HAL strategy wrong? Go upmarket, better than going down market?

[HappyInVan]

I must sail with a different HAL. The one I sail is not in decline compared to my first cruises with HAL. I also pay substantially less for a better product than I did when I first began cruising.

 

 

Wonderful.

 

I'm sure that prices have come down. Please let us know the areas that HAL has improved on! :)

[Jemima]

Cabins -

More comfortable beds

Robes in all cabins

Towel animals

Stewards work in pairs (more effective and can almost always find one of them)

 

 

Food -

Tastier, more flavorful food (food in 2002 tended to be light on taste & seasoning)

 

MDR -

Open seating - reservation system works well & just showing up works well too

 

Lido -

Dinner has same items or nearly same items as MDR

Meal time range has expanded a bit, but not too much

More use of stations; no more "cafeteria line"

Trays are gone - no more carrying heavy loaded try

 

Other -

Addition of Tamarind on Signature class ships

Addition of the Exploration Cafe

 

Dress code

Updated for the way most people dress & wish to dress

Informal, not understood by most, is long gone

Casual updated to what most people consider nice casual

 

Check-in, shore excursion booking etc.

Online check-in

Check-in a pier very quick

Shore excursions can be booked online

Various items can be pre-purchased online

HAL's website has greatly improved

 

Tipping

Service charge included on bill

 

CD & staff

Everyone has titles & assigned jobs -more effective

Cooking classes and demos

Computer instruction

 

Lifeboat drill

Still at station as it should be, but without the cumbersome jackets

 

Suites (no, I'm not a suite person)

Neptune lounge

Concierge

More suites and suite types on newer ships

Double Mariner days for suites

 

Smoking

Greatly reduced smoking locations

More consistent policies ship to ship

 

Kids' programs

Dedicated locations for children and teen programs

 

 

And many more improvements.

[Bill B]

Cabins -

Towel animals

Towel animals... what towel animals? In twelve cruises (not all on HAL) I've never had a towel animal! Where's my towel animal? I want a towel animal! ;)

[ab0si]

Towel animals... what towel animals? In twelve cruises (not all on HAL) I've never had a towel animal! Where's my towel animal? I want a towel animal! ;)

 

Not to worry, I've amended my will to leave you all my rights past, present and future to any and all "towel animals' inclusive but not limited to terrestrial, extraterrestrial, mythological, and hallucinogenic.

[MightyQuinn]

Towel animals... what towel animals? In twelve cruises (not all on HAL) I've never had a towel animal! Where's my towel animal.

Count your blessings! If you're not careful, you could have a room full of towel critters. And your room steward may tempt you to buy the "how-to" book so you could create these wonders at home! :eek::eek:

[HappyInVan]

Cabins -

More comfortable beds

Robes in all cabins

Towel animals

Stewards work in pairs (more effective and can almost always find one of them)

 

 

Food -

Tastier, more flavorful food (food in 2002 tended to be light on taste & seasoning)

 

 

Impressive!

 

So, what about the problems. What has gotten worse?

[Jemima]

Impressive!

 

So, what about the problems. What has gotten worse?

 

The spa additions on the S and R class ships several years ago are ugly. They block part of the view from the Crow's Nest.

There are a few less items at the salad bar in the Lido, but that is offset by some additions to the lido. (Good additions like the deli with made to order sandwiches.)

Can't think of much else.

The improvements outweigh the few problems.

[Topsham]

Cabins -

More comfortable beds

Robes in all cabins

Towel animals

Stewards work in pairs (more effective and can almost always find one of them)

 

 

Food -

Tastier, more flavorful food (food in 2002 tended to be light on taste & seasoning)

 

MDR -

Open seating - reservation system works well & just showing up works well too

 

Lido -

Dinner has same items or nearly same items as MDR

Meal time range has expanded a bit, but not too much

More use of stations; no more "cafeteria line"

Trays are gone - no more carrying heavy loaded try

 

Other -

Addition of Tamarind on Signature class ships

Addition of the Exploration Cafe

 

Dress code

Updated for the way most people dress & wish to dress

Informal, not understood by most, is long gone

Casual updated to what most people consider nice casual

 

Check-in, shore excursion booking etc.

Online check-in

Check-in a pier very quick

Shore excursions can be booked online

Various items can be pre-purchased online

HAL's website has greatly improved

 

Tipping

Service charge included on bill

 

CD & staff

Everyone has titles & assigned jobs -more effective

Cooking classes and demos

Computer instruction

 

Lifeboat drill

Still at station as it should be, but without the cumbersome jackets

 

Suites (no, I'm not a suite person)

Neptune lounge

Concierge

More suites and suite types on newer ships

Double Mariner days for suites

 

Smoking

Greatly reduced smoking locations

More consistent policies ship to ship

 

Kids' programs

Dedicated locations for children and teen programs

 

 

And many more improvements.

