Fuel Supplement announced (4 merged threads)

[shepp]

When you consider the average price of a cabin on a 14 day cruise of around $2400 this is a very insignificant amount of increase and a totally idiotic reason to cancel a booked cruise. The cost of gas for my work vehicles has increased by over a $100 a month and I am not going to park them and close down my business If any one here “truly” believes they can not afford to pay a maximum additional $70 for their cruise they probably have no business booking that cruise in the first place.:p

 

 

Well, that's pretty damn judgmental of you. :p

 

I'm not paying $2400 for my 14-day cruise, much less, like many CCers, booking a verandah or a suite. If I owned my own business and felt I could afford that sort of money, it would, yes, be a negligible increase. But I'm a freelance writer who also works a part-time minimum wage job. (Sorry, but there it is.) A cruise is something of a splurge for me, and when I discovered a great deal on the Mercury, I canceled a 7-day to Alaska on Princess, and booked a bargain inside on an X two-weeker for an affordable amount of extra money. Now the base price of my cruise is - without warning - going up by almost 10%, and while that's not cause to cancel, to me, $140 is, as my partner said, "not chicken feed."

 

I think what's most irritating for me is the no-warning aspect. I had heard about the Carnival surcharge and assumed (wrongly) that prepayment would likewise not make any difference if and when RCL matched the charge. Sure, I would have been happy to plunk down the final to save the surcharge money. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. But, with no grace period, I feel blindsided. (In fact, I called X less than two days before the charge took effect, and the rep told me they hadn't heard anything about a potential surcharge. Yet, clearly, the surcharge plans were already fully in place.) I know this sort of thing is bound to be arbitrary, but...

 

I don't know, perhaps you're right, and peons like me, who have to work 2 or 3 nights to earn a post-tax $140, don't have any business booking in the first place. On the other hand, I am, in the manner of the typical flat tax, subsidizing the 180-day cruises of Hummer-driving millionaires, so perhaps my social utility isn't nil. Gosh, I hope not.

[jaxon41]

//On the other hand, I am, in the manner of the typical flat tax, subsidizing the 180-day cruises of Hummer-driving millionaires, so perhaps my social utility isn't nil. Gosh, I hope not.//

 

Astute!

[FinelyCruising]

I have only read 90 some posts on this thread, but have read all of the 600 plus on the RCCL thread. I book X or RCCL depending on intinerary, etc., but have more credits on X.

 

Many of us are writing the Fl Attorney General and our own state's Attorney General on the matter. All of us who have already deposited on a cruise have a contract which allows for increases only in taxes and other governmental fees. I apologize if further on, this has already been posted, but here's a link to a Fl. AG settlement in 1997 and you can use the link to complain, by clicking on the contact us in the header: http://myfloridalegal.com/__852562220065EE67.nsf/0/32973A68E1B5BC5C85256435004EF6B1?Open&Highlight=0,norris,1997

 

"Under the agreements, the cruise lines can no longer charge customers any fees in addition to the advertised initial ticket price except those fees actually passed on by the company to a governmental agency."

It would appear that NCL is the only line in compliance as it is not charging the surcharge to those already booked and deposited.

 

I do not know why the suits thought they could get away with this given the contract language that your price will not go up except for taxes and other government fees once you are fully deposited. Perhaps they thought there would be no outrage.

 

Consider that new bookings for Jan and Dec are NOT being charged.

I can understand a fuel surcharge going foward for new bookings, but not those under contract, already. It is really an outrage not to have let those within days of their final payment, know that they could pay in full a little early and avoid the fees.

 

Writing the company is really of no avail, writing your AG and the FL AG might produce results.

 

I think the Port Charges decision cited and this new Fuel Supplement are two different things. But good luck with the effort. :)

[shepp]

I wish...

 

I wish that I could work for Celebrity...

 

And I wish that I could talk to some of you folks when you call in to see if there is a price reduction on your cruise...

 

And I wish I could say to: "But didn't we already agree on a price?"

 

And then I could listen to scream even louder about that than you are about the fuel charge.

 

I guess that what's sauce for the goose is not really sauce for the gander after all (to keep it in the holiday spirit!).

