Receive a response from email on brownie riot

[billco]

I don't think Princess did all that bad. It seems to me that the least intervention is the best way to prevent escalation. I think this could have been a real nasty affair if a hardball approach had been used.

[brn2crz]

After seeing this...And these following RCI videos...I have a huge new respect for these security folks,and what they must encounter on a regular basis..

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wq9Gk47EINo&mode=related&search=

 

 

Watch part one before part 2...Did not want to directly link to the video with the bad language

[Tina G]

I agree with the last two posters. Brownie riot? Obviously this was named by someone who did not experience the late '60s and early 70's. I thought Princess handled the situation with careful retraint. I'm sure that if it HAD escalated, we would have seen more action from ship personnel. Back in the "good old days" at the U. of Iowa, a stupid act of drunken vandalism :( was escalated into a major riot (I'm talking serious damage!) because police over-reacted! What was Princess supposed to do? Hit them with tazers and tear gas? I think they handled things appropriately. Now. as for those kids' parents ---:mad: .

[WCAB]

Spoiled, spoiled brats. Hope they look back twenty years from now and feel some regret. There are a lot of kids out there who are planning a future and know how to act in public, thank goodness.

 

Carol

[Cruisin' Chick]

Thought #1: A cruise line could create & issue different seapass card (color or design) for minors -- then bartenders could immediately see who can get drinks & who cannot -- birthdates are on passports -- so verification in advance of issuing cards would not be difficult. This system would NOT PREVENT (1) drinking in the cabin/balcony OR (2) over-21 buying several drinks & passing off one to an under-21.

This may had helped with the under-21. With the over 21 yr-olds, maybe the bartenders should watch for signs of intoxication.

 

Thought #3: Princess security is not like a police force!! Doubt there would have been enough security people to round up that group & shut them up.

 

Thought #4: If Princess security had moved in to shut them up, that in itself would probably have escalated the "riot". Sort of like trying to control/calm a pack of large dogs that are wildly-acting barking running......like stay clear to avoid being bit....

Maybe the security force and other crew members could have shown up with a clipboard and start writing down names/cabin numbers -- from the cabin cards. They don't even need to do everyone. If some of the kids noticed names are being taken, they may get a clue it's time to scram. If the kids ask why names are being written down, they can be told that whatever damages are noted may end up being charged to their account. Also, any parents of minors can then be notified.

 

Thought #5: Opening a room/bar & not serving any more drinks would have likely been the best idea to get that group corraled.

 

Thought #6: The camera person was jerking the camera all around as if being bumped/pushed -- notice how picture goes up-down-sideways -- which gives appearance of worse situation. Was he/she PURPOSELY making it look alot worse?

It sounds from the previous threads that this kid was boasting.

 

I admit I have not watched the whole thing so I may not have seen the worst parts. I quit after 5 minutes -- how long does it run?

 

I quit watching it after a while, too.

[joseph123]

Yep......I'll get real....a responsible child either wouldn't have been involved or asleep in their cabin at 3:00am. Passengers with child need to control them.....not Princess. A cruiseline is not responsible to see that passenger's children act civil aboard a ship...is that real enough for you???

 

Not quite real enough! With 3,000 + passengers on a ship, I expect to be safe and secure regardless of what type of parenting someone may or may not have received. Same goes with plane travel, all types of people travel- those who have been brought up properly as well as those who haven't. It is naive to think we live in a world where everyone is a good parent and all people have been brought up properly. Unfortunately there needs to be controls in place to control those who can't control themselves. Princess should have been more on the ball with this, and resolved the situation, no excuse for them to have subjected other passengers to this kind of behaviour.

[vmom]

I've read several posts blaming the parents. These kids seem older...more college age which leads me to wonder if their parents were even on board.

[caribbean dreams]

I've read several posts blaming the parents. These kids seem older...more college age which leads me to wonder if their parents were even on board.

 

They were NOT college students.

The kid that carried the camera around and made the video is 17 years old so i am assuming most of his friends were also in that same age bracket, so where were the parents or guardians and why did the staff not try to find them as the were probably sound asleep thinking their kids were doing the same thing in the next cabin.

[Cruisin Kay D]

Cruisin Chick -- I liked your response to my thought #4: the idea about taking names & cabin numbers....

You're right -- maybe bartenders ought to "cut off" anyone getting too drunk, no matter the age!!

[vozzie]

..

You're right -- maybe bartenders ought to "cut off" anyone getting too drunk, no matter the age!!