 

 

I would quite happily give up EVERYTHING you noted above to be able to go back 20 years to the old ROTTERDAM where the style and service was superior than it is today!

 

Stephen

[GeriatricNurse]

Cabins -

More comfortable beds

Robes in all cabins

Towel animals

Stewards work in pairs (more effective and can almost always find one of them)

 

 

Food -

Tastier, more flavorful food (food in 2002 tended to be light on taste & seasoning)

 

MDR -

Open seating - reservation system works well & just showing up works well too

 

Lido -

Dinner has same items or nearly same items as MDR

Meal time range has expanded a bit, but not too much

More use of stations; no more "cafeteria line"

Trays are gone - no more carrying heavy loaded try

 

Other -

Addition of Tamarind on Signature class ships

Addition of the Exploration Cafe

 

Dress code

Updated for the way most people dress & wish to dress

Informal, not understood by most, is long gone

Casual updated to what most people consider nice casual

 

Check-in, shore excursion booking etc.

Online check-in

Check-in a pier very quick

Shore excursions can be booked online

Various items can be pre-purchased online

HAL's website has greatly improved

 

Tipping

Service charge included on bill

 

CD & staff

Everyone has titles & assigned jobs -more effective

Cooking classes and demos

Computer instruction

 

Lifeboat drill

Still at station as it should be, but without the cumbersome jackets

 

Suites (no, I'm not a suite person)

Neptune lounge

Concierge

More suites and suite types on newer ships

Double Mariner days for suites

 

Smoking

Greatly reduced smoking locations

More consistent policies ship to ship

 

Kids' programs

Dedicated locations for children and teen programs

 

 

And many more improvements.

 

Why do you think that the removal of trays from the Lido is an "improvement"?:confused: Is it an "improvement" to make numerous trips back & forth to the buffet, while risking loosing your table & having your hot food become cold in the process?:confused: Carrying a "heavy loaded tray" never bothered me! Ah, it doesn't matter, I now bring my own tray!;)

[Jemima]

Why do you think that the removal of trays from the Lido is an "improvement"?:confused: Is it an "improvement" to make numerous trips back & forth to the buffet, while risking loosing your table & having your hot food become cold in the process?:confused: Carrying a "heavy loaded tray" never bothered me! Ah, it doesn't matter, I now bring my own tray!;)

 

We were concerned when HAL did away with trays. How would we carry all those dishes? Would we lose our table if we got up for something else? Would there be enough stewards to carry things? These were needless concerns. They now don't do as many separate dishes. At breakfast my eggs, potatoes and toast all are on the same plate now; not two or three plates. Things move faster because people aren't carrying those cumbersome tray and are just going to the desired stations or areas. We've had no problems with the table. We no longer need help getting the food to a table. One of us had difficulty with the loaded trays, but can easily carry a plate of food.

We also had needless worries about open dining in the MDR. That was before we tried it. Now we much prefer the open dining.

[RuthC]

I would quite happily give up EVERYTHING you noted above to be able to go back 20 years to the old ROTTERDAM where the style and service was superior than it is today!

 

Stephen

And I would be right there with you.

[RuthC]

Things move faster because people aren't carrying those cumbersome tray and are just going to the desired stations or areas.

That statement makes no sense at all. People can move at the same speed whether carrying a tray, or not. And they can carry a tray to stations as easily as not.

Trays, or lack thereof, have nothing to do with speed or stations.

[HappyInVan]

Can't think of much else.

The improvements outweigh the few problems.

 

 

Better beds are good. But, poor temperature control detracts from the cabin experience.

 

Towel animals are cute. But, the leaks in the ceiling can be disconcerting.

 

The Lido's station layout is clever. But, it can be tiring when there is a queue at every station. The lack of a tray means that you have to make several rounds, with significant interruptions in the meal.

 

The food may be less bland. But, everything is in vain when the food is unpalatable.

 

Cooking classes are good. But, other companies have better facilities and enrichment programs!

 

 

Perhaps, you have missed the point raised by myself and others. Many customers do not feel that HAL has delivered on the promises of excellence.

 

 

Some are willing to pay more for a consistent package of quality. I'm willing to pay more to avoid the stress on service staff, food prepared like it should be, decent a/c and no leaks/smells.

