NEW TIP POLICY - Automatic Charge & "Alternate Service" tip

[mustcruisemore]

We don't always go to the main dining room and we are not going to tip for a service we don't use. Should I also tip the servers at the speciality restaurants if I never go there? Maybe I should go ahead and pay the extra $30 you have to pay at the speciality restaurant if I don't go there either. And maybe I should just go by every bar on the ship and start tipping without ever ordering a drink. What about tipping the spa attendants when I don't set foot in the spa? Let's see - who else ??? It would really add up it you tipped people that never served you. Not going to happen!

[Ma Bell]

Wow.

[Sky Sweet]

When we moved a relative into an assisted living facility a few years ago, I asked the director about their tipping policy for various services.

 

To my surprise, he replied that they had a very strict no tipping policy because all of their residents were entitled to the same level of service and they didn't want to create a situation where people who gave large tips were treated differently. He also said that since all of these services are included in their monthly fee there is no reason to pay extra for them.

 

I realize that this facility is subject to US labor laws so all of their employees earn at least minimum wage. However, it is probably harder to live on minimum wage in the US than it is on what some people earn on a ship.

 

With this in mind, maybe the idea of of automated tips where everyone pays the same isn't so bad.

 

As far as rewarding crew who are better than the rest, that can be done by writing a good review about them that will increase that person's chances of getting promoted.

[DaveFr]

We don't always go to the main dining room and we are not going to tip for a service we don't use. Should I also tip the servers at the speciality restaurants if I never go there? Maybe I should go ahead and pay the extra $30 you have to pay at the speciality restaurant if I don't go there either. And maybe I should just go by every bar on the ship and start tipping without ever ordering a drink. What about tipping the spa attendants when I don't set foot in the spa? Let's see - who else ??? It would really add up it you tipped people that never served you. Not going to happen!

I understand the rationale of not tipping people who do not serve you. The question then becomes do you tip the people who do serve you? For example, on a day in which you don't eat dinner in the main dining room, do you tip your servers in the main dining room or buffet during breakfast and lunch? If you get some ice cream in the afternoon do you tip the server?

 

Most passengers don't tip for these services and others because they are performed in part by the same waiters and assistant waiters who work dinners in the main dining room. The tips given to the dining room staff cover more than dinner service. IMO, part of the problem comes from the fact that the tipping tradition on cruise ships comes from a time when passengers ate all or virtually all of their meals in the main dining room. Thus, one tip to the dining room staff covered all daily service. Today, however, there are a multitude of dining choices outside the main dining room. As a consequence, the main dining room staff is, intentionally or unintentionally, getting stiffed on service they provide throughout the day when passengers don't tip them for each day of the cruise.

 

I think the best solution is to add a daily service charge into the cruise fare and pay servers a living wage. However, unless all the mass market and so called premium lines did so, increasing the fare on a single line like Celebrity would put them at a competitive disadvantage with many cruisers who base their cruising decisions in large part on price. Failing that, I agree with BrendaJ and others that Celebrity should call a spade a spade and stop using the terms gratuity and tip. Instead they should call the fee by its true name, a service charge. The service charge should be included automatically.

 

Dave

[willysgrandma]

I guess we'll have to wait for the first people who sail after this is implemented to come back to this thread and tell us indeed if they were charged the $11.50 and if they are able to remove some of it, or all of it to tip in cash.

 

I have no problem myself with auto tips and generally like them, but to pay for alternative service that I likely will not be using - I don't care for that. It isn't going to break me, but enough is enough with the nickle and diming.

[Wine-O]

I guess we'll have to wait for the first people who sail after this is implemented to come back to this thread and tell us indeed if they were charged the $11.50 and if they are able to remove some of it, or all of it to tip in cash.

 

I have no problem myself with auto tips and generally like them, but to pay for alternative service that I likely will not be using - I don't care for that. It isn't going to break me, but enough is enough with the nickle and diming.

 

"Please note that for all sailings beginning on or after January 15, 2009, for your convenience, we will automatically add gratuities for your restaurant and stateroom services to your onboard Seapass account on a daily basis in the following amounts, which may be adjusted at your discretion:"

 

I wonder what that means, "which may be adjusted at your discretion"? In the past, if you were to pay your tips with your seapass, you had to pay all the recommended tips, including maitre'd and asst housekeeper.