 

I don't know what the U.S. laws are, but in Australia it is an offence for bar staff to serve ANYONE they consider to be intoxicated.

 

Yes, I know, hard to enforce and what about our personal rights etc ... but in reality they only stop serving those who are causing trouble or annoying others.

 

It's just a nice law to have in your back pocket, for when you really need it.

[bbro]

I received a very nice personal letter in response to my email to Princess regarding the kids-gone-wild cruise:eek: Ms. Cahall made some points which I totally agree with. Princess can only do so much.....parents need to be responsible for the underage kids they bring on board. She assured me that measures have been taken....I quote "Please be assured that the safety and security of our passengers remains our first priority. As such actions have been taken by all on board staff, including Youth Security, in order to prevent such a situation from reoccurring".

I know their have been folks who have email or written letters to Princess and the response was not timely for them. But to tell you the true.....I didn't expect a response at all. So I'm please Ms. Cahall took the time to address my concerns......I also included my booking number so maybe that helped:D :D

I received my letter on Friday and it sounds like we got the exact same response. I'm glad I said something to them, I feel better addressing the issue with them directly rather than just complaining about it and doing nothing.

 

Now, I'm ready for my cruise in January on the Grand (my first Princess cruise) and I'll keep an eye out for any airborne brownies....

[BonnieSte]

I have seen the video and these "kids" do not look like they came with parents! Kids that come with parents aren't usually up at this hour nor allowed to drink!

 

What planet are you from? LOL Teens get away from their parents asap and start their partying!

 

I like cruising with Princess and have never had a problem. But watching this video it does not appear that Princess responded propely and "could" have gotten way out of hand. Hopefully, this was a lesson that they have learned from and will know how to better handle this if it ever happens again. Hopefully, it will never be allowed to get this far again!

 

I am not sure we watched the same video because the video I watched,I saw security trying very hard to subdue them. As a matter of fact, they were so upset that security was breaking them up that they kept saying that they would never cruise Princess again which I loved hearing.

[willysgrandma]

This is why we cruise between September and Thanksgiving.

[Jacqueline]

I watched all 25 long painful moments.

The points I agree with are these-

Once a situation gets out of control, there is no good way to "break it up". I really felt for those youth officers. This situation is way beyond their ability to control. And the worst offenders on the tape were not the under 18

I do think that there should have been more officers present. Given that these kids were not violent or destructive, just drunk and stupid the quiet presence of a dozen or so big guys with a few stripes on their epaulets would have quelled the disturbance.

While it did look like a frat party to me also, a cruise ship is not a frat house. This is the distinction. There were innumerable opportunities for people to be hurt. Had a few of the ringleaders been pulled aside by officers to be detained for a bit of questioning, I think things would have calmed down faster. If you were to watch carefully, it was a relatively small number of really loud and stupid people as opposed to the majority who were just doing nothing more than watching the mayhem (like the fellow making the tape).

[bdjam]

I really felt for those youth officers. This situation is way beyond their ability to control. And the worst offenders on the tape were not the under 18

I do think that there should have been more officers present. Given that these kids were not violent or destructive, just drunk and stupid the quiet presence of a dozen or so big guys with a few stripes on their epaulets would have quelled the disturbance.

Given the propensity for young adults to cruise, there needs to be some protocol in place so that when Youth Security finds itself overwhelmed, the real “guns” can be called in. Princess has highly trained security forces on board and a bunch of kids causing havoc could be quickly quelled...if there were procedures in place, there would be no reason for this to have gone on.

Of course, then would start the lawsuits.

[Pam in CA]

From reading the original 2 threads, and the exerpt from the "videographers" my space account... apparently the under 21 and over 16 contingent on the ship were incredibly irritated with the fact that ship's security would not let them enter the adult clubs in the evenings during the trip. He says that they did manage to 'sneak in' a few times, and that the over 21's were urging them to do so because the clubs were 'dead when we weren't there'... take that with a grain of salt.

 

Moving to the night of the 'riot' - apparently when the clubs closed down, they weren't quite ready to end their party. They took it to the atrium, where one of their members started to play the piano in the atrium. When told to stop, they proceeded to "pound and kick the piano" - then someone spotted a server with a tray of brownies (my best guess, cooked in the oven in the atrium and on it's way upstairs) which they then "took" from the employee and proceeded to throw at each other and all over the atrium.

