry a number of years ago so my info was out of date.  Also we did have a car.  I totally agree that doing AK on an expedition cruise is the only way to go.  

 

DON

[Billthekid]

As the OP I would like to add we talked with several passengers from the other 4-5-6 ships that were docked with us and they all had about the same story.  Their ships were all filled to capacity.  There were lines all over their ships for various events.  

We contracted the virus the last day and had to isolate for one day in Seattle.  I tried to find a hotel near Seatac for the night and we visited six hotels and everyone was sold out with cruise passengers.  The Alaska cruise business indicates demand is overwhelming and there will be more Megaships to meet that demand.  In our view, we have done our last cruise to Alaska.  It is my military training.  No more hurry up and wait.  Been there, did that.

[wolfie11]

3 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Yes, these ports are overcrowded but I have very little sympathy for people who just want to sit in the Red Dog and not actually get away from the fake port in order to see Alaska. 

Juneau is not a fake port.  It’s the second or third largest city in Alaska with lots of nice people living there. You can rent a car or walk half a mile to get away from the cruise ship compound in downtown and find that out.  

[Billthekid]

Just now, wolfie11 said:

Juneau is not a fake port.  It’s the second or third largest city in Alaska with lots of nice people living there. You can rent a car or walk half a mile to get away from the cruise ship compound in downtown and find that out.  

Isn't walmart or costco a half mile walk from the compound?😄

[Cruzaholic41]

29 minutes ago, wolfie11 said:

Juneau is not a fake port.  It’s the second or third largest city in Alaska with lots of nice people living there. You can rent a car or walk half a mile to get away from the cruise ship compound in downtown and find that out.  

Context is key here. I’m talking about the port - the dock area with Red Dog and Diamonds International. You know, the place that totally shuts down when the ships leave. Yes, totally fake. 

[wolfie11]

6 minutes ago, Billthekid said:

Isn't walmart or costco a half mile walk from the compound?😄

Walmart closed down for lack of business and is now a U-Haul and storage place.  The Costco is out past the airport in the industrial area and the start of the trail to the Lemon Creek glacier.

Edited August 25 by wolfie11

[wolfie11]

16 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Context is key here. I’m talking about the port - the dock area with Red Dog and Diamonds International. You know, the place that totally shuts down when the ships leave. Yes, totally fake. 

Yes, I know the area the cruise lines bought up and took over and I remember what it was like before that happened.  In October that whole section of town will be boarded up and deserted.  The Red Dog is locally owned and is actually open all winter with cheap drinks and live bands for the locals.

 

By your standards though, most of the tours people go on are also fake.

Edited August 25 by wolfie11

[Aquahound]

Can't say I disagree with the OP.  I just spent 3 days in Juneau for work and I watched the ships come and go.  RCI sails 2 Quantum Class ships to AK, and HAL, Celebrity, Princess and NCL are all sailing their largest ship classes to AK.  Heck even Silversea's largest ship, Nova, was there.  Beautiful ship, I must say. 

 

 

[cruisingrob21]

Unfortunately, it takes two to tango (or more).  Disregarding the cruise line affiliated businesses like diamond intl, many of the small business make money in Alaska and are in business because of the cruise lines.  Although many of the local residents may bemoan the congestion and overtourism provided by the cruise lines, the revenue from those ships likely dwarfs the natural, "organic" tourism revenue to small businesses.  If the local governments were to impose limits, I'm fairly certain, some of these businesses would be forced to close up shop.  Before that happened, I think there would be a lot of complaining that limiting the cruise ships would be impacting businesses - businesses that has been established as a reaction to the high volumes of cruise passengers.  It took years to build this up, but taking it away from one season to the next could have impacts as well. Does anyone remember the news stories coming from alaska in 2020 and 2021 when ships were not existent or limited?  Businesses were struggling.

 

A year or two ago Juneau considered imposing a daily ship limit - I thought that was funny, since 5 Vista class ships by HAL is a much lighter load than 5 ships by NCL/Princess/RCCL.  It seems like their latest focus is to limit the passenger volume and have no calls on Saturdays - which again is sensible and might work in some ports that can spread out the ship calls, Juneau is pretty well max'ed out and cruise schedules for 2025 and some 2026 are on the books (with up to 5 ships visiting on saturdays). 