 

Well, if I may be permitted an imperfect analogy:

 

Macy's has a price adjustment policy. If the price of an item you buy goes down within 10 days and you ask, they will cheerfully refund the difference.

 

On the other hand, if you buy a gold bracelet from macys.com and they haven't even shipped it to you yet, they won't get in touch and say, "Gee, the price of gold has gone up and we're going to have to pay more for our jewelry from now on, so we're dinging your credit card for another 20 bucks."

 

And yes, I know about the final-payment dealie...like I said, the analogy's imperfect, more suitable to the CCL surcharge. But in the real world, downward price adjustments are not uncommon. What is uncommon is to buy something and have the price raised after the fact.

[Jade13]

You have valid point here. HAL is charging everyone booked, paid, unpaid etc etc who are departing after Feb 8, 2008 and that is a little more fair as all passengers will be paying their share of the expense.

 

That is my point and again I agree with all of your posts that I have read on this subject.

[fdpitbull]

This my first time crusing and I know I could have gone somewhere else all inclusive for a lot less. I put a deposit down to hold the price that is the way its been working all my life. I understand why the surcharge was imposed but it is the sneaky underhanded way they went about it. We should have had a chance to pay in full before the 15th of Nov. I hope the celebrity realilzes that this fuel charge may cause some of the staff to get less in tips. So who is it hurting most the little guy as usual. :mad: :confused:

[moorefunn]

m class 1819 rooms x2 x 5 dollars a day equals

$ 18,190 dollars a day

 

how much fuel does the ship burn a day cruising

how much fuel docked (some itinerairies have overnights)

 

multiply this by 4 m ships that is $ 72260 dollars per day i have not fiquered c class or solstace or r ships:eek:

[Charles4515]

This my first time crusing and I know I could have gone somewhere else all inclusive for a lot less. I put a deposit down to hold the price that is the way its been working all my life. I understand why the surcharge was imposed but it is the sneaky underhanded way they went about it. We should have had a chance to pay in full before the 15th of Nov. I hope the celebrity realilzes that this fuel charge may cause some of the staff to get less in tips. So who is it hurting most the little guy as usual. :mad: :confused:

 

A lot of people here don't realize that the all inclusive resort has become a better value than in the past.

 

Please don't take it out on the staff. They are not responsible. And are hard working. If you need to make up the difference, put the hurt on the cruise line. One way I suggest is not booking the cruise lines shore excursions. There is hardly any port where you can't save money doing the same excursions with an independent tour operator or even just taking a taxi. You might have to do a little research but it is worth it. And lots of great port info on the Cruise Critic port boards.

[jasm8449]

One of my first thoughts on learning about this (my final payment date is in 3 weeks), was that some passengers might make up some or all of the surcharge by stiffing the crew on their gratuities. But DH said the only passengers who would do that are the ones who would stiff them anyway, even if there wasn't a surcharge.

[seattleadjuster]

Have the cruise lines ever given a "fuel rebate," when the price of fuel went down?

 

I have a feeling the answer is no.

[DaveFr]

m class 1819 rooms x2 x 5 dollars a day equals

$ 18,190 dollars a day

 

how much fuel does the ship burn a day cruising

how much fuel docked (some itinerairies have overnights)

 

multiply this by 4 m ships that is $ 72260 dollars per day i have not fiquered c class or solstace or r ships:eek:

I don't know how much fuel an M-Class ship uses per day but your figure of 1819 rooms on an M-Class ship is way off. Figures I've seen put the passenger capacity (two to a room) at either 1950 or 2030 with about 1020 rooms.

[jaxon41]

I think the Port Charges decision cited and this new Fuel Supplement are two different things. But good luck with the effort. :)

 

Of course, you are correct -- they are different things, and we do not have the actual settlement, but if we can trust the press release, the language is unequivocal, and that language was repeated in the cruise contract prior to Nov 15th. Now, they can change the language, prospectively, which they have done, but if you deposited prior to the change, you are under the old contract language, ie, no increase except for taxes and other government fees.

