Carnival Corp outsourcing some IT jobs

Interesting article about outsourcing at Carnival. According to the article they work for all the cruise lines, including Princess.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/12/12/carnival-cruise-line-plan-threatens-miami-jobs/

I saw that... I do hope that those 350 people who are impacted are picked up by the new company.

It is interesting how they worded this: ......including employment agreements the workers are being pressured to sign, detail how the employees during that six-month employment period will participate in what is described as “knowledge transfer activities.”

The Disney Corporation (in the news last year) wasn't the first to "force" IT workers to train their replacements and they sure won't be the last. I, for one, am glad to be retired from that business.

Bad decision :(

All companies want the biggest bang for their buck and Carnival is no exception. As a cruiser, I've seen plenty of cut backs from cruise lines, it's called business, profit, and answering to stockholders. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's just business and nothing more.

Too bad for them.

I retired from a large international computer manufacturer back in the early part of this century and I saw this trend then. The thought at the time was that they could hire someone from India for half what they were paying us. I am not surprised about what Carnival Corp just did and wonder what took them so long. It is standard procedure to have the current IT people train the foreigners before they are dismissed. Most do it in hopes they will find other employment in the transition period. I don't like it but this has been the trend for the last 16 years or so and is not likely to change.

I was on a cruise the early part of this year and talking to her about AMEX losing the Costco account. What she told me was that she worked for AMEX in SLC and her job was going to Asia. When she returned after the cruise she had to train her replacement before they let her go. When you call AMEX now and someone answers with an Asian accent, you will know why.

Interesting article about outsourcing at Carnival. According to the article they work for all the cruise lines, including Princess.

 

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/12/12/carnival-cruise-line-plan-threatens-miami-jobs/

Same story at Verizon NY office 9 years ago.

All companies want the biggest bang for their buck and Carnival is no exception. As a cruiser, I've seen plenty of cut backs from cruise lines, it's called business, profit, and answering to stockholders. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's just business and nothing more.

I agree!

So, my husband is one of the IT people whose job is being outsourced. We just found out - Merry Xmas, eh?

Here's what he was told: some IT jobs are being retained, mostly mainframe because Capgemini doesn't do mainframe. Capgemini is asking employees to sign a contract to be employed for the next 6 months (to train replacements) but they lose benefits, lose accrued sick time and are required to sign a non-compete agreement so they won't be able to go to another cruise line or IT company who is considered a competitor of Capgemini. And all they get is maybe an extra 6 months of work. If they don't sign the contract, it's considered quitting and they won't be able to get unemployment benefits. My husband wasnt even given enough time to have the contract reviewed by an attorney to see if it's on the up and up. I'm sure Carnival Corp knew long ago they were going to do this- why spring it just before Christmas? And yes, many of the IT people did work for all the lines under Carnival Corp. It all really sucks when most of these workers put in so much work and were invested in the lines. Contract workers won't give a darn about the company.

So, my husband is one of the IT people whose job is being outsourced. We just found out - Merry Xmas, eh?

Here's what he was told: some IT jobs are being retained, mostly mainframe because Capgemini doesn't do mainframe. Capgemini is asking employees to sign a contract to be employed for the next 6 months (to train replacements) but they lose benefits, lose accrued sick time and are required to sign a non-compete agreement so they won't be able to go to another cruise line or IT company who is considered a competitor of Capgemini. And all they get is maybe an extra 6 months of work. If they don't sign the contract, it's considered quitting and they won't be able to get unemployment benefits. My husband wasnt even given enough time to have the contract reviewed by an attorney to see if it's on the up and up. I'm sure Carnival Corp knew long ago they were going to do this- why spring it just before Christmas? And yes, many of the IT people did work for all the lines under Carnival Corp. It all really sucks when most of these workers put in so much work and were invested in the lines. Contract workers won't give a darn about the company.

I can't say anything to make it better, except to send you all my best wishes. This kind of thing makes me sick to my stomach. Corporate America has long become the realm of bean counters, looking at today's spreadsheet, instead of businessmen who take a look at the big picture. Good businessmen (business persons? no intention of being sexist here) take a look at the humanity and best long-term interests of their endeavors, including the tangible and intangible payback of employees emotionally invested in their enterprises. Unfortunately, this kind of thinking is only found in small business, now. This also requires looking more than a week down the road, which doesn't happen in big biz anymore, either. Went through a similar situation as you, except immediate termination, about two years ago.

