HAL strategy wrong? Go upmarket, better than going down market?

[iancal]

I think the comment about the difference between how long term cruisers and how fairly recent cruisers view HAL is very perceptive. We fall into the latter category...not very many HAL cruises under our belts so we do not have any warm and fuzzy feelings about HAL-or any other cruise line for that matter. While we respect the comments of others, we just do not see any differences in the level of service, food, etc between HAL and one or two other lines that we frequent. If anything, some of the comments about engineering issues on HAL's older/smaller ships and post drydock issues, have tended to point us in the direction of other ships-even after we have been predisposed to try one of those smaller HAL ships.

[Philip217]

.....and the biggie for me and many others, a luxury line like Regent makes sailing solo more affordable -- I have not seen one reduced single supplement on HAL - on luxury lines you can get single supps for max 75% all the way down to a mere 10% -- big savings for a solo traveler that would be paying 200% for a suite on HAL!

 

heidik,

 

Great statement.

I almost believed you - until I saw your future cruises listed.

Jan 2011 - Princess

March 2011 - HAL

May 2011 - Celebrity

 

It appears that the "biggie" for you with Regent is not quite big enough to convince you to actually sail on their ships anytime soon.

[ironin]

.....and the biggie for me and many others, a luxury line like Regent makes sailing solo more affordable -- I have not seen one reduced single supplement on HAL - on luxury lines you can get single supps for max 75% all the way down to a mere 10% -- big savings for a solo traveler that would be paying 200% for a suite on HAL!

 

Heidik: Do you book suites only? Are single supplements for luxury lines as low as 10% for comparable sized suites? As I'm sure you know, HAL's single supplements for cabins other than suites begin at about 150%, far less than almost all of their immediate competitors at 200%. Just curious as to which luxury lines you have discovered with such low single supplements for comparable suites. Thanks in advance.

[heidik]

Heidik: Do you book suites only? Are single supplements for luxury lines as low as 10% for comparable sized suites? As I'm sure you know, HAL's single supplements for cabins other than suites begin at about 150%, far less than almost all of their immediate competitors at 200%. Just curious as to which luxury lines you have discovered with such low single supplements for comparable suites. Thanks in advance.

 

I book deluxe suites on HAL to get the "luxury perks" -- you get all of these, and more on all the luxury lines.....Seabourn has 50%, Crystal starts at 35%, Oceania 25% (although not considered "luxury" but premium), Silversea has a 10% offer going -- all of the luxury sites have a page dedicated to their single supplement pricing -- I do not see this on HAL for any of the suites where one can receive the "perks" offered on the luxury line

Edited January 19, 2011 by heidik

[kazu]

interesting, I had looked at Regent (they keep sending me stuff), but unless I went to a suite (which is what we are used to), the rooms were much smaller than HAL's and even then, would be smaller.

 

When I compared their itinerary to the Prisendam, there was no match. Prisendam was far more interesting & unique. I was quite surprised.

 

Prisendam works out cheaper too when i do my apples to apples thing, so i chose the Prisendam for the itinerary first and even though the price is steep, the price too.

 

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Please come back to the board and give us a comparison and review. Would love to hear it.

 

Have a great cruise.

[ironin]

interesting, I had looked at Regent (they keep sending me stuff), but unless I went to a suite (which is what we are used to), the rooms were much smaller than HAL's and even then, would be smaller.

 

When I compared their itinerary to the Prisendam, there was no match. Prisendam was far more interesting & unique. I was quite surprised.

 

Prisendam works out cheaper too when i do my apples to apples thing, so i chose the Prisendam for the itinerary first and even though the price is steep, the price too.

 

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Please come back to the board and give us a comparison and review. Would love to hear it.

 

Have a great cruise.

 

Kazu: Like you, when I've checked into the luxury lines, most of the itineraries seemed relatively pedestrian to me. I mistakenly expected the smaller ships would take advantage of the ability to go different places. They rarely do. It seems that their customers are happy going to the same places as most mass market lines. Disclaimer: YMMV - JMO.

 

Heidik: Thanks for the quick response. While I agree that there can be definite advantages to sailing aboard a luxury line, comparing the apple offered by one to the orange offered by HAL doesn't work for me.

Edited January 19, 2011 by ironin

[TahoeTraveler]

Deleted

Edited January 19, 2011 by TahoeTraveler

[TahoeTraveler]

interesting, I had looked at Regent (they keep sending me stuff), but unless I went to a suite (which is what we are used to), the rooms were much smaller than HAL's and even then, would be smaller.

The regular verandah cabins on Regent actually are larger than those on HAL. The verandah cabins on Regent's ships are 301 - 306 square feet. Those on the Prinsendam are 221 - 273 square feet, according to HAL's website. In fact, DH and I have agreed that we will stick with the SC suites on HAL, but can easily do a "regular" balcony or even oceanview on Regent, simply because of the size of their cabins.