 

Alaska state govt could impose a limit to the number of "weekly slots" for various cruises of specific lines, similar to the program that the park service has for Glacier Bay in that only NCL, Princess, and HAL are allowed access.  But in that scenario, I think the cost of cruising to Alaska just gets more expensive and I think its highly unlikely that the state would want to get involved in such a matter - even though its right outside the capitol doors in Juneau.

 

 

[wolfie11]

2 hours ago, cruisingrob21 said:

Unfortunately, it takes two to tango (or more).  Disregarding the cruise line affiliated businesses like diamond intl, many of the small business make money in Alaska and are in business because of the cruise lines.  Although many of the local residents may bemoan the congestion and overtourism provided by the cruise lines, the revenue from those ships likely dwarfs the natural, "organic" tourism revenue to small businesses.  If the local governments were to impose limits, I'm fairly certain, some of these businesses would be forced to close up shop.  Before that happened, I think there would be a lot of complaining that limiting the cruise ships would be impacting businesses - businesses that has been established as a reaction to the high volumes of cruise passengers.  It took years to build this up, but taking it away from one season to the next could have impacts as well. Does anyone remember the news stories coming from alaska in 2020 and 2021 when ships were not existent or limited?  Businesses were struggling.

 

A year or two ago Juneau considered imposing a daily ship limit - I thought that was funny, since 5 Vista class ships by HAL is a much lighter load than 5 ships by NCL/Princess/RCCL.  It seems like their latest focus is to limit the passenger volume and have no calls on Saturdays - which again is sensible and might work in some ports that can spread out the ship calls, Juneau is pretty well max'ed out and cruise schedules for 2025 and some 2026 are on the books (with up to 5 ships visiting on saturdays). 

 

Alaska state govt could impose a limit to the number of "weekly slots" for various cruises of specific lines, similar to the program that the park service has for Glacier Bay in that only NCL, Princess, and HAL are allowed access.  But in that scenario, I think the cost of cruising to Alaska just gets more expensive and I think its highly unlikely that the state would want to get involved in such a matter - even though its right outside the capitol doors in Juneau.

 

 

The politicians get very generous donations from the cruise lines who also have a legion of lobbyists at their command.  The state will always act in the best interests of the cruise lines.  It was the state who put out all the press releases during COVID about how the towns were going to dry up and blow away if congress didn’t pass an exemption to the PVSA so ships could sail to Alaska without stopping in Canada.  Very few people that reside year-round in Alaska depend on cruise tourism for their livelihood.

[elcuchio24]

It's certainly a balancing act with smalltown ports. We've been dealing with this with Bar Harbor near my hometown in Maine. There is a sweet spot to both support local businesses with cruise $$ while not overburdening the area and locals. It comes down to setting a throttle on the number of ships at the local level, which I suspect you will see more of in Alaska and other places. 

[donaldsc]

On 8/24/2024 at 7:47 PM, Cruzaholic41 said:

Context is key here. I’m talking about the port - the dock area with Red Dog and Diamonds International. You know, the place that totally shuts down when the ships leave. Yes, totally fake. 

 

Funny shut down story here.  This occurred years ago on our AK driving trip before the state was overrun w big cruise ships.  We were in Juneau on a Sunday wandering around town.  Sunday is important here.  There were several interesting shops that we wanted to visit but we decided to wait until the cruise ship visitors left and the places were less crowded.  When we came back later everything was closed.  The shops probably closed the second the cruisers left.

 

Luckily for us we got to stay in Juneau for a couple of days to make our next ferry connection we we went back on Monday which was a normal open day for the shops.

 

DON

[cattman]

Ironically, our best trips to Alaska were during -and immediately after - the shutdown.. giving us the luxury of actually experiencing Summer in Southeastern Alaska the way it was before cruising was so popular.

 

During the shutdown, we flew to Ketchikan, ferry to Juneau then to Gustavus and the opening weekend at the Glacier Bay Lodge.. how wonderful to sit on the water in these ports and be able to look out an a vista unspoiled by cruise ships. We were having such a good time we missed our flight home - shucks, another day in a quiet Juneau.

 

Then we sailed on one of the first sailings of the Koningsdam post-Covid, few passengers, even fewer ships in ports.

 

After some 20+ sailings to Alaska these were the trips we will always hold close to our hearts. 

[cattman]

This is what I'm talking about.. Juneau without cruise ships

 

Juneau

Beach outside Juneau

Juneau

Mendenhall Glacier.. not a soul around!

