Inspectors caught Carnival crew hiding dirty conditions

Question for you (since you are the most knowledgeable person on the board about these inspections) is ever inspection a top-to-bottom 100% every time or is a spot inspection that may cover some percentage of the "list"?

Holland Americas Eurodam has received 100% for 13 x in a row

Sorry misunderstood your post. I would imagine its a complete inspection each time. The Inspectors have a detailed checklist to review. Ships are usually reviewed 2x a year ...sometimes less. Ships have 30-60 days to respond (in writing) to deficiencies. If you look at ships responses...many times everything is addressed/fixed within a couple days of the report. So they jump on it immediately...which they should. Inspectors then reinspect ship to confirm the deficiencies have been fixed/addressed

I must say that health and safety are my primary considerations when choosing a vacation. To that end, I will never sail on Carnival again, and Silverseas is a no for me too. We love to sail and have introduced many friends and co-workers to sailing, so my hope is that the management of the other lines will take note and assure that this will never happen on their lines. I thank these boards for giving us a place to put forth our views.

Interesting. Now I'm curious to know how many ships (and which ships) from the other cruise lines (RCL, NCL, Celebrity, etc.) have failed health inspections within the past few months.

In the past 12 months, Carnival has 4 failed CDC inspections. Carnival has 10 failures all time. Standards seem to have slipped recently. In comparison, NCL has had 2 failures all time. RCI and MSC has had 1 failure each all time. Celebrity has had 2 failures all time and Disney has never failed a CDC inspection.

4 Failures in a year shows something. Cutting corners and getting lazy at the expense of passenger health is not cool.

We sailed our final Carnival cruise last February. I come on this thread every once in awhile, hoping to see that things are improving (for our friend's sake), and sadly it seems to continue it's decent.

I would advise loyalists to price shop on Journey, Alaska, and Bermuda cruises. Alaska in particular, tends to be price higher than all the premium lines, let alone NCL and RCL. Why pay extra money for this?

Christine should be all over this, it is ultimately her responsibility.

Wonder if they will do a press release saying what changes they are making to prevent this from ever happening again.

Was contemplating booking a journey cruise for next year going to the canal but will hold off for now.

I have been on one cruise ever - the Carnival Liberty and was disturbed by all the maintenance issues - how hard is it to replace a light bulb? Then I got sick towards the end of the cruise - now trying other lines. As a side note - I am an Industrial Engineer so I probably notice quality/maintenance issues far more then the average person since it is part of my job.

Someone shared the link to the inspection reports - here is the average of most recent scores for each ship from the last 24 months. As an IE - of course I had to make a pivot table!

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In the past 12 months, Carnival has 4 failed CDC inspections. Carnival has 10 failures all time. Standards seem to have slipped recently. In comparison, NCL has had 2 failures all time. RCI and MSC has had 1 failure each all time. Celebrity has had 2 failures all time and Disney has never failed a CDC inspection.

 

4 Failures in a year shows something. Cutting corners and getting lazy at the expense of passenger health is not cool.

I do not question the accuracy of your statistics but am curious where you found the data about the number of failures all time. I would have thought there would be more failures.

Wonder if they will do a press release saying what changes they are making to prevent this from ever happening again.

Was contemplating booking a journey cruise for next year going to the canal but will hold off for now.

I would doubt very much they would do a press conference on this. What I would expect would be a response to findings at the management level that rolled it's way down to enhanced procedures probably to the agent community to their renewed effort to maintain the highest of standards. While it sounds like malarkey' date=' if true (and I totally expect that it will be based upon the severity of these) obviously changes need to occur. I would also expect them to be on the front list for inspections for a good period of time.[/color']

I do not question the accuracy of your statistics but am curious where you found the data about the number of failures all time. I would have thought there would be more failures.

You can go to the CDC VSP inspection score page, you can find all the scores going back to 2000. I'm having trouble getting the filter to correctly show only failing scores, but if you have the time, you can count the failures yourself. I did a search for the period of 2014-2016, and there were no failures by any ship during that time. I can't verify the previous poster's count, but if does not sound unreasonable. The vast majority of failures are on ships that have been away from the US, and the ship has let the specifics of USPH procedures in the interim, and this is more frequently with smaller lines and ships that are not frequently in the US.