 

I'm sure you can go down to the "desk" and cancel all automatic daily payments to your seapass and pay on your own, but who do you give the envelope to for the "alternative services" should you decide to tip for that? :confused:

[CHEZMARYLOU]

 

Could you tell us what services the head housekeeper provided? I'm just curious since I've never had contact with this person and have presumed they are basic supervisory personnel.

 

We somehow locked our safe after entering the wrong security code when we were setting it up. The assistant head housekeeper opened it for us. We were on a repositioning cruise from Bayone. The ship had just finished the Canadian and New England Cruises and the robes in the cabins were still the heavy terry cloth. As we got further south and it began to get warmer we asked the cabin attendant for a lighter robe. He did not have access to one but the assistant head housekeeper was able to get them for us.

 

Mary Lou

[frito58]

I recently was telling someone who had cruised before about our upcoming cruise, and mentioned that I had gotten "prepaid gratuities". He asked what that was--when I explained, he looked completely abashed. "You're supposed to TIP????? I never knew that!!!" I thought he was pulling my leg, but he was completely serious. Just goes to show ya'! Those people DO exist out there!

 

Cathy

 

This really doesn't suprise me. Assume if you will someone lets a TA do all their booking and they don't do any research just show up and cruise, they leave tip envelopes but I don't recall any directions on how much they reccomend. They leave tip envelopes in every hotel does everyone leave a tip in a hotel after a night or 2?????

[dkjretired]

"Please note that for all sailings beginning on or after January 15, 2009, for your convenience, we will automatically add gratuities for your restaurant and stateroom services to your onboard Seapass account on a daily basis in the following amounts, which may be adjusted at your discretion:"

 

I wonder what that means, "which may be adjusted at your discretion"? In the past, if you were to pay your tips with your seapass, you had to pay all the recommended tips, including maitre'd and asst housekeeper.

 

I'm sure you can go down to the "desk" and cancel all automatic daily payments to your seapass and pay on your own, but who do you give the envelope to for the "alternative services" should you decide to tip for that? :confused:

 

I posed the question early in this thread about them posting daily to your account. Can you have a previous days tips removed and pay them yourself.

[CathyCruises]

We don't always go to the main dining room and we are not going to tip for a service we don't use. Should I also tip the servers at the speciality restaurants if I never go there? Maybe I should go ahead and pay the extra $30 you have to pay at the speciality restaurant if I don't go there either. And maybe I should just go by every bar on the ship and start tipping without ever ordering a drink. What about tipping the spa attendants when I don't set foot in the spa? Let's see - who else ??? It would really add up it you tipped people that never served you. Not going to happen!

 

 

Well, if you're not eating in the MDR, you ARE I presume eating somewhere. Following your logic, do you the tip if you eat at the buffet or pool bbq area? Your MDR tip covers all of those who help you at other times of the day than dinner, and in other venues. You may notice that it is the same personnel. So by stiffing your dining room waiter by not tipping him/her for meals you don't eat there, you are also stiffing everyone who helps you and serves you in oher dining locales.

 

While I do not agree with just signing a blank check, the waitstaff works very hard and in my opinion deserves the very modest tip we are expected to leave.

 

CATHY

[warmwinds]

We leave a $5 tip in a land-based hotel every single night, and we do it every night rather than at the end because the same person might not clean your room every day. Cruise tips are a bargain compared to what you pay in restaurants and hotels on shore.

 

As to what the head housekeeper told us - they were stories about this and that, honestly I'm sorry I don't remember any specifics, but any problem with a room, or disatisfaction with your stewards, are handled by him. Yes, it's a supervisory position, but the tip amount was always so small as I recall that it became a non-issue for us once we heard what they did (apologies again, it was New Year's Eve when he sat at our table and I don't recall much after him having signing rights to several bottles of wine and champagne at our table :)

[Grandma Rambo]

Grandma Rainbow,

 

I am glad that you are enjoying your cruises and that you have found a way to adjust to your needs. You are free to do as you wish, but it does impact the staff.

