HAL strategy wrong? Go upmarket, better than going down market?

[barante]

I am no particular fan on HAL. But we own stock in Carnival -- and the stock is doing mighty fine: the price is strong, dividends are good and so are stockholders' benefits. But overall, I think Princess may have a better product. Recently, however, we have booked three long cruises on HAL because the itineraries are unsurpassable and prices right. So I am not complaining.

I am glad that HAL is leaving the beaten path destinations to others.

Next week, we'll be off to Rio to start a 28-day cruise that will take us to Manaus, up and down the Amazon, 11 other Brazilian destinations, Devil's Island, Barbados,.Aruba and a couple of other Caribbean stops. Cheapest inside: about $2,200.

In October, we'll take an equally long HAL TA from Venice, which we combine with a cruise of Turkey and Greece.

For next March, we are eyeing a HAL cruise from Auckland, New Zealand, to Australia, Pacific Islands, Hawaii, to Vancouver. Check the price and be amazed.

In each case HAL has the best itinerary (for us) and price.

We wish we could do more. Look at this, for example (Oct. 2011):

Holland America Line-ms Maasdam

Fort Lauderdale, Tortola, Saint Maarten, Tenerife/Canary Islands, Las Palmas/Canary Islands, Arrecife, Casablanca, Gibraltar, Almeria, Barcelona, Palma de Mallorca, Rome/Civitavecchia, Sorrento, Naples, Palermo, Cagliari, Tangier, Cadiz, Portimao, Lisbon, Funchal, Half Moon Cay, Fort Lauderdale

If you check the details, you'll see that the ship overnights in several ports. Makes my mouth water.

I'm not sure what all the handwringing is all about. We will have fun on our HAL cruises, in comfort and relative elegance. If problems occur, we swallow hard. Never had a bad cruise yet.

[HappyInVan]

Conclusion is up at

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1375756

[barante]

Goes to show that there is a market everyone. Also, that some of us are satisfied with a Camry experience vs. Lexus and more.

Later this week, we'll begin our first HAL cruise in years. I'll report what we find out.

Edited March 14, 2011 by barante

[kazu]

Goes to show that there is a market everyone. Also, that some of us are satisfied with a Camry experience vs. Lexus and more.

Later this week, we'll begin our first HAL cruise in years. I'll report what we find out.

 

have a good time and a great cruise :)

[HappyInVan]

Link to review section

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=80221

[HappyInVan]

The Seven Seas Navigator report is up.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1384503

[Palmetto Lady]

You may be very disappointed on your next cruise too. We did a 31 day Hawaii/SP cruise on the Rotterdam in Sept-Oct. There was a lot of loud music in the Mix at night, cargo pants and t-shirts on casual nights and no jackets on formal night at late seating.

 

HAL and other lines who lower their prices to rock bottom to fill the ship will always this type of problem whether the cruise is 7 days or seven weeks.

 

Were we on the same cruise????

[HappyInVan]

Posted the conclusion of the Seven Seas Navigator tour.

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1384503

 

 

A small ship cruise is a premium experience. From the lack of queues (usually) to the better internet access to the fresher/better food.

 

 

On excursions, it often means that the catamaran is only half full (Silver Cloud) and that you know most of the people in the group.

 

 

Then, there is better service. On the Silver Cloud, the personalized service can go to extremes. But, the serious pampering is there.

 

 

Being small doesn't mean that entertainment has to be dull. The Navigator shows what can be done if there is a will.

 

 

The bottom line is that mass cruise companies are cost effective. Entertainment and food choices may be better. But, it is a quality versus quantity issue.

 

 

As I had suspected, it just doesn't make sense to pay up for the mass cruise ships. I would rather travel in steerage on a luxury ship than a deluxe suite on a mass cruise ship.

 

 

Of course, there are compensations of traveling on a mass cruise ship. Once, the Navigator was docked next to the Westerdam. I watched as a crew member sttod by the gangway dressed in a pirate outfit. You could pose with him for the Westerdam photographer. Grrrhhh!

[Hawaiidan]

The airlines are doiing this economy, economy plus, business, first class.

 

I sail Holland for the traditional, the value for the dollar and the size of the ship. As someone pointed out the 3,000 a week passenger and the $600 a week passenger both enjoy about the same perks. Very slight differences. When I want luxury I will sail a luxury ship. I find it foolish to be a big spender on Holland because the return is so small on the dollar.

 

Holland could go to having ecompmy passengers fare anf they are confined to specific areas of the ship and limited services, minimal services change the sheets once a week, same with towells. limited buffet. etc

where the suite passenger and superiour cabins say the top 30 %would get exclusive access to the prime lounges and economy passengers would be barred, have liquor included and be exempt from speciality restauraunt charges. and have half the ship as exclisive to them and them alone.