 

I'm still not sure how they got them out of the atrium and up onto the deck, but somehow they did... where "we broke 2 tables and the 'riot' continued". This young man proclaimed this mass destruction to be the highlight of his trip. They were all quite proud of themselves. If you watch to the end, you can see their scoffing reactions to the threats that they could be arrested for their behavior - "yeah, right" and lots of eye rolling.

 

I'm not quite sure what everyone would have Princess do in this situation. Their security personnel are not the riot police and they aren't prepared to handle this. I know fully armed SWAT members who would think twice about wading in. I think they kept them corralled and let them burn down... and there really wasn't a whole lot more they could do. Short of wading thru and snatching your own up by the short-hairs, I'm not sure what any other parent could have done to defuse the situation either.

 

I think the part that disgusted me the most about the whole incident was their sense of entitlement... their total glee in being able to 'get away with' this destruction... their feeling that nothing and no one could stop their behavior. I stick to my original thought... it's scary!

TinaLee -- I agree with you completely. There is absolutely no excuse for this behavior anywhere -- it doesn't matter if it's a cruise ship or your local teen club. To me, the primary responsibility is the parents or the adult person in the cabin. I don't care how good your kid is or how good a parent you are. I hope they identify the people in the video and charge them clean-up and repair fees. At the least, parents or the responsible person should be notified of this behavior. A cruise ship is not a fraternity house or "party central." While Princess security was on the scene, I doubt they had a full shift on scene at 3AM.

[Jacqueline]

AHHH yes, BDJAM. I can just see the excited thread of people who would have felt "wronged". If it were a bunch of "bad guys" I am sure that the swat team would have been on them in an instant since this is what they train for.. But when it comes to "guests" I can just imagine the edited video that we would be seeing with the clean shaven kids in shirts and ties saying., blah blah... Its a PR problem either way and the senior officers took the easy way out.

It is interesting that the kids were WAITING to get into trouble (this was captured on the audio part of the video) ! The kids just kept pushing the boundaries and came up against NONE. This was just morally wrong, forget about liability and insurance companies. It also did a disservice to the guests with cabins adjacent to the ruckus.

Princess staff SAW what was happening and did very little.

Can you imagine if a kid had gone overboard ? Drunken adults do this a few times a year (putting together all the cruiselines). Picture this video and a half hour into it a "man overboard". Princess needs to have some common sense.

Another observation-They are not really used to doing sailings out of NY. Maybe they should talk to NCL. Dorothy, you are not in Kansas anymore...

[flamomo]

Unfortunately, Princess permits young people over 18 to cruise without parents or other supervision. Unlike most other cruiselines that do not allow unsupervised cruising to occur until over the age of 21.

That being the case, this type of thing might happen again, now that those who participated will go back home or to their colleges and boast about what they did and were allowed to get away with. Plus the publicity of that video on the internet. I'd hate to see an influx of young people sailing on Princess with the idea that they can do this too.

I believe Princess needs to set up contingency plans for dealing with this type of event, with the intention of intervening well before it gets to that stage. I also think the OP's suggestion re: color coded s&s cards for those under 21, to deter underage drinking, is a great idea. That way, the onus would not fall on the bartenders and bar servers to determine who is old enough to indulge. The card would stop their access to booze onboard. Alcohol purchased in port could be confiscated from underage cruisers to keep them from getting it onboard from an outside source. Their s&s card would serve as the identifier for the crew that screen what is brought onboard from the ports.The booze could be kept tll the morning of disembarkation, then returned to them. I realize it would be a bit of a hassle for the crew, but it would send a clear message to under-21 cruisers that drinking will not be permitted, as is stated in the Passage Contract.

[Jacqueline]

Stupidity knows no age. Look at that couple who went on their honeymoon on RCI and the guy is dead. His wife is passed out drunk in the hallway and carried back to her cabin by the staff, meanwhile. her husband is off cavorting with Russians he met in the casino. JNest thing you know there is blood on an awning he bounced off of onhis way to Davey Jones's locker.Wow and this was their HONEYMOON!!! Unbelievable except it is true...Over the years there have been other sad stories, all involving people over the age of 21.

Princess DOES have the kids cards marked if they are not of drinking age and they will not be served by the staff. But it is easy for one kid (or a few) who are of age, to get alcholic beverages for the gang. That is the primary way that the underaged kids get it. Not from the bartenders.

The upside to this tape is that Princess will have to give some hard thought to the issue. Its not gossip or hearsay.

[jkrav]

it sounds like a lot of u are really upset with this...but i dont get whats so terrible about it? Why are people even sleeping at 3 on the last night of the cruise? I think everything should stay open till the real early morning.

