Receive a response from email on brownie riot

[spongerob]

Sounds like they need more security, or fewer kids. :rolleyes:

[makeup face]

So bad parenting validates Princesses inability to control the situation???

I don't think so. Lets get real here, they owe it to passengers to control situations like this...

 

 

Yep......I'll get real....a responsible child either wouldn't have been involved or asleep in their cabin at 3:00am. Passengers with child need to control them.....not Princess. A cruiseline is not responsible to see that passenger's children act civil aboard a ship...is that real enough for you???

[makeup face]

Sounds like they need more security, or fewer kids. :rolleyes:

 

 

One reason I cruise when kids don't;)

[PescadoAmarillo]

It disturbs me still when I read "we (Princess, but it can be anybody, on land or sea) can only do so much.

 

There really should be some kind of contigency plan. For the amount of employees on board, you would think that they could have been roused to disburse the situation. Backup security? Who do you turn to?

 

Can you imagine if something worse was going down? :mad:

 

I so agree! It reminds me of the posts, after the Crown (dare I say the word?) tilt, when we debated headcount being taken. People stated that it was too chaotic to be able to do that effectively. Well...aren't chaotic situations exactly the ones in which taking a headcount might be required???

 

If the peace can't be kept among a bunch of unarmed young people, how do any of us stand a chance in the event people with truly nasty intentions get on board?

 

But even more disturbing to me is that PRIVILEGED young people (and all of us who cruise are privileged), feel the need to act like this. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood (having been raised in anything but), and I see the same sorts of antics going on around here (less than 5 miles from Columbine High School, and with that still fresh in our memories). I remember being the age of those in the video (it was less than 30 years ago), and for all the stupid things I did, nothing ever came close to that. If I had, I wouldn't have been allowed to live to post the video proudly on the internet.

 

The parents of every one of those kids needs to read a book by Madeline Levine called "The Price of Privilege: how parental pressure and material advantage are creating a generation of disconnected and unhappy kids". Maybe I am so fired up because I just finished reading this book and it left quite an impression. To see that beautiful atrium trashed by brownies...it makes me nauseous!

[jlp20]

OK, I read this thread and ignored it for the first couple of days. I viewed the video and determined that this was much to do about nothing.

 

The thread came back and since I must have missed something, I watched the video and read the posts again.

 

1. The term “riot” came from the filmmaker, I imagine trying to make it more interesting that it is.

 

2. The filming was done sometime between 2:00 AM and 6:00 AM. It’s dark outside and there are few if any other passengers up and about.

 

3. I must assume that liquor is involved and I must also assume the people on the video are under 21. Otherwise, these would be young people acting foolish and there would be no story or thread.

 

4. I watched and listened to the video. I did not see or hear any passenger or ship personnel complain or ask them to be quite. At no time did I see anyone endangering themselves or others.

 

Bottom line, a couple of old farts made themselves “Cruise Police” and felt compelled to make the video and their views the most important thing of the day. No one was hurt, nothing was damaged. As far as we know, no one was even woken from his or her sleep. This was a non-event.

[MrPete]

I viewed the video and determined that this was much to do about nothing.

 

This was a non-event.

 

I am happy to report that within my circles, and what I expose my family to, I found this an event. Regardless of what time it was.

[mrdawson]

I am happy to report that within my circles, and what I expose my family to, I found this an event. Regardless of what time it was.

 

Pete

 

You need to get out more!! ;)

[vozzie]

"Obviously it is not. Otherwise this would not have happened."

 

Obviously...you can't read.......the letter was mailed to me AFTER the brownie riot........not BEFORE:eek: :eek:

 

With respect, I can read and I chose my words carefully. Your post said that Princess said:

 

"Please be assured that the safety and security of our passengers remains our first priority"

 

To me, Princess is saying that they will continue to place our safety and security as their first priority.

 

The facts do not appear to support their claim.

[makeup face]

With respect, I can read and I chose my words carefully. Your post said that Princess said:

 

"Please be assured that the safety and security of our passengers remains our first priority"

 

To me, Princess is saying that they will continue to place our safety and security as their first priority.

 

The facts do not appear to support their claim.

 

 

AH........I don't know about what words you chose...carefully or not. To my knowledge.....no one was hurt in the brownie riot.