 

This is a good example of the affect of individual choices on the staff. Although a particular table might have someone added, another table would have someone removed, so somewhere a staff person does not receive a tip for two people. It has always been my understanding that the tips are not only for the dinner service because the same staff work in the dining room and buffet area for breakfast and lunch. Therefore the tips is also for breakfast and lunch. A real bargain. The affected server cannot just reduce his schedule or work less because you are eating in the casual venue or speciality rest. They just work a little less at dinner because they are serving two less people and the same the rest of the day. It is hard to not feel sorry for the servers affected.

 

If the cruise company reduces the staff on the ship to compensate for the preceived reduction in service needed on any given night (so that every staff member is assured of full tables), then overall service would surely suffer especially if more people show up.

 

Just wanted to make sure you understood the impact of your choice. Of course, you have a the right to make the choice. I am sure that your example is a trend across the board requiring cruise line to seek ways to offset the impact.

 

In the first place, we are "assigned" a table in the MDR only because X won't give us the option when booking. We've have tried to tell them we won't be using it, but there is no way to opt out. We always have to do it personally upon arrival.

 

This is the reason after years of reading Cruise Critic messages I don't post anything, but just "lurk". I have a problem with the implication that we are doing this to save money or stiff the staff. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are accustomed to tipping well at restaurants and hotels in addition to our cruises. We end up spending the same on tips and in no way are trying to cheat anyone. I'm sorry that we two people have such a negative impact that Celebrity chose to inconvenience all other passengers. What we give should be our choice, or it should be called a service charge. So, what you are saying is that those folks who eat in the speciality rest. and pay upwards to $25 plus each for what is supposed to be a gratuity are frowned upon because this is their choice to pay extra? Remember what the word gratuity means and that it is all tax free for the cruise ship workers. Service charge is another meaning entirely. With this new system will the extra charge in the casual dining and speciality restaurants be abolished? I think not. Do you think we should all pay the automatic tip and then in addition pay our casual tip and/or speciality restaurant tip? It just doesn't make any sense to me and I just wanted to clarify that we are not the kind of people who stiff service folks. On the contrary, we always over-tip. We give at least 20% in restaurants regardless of the service. Cruises are well worth the money but are in no means cheap and all this nickle and diming to cruise passengers is just causing more and more to be added to the final bill.

[mustcruisemore]

Well, if you're not eating in the MDR, you ARE I presume eating somewhere. Following your logic, do you the tip if you eat at the buffet or pool bbq area? Your MDR tip covers all of those who help you at other times of the day than dinner, and in other venues. You may notice that it is the same personnel. So by stiffing your dining room waiter by not tipping him/her for meals you don't eat there, you are also stiffing everyone who helps you and serves you in oher dining locales.

 

While I do not agree with just signing a blank check, the waitstaff works very hard and in my opinion deserves the very modest tip we are expected to leave.

 

CATHY

 

So if we're not eating in the MDR, and we are eating in the speciality restaurants and in our room (and tipping room service upon their delivery) and we never set foot in the buffet, does that mean that we should still tip? No service - no tip!

[lawk]

I appreciate the convenience of having the tips added to my Seapass Account. I always chose to have them added to my account, even before the new policy was announced. My only issue is, what is "alternative service"? Celebrity should give an explanation of what this is, when including it. I just want to know who the money is going to.

[lysolqn]

This really doesn't suprise me. Assume if you will someone lets a TA do all their booking and they don't do any research just show up and cruise, they leave tip envelopes but I don't recall any directions on how much they reccomend. They leave tip envelopes in every hotel does everyone leave a tip in a hotel after a night or 2?????

 

On X (at least up until now), tip envelopes come packaged, bound by a 2" ribbon of self-sticking paper pre-printed with recommended tip amounts. The daily has a blurb re auto-tippng every day (even prior to the implementation of the new policy), and one of the first things addressed by the cruise director at every disembarkation talk is tipping. So - if a pax doesn't pick up on tipping one way, he/she is bound to pick up on it another. It's pretty hard to feign ignorance.

 

And yes, we do tip hotel chambermaids for each night of our stay.

[EGG]

Another possible reason - wasn't there a ship this fall that avoided bad weather and missed one port and had a change of port on another day. There was a near mutiny led by a lawyer demanding compensation. When the passengers did not get the compensation the mob said that they were not going to leave tips.