 

Do read the new paragraph #21, because it is not just a fuel surcharge that they can hit all bookings with under the new language, but ANY unanticipated cost, at any time. While I will argue that fuel hikes are not unanticipated, a broken pod is, so are food costs. Under the new language, you could be charged with these "unexpected" costs even after final payment, maybe the day before your cruise. The European RCI contracts, at least, say they will not increase your cost 30 days before your cruise (they always allowed for passing on increased costs in fuel or food or whatever).

[shepp]

Of course, you are correct -- they are different things, and we do not have the actual settlement, but if we can trust the press release, the language is unequivocal, and that language was repeated in the cruise contract prior to Nov 15th.

 

So, I'm wondering...do you have a copy of the relevant section of the pre-11/15 X contract? I'm also wondering what would happen if someone simply refused to pay, citing that contract. Would they summarily be debooked and their deposit returned?

 

I smell a class-action suit here...

[jaxon41]

So, I'm wondering...do you have a copy of the relevant section of the pre-11/15 X contract? I'm also wondering what would happen if someone simply refused to pay, citing that contract. Would they summarily be debooked and their deposit returned?

 

I smell a class-action suit here...

 

What is being quoted on the RCI thread is the answer to the question -- Will the Price Increase? which you can find in RCI's brochures. I understand the prior language has been removed from their site, but it really doesn't make any difference, as the brochure info would be considered as part of a contract, much like an employee handbook is. I would have to search to see if I have an old contract from prior bookings.

 

In any case, the applicable language is: ...once Royal Caribbean has a received a full deposit for the service intially booked by a guest, the cruise rate...will not change, although the guest will remain liable for any applicable taxes, fees or surcharges that may be assessed by any government or quasi-government agencies.

 

The company's letter regarding the increases would suggest that refusal to pay would debook you. Hopefully, a class action suit after the fact to recoup monies will not be necessary. Hopefully enough letters to the Fl AG and one's home state AG will do the trick to see that those who had deposited on a booking prior to the change in the contract language will have their contracts honored.

 

Carnival seems to be the worst offender, applying the surcharge to even paid in full bookings (I don't know what their contract language is), and NCL seems to be following the letter and spirit of the 1997 settlement, applying the new charges/contract language to new bookings, only.

[FinelyCruising]

Well let's take a look at a scorecard for booked cruises: For corrections or addtions please update as needed.

 

 

HAL - All paid and unpaid after February 2008

 

Carnival - All paid and unpaid after February 2008 (?)

 

NCL - Only on new bookings

 

Celebrity - All unpaid for salings February 2008

 

 

If we compare the Celebrity decision beside HAL and Carnival, the idea that at least all those cruisers must pay is a more fair approach...I think the X decision takes in less dollars....who knows how much each line really needs per ship...maybe the other lines are taking more than they need based on thier approach to the supplement.

[Jade13]

I have only read 90 some posts on this thread, but have read all of the 600 plus on the RCCL thread. I book X or RCCL depending on intinerary, etc., but have more credits on X.

 

Many of us are writing the Fl Attorney General and our own state's Attorney General on the matter. All of us who have already deposited on a cruise have a contract which allows for increases only in taxes and other governmental fees. I apologize if further on, this has already been posted, but here's a link to a Fl. AG settlement in 1997 and you can use the link to complain, by clicking on the contact us in the header: http://myfloridalegal.com/__852562220065EE67.nsf/0/32973A68E1B5BC5C85256435004EF6B1?Open&Highlight=0,norris,1997

 

"Under the agreements, the cruise lines can no longer charge customers any fees in addition to the advertised initial ticket price except those fees actually passed on by the company to a governmental agency."

 

It would appear that NCL is the only line in compliance as it is not charging the surcharge to those already booked and deposited.

 

I do not know why the suits thought they could get away with this given the contract language that your price will not go up except for taxes and other government fees once you are fully deposited. Perhaps they thought there would be no outrage.

 

Consider that new bookings for Jan and Dec are NOT being charged.

I can understand a fuel surcharge going foward for new bookings, but not those under contract, already. It is really an outrage not to have let those within days of their final payment, know that they could pay in full a little early and avoid the fees.