(And no, I'm not looking to get into a business philosophy debate with anyone here. Save it. I'm simply trying to send best wishes, even though these will not help the immediate situation.)

Be well.

So, my husband is one of the IT people whose job is being outsourced. We just found out - Merry Xmas, eh?

Here's what he was told: some IT jobs are being retained, mostly mainframe because Capgemini doesn't do mainframe. Capgemini is asking employees to sign a contract to be employed for the next 6 months (to train replacements) but they lose benefits, lose accrued sick time and are required to sign a non-compete agreement so they won't be able to go to another cruise line or IT company who is considered a competitor of Capgemini. And all they get is maybe an extra 6 months of work. If they don't sign the contract, it's considered quitting and they won't be able to get unemployment benefits. My husband wasnt even given enough time to have the contract reviewed by an attorney to see if it's on the up and up. I'm sure Carnival Corp knew long ago they were going to do this- why spring it just before Christmas? And yes, many of the IT people did work for all the lines under Carnival Corp. It all really sucks when most of these workers put in so much work and were invested in the lines. Contract workers won't give a darn about the company.

By the way, that non-compete is illegal crap in a lot of states, even if signed. Doesn't mean they won't put it in a document, though. Just a common form of intimidation- "let's see what we can get away with even though we can't enforce it". That's the first thing I would get legal review on...

So, my husband is one of the IT people whose job is being outsourced. We just found out - Merry Xmas, eh?

Here's what he was told: some IT jobs are being retained, mostly mainframe because Capgemini doesn't do mainframe. Capgemini is asking employees to sign a contract to be employed for the next 6 months (to train replacements) but they lose benefits, lose accrued sick time and are required to sign a non-compete agreement so they won't be able to go to another cruise line or IT company who is considered a competitor of Capgemini. And all they get is maybe an extra 6 months of work. If they don't sign the contract, it's considered quitting and they won't be able to get unemployment benefits. My husband wasnt even given enough time to have the contract reviewed by an attorney to see if it's on the up and up. I'm sure Carnival Corp knew long ago they were going to do this- why spring it just before Christmas? And yes, many of the IT people did work for all the lines under Carnival Corp. It all really sucks when most of these workers put in so much work and were invested in the lines. Contract workers won't give a darn about the company.

Unfortunately welcome to present day corporate America. I did not fare as badly as I was old enough to retire and get a severance payout. My sympathy and hope that you are able to work it out. The holiday season is a terrible time to spring this little surprise.

It doesn't matter to me. But if i can't understand them its my right to ask for another person. This brand will not be on the top of the list to cruise, and avoid them like the plague. I'am not santa but i just added them to the avoid list......RADICAL

It doesn't matter to me. But if i can't understand them its my right to ask for another person. This brand will not be on the top of the list to cruise, and avoid them like the plague. I'am not santa but i just added them to the avoid list......RADICAL

What are you talking about? They are outsourcing IT (Information Technology) jobs, not reservation agents... :rolleyes:

What are you talking about? They are outsourcing IT (Information Technology) jobs, not reservation agents... :rolleyes:

I've talked to tech several times when we've had problems with our loyalty accounts.

Reservation agents probably aren't far behind.

So, my husband is one of the IT people whose job is being outsourced. We just found out - Merry Xmas, eh?

Here's what he was told: some IT jobs are being retained, mostly mainframe because Capgemini doesn't do mainframe. Capgemini is asking employees to sign a contract to be employed for the next 6 months (to train replacements) but they lose benefits, lose accrued sick time and are required to sign a non-compete agreement so they won't be able to go to another cruise line or IT company who is considered a competitor of Capgemini. And all they get is maybe an extra 6 months of work. If they don't sign the contract, it's considered quitting and they won't be able to get unemployment benefits. My husband wasnt even given enough time to have the contract reviewed by an attorney to see if it's on the up and up. I'm sure Carnival Corp knew long ago they were going to do this- why spring it just before Christmas? And yes, many of the IT people did work for all the lines under Carnival Corp. It all really sucks when most of these workers put in so much work and were invested in the lines. Contract workers won't give a darn about the company.

I am sorry. I work in IT also. I think it is sad that these jobs are being outsourced and for those who think it is ok, wait until their job gets outsourced and see how they feel. I know some are safe on this board as they are retired but there are a lot of us here who still work and have many years left. I hope your husband is able to find a job quickly. In the end, I hope he is able to land something better than what CCL provided him.