Edited January 19, 2011 by TahoeTraveler

[HappyInVan]

Happy, we got off Regent's Mariner last week (our first cruise with them, after cruising only HAL recently), so I can provide a good comparison between HAL and Regent. In my opinion, Regent blows HAL out of the water in terms of service, passenger demographics, furnishings and decor, ship size in relation to number of passengers, and general ambience. However, I'd have to call it a wash in regards to food, entertainment, and value received for money paid. Please feel free to email me at tamikobold at hughes dot net if you have any questions or would like further details.

 

 

Thanks Tahoe! I'm glad that RSS impressed you. Please do post (for everyone) a review of the Mariner in the reviews section. We will surely enjoy listening to your experience. Thank You!

 

 

I would have to agree with Heidik about the single supplement. Silversea has a separate page about low single supplements. Note that there are very good deals even on the Spirit (their latest and greatest).

 

 

http://www.silversea.com/specialoffers/?specialoffer=7707

 

 

 

 

I think that this is the right way to go. It is better for a company to fill their cabins with singles (who pay more) than with last minute deals (margin pricing). Companies that use last minute deals encourage their regulars to expect lower prices. Inevitably, margin pricing lowers the average price in the long run.

[FrankNJ]

We have never sailed Regent , and we have never sailed Carnival . I think on Carnival we would dislike the loud , drunk crowd and on Regent we might not like the snobs .

 

We love Hal . And if anyone from Hal is reading this , It's the crew that makes the difference . Don't change that .

From my experience Royal C tries hard but doesn't quite make it . Princess is OK but the food and crew are inferior to Hal.

 

Might try Celebrity one day but have a feeling they don't have the crew like Hal.

All just MHO.

[HAL4ME]

I am new to HAL and booked on the Zaandam over Xmas and New Years for Dec 23rd/11 30 days from Sydney to Hong Kong and couldn't believe the price difference between an Outside CAT H pricing vs a Veranda Suite (nice wording but loosk to be a BAlcony cabin to me). The pricing was exactly double which was $7450.00 for two people vs $14500.00.

Can someone tell me in there honest opeinion if the price difference is really worth it or should I hope that the "upgrade ferry" sprays some pixy dust on our booking in hopes of getting an upgrade?

We've done Princess for almost 10 years and left them 3.5 years ago when the product was getting so run down and cut back etc and went to RCCL where there ships were a lot fun but the food was a "dogs breakfast" in all Dining venues except Chops and Portofinos....honestly I ate better in college than on there cruise ships!

I am really hoping that HAL is a much better product, better quality, attention to detail and service. We will probably cruise HAL much sooner than this December but for now taht is all we have booked. We never cruise HAL before because we were always told they were a "floating nursing home" and everybody went to bed at 9:00pm. Now that we are 45 and 43 I guess we will be joining that CLUB soon enough!

[TahoeTraveler]

We have never sailed Regent , and we have never sailed Carnival . I think on Carnival we would dislike the loud , drunk crowd and on Regent we might not like the snobs .

 

We love Hal . And if anyone from Hal is reading this , It's the crew that makes the difference . Don't change that .

From my experience Royal C tries hard but doesn't quite make it . Princess is OK but the food and crew are inferior to Hal.

 

Might try Celebrity one day but have a feeling they don't have the crew like Hal.

All just MHO.

Oh, my goodness, if you haven't ever cruised Regent, please don't assume that the passengers are snobs. Quite the opposite is true. I have found many, many more "snobs" in the Neptune Lounge on HAL than I saw on Regent's Mariner. In fact, I didn't run across one single person on the Mariner who was anything but friendly, but I cannot count the number of times I have heard the poor concierge in the Neptune Lounge being berated or harrassed by someone because they can't get a spa appointment when they want one, or some other minor thing is not to their liking.

 

Just because someone has paid more for a cruise doesn't make them a snob.

[BarryFromBoston]

Since HAL is owned by Carnival, you have to look at it as what is good for Carnival rather than what is good for HAL. Carnival already owns Seaborn, so an upscale of HAL to luxury might just compete with that line. Plus, it would be hard to fill all of HAL's ship on a luxury basis, I would think.

 

But who is to say all HAL ships have to be in the same market? I would think they could look at how The Prinsendam is doing and judge how effective converting other ships to that model might be.

 

Since CCL also owns Cunard, Princess and HAL, it seems to me that with HAL they are just more interested in controlling total overall cruise market share, rather than some specific niche.

 

You appear to be stating as fact that Carnival makes its decisions on all its brands at the corporate level. Actually, they have more brands than you mentioned. Carnival owns Holland America Line, Princess, Carnival Cruises, Cunard, Seabourn, Costa, P&O and Aida Cruises. One of their keys to success is that the various lines are NOT all run out of Carnival Corporation and their marketing group, WLC (World's Leading Cruises). For example, Holland America is headquartered in Seattle.

 

What you are saying is more true of Royal Caribbean/Celebrity (and you can buy a Celebrity cruise on board a Royal Caribbean cruise). Holland America is doing its best to stay in the game, widen its customer base to a broader range of ages, and offer some really nice touches at the same price break as the other guys, that they don't have. But, no, I don't believe decisions on the overall direction of the line are made in any way based on whether or not a given action would be taking away from Seabourn or Princess, or whomever. They are all out for their piece of the pie, taking their best shot at attracting whatever cruisers they can.