 

Writing the company is really of no avail, writing your AG and the FL AG might produce results.

 

Would this be applicable to any cruiseline who has an office in Florida? Would it apply to residents of other States?

 

My issue is that it was not done by Celebrity across the board. Those who paid in full by December 15 are off the hook. I was within weeks of final payment. Where is the language in the contract if Celebrity has changed the contract on-line. Can you post the before and after language?

[Jade13]

Of course, you are correct -- they are different things, and we do not have the actual settlement, but if we can trust the press release, the language is unequivocal, and that language was repeated in the cruise contract prior to Nov 15th. Now, they can change the language, prospectively, which they have done, but if you deposited prior to the change, you are under the old contract language, ie, no increase except for taxes and other government fees.

 

Do read the new paragraph #21, because it is not just a fuel surcharge that they can hit all bookings with under the new language, but ANY unanticipated cost, at any time. While I will argue that fuel hikes are not unanticipated, a broken pod is, so are food costs. Under the new language, you could be charged with these "unexpected" costs even after final payment, maybe the day before your cruise. The European RCI contracts, at least, say they will not increase your cost 30 days before your cruise (they always allowed for passing on increased costs in fuel or food or whatever).

 

I just found the (new) Price Terms, including the PDF with Section 21 (last one) saying they can increase price for fuel anytime whether or not you have paid in full. The page is not dated.

 

Ok, so do you have a PDF of the original Passenger Ticket Contract prior to November 16? You would need it posted somewhere (with link) if you want everyone to have access to a copy to e-mail/send back to Celebrity. That is what most people responding are missing. Unfortunately it is not attached to the Confirmation that Celebrity e-mails everyone which just says to find the terms on Celebrity.com.

 

 

Important Price Information

 

Celebrity Cruises Inc. reserves the right to change, whether via an increase or decrease, any published rates, including cruise rates and airfare charges, without prior notice. We reserve the right to impose on any existing booking or new bookings (whether paid in full or not) a supplement for fuel or other matters without prior notice as provided in our Passenger Ticket Contract which appears at http://www.celebritycruises.com/CCICruiseTicketcontractpdf. In addition, we reserve the right to pass through any third party imposed fuel or other surcharges, also without prior notice, The guest will remain liable for any applicable taxes, fees or surcharges that may be assessed by any governmental or quasi-governmental agencies.

[Jade13]

Someone asked above and HAL's on-line Contract gives them the right to Add a fuel charge. Their contract is dated October 9, 2007 (but I don't know when the fuel charge was added for HAL?) or whether this was changed recently?

 

HAL's language:

 

B. THE CRUISE OR CRUISETOUR

 

1. Additions to Fare/Non-Discountable Amount, Taxes and Surcharges: (a) The fare that you paid was determined far in advance of Initial Departure on the basis of then-existing projections of fuel and other costs. In the event of an increase in fuel or other costs above amounts projected, we have the right to increase the fare at any time up to Initial Departure and to require payment of the additional fare prior to Initial Departure. We have the right to refuse to transport you unless the additional fare is paid. Within seven (7) days after you are notified of the additional fare (but no later than Initial Departure), you may elect to surrender this contract to us for cancellation, whereupon you will receive the Refund Amount. Cancellation fees do not apply to this type of refund.

[terrydtx]

Someone asked above and HAL's on-line Contract gives them the right to Add a fuel charge. Their contract is dated October 9, 2007 (but I don't know when the fuel charge was added for HAL?) or whether this was changed recently? [/font][/color][/b]

 

Hal announced their surcharge on Nov. 10th

[Jade13]

Hal announced their surcharge on Nov. 10th

 

So, they already had this language in their contract unless it was edited without changing the date?

[Hflors]

Wow I just got an e-mail from my TA. Celebrity is giving me "one logo item" to share with my dh for the mere price of $5.00 per day for the duration of our cruise! Now folks that's a bargain!!!!!

 

I e-mailed the captain's club and told them they could keep their lousy logo item!

 

Maybe if they offer it to me I can auctiion if on E-bay!