 

My guess is that they did not leave tips and the cruise line did not want this to happen again. They don't want to be held ransom for a weather related situation.

 

As others have said, there are now probably more people that are conveniently forgetting to leave tips. Add to that the fact that until recently the value of the dollar was down and you have several reasons why the cruise line instituted the new tip policy.

[wvufan]

I cannot understand the never ending obsession with tipping policy.

 

Certain recommendations are made by the cruise line-they have been well thought out and agreed upon by the staff, and I'm sure that they have been and will be adjusted in the future to reflect appropriate amounts. Included are individuals such as the head housekeeper who are directly involved in service even if they don't personally attend to the cabin.

 

One key aspect to the tipping custom is that the way to show appreciation to all those who serve in the MDR, cafes, pool grill, etc etc. etc, is to tip the wait staff at your assigned table. That's how it works and it works well if everyone simply tips accordingly.

 

I can't imagine going in to any other business and feeling the need to analyze their compensation or pricing practice. Does anyone question if the price of a refrigerator is too inflated because the salesperson is paid too highly? Does anyone ask if prices would be lower if the employees weren't provided insurance? And so on.

 

Tips on a cruise are part of the cost of cruising. It really doesn't matter if they are a separate charge or included in the cost of cruising-they are still part of the price. By enabling the passenger to address them separately, it adds to the gracious custom of tipping and gives us easier flexibility to tip a little more than usual if warranted and to deduct if service is so poor as to deserve that. And, I like the feeling that I have tipped folks who work so tirelessly to make sure I have a great cruise.

 

From my perspective, I am glad that I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I don't have to try to figure out how much is appropriate. I don't have to figure out how to tip everyone on board. They have guidelines and procedures. In the past, we had to fill out cards with amounts. Then, we were able to fill out a form to authorize the recommended amounts (and easily add a bit more when I felt like it, which is frequently). And now it is even easier!

 

I think I am going to worry about more important things. Like, if they switched to synthetic oil for the engines, would they save enough in maintenance to lower the cost of the cruise? Or, wonder if they are getting the best price on bananas. Or, worry about the cost of fuel while they cricle around in the Caribbean at night between ports. Or if they could eliminate some positions at the buffet bar.

 

Or, maybe I'll just find a nice quiet deck chair, enjoy the sun and the sea and a Carl Hiaasen book, and not worry about anything.

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

[woodofpine]

I posted this on the other thread...

 

I think auto-tipping is GREAT!!

 

The assertion that staffers who suffer the uncertainty of tipping somehow perform better is nonesense! The finest de luxe cruise lines (those that X pax would like to cruise, but can't [or won't] afford) generally include crew compensation in fare and those lines' staff and service remain a cut above.

 

When staff are more certain of compensation, it boosts morale and makes the line more competitive in hiring. Plus - accounting rules provide that keeping crew compensation out of the charged fare revenues allows the cruise lines to improve its on books financial performance and thus keep fares lower (a lot lower than the 10% involved).

 

Personally, having developed a friendly rapport with crewman, I dislike the pomp and scrapping circumstances of presenting tips. Calculating and dispensing cash is inconvenient and inefficient for all concerned. In sum, a) more stable crew compensation improves hiring and service quality (unless the de luxe lines have it all wrong! ;)), b) auto tipping is undeniably convenient and efficient.

 

But - a significant percent of passengers short change the crew (ditto CC), and FOR THEM auto tipping is VERY inconvenient! :p:o:p So - in the spirit of 'perhaps they doth protest too much' online grousing about auto tipping results.

 

But then - tipped crew compensation results in an overall cheaper product, hence a cheaper customer, so the grousing is to be expected.

[kelmac]

I posted this on the other thread...

 

I think auto-tipping is GREAT!!

 

The assertion that staffers who suffer the uncertainty of tipping somehow perform better is nonesense! The finest de luxe cruise lines (those that X pax would like to cruise, but can't [or won't] afford) generally include crew compensation in fare and those lines' staff and service remain a cut above.

 

When staff are more certain of compensation, it boosts morale and makes the line more competitive in hiring. Plus - accounting rules provide that keeping crew compensation out of the charged fare revenues allows the cruise lines to improve its on books financial performance and thus keep fares lower (a lot lower than the 10% involved).