I went back and pulled all reports for 3 years - the orange ones are below the average. Figured this would provide a bigger data set.

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I went back and pulled all reports for 3 years - the orange ones are below the average. Figured this would provide a bigger data set.

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thanks for the larger data info, It does not make Carnival look good.

You sure get what you paid for I guess.. a cheap cruise and dirty food. (n)

I went back and pulled all reports for 3 years - the orange ones are below the average. Figured this would provide a bigger data set.

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Scoring 90+ is below average? I thought you only need 86 to pass. Any score above is deemed acceptable as per CDC.

Some things that result in 3 points being taken away are somewhat minor and unavoidable. Like a single small fly near an outdoor bar.

 

 

This is untrue. A 3 point deduction is considered a critical deficiency. There are some 5 point deficiencies that can be levied on a cruise ship in the water bunkering and purification areas and rightfully so considering that "bad" water is the cause for so much disease. Most 3 point violations are in the food prep/storage/handling areas of the vessel. Don't take these inspections or the scores lightly. The vessel sanitation program was seriously revamped a few years ago and it was in collaboration with the Cruise Industry along with ship yards that contract to build these liners. Collectively, everything in the regulation was developed with WHO input and agreed upon by all. A failure is simply the result of laziness, poor supervision, cost cutting or a combination of all. A guests health should never be put into jeopardy. Read some of these reports in detail and it might open up your eyes a bit. A buzzing fly indeed.

Some things that result in 3 points being taken away are somewhat minor and unavoidable. Like a single small fly near an outdoor bar.

 

 

This is untrue. A 3 point deduction is considered a critical deficiency. There are some 5 point deficiencies that can be levied on a cruise ship in the water bunkering and purification areas and rightfully so considering that "bad" water is the cause for so much disease. Most 3 point violations are in the food prep/storage/handling areas of the vessel. Don't take these inspections or the scores lightly. The vessel sanitation program was seriously revamped a few years ago and it was in collaboration with the Cruise Industry along with ship yards that contract to build these liners. Collectively, everything in the regulation was developed with WHO input and agreed upon by all. A failure is simply the result of laziness, poor supervision, cost cutting or a combination of all. A guests health should never be put into jeopardy. Read some of these reports in detail and it might open up your eyes a bit. A buzzing fly indeed.

 

While what you say is all true, there is a scaling that is done by the inspectors in preparation of the final report. If there is perhaps only one instance of a 3 point violation, the inspectors can scale it down to a 2 or 1. If the violation is repetitive or egregious, then it will remain a 3 point deduction. These scaled down deductions are typically only seen in the corrective action report, which has not been posted yet, so many things that may look like a critical 3-5 point violation from the inspection form, would only be a minor violation in the final report. But, you are correct that the reports are not taken lightly, nor should they be.

An organized effort was made to physically move several containers and trolleys of food equipment, utensils, spices, potentially hazardous food items, raw produce, and decorations to a crew cabin hallway and a crew cabin in order to avoid inspection by VSP staff.

On the same rolling trolley, there was a lexan container with a bag of wine, cocktail sauce, 23 packages of butter, one container of buttermilk, one container of whipping cream, and assorted equipment. The butter had a temperature of 66.4°F.

Inside a crew cabin, three lexan bins were found stored directly on the deck. Bread crisps, produce, raw salmon, spices were found in the lexan bins. Red wine sauce, frozen pork sauce, butter, and cherry tomatoes were stored on top of the lexan bin.

These are some of the deficiencies:mad: in item #13 on the Vistas inspection from Dec 17. They do not sound like paperwork failures to me. The fact that an attempt was made to hide these items from inspecting teams is very troubling

I'm happy to see that the 2 older Carnival Ships (Inspiration and Valor) of which I will be cruising on in September 2018 and December 2019 both received 100% scores from their last inspections and seem to have consistently scored well above the 86% needed to pass over a span of many years. Yay for me.