In this way you could have a niche within a niche by giving passengers to high end passengers hi end benifits that the others could not use or enjoy. The Cunard thing is a classic case.... bring it back:rolleyes:

[iancal]

Hawaiidan..I have to agree with you. We sail on HAL because of the value and because of the itineries. If we decide to 'push to the boat out' we look at the premium/high end lines because we find them to be a better overall value (for our tastes/preferences) at that level of spend.

Edited March 29, 2011 by iancal

[iceman93]

I find it foolish to be a big spender on Holland because the return is so small on the dollar.

 

One could just as easily say, "I find it foolish to spend more to sail luxury lines because the return is so small on the dollar."

 

For the things *I* currently care about, HAL delivers. And since I like to be in a large cabin and to have some extra pampering, I book penthouses. I agree that even folks in the inside cabins get an elegant experience, good food, outstanding and personal service, a variety of activities, interesting itineraries, and all of the other things that folks seem to love about HAL.

 

For the same money on Regent or Crystal or whatever, I'd be in a tiny cabin. And the extra services provided simply don't matter to me at this point in my life. For me, it would be foolish to make that trade.

 

I don't bregrudge anyone else, in a different circumstance, who chooses to prioritize differently. And I don't understand why some posters here think that what works for them should work for everyone else.

[HappyInVan]

One could just as easily say, "I find it foolish to spend more to sail luxury lines because the return is so small on the dollar."

 

...For the same money on Regent or Crystal or whatever, I'd be in a tiny cabin. And the extra services provided simply don't matter to me at this point in my life. For me, it would be foolish to make that trade.

 

 

 

There are many different perspectives. You are certainly welcome to your opinion. The point is that you should experience the luxury cruises before writing them off.

 

I have tried HAL, Silversea and RSS. I speak from the basis of knowledge. I understand some of the nuances. I know what really works for me.

[SmokinActuary]

What options does a family with a young teenager have if they want to sail with a little sophistication and I don't want to spend the coin that Chrystal demands?

 

I think HAL fits the bill for us.

[HappyInVan]

What options does a family with a young teenager have if they want to sail with a little sophistication and I don't want to spend the coin that Chrystal demands?

 

I think HAL fits the bill for us.

 

Actually, I think that the Navigator is more family friendly than the HAL ships I have sailed on. There is the dining, the entertainment options, and there is a terrific youth program on board. For example, there were two full time youth co-ordinators (Jenn and Tara) to look after 5 young kids and entertain half a dozen young teens.

 

There is also more elbow room on board the premium ships while encouraging social interation. I would look at RSS if I had a family.

[kazu]

The airlines are doiing this economy, economy plus, business, first class.

 

I sail Holland for the traditional, the value for the dollar and the size of the ship. As someone pointed out the 3,000 a week passenger and the $600 a week passenger both enjoy about the same perks. Very slight differences. When I want luxury I will sail a luxury ship. I find it foolish to be a big spender on Holland because the return is so small on the dollar.

 

Holland could go to having ecompmy passengers fare anf they are confined to specific areas of the ship and limited services, minimal services change the sheets once a week, same with towells. limited buffet. etc

where the suite passenger and superiour cabins say the top 30 %would get exclusive access to the prime lounges and economy passengers would be barred, have liquor included and be exempt from speciality restauraunt charges. and have half the ship as exclisive to them and them alone.

In this way you could have a niche within a niche by giving passengers to high end passengers hi end benifits that the others could not use or enjoy. The Cunard thing is a classic case.... bring it back:rolleyes:

 

and that is exactly what another cruise line is looking at doing - giving x number of rooms access to special areas of the ship - just saw their ad the other day. I was trying to figure out how special it was with 70 cabins getting this level?

[pms4104]

The airlines are doiing this economy, economy plus, business, first class.

 

I sail Holland for the traditional, the value for the dollar and the size of the ship. As someone pointed out the 3,000 a week passenger and the $600 a week passenger both enjoy about the same perks. Very slight differences. When I want luxury I will sail a luxury ship. I find it foolish to be a big spender on Holland because the return is so small on the dollar.

 

Holland could go to having ecompmy passengers fare anf they are confined to specific areas of the ship and limited services, minimal services change the sheets once a week, same with towells. limited buffet. etc

where the suite passenger and superiour cabins say the top 30 %would get exclusive access to the prime lounges and economy passengers would be barred, have liquor included and be exempt from speciality restauraunt charges. and have half the ship as exclisive to them and them alone.

In this way you could have a niche within a niche by giving passengers to high end passengers hi end benifits that the others could not use or enjoy. The Cunard thing is a classic case.... bring it back:rolleyes:

Seems HAL currently is not able or unwilling to enforce some in-place policies (dress, especially on formal nights, diapers/swimmies in the pools, no unsupervised children in aft pools), so I cannot fathom how they would even begin to enforce prime service areas vs. steerage.