 

 

I have no need or desire to be pampered. I do not expect gourmet food on HAL ships. I would be satisfied with consistent three star quality.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Sorry wrong thread :eek:

Edited December 11, 2010 by LAFFNVEGAS

[Taxguy77]

I also agree with one of Alcarondas' very perceptive remarks that premium and traditional become somewhat confused when evaluating HAL, but the graciousness of the staff, which is the biggest difference between HAL and the mass market cruise lines, seems to me to be more premium than traditional.

I too am concerned that, in the future, HAL may not give sufficient attention to that segment of its loyal clientele who would prefer not to have to stop and rest on their way from the dining room at the stern to their cabin near the bow, but I think the recession may have the unexpected benefit of preserving our favorite ships longer than might otherwise have been the case.

 

Sorry to disapoint you, but years ago on NCL the room steward said "Good morning/evening Mr/Mrs XXX" every day. On HAL, and Azamara which is supposedly upscale from HAL, I never met our steward as they didn't have any time to spare.

Love the wording!! On one cruise on a 2400 pax ship, I booked a forward-facing cabin. I barely made it to the cabin on several occaisions, leaning to rest as I wasn't sure if I sat down I could get up again.

Last cruise in a forward cabin AND last on a ship that big.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Sorry to disapoint you, but years ago on NCL the room steward said "Good morning/evening Mr/Mrs XXX" every day. On HAL, and Azamara which is supposedly upscale from HAL, I never met our steward as they didn't have any time to spare.

Love the wording!! On one cruise on a 2400 pax ship, I booked a forward-facing cabin. I barely made it to the cabin on several occaisions, leaning to rest as I wasn't sure if I sat down I could get up again.

Last cruise in a forward cabin AND last on a ship that big.

I have to agree on both of our NCL cruises this past year the crew were amazing. Even on our little two day cruise to no where, we had a Mini Suite and the crew greeted us by name like you stated above the first morning. They could have ignored us because heck we would only be on the ship for two nights but we were treated great, then it was truly a WOW for service when we were actually in a Suite on our 7 night repo cruise. The service and amenities far exceeded almost all of the Suites we had on HAL.

[casamariposa]

I have had nothing but joyful experiences with the cabin stewards on HAL. In fact, I recently met a couple of them who are third generation stewards with HAL...fathers and grandfathers also had been stewards. And they have invariably greeted me by my name on a daily basis when they meet me in the corridor. (Not a bad way to treat a passenger who generally sails in "steerage" for budgetary reasons.)

 

I did, however, almost have a heart attack late one evening when, upon returning to my cabin, I found a HUGE towel-animal MONKEY hanging from a ceiling vent over my bed! I made the stewards promise that they would not disassemble said humongous monkey, and he hung from a picture frame for the rest of my trip! (A little sense of humor is a very good thing.)

[RD64]

One of my favourite HAL perks is the basket in the closet that you place your shoes in for the steward to take away and expertly polish....

 

I am sorry but I do not see why towel animals are such a deal breaker. The first night, on any cruise, on any cruise line, I specifically tell the steward not to waste their tim e making any. Just my two cents...

[snorkler8]

Lowest common denominator? Maybe.

But then how do you account for the wild success of Apple?

It's computers and I-things, are the top priced in general, yet they seem to be the most successful.

 

IMHO that is comparing apples to oranges, no pun intended lol. I know people who will buy their kids an IPOD for Christmas but will never take their kids (or themselves) on a cruise simply because they can't afford it. There is a little bit of difference in spending $$ on and IPOD they will use for many months and a one week $$$$ cruise.

Feel free to educate me if I am wrong...in YHO of course LOL

[schoolinmy3]

IMHO that is comparing apples to oranges, no pun intended lol. I know people who will buy their kids an IPOD for Christmas but will never take their kids (or themselves) on a cruise simply because they can't afford it. There is a little bit of difference in spending $$ on and IPOD they will use for many months and a one week $$$$ cruise.

Feel free to educate me if I am wrong...in YHO of course LOL

 

Vacation memories and the time spent with family - priceless.

iPods break and don't make many memories or bring families together. We have a ton of electronics, computers is my husband's bread and butter so I am not against that either. Also, I am not saying that spending time on a cruise is in any way a necessity. It is not cheap. There are many other ways families can schedule time together - a weekend camping, a day at the beach. But on the other hand spending money on expensive electronics instead of spending time with your children, hmmm that is a mistake. IMHO We have been fortunate enought to be able to take many vacations together as a family and have just recently started cruising. Our first cruise with our kids was to the Mediterranean in May. I am returning next May with our oldest (19) to yet another itinerary in the Mediterranean. We could travel more cheaply on our own but my son had the opportunity to go on a land tour and he chose the cruise. He loved coming back to the boat every evening and having that comfort level of the same bed and the same food. Yet every morning he would wake up and explore a new city. diane

Edited December 12, 2010 by schoolinmy3

[sapper1]

One of my favourite HAL perks is the basket in the closet that you place your shoes in for the steward to take away and expertly polish....