I just finished reviewing the report. And from what I read I don't think there is much to be worried about. A lot of deductions were for on timely paperwork. Then I saw one an issue of dirty cups and a sealed box of cups on the floor. That was listed 4 times. And a report of a food cart that the bowls of food were wrapped in plastic wrapp but the cart wasn't covered. The Vista failed with a 79. Each infraction is worth 3 points. The two for paperwork alone. Which although against the rules set up by the CDC but isn't really an issue that would effect anyone on board. Would turn the falling 79 into a passing 85

 

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The issue of dirty cups etc. in a crew area passage (i.e. non food area) was actually cited six times. Perhaps you missed the import. The crew moved a bunch of stuff that they had to know violated the regulations to an area they did not expect the inspectors to visit. I.E. they actively with forethought sought to avoid violations. Put another way, they cheated.

I think that action alone qualifies for a ZERO score on the report. The inspectors were much more lenient and simply docked the ship for each actual violation of regulations.

The issue of dirty cups etc. in a crew area passage (i.e. non food area) was actually cited six times. Perhaps you missed the import. The crew moved a bunch of stuff that they had to know violated the regulations to an area they did not expect the inspectors to visit. I.E. they actively with forethought sought to avoid violations. Put another way, they cheated.

 

 

 

I think that action alone qualifies for a ZERO score on the report. The inspectors were much more lenient and simply docked the ship for each actual violation of regulations.

Maybe they should be shot and then fired. I did not know you worked for the Health department, or had expertise in their scoring, or we can let the expert do what they think is correct.

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Maybe they should be shot and then fired. I did not know you worked for the Health department, or had expertise in their scoring, or we can let the expert do what they think is correct.

Wow that is harsh. I have to concur with his sentiment. If found to be cheating, then a zero score or a no sail report should be justified. An inspection is only as good as its team members and the fact that some of the crew tried to hide obvious violations so a passing grade could be achieved is troubling. How many deficiencies were successfully hidden from this inspection team? And of those hidden deficiencies, how many of them would or could affect you or a loved one on your next cruise?

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Maybe they should be shot and then fired. I did not know you worked for the Health department, or had expertise in their scoring, or we can let the expert do what they think is correct.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow that is harsh. I have to concur with his sentiment. If found to be cheating, then a zero score or a no sail report should be justified. An inspection is only as good as its team members and the fact that some of the crew tried to hide obvious violations so a passing grade could be achieved is troubling. How many deficiencies were successfully hidden from this inspection team? And of those hidden deficiencies, how many of them would or could affect you or a loved one on your next cruise?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I certainly got the sentiment, I guess my point was that maybe we should let experts handle this. Obviously there is cause for concern and it needs to be dealt with. Knee jerk reactions usually are not the best course of action. Has there ever been a zero score in the history of this reporting? Has any loved one been harmed?

Since you asked, my thoughts are let experts deal with the issues. They are trained to do just that. What would you envision the affect of a ZERO does? Is it not a better recourse to understand what was done correctly, what was not and let the system determine how to best take corrective actions?

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I would doubt very much they would do a press conference on this. What I would expect would be a response to findings at the management level that rolled it's way down to enhanced procedures probably to the agent community to their renewed effort to maintain the highest of standards. While it sounds like malarkey, if true (and I totally expect that it will be based upon the severity of these) obviously changes need to occur. I would also expect them to be on the front list for inspections for a good period of time.

Actually I said press release not conference. Would like to see details on what they will do to prevent this in the future. In 20 years of sailing with Carnival never been as disturbed at them as I am now.

Actually I said press release not conference. Would like to see details on what they will do to prevent this in the future. In 20 years of sailing with Carnival never been as disturbed at them as I am now.

So you know why I got a"meets requirement" in reading comprehension now. My answer is the same. If you are that disturbed' date=' I wonder what they could say that would alter your thoughts? Let's see what happens....

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So you know why I got a"meets requirement" in reading comprehension now. My answer is the same. If you are that disturbed, I wonder what they could say that would alter your thoughts? Let's see what happens....

 

 

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Speaking for myself, I think it would be the right thing for corporate to come out and admit failings, say they are reviewing all their processes and procedures, they will provide whatever equipment is necessary to their crew going forward, empower onboard management to make the right choices, and make a sincere commitment to the paying guests and do the best possible job to prevent this from happening again.

I think that's smart business and something that we deserve.