So, my husband is one of the IT people whose job is being outsourced. We just found out - Merry Xmas, eh?

Here's what he was told: some IT jobs are being retained, mostly mainframe because Capgemini doesn't do mainframe. Capgemini is asking employees to sign a contract to be employed for the next 6 months (to train replacements) but they lose benefits, lose accrued sick time and are required to sign a non-compete agreement so they won't be able to go to another cruise line or IT company who is considered a competitor of Capgemini. And all they get is maybe an extra 6 months of work. If they don't sign the contract, it's considered quitting and they won't be able to get unemployment benefits. My husband wasnt even given enough time to have the contract reviewed by an attorney to see if it's on the up and up. I'm sure Carnival Corp knew long ago they were going to do this- why spring it just before Christmas? And yes, many of the IT people did work for all the lines under Carnival Corp. It all really sucks when most of these workers put in so much work and were invested in the lines. Contract workers won't give a darn about the company.

Two things:

First, my sympathy to your husband and your family. As I mentioned over on the Carnival forum, this nearly exact situation happened to me a few years ago but as someone else mentioned, I had a decent severance package to hold us until another job was found (that package however was contingent on my remaining and training my off-shore replacement). It sucks, it's demoralizing and all I can advise is to remain optimistic - change is constant and I'm sure his situation will change for the better also.

Second, I would bet my next to last dollar that Carnival Corp knew about this long ago and I'm surprised word did not leak out to the employees. A company does not enter into an agreement with an outsourcing company without some due diligence and exchange of information prior to signing an outsourcing services contract. Also, things like this often occur in the 4th quarter of the calendar year for year-end financial reporting purposes. The company can "book saves" by making resourcing decisions like this and the 4Q/year end numbers look better as a result. You don't mention the effective date of this so it's possible it won't occur until early 2017 but there may still be some accounting to book the saves in 2016. I'm not condoning this, just saying that's how the people in the CFO's office see it.

Best wishes and good luck to your family..... I've been there and believe me there are better times ahead. :)

I won't dispute what the Poster I've partially quoted says but here's another perspective.

I don't "blame" Carnival at all for outsourcing their IT, and doing whatever else they have to, to cut costs and boot profits.

What they are doing is responding to their shareholders, who are fiscal quarter after fiscal quarter, demanding a better return on their investment. More is never enough for us the shareholders, we have to have more plus 10% next year.

And if we don't get higher dividends, higher stock values we'll just sell our Carnival shares and move the investment elsewhere.

All Carnival is trying to do is keep the shareholders invested in the Company by providing the returns demanded.

Change is inevitable in todays world, even more so in the IT field.

Corporate America has long become the realm of bean counters, looking at today's spreadsheet, instead of businessmen who take a look at the big picture. Good businessmen (business persons? no intention of being sexist here) take a look at the humanity and best long-term interests of their endeavors, including the tangible and intangible payback of employees emotionally invested in their enterprises.

Bootsysmom, I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this. It stinks. But I really hope your husband does choose to speak to an employment lawyer before signing anything. If the info in this story ( http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/12/13/carnival-outsourcing-plans-a-hard-blow-to-take/ ) is correct, he has until the 19th to sign. Corporations count on employees being so shocked and scared that they will sign away their rights. Hope when the dust settles he finds an even better job for a company that will keep their IT staff in the USA. Best wishes to you and your family.

All companies want the biggest bang for their buck and Carnival is no exception. As a cruiser, I've seen plenty of cut backs from cruise lines, it's called business, profit, and answering to stockholders. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's just business and nothing more.

*Stepping on soap box, clearing throat*

This is not just business and nothing more:mad:. This is called "CORPORATE GREED" corporations are not happy with making a Million $ anymore they want BILLIONS. Furthermore, they are making those BILLIONS by cutting American jobs/ wages and out sourcing them to foreign countries. When all these corporations (Carnival Crops, Fords, GM, Chrysler, and any other corporations out sourcing jobs) finally out source all the American jobs out of this country, who is going to buy their products? WHO I ASK...........! Nobody, they will have no jobs/ money to buy any of the products. If and when they bring these job back to america they expect american's to do the job at half the money they were doing it before. Corporate Greed is what is killing this country, and a long with too much spending on capital hill. You my friend must not be in a position to have your job out sourced, or you are part of corporate america one of the two. Have your employer come up to you and say "sorry we are shipping your job over seas" and not only that "your going to train them before we do so".:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