[peaches from georgia]

Oh, my goodness, if you haven't ever cruised Regent, please don't assume that the passengers are snobs. Quite the opposite is true. I have found many, many more "snobs" in the Neptune Lounge on HAL than I saw on Regent's Mariner. In fact, I didn't run across one single person on the Mariner who was anything but friendly, but I cannot count the number of times I have heard the poor concierge in the Neptune Lounge being berated or harrassed by someone because they can't get a spa appointment when they want one, or some other minor thing is not to their liking.

 

Just because someone has paid more for a cruise doesn't make them a snob.

Couldn't agree more. Haven't been on Regent, but Seabourn has the friendliest, least snobby, group of pax we have ever sailed with. Luxury has nothing to do with attracting snobs. I have no doubt this is partly because of the size of the ships where you get to know almost everyone, but I also believe it is because every pax gets all the amenities and no one is trying to impress anyone else about anything. (Yes, we sail in HAL Dlx Suites and there certainly is a measure of snobbiness, big fish syndrome, with some of those pax.) The interesting thing is that the most frequent SB pax rarely had booked the largest cabins. No advantage to it as all cabins (all suites) are gorgeous, beautifully appointed, and every pax on every deck gets all the amenities and no one is treated differently than anyone else. There is no class consciousness of any kind. Great crew and I never saw one pax rude to any crew member or any other pax for that matter. So don't equate luxury lines with snobs- exactly the opposite is true.

[iancal]

We sailed on Carnival (Spirit) once. No, there was no wild, drunken, loud, or misbehaved crowd. We had wonderful tablemates. In fact we found the MDR food, the service, and the cabin experience almost identical to what we have had on HAL and Princess. The buffet was not as good but we seldom do buffet so it was not an issue. And the poolside experience and most definately the poolside/bar service was far superior to what we have experienced on HAL.

Edited January 20, 2011 by iancal

[MightyQuinn]

I think many of the stereotypes about individual cruise lines (HAL is for old folks, Carnival is for the party crowd, Regent is for snobs) are perpetuated by those who have never sailed on the line in question. Even travel agents, travel writers and industry insiders often don't have first-hand experience to back up their expert opinions. I always consider the source before making a judgment.

[iancal]

Agree about personal experience. We have not been on Regent but I would expect fewer snobs. Most of their cruisers have 'arrived' as it were whereas I suspect that HAL has has much higher percentage of wannabes.

[HAL4ME]

Agree about personal experience. We have not been on Regent but I would expect fewer snobs. Most of their cruisers have 'arrived' as it were whereas I suspect that HAL has has much higher percentage of wannabes.

 

Ohhh no don't say that about HAL! I had so many Princess "Cheerleaders/Wannabee's and Supposed Big shots" that it was just awfull sometimes on Princess ships...I have a cruise booked on the Zaandam this Xmas/New Years for 30 days and I hope it's not full of "wannabees" and stuffy people..if so I'll be pulling the fire alarm somewhere out of camera reach!...hehhehe:eek:

Edited January 20, 2011 by HAL4ME

[Crazy Gramps]

And I just got my Seabourn catalog for the Med.

 

Gramps

[HappyInVan]

Half way thru my Silver Cloud cruise. More good than bad. Astonishingly good value. Have a read.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1375756

[erewhon]

Half way thru my Silver Cloud cruise. More good than bad. Astonishingly good value. Have a read.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1375756

 

 

Thank you for posting this link.

A very enjoyable read.

Will have a look at the Silverseas website.

Hope you continue to enjoy your cruise.

[iancal]

I think that HAL has a great product.

 

But, if they really want to go 'upmarket' then among other things they need to hire back the staff that they laid off or cut back on, fix some of the the inherent engineering issues with their older ships, stop the nonsense of bring ships out of drydock permaturely, and start increasing the spend on provisions to get the food back to the same standard and quality that it was a few years ago.

[rafinmd]

Half way thru my Silver Cloud cruise. More good than bad. Astonishingly good value. Have a read.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1375756

 

To each his own. I'm glad you found something you like.

 

Roy

[Pettifogger]

iancal:

 

I agree that HAL has a great product.

 

I also agree that they should do all of the things you suggest, as and to the extent needed.

 

I differ only in that I tie it to the cruise market cycle. I think any cuts they made at the bottom of the cycle may well have been warranted as a matter of survival (except the demise of the breakfast specials, of course, which went to the heart of the HAL experience), but they should all be restored as conditions improve.

 

I worry that they might equivocate about restoring some of them on the theory that we passengers have done without them long enough that we don't expect them any more.

[vakamalua]

After 17 cruises, we have sailed on just about all the "mass market" cruise lines at least once--Cunard, Carnival, RCCL, Disney, Princess, HAL. We were about to sail Regent but cancelled because of the unrest in the mid-east.

 

We choose a cruise for the ITINERARY, as well as ensuring that the timing and cost is doable for us. I think HAL will do best by continuing to offer interesting itineraries with mid-range ships to appeal to travelers who have done the "usual" and are looking for a quality experience without breaking the bank.