 

Personally, having developed a friendly rapport with crewman, I dislike the pomp and scrapping circumstances of presenting tips. Calculating and dispensing cash is inconvenient and inefficient for all concerned. In sum, a) more stable crew compensation improves hiring and service quality (unless the de luxe lines have it all wrong! ;)), b) auto tipping is undeniably convenient and efficient.

 

But - a significant percent of passengers short change the crew (ditto CC), and FOR THEM auto tipping is VERY inconvenient! :p:o:p So - in the spirit of 'perhaps they doth protest too much' online grousing about auto tipping results.

 

But then - tipped crew compensation results in an overall cheaper product, hence a cheaper customer, so the grousing is to be expected.

 

Well said woodofpine!!:)

[willysgrandma]

Look, I have no problem with tipping and I like the auto tip - it is much easier than having to deal with envelopes.

 

What I DO have a problem with is the new alternative service charge. If Celebrity can explain to me why they are the only line charging this and exactly what it is for - I have no problem with that. However with the way it is worded, it sounds to me like another way to nickle and dime passengers and that I don't agree with.

[woodofpine]

Nickle and diming... Well yah. They are nominally boosting the crew's compensation to temper a sharp decline in the USD over the past 5 years (30% or more) notwithstanding the fact the dollar has rebounded a bit over the past year.

 

Who are these $1.25 per day people? Who knows... Pool attendants? Public rest room cleaners? Laundry people? Do I care? (Not really)

 

Either the line delivers an attractive and attractively priced product (with me aggragating crew compensation gratuities) or it doesn't? I price my vacation accordingly, in round numbers, and think nothing more of it. That's why I like auto-tip, it minimizes my participation. I travel with a family of 6; so mentally I add about $500-600 for a week's cruise or around $1,000 for 10 days. It is the cost of cruising - part of the experience. It is no more voluntary on my part, than the server deciding to take the night off and letting me get my food from the galley would be for him/her (and I like the beds made too). They may call it 'tips' or 'gratuities' - but they're just being coy. It's CRUISING - that's the way they are!

[CaroleSP]

I don't have a lot of time to read today, so I am just going to post my first thought. I apologize if someone else posted the same thing.

 

At this point, it won't be costing me anything as my T/A has gifted the tips to me; it will, however cost the T/A some more $ for my upcoming 12 nighter in March. This should be interesting.

[lysolqn]

Look, I have no problem with tipping and I like the auto tip - it is much easier than having to deal with envelopes.

 

What I DO have a problem with is the new alternative service charge. If Celebrity can explain to me why they are the only line charging this and exactly what it is for - I have no problem with that. However with the way it is worded, it sounds to me like another way to nickle and dime passengers and that I don't agree with.

 

Like you, we've no problem with auto-tipping. In fact, we've taken advantage of it on our last several cruises when offered by X as an option rather than as the norm it is soon to become, as well as on other cruise lines where auto-tipping is routine. Thus, I am curious (rather than troubled) about X's new "Alternative Service Personnel" charge and would love to know who exactly falls into that category. Personnel pax have never been asked to tip until now? Personnel pax routinely tip who may now be feeling the effects of the global recession, falling dollar, loss of pax to alternative dining venues? Service personnel in salaried positions? Just let me know who it is I'm being asked to tip and I'll do so gladly; but so far, no one in this thread has been able to explain who is covered under the rather generic heading of "ASP."

[paulred]

One of the issues when Solstice was launched was tipping in the other venues such as alternative dinner and Bistro for Five. ( yes, I know its called Bistro on Five, but lets call a spade a spade).

 

I am one of those who are OK with a minimum sea pass tipping system, and then let the passenger reward anyone else they feel warrants this. But tipping is supposed to be for individual acts of service. If all those unknowns who do things behind our backs deserve a raise, then add a small amount to the cost of the cruise.

 

As for the Bistro tips, now that they have instituted this new system, are they going to return the Bistro to its previously advertised "included in the price" cost. From on board reports, it sure isn't being used now.

 

Paul

[BurgerBits]

Just one thing. ONE little thing, then I'm done.

 

THE WORD IS NICKEL. It's an American five-cent piece. 'Nickle' is a computer programming language.