*stepping off the soap box*

*Stepping on soap box, clearing throat*

 

This is not just business and nothing more:mad:. This is called "CORPORATE GREED" corporations are not happy with making a Million $ anymore they want BILLIONS. Furthermore, they are making those BILLIONS by cutting American jobs/ wages and out sourcing them to foreign countries. When all these corporations (Carnival Crops, Fords, GM, Chrysler, and any other corporations out sourcing jobs) finally out source all the American jobs out of this country, who is going to buy their products? WHO I ASK...........! Nobody, they will have no jobs/ money to buy any of the products. If and when they bring these job back to america they expect american's to do the job at half the money they were doing it before. Corporate Greed is what is killing this country, and a long with too much spending on capital hill. You my friend must not be in a position to have your job out sourced, or you are part of corporate america one of the two. Have your employer come up to you and say "sorry we are shipping your job over seas" and not only that "your going to train them before we do so"

 

*stepping off the soap box*

That's why it is called Capitalism.......the company does not owe anyone anything......except the shareholders.....:cool:

I won't dispute what the Poster I've partially quoted says but here's another perspective.

 

I don't "blame" Carnival at all for outsourcing their IT, and doing whatever else they have to, to cut costs and boot profits.

 

What they are doing is responding to their shareholders, who are fiscal quarter after fiscal quarter, demanding a better return on their investment. More is never enough for us the shareholders, we have to have more plus 10% next year.

 

And if we don't get higher dividends, higher stock values we'll just sell our Carnival shares and move the investment elsewhere.

 

All Carnival is trying to do is keep the shareholders invested in the Company by providing the returns demanded.

 

Change is inevitable in todays world, even more so in the IT field.

As much as I can - I try to support local grocery stores where the money stays locally, I try to support the local farmers and buy items from them, etc... Do I pay more for these items, yes - but to me, it is worth it as I am supporting a neighbor.

I think many of us would prefer to support companies that employ our neighbors as opposed to those across the world. This is probably an oxymoron as cruise companies do their best to not employ Americans onboard but at least I knew the head quarters were staffed with Americans. Would I pay more for this - yes, I would. I think less of a company when they outsource jobs like this.

In my wanderings around the internet, this is a hot topic that has people really ticked off. Certain businesses have been targeted for boycotts who have participated in outsourcing - Disney is one of them. It looks like the new tactic is for people to boycott businesses who practice this kind of stuff. Glad I'm not a stockholder in Carnival because they are going to take a hit from this - just like Target, the NFL and lately Kellogg's. People are wising up and sticking it to corporations who play dirty.

*Stepping on soap box, clearing throat*

 

This is not just business and nothing more:mad:. This is called "CORPORATE GREED" corporations are not happy with making a Million $ anymore they want BILLIONS. Furthermore, they are making those BILLIONS by cutting American jobs/ wages and out sourcing them to foreign countries. When all these corporations (Carnival Crops, Fords, GM, Chrysler, and any other corporations out sourcing jobs) finally out source all the American jobs out of this country, who is going to buy their products? WHO I ASK...........! Nobody, they will have no jobs/ money to buy any of the products. If and when they bring these job back to america they expect american's to do the job at half the money they were doing it before. Corporate Greed is what is killing this country, and a long with too much spending on capital hill. You my friend must not be in a position to have your job out sourced, or you are part of corporate america one of the two. Have your employer come up to you and say "sorry we are shipping your job over seas" and not only that "your going to train them before we do so".:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

*stepping off the soap box*

I agree it's corporate greed, but it's called business. By cruising on any Carnival line, we are actually endorsing what they're doing. I'd cancel this upcoming Princess cruise - but it's paid for in full and there's no cancelling without losing all my money. I'm not willing to do that but rest assured this may be my last cruise on any Carnival owned line.

I'm retired, but I can still vote with my pocket book if I don't like the way a company is doing business or how they are treating their employees. I've been outsourced before so don't think I don't know what it's like to lose my job to someone less capable. It's called "bottom line." Carnival has their employees by the you know what. The employees need to start howling, take to the internet - social media. Get the public on their side and bring Carnival down. As I mentioned above, Target, the NFL, and Kelloggs is taking it in the shorts - there's a backlash going on and these companies are backing up because the public doesn't like the way they are doing business. Money talks.