[TourneyKit]

I quit watching it after a while' date=' too.[/quote']

 

I've watched it several times through. As I have said before, I think Princess's responce to the situation was "about the best" you could do at the moment. I do however love your idea of:

 

Maybe the security force and other crew members could have shown up with a clipboard and start writing down names/cabin numbers -- from the cabin cards.

That would have separated the men from the boys in a hurry.

[TourneyKit]

 

They were NOT college students.

The kid that carried the camera around and made the video is 17 years old so i am assuming most of his friends were also

 

I think you are incorrect. Although the kid that took the video was 17, and there were several others that were under 21, it would appear to me that the vast majority were over 21. Many were walking around with drinks in their hands and several mention being asked their age. The one fellow states that he's 24. Most of them came from the disco that was closed at 3:00am where you had to be 21 to enter. If you stand outside of the incident and look at it from Princess's point of view, you could see the following facts. A.) They were out of control in the Disco, so Princess closed it early. B.) They took it to the Atrium, and Security followed them there. C.) They took it to the pool deck, and Security followed them there. Other than grabbing one by the neck and locking him up, which would or could have caused a real incident, Princess did what was necessary to contain the problem, after it occured. Twenty Five minutes from start to finish. No one injured, no law suits. I would have to give Princess a passing grade for this episode. Could they do better? Certainly, and I would venture to say that it has been discussed at all levels of management. Hopefully it will never happen again, however if it does, I would venture to say that Princess will be better prepared for it.

[bdjam]

I think you are incorrect. Although the kid that took the video was 17, and there were several others that were under 21, it would appear to me that the vast majority were over 21. Many were walking around with drinks in their hands and several mention being asked their age. The one fellow states that he's 24. Most of them came from the disco that was closed at 3:00am where you had to be 21 to enter. If you stand outside of the incident and look at it from Princess's point of view, you could see the following facts. A.) They were out of control in the Disco, so Princess closed it early. B.) They took it to the Atrium, and Security followed them there. C.) They took it to the pool deck, and Security followed them there. Other than grabbing one by the neck and locking him up, which would or could have caused a real incident, Princess did what was necessary to contain the problem, after it occured. Twenty Five minutes from start to finish. No one injured, no law suits. I would have to give Princess a passing grade for this episode. Could they do better? Certainly, and I would venture to say that it has been discussed at all levels of management. Hopefully it will never happen again, however if it does, I would venture to say that Princess will be better prepared for it.

Interesting analysis from a viewpoint none of us has really considered as well as you have. Thanks for that.

[HDK-Bowie]

After reading all the posts on this incident, I have to make a comment. In my cruise review of our August 16th Crown Princess cruise, my thread was hijacked by a 17 year old who shall remain nameless, who wrote a very long description of what happened leading up to the incident. According to him, his friends were 16-17 years old. When they were kicked out of some of the clubs (because they were underaged) they were angry that they were not served alcohol. They went to the Piazza and someone in their group began playing the grand piano - that person was asked to stop by security and some of the youth starting kicking the piano. This led to the "brownie riot" - his term. At some point they ascended to Deck 15 where he indicated a couple of tables were broken (I think you can see that in the video).

 

He bragged about their antics, which led to several postings by many CCers commenting on various aspects of his post and the behavior he bragged about. At one point in my thread, TourneyKit accused me of being the one who made the video and, to TourneyKit's credit, an immediate retraction of that accusation was made after rereading the thread.

 

Another poster, raineyfromsharon, indicated her daughter recognized some of the people in the video as some of the kids she met on the cruise, and some of them were younger teens. I haven't checked to see if the video maker's post was pulled from my thread, but if it hasn't been, it would be worth reviewing to get a more accurate description of what happened that evening. This might put to an end the speculation of the ages of those who participated and why they choose to behave in such a manner (no excuse would justify their behavior).

 

It would appear that the majority of people who have posted on this subject did not know the "riot" was taking place in the wee hours of the morning before we arrived back in NYC. I think the majority of us read about the incident via Cruise Critic postings.

[MaryPoppinz]

Twenty Five minutes from start to finish .

 

It was twenty-five minutes from the time they started taping until they ran out of tape, not twenty-five minutes from start to finish of the incident. But, even that was much too long for people to be damaging the ships' furnishings and leaving a horrid mess behind for the crew to be hauled out of bed to clean. They should have sent these people to their cabins when they were caught sneaking into the disco and being belligerent about its closing --before they were allowed to trash the atrium.