Like I have said in this post before.....I stated two lines in my letter....my letter was very detailed regarding security and what was learned from the BR.

 

Since you are so good at chosing your words.....please share with the BB just how you would have handled the brownie riot.

Folks are so quick to pass judgement on others.......when they themselves don't have a clue:rolleyes:

[flamomo]

Bottom line, a couple of old farts made themselves “Cruise Police” and felt compelled to make the video and their views the most important thing of the day. No one was hurt, nothing was damaged. As far as we know, no one was even woken from his or her sleep. This was a non-event.

__________________

Does anyone else see anything wrong with this poster's attitude? This poster's comments sound like someone who would participate in something like "The Brownie Escapade", because "they can". Never mind that it is inappropriate behavior, with the potential for injury to participants and damage to the ship and/or it's furnishings .I believe I did read that there were tables broken, and the atrium piano was misused. "But that's okay - we're having fun"!

The remark about "old farts" is uncalled for. That's a pretty big assumption on your part. And the video was filmed be one of the young participatnts, not by an adult observer.

Maybe to you, jlp20, this was a "non-event" However, many of us posters think it really was a big deal, and we hope never to have something like this occur onboard a cruise we paid to enjoy.

[Guest BeckyThane]

Guys, the last two threads on this "event" got pulled because posters started flaming each other. The same thing is now going on here. Do we want to continue the discussion, or have another thread pulled? I, for one, would like to see the conversation continue, but in a civil fashion.

[Porkys2]

I just hope I'm never on a ship where an argument erupts between a couple dozen CC members... I fear the "brownie riot" would seem tame by comparison. :eek:

[TinaLee]

I stated two lines in my letter....my letter was very detailed regarding security and what was learned from the BR.

 

Perhaps you would care to share the remainder of the letter with us, and not just a snippet? Perhaps if we all had more information, we would also be able to understand the line's stand on this a bit better.

[vozzie]

AH........I don't know about what words you chose...carefully or not. To my knowledge.....no one was hurt in the brownie riot

Like I have said in this post before.....I stated two lines in my letter....my letter was very detailed regarding security and what was learned from the BR.

 

Since you are so good at chosing your words.....please share with the BB just how you would have handled the brownie riot.

Folks are so quick to pass judgement on others.......when they themselves don't have a clue:rolleyes: .

 

1. It's not about who or how many people were hurt or not. It's about the potential for this, or any other incident, to get out of control. For example, you could say that no one was hurt when Joe Blow through his cigarette butt off his balcony into the ocean. But what if he missed and the butt landed on a balcony and started a fire? Fat chance of that ever happening !!!
   
2. As TinaLee suggests, perhaps you should make more of your letter available. We only have what you have released to go on.
   
3. It's not for me to detail how a 'riot' (your words) should be handled. I pay Princess Cruise Lines and its professional staff to take care of those issues ... and they don't appear to be.

[HMSDingy]

Having witnessed personally riots of the political and sporting kind, I can seriously without a doubt dismiss this as being a riot.

 

Were there firearms?

Riot police with billy clubs and shields

Injured?

Loss of lives?

Tear gas cannisters?

 

 

Just a bunch of loud, drunken university students.

 

Everybody take a Valium or double espresso and chill out!:D

[Brownie Scout]

This is slightly OT, but do they have such a thing as a brig on these, ships? I've always assumed so, since in this large a number of people, there are likely to be incidents from time to time that require someone to be restrained. Had this "riot" taken place earlier on, I wonder if they would have put a few of the offenders, and possibly their parents, off the ship?

 

I think the reason so many of us are concerned about episodes like this is because it sets a precendent for the future; if Princess acquires a reputation for allowing this kind of behavior, it is likely to result in more of the same. In fact, out-of-control behavior escalates if it goes unchecked.

[Porkys2]

 

[*]It's not for me to detail how a 'riot' (your words) should be handled.

 

Just to be clear, the term "Brownie Riot" was the term the kids involved were said to have used used to describe the incident. It is also the title of the video documenting it. Nobody in this thread coined the phrase and I'm not sure that anyone is suggesting it was a bona fide riot.

[TourneyKit]

Everytime I view this thread and those past on the same subject, I picture in my mind, the little old lady from the Laff In Show, beating the hell out of a couple of these "young adults" with her umbrella....she would have broke this up in a New York Minute :)

[NotHimAgain]

I stated two lines in my letter....my letter was very detailed regarding security and what was learned from the BR.