[jiminyC_fan]

Holland could go to having ecompmy passengers fare anf they are confined to specific areas of the ship and limited services, minimal services change the sheets once a week, same with towells. limited buffet. etc

where the suite passenger and superiour cabins say the top 30 %would get exclusive access to the prime lounges and economy passengers would be barred, have liquor included and be exempt from speciality restauraunt charges. and have half the ship as exclisive to them and them alone.

In this way you could have a niche within a niche by giving passengers to high end passengers hi end benifits that the others could not use or enjoy. The Cunard thing is a classic case.... bring it back:rolleyes:

 

Anyone picturing the Titanic like me? Not an idea for me. I don't believe in segregating "classes" of people.

[SmokinActuary]

Anyone picturing the Titanic like me? Not an idea for me. I don't believe in segregating "classes" of people.

 

Unless Kate Winslet is involved.

[bepsf]

Anyone picturing the Titanic like me? Not an idea for me. I don't believe in segregating "classes" of people.

 

Really?

Whether you believe in it or not, it's been done for millenia - Take for example Air Travel:

Some folks fly in Coach, others in Business and yet others in First...

...and better yet are the folks who fly on private jets and don't even have to go through airport security.

Then there's the tax code: Certain classes of folks pay a larger percentage of their incomes - others classes pay less, and still others pay practically nothing (Can you say "Tax Loopholes"?)

Neighborhoods, Cars, Stores, Restaurants, Medical Care, Political Influence, Schools, Banks, Careers - even Weddings and Funerals: Like it or not, we live in a class-driven society where not everyone can have, afford or attain everything that someone else can have.

[iceman93]

There are many different perspectives. You are certainly welcome to your opinion. The point is that you should experience the luxury cruises before writing them off.

 

I have tried HAL, Silversea and RSS. I speak from the basis of knowledge. I understand some of the nuances. I know what really works for me.

 

Likewise. I have sailed RSSC and HAL, and am trying DCL this fall. Of course I have not sailed on every cruise line, so I cannot say from personal experience exactly what would and would not work for me on each. But based on my limited personal experience as well as the research I can do (including places like CC), I can make my own educated decision on which cruise line to give my business to.

 

Just as you have, obviously. And I don't think you were one of the posters calling it "foolish" to book a suite on HAL. You recognize that different products can meet different consumers' needs.

[HappyInVan]

Likewise. I have sailed RSSC and HAL...

 

Sorry! Didn't see any RSS cruises on your cruise list?

[iceman93]

Sorry! Didn't see any RSS cruises on your cruise list?

 

It's the very first one. Old data, certainly, but I have at least experienced the product.

[Nasmas]

I guess it's what your looking for. I've never sailed anything but HAL and the reason? I'm afraid it won't be as nice. We've only had one 'bad' cruise and it was the wrong time of the year. Spring break and too many rowdy kids on the ship. The rest we're pleased with. We always book a suite, usually SS, because its bigger. We enjoy the room and the balcony alot. And, spend a lot of time on the balcony. Its the best place for morning coffee. As far as segregating passengers, I don't like the idea at all.

[iancal]

With 15 odd ships to fill (and more, larger ones about to be announced), thousands of berths to fill, and with 7 day inside rates as low as $500/600. it is fairly obvious where HAL is going. Mass market. Get 'em board and make sure they spend.

[centuryguy]

My wife and I booked our first cruise on HAL on the Eurodam leaving in October. We have sailed previously on Princess (Crown and Caribbean ships). We simply wanted to try HAL. They have sent us numerous offers and admittedly customer service indicated that they are trying to bring us to the HAL side. I suppose we fit their demographics somewhat, 45-50 years old, no kids, good jobs, vacation time, and disposable income. We've also not yet sailed enough to be really loyal to one company. HAL did wrangle a little more money out of us since we booked a verandah; we have always had an inside cabin previously.

 

After talking to people who have sailed on HAL we hope that it will be a bit more refined than Princess overall. The Eurodam looks like it's about 1000 people smaller than the Crown or Caribbean Princess ships, so we're hoping that will be a good thing.

 

We're looking for peace and quiet more than anything, and service is very important. We're not that interested in the casino, shows, etc. Cruise food is not always equal gourmet, so we'll wait and see how HAL food compares. It is important that a place exists where we can go at night and simply enjoy a few drinks in a relatively refined environment.

 

I think we're the type people HAL is trying to attract. A cruising is something my wife and I finally have the income to afford and we're willing to pay a little more money for what we want, but we're certainly not in the Seaborne crowd. In reality though, the Seaborne demographic is probably somewhat limited, so I don't think HAL will ever be able to compete with them one on one.