[Jade13]

Wow I just got an e-mail from my TA. Celebrity is giving me "one logo item" to share with my dh for the mere price of $5.00 per day for the duration of our cruise! Now folks that's a bargain!!!!!

 

I e-mailed the captain's club and told them they could keep their lousy logo item!

 

Maybe if they offer it to me I can auctiion if on E-bay!

 

Great idea on the logo item:rolleyes: I have two teenager in a cabin and now I will be forced to purchase a second item so they both get whatever it is.

[Jade13]

Of course, you are correct -- they are different things, and we do not have the actual settlement, but if we can trust the press release, the language is unequivocal, and that language was repeated in the cruise contract prior to Nov 15th. Now, they can change the language, prospectively, which they have done, but if you deposited prior to the change, you are under the old contract language, ie, no increase except for taxes and other government fees.

 

Do read the new paragraph #21, because it is not just a fuel surcharge that they can hit all bookings with under the new language, but ANY unanticipated cost, at any time. While I will argue that fuel hikes are not unanticipated, a broken pod is, so are food costs. Under the new language, you could be charged with these "unexpected" costs even after final payment, maybe the day before your cruise. The European RCI contracts, at least, say they will not increase your cost 30 days before your cruise (they always allowed for passing on increased costs in fuel or food or whatever).

 

Those overseas are not being charged if they already made a deposit, and they have until Wednesday to make other payments (perhaps book new cruises per another post). So, why are UK residents being treated different?

[jaxon41]

I just found the (new) Price Terms, including the PDF with Section 21 (last one) saying they can increase price for fuel anytime whether or not you have paid in full. The page is not dated.

 

Ok, so do you have a PDF of the original Passenger Ticket Contract prior to November 16? You would need it posted somewhere (with link) if you want everyone to have access to a copy to e-mail/send back to Celebrity. That is what most people responding are missing. Unfortunately it is not attached to the Confirmation that Celebrity e-mails everyone which just says to find the terms on Celebrity.com.

 

 

Important Price Information

 

Celebrity Cruises Inc. reserves the right to change, whether via an increase or decrease, any published rates, including cruise rates and airfare charges, without prior notice. We reserve the right to impose on any existing booking or new bookings (whether paid in full or not) a supplement for fuel or other matters without prior notice as provided in our Passenger Ticket Contract which appears at http://www.celebritycruises.com/CCICruiseTicketcontractpdf. In addition, we reserve the right to pass through any third party imposed fuel or other surcharges, also without prior notice, The guest will remain liable for any applicable taxes, fees or surcharges that may be assessed by any governmental or quasi-governmental agencies.

 

You have caught the catch 22 -- they refer you to a website, but then they changed the website. Actually, I think under some state laws, this could be a problem along the lines of full disclosure statutes, IF that information is different than the brochure information.

 

In any case, all I can tell you is that I pulled one of the brochures from X (2007-8 Exotics) and on page 100, under, cruise/cruisetour vacation price, you will find the same language as in RCI's brochure. To wit: ..once Celebrity Cruises has recieved a full deposit for the service intially booked by the guestthe cruise/cruisetour rates...will not change, although the guest will remain liable for any applicable taxes, fees or surcharges that may be assessed by any GOVERNMENT or quasi-governmental agencies.

 

As for a PDF prior to Nov 15th, I'll let the AG's request that. Those of us who wrote the FL AG got an email this morning saying they were refering the matter to their economic crimes division. They also say that since this involves a cruise, we may want to contact the Federal Maritime Commission to file a complaint. You can see the full email on the RCI thread about the surcharge, with addresses and links.

[jaxon41]

Those overseas are not being charged if they already made a deposit, and they have until Wednesday to make other payments (perhaps book new cruises per another post). So, why are UK residents being treated different?

 

Yep, it is bizarre; those who they could legally add a fuel surcharge to, aren't getting it (speaking of cruises under deposit, here), and those we maintain they can't add it to, are getting it.

 

The UK contracts are different because of their laws. The UK division may have something to do with it. Who knows? Maybe becuse they pay in Euro's which are far more valuable than dollars? Just no clue.