Edited August 26 by cattman

[Over the Line]

Hoonah (Icy Straight Point) is much less traveled, and I thought it was great when there earlier this year.

 

[Billthekid]

Margerie Glacier, once one of the highlights of Glacier Bay has changed.  In 2015 the glacier looked like this:

The second picture is from this year.  Big contrast.  

[wolfie11]

21 hours ago, Billthekid said:

Margerie Glacier, once one of the highlights of Glacier Bay has changed.  In 2015 the glacier looked like this:

The second picture is from this year.  Big contrast.  

The first picture is of Hubbard Glacier not Margerie.

[Billthekid]

35 minutes ago, wolfie11 said:

The first picture is of Hubbard Glacier not Margerie.

My opps.  I thought it was small.  Now I believe we never went to Hubbard glacier on this cruise.

[wolfie11]

3 hours ago, Billthekid said:

My opps.  I thought it was small.  Now I believe we never went to Hubbard glacier on this cruise.

The second picture (Margerie) must have been taken in the last few weeks.  Margerie has been stable for over a hundred years, but has retreated considerably since 2019.  It started with an embayment on the right hand side and has retreated around 3/4 mile since then.  In the last few weeks, a new embayment is forming on the right side again as your photo shows.  I would expect if this process continues, Margerie will be out of the water in the next 10-20 years. The attached photo was taken two weeks ago and it looks like the embayment is increasing in size.

Edited August 28 by wolfie11

[wcook]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:09 PM, WriterOnDeck said:

HAL's 28-day Ultimate Alaska earlier this summer was refreshing for all the ports we visited as the only cruise ship. If you have the time, it's a great alternative to the 7-day milk runs.

If that’s the one YouTubers Pair-o-Dee-Jay were on, I feel like I was there with you. Great trip. And it was funny seeing the contrast between ports that get a handful of ships in a year vs the ports that have a handful of ships every day. 

[wcook]

On 8/23/2024 at 2:49 PM, 3rdGenCunarder said:

One of the problems with crowding in the "usual" ports is that there are so many 7-day R/T cruises. They can't get very far and back in that time, so they all go to Ketchikan and Juneau, probably Skagway, ISP (or Sitka), and a glacier or two. If I do another Alaska cruise, I will look for something longer that goes to more distant ports. 

The PVSA is part of the problem. Every cruise has to dock in Canada. There would be many more options if you could do Alaska-only cruises. 
 

Alaska’s congressional delegation was able to get a brief exception to the PVSA during Covid. They tried (and failed) to make the exception permanent. Maybe someday. 

[wcook]

On 8/24/2024 at 5:20 PM, Cruzaholic41 said:

Yes, these ports are overcrowded but I have very little sympathy for people who just want to sit in the Red Dog and not actually get away from the fake port in order to see Alaska. 

Speaking just for myself, and talking about tourism in general not just Alaska, but at some point the tacky tourist traps are just as “real” as anything else. 

Edited August 28 by wcook

[Thetideishigh2021]

21 minutes ago, wcook said:

The PVSA is part of the problem. Every cruise has to dock in Canada. There would be many more options if you could do Alaska-only cruises. 
 

Alaska’s congressional delegation was able to get a brief exception to the PVSA during Covid. They tried (and failed) to make the exception permanent. Maybe someday. 

Even if the PVSA is retracted it doesn’t mean cruise lines will skip Canadian ports (on both sides of the continent) as all provisions ie fresh food, alcohol etc on-boarded in Canadian ports is paid for in Canadian dollars,  a savings of around 30% off of paying in US dollars.  Also cruise surveys continuously rank Victoria and Quebec City very high.

[zqvol]

32 minutes ago, wcook said:

The PVSA is part of the problem. Every cruise has to dock in Canada. There would be many more options if you could do Alaska-only cruises. 
 

Alaska’s congressional delegation was able to get a brief exception to the PVSA during Covid. They tried (and failed) to make the exception permanent. Maybe someday. 

What more options do you think it would give? All I see is that some port stops might be a little longer. 

[wcook]

4 minutes ago, zqvol said:

What more options do you think it would give? All I see is that some port stops might be a little longer. 

No need to even go down to South East Alaska. Which opens up Anchorage-Anchorage, Valdez, Homer, Kodiak, Dutch Harbor etc.