 

 

You keep saying that. Why don't you post the entire letter already?

[makeup face]

Perhaps you would care to share the remainder of the letter with us, and not just a snippet? Perhaps if we all had more information, we would also be able to understand the line's stand on this a bit better.

 

Tina Lee......

If the letter was sent via email.....I would have no problem cutting and pasting in to the BB. Since it was not....I have a little more to do with my time then re-type the letter.....a "snippet" is all you'll have. That's all the information you are going to get from me because additional information wouldn't change a thing.

Folks can think what they prefer to think about Princess Cruiselines.....about the Brownie Riots.....about what should or should not have been done.....about the age of those involved.......have at it. I for one am through with the discussion.

 

Before I go.......vozzie......The Brownie Riot was the name given by the "producer" of the video. A little something else you must have missed while "watching" the video....

 

Good Night and good bye

[caribbean dreams]

this was the last night of the cruise and they were only a couple of hours from their home port.

 

This started much earlier in the evening, they kept trying to sneak in the disco and were asked to leave, finally the staff closed the disco 2 hours earily so they decided to party in the atium.

The kid that filmed the video is 17, this is not his first cruise so he should know who to act.

If he is 17 than i would be willing to bet that most of them were under age also so where were their parents or guardians?

[LoveCruisin4Fun]

All I can say is wow! there was one interesting tidbit that I noticed that no one else brought up. during the first maybe 5-10 min of the video, there is a screaming match that occurs with a girl and a guy, about the brownies having something derogatory to do with race. did anyone else catch this.

 

At any rate, I am glad I was not on this sailing, and god willing it will not happen on my next one.

[TinaLee]

Tina Lee......

If the letter was sent via email.....I would have no problem cutting and pasting in to the BB. Since it was not....I have a little more to do with my time then re-type the letter.....a "snippet" is all you'll have. That's all the information you are going to get from me because additional information wouldn't change a thing.

 

Geeze, I didn't mean it as a derogatory term for Pete's sake! I just wondered what the rest of the letter said!! (shaking head)

 

 

Edited to add... I honestly think in the time it took to post 14 replies to this thread, the most effective use of your time would have been to post the entire letter. You certainly would have made the cruise line's justification clearer for the rest of us and spent less time defending yourself. And I say this without malice. (really)

[ghgeckos]

After watching the video and reading all of the posts I begin to wonder what can princess learn form this incident.

 

- Do they need a late night venue for the late night younger crowd where no alcohol is served?

 

- Should they have opened one of the closed venues and asked the late night crowd to take there gathering into a contained space?

 

- Princess should be more proactive in limiting the alcohol purchasing of people who are underage or providing alcohol to minors while cruising from U.S. ports.

[Cruisin Kay D]

Thought #1: A cruise line could create & issue different seapass card (color or design) for minors -- then bartenders could immediately see who can get drinks & who cannot -- birthdates are on passports -- so verification in advance of issuing cards would not be difficult. This system would NOT PREVENT (1) drinking in the cabin/balcony OR (2) over-21 buying several drinks & passing off one to an under-21.

 

Thought #2: Many places now require photo ID for all people (even a 60+ grey-haired granny like me) for all purchases of alcohol be it beer or mixed drinks.

 

Thought #3: Princess security is not like a police force!! Doubt there would have been enough security people to round up that group & shut them up.

 

Thought #4: If Princess security had moved in to shut them up, that in itself would probably have escalated the "riot". Sort of like trying to control/calm a pack of large dogs that are wildly-acting barking running......like stay clear to avoid being bit....

 

Thought #5: Opening a room/bar & not serving any more drinks would have likely been the best idea to get that group corraled.

 

Thought #6: The camera person was jerking the camera all around as if being bumped/pushed -- notice how picture goes up-down-sideways -- which gives appearance of worse situation. Was he/she PURPOSELY making it look alot worse?

 

Thought #7: Use the same sort of camera action to videograph regular people trying to move around in a crowded photo gallery or other crowded place (muster drill?) and it will look a WHOLE LOT WORSE!

 

I admit I have not watched the whole thing so I may not have seen the worst parts. I quit after 5 minutes -- how long does it run?