 

I am sorry but I do not see why towel animals are such a deal breaker. The first night, on any cruise, on any cruise line, I specifically tell the steward not to waste their tim e making any. Just my two cents...

Those little towel animals give me the heebie jeebies---especially the monkey hanging from the ceiling as you step inside the cabin door:eek:---or the snake on the bed----maybe I will take a page from your book and tell the steward not to bother. I am sure he has better things to do with his time and I would not miss the little critters.

[snorkler8]

Vacation memories and the time spent with family - priceless.

iPods break and don't make many memories or bring families together. We have a ton of electronics, computers is my husband's bread and butter so I am not against that either. Also, I am not saying that spending time on a cruise is in any way a necessity. It is not cheap. There are many other ways families can schedule time together - a weekend camping, a day at the beach. But on the other hand spending money on expensive electronics instead of spending time with your children, hmmm that is a mistake. IMHO We have been fortunate enought to be able to take many vacations together as a family and have just recently started cruising. Our first cruise with our kids was to the Mediterranean in May. I am returning next May with our oldest (19) to yet another itinerary in the Mediterranean. We could travel more cheaply on our own but my son had the opportunity to go on a land tour and he chose the cruise. He loved coming back to the boat every evening and having that comfort level of the same bed and the same food. Yet every morning he would wake up and explore a new city. diane

 

Oh I hope you didn't misunderstand me! I pick family time over electronics any day of the week! My kids aren't getting an IPOD for Christmas. Thats almost as much as one of those "cheap" 7 day cruises talked about on this forum, just got off one with my kids! :D

I love the experience of cruising and wanted my kids to experience it. They loved it and they will be sad when they are left behind next time. Left behind because its special and expensive. As I walk out the door my parting words will be "Don't cry. I'll bring you home some of my chocolates from turndown service. Study hard and get good grades so you can get a good education and can afford to go again one day! ...XXOO" (Yes I'm a mean mommy...LOL)

[Jade13]

Yes, they are all privately owned. Crystal's shareholders are very strong.

 

 

On the other hand, an investment company (Apollo Investments) owns Oceania and Regent presumably as profit-centers. It's my suspicion that Regent is the weaker company and that Apollo won't rescue Regent/Oceania if they are under attack.

 

 

Oceania and Regent operate ships in the 30,000-60000 ton range.

 

 

Silversea is owned by a family company out of Monaco. It has quietly expanded over the years. It's largest ship is Prinsendam-sized.

 

 

Azamara is owned by RCCL. Cunard and Seabourne come under the Carnival umbrella.

 

 

Cunard operates ships with 2,000+ passengers while Seaborne caters to the 200-passenger market. Oddly, Carnival has no premium line between the 200 and 2000 passenger ships!

 

Thanks for the details. We have been on both SilverSea and Azamara. Azamara was the best cruise ship experience we have ever had and so we are going back on the Quest next year.

[schoolinmy3]

Oh I hope you didn't misunderstand me! I pick family time over electronics any day of the week!

 

I didn't think you meant that at all so no I didn't misunderstand. Was just adding my take on it. ;) I just know SOME parents would rather buy their kids time and attention. We actually like to spend time with them, whether it is on a cruise or just sitting at home watching a movie. Sounds like you are that kind of mom too :D

diane

Edited December 12, 2010 by schoolinmy3

[snorkler8]

I didn't think you meant that at all so no I didn't misunderstand. Was just adding my take on it. ;) I just know SOME parents would rather buy their kids time and attention. We actually like to spend time with them, whether it is on a cruise or just sitting at home watching a movie. Sounds like you are that kind of mom too :D

 

 

Sounds like we think alike! Now lets see if I cave the next time an email comes about a cruise deal too good to pass up lol But for the near future its movies w/ popcorn at home to let our pocketbook recuperate.

So back on topic for this thread, personally I think HAL does an awesome job and will continue to cruise with them. As for the "low life's" the lower fares are attracting, life isn't a bubble and its not going to ruin my cruise. If anything I have a bigger problem with the snobby passengers that make rude remarks/looks to show their disapproval, or worse,demand things of the staff and treat them poorly.