Carnival wants suggestions to Aussify their Spirit!

[cjm66]

Thanks. Guess we'll have to take the plunge and try an Aussie hamburger. Still trying to figure out the bacon and what to compare your bacon to here. Sounds like it has more "meat" and less fat than ours - more like ham maybe?

 

Hi Sparky.

 

Australian bacon is "middle bacon" - it includes the loin (meaty bit) and the streaky "tail". Most bacon in buffets and restaurants will be this combination cut. It is rarely cooked to a crisp although well cooked bacon has nice crusty edges where the fat crisps up without turning the meaty eye into cardboard.

 

 

In some families individuals prefer one end over the other - leading to the old rhyme.

 

Jack Sprat could eat no fat, His wife could eat no lean and so between the two of them they licked the platter clean.

 

Enjoy your food and (I trust) wine tour of Sydney.

 

Colleen

[Tamaracboy]

Long as they don't aussiefy their prices. That one american model they could adopt.

 

{combining with another price related post}

So, IF there are to be NO tips, the crew should earn LESS ??

The shared auto-tips are part of the crew contract and factored as a huge % or their wages.

Eliminating that portion of the crew's earnings will not happen, THUS the higher base prices in Australia.

Same monies, just different location on your bill.

But, then the cruises are marketable as "No Tipping"

Additionally, making the tips as part of the base price means the higher base is now commissionable to the TA's (& taxable in some ports), so an extra % has to be added on to compensate for that.

It is like double taxation, but if YOU want "No Tipping" that is the price you must pay.

Higher fuel prices also contribute to the price differential.

I do not know anything about the Australian tax structure on foreign corporations, but I'm guessing there is also a contributing factor.

And I do know that stricter consumer protection laws in Australia would make overall operating expenses higher.

It all adds up (and up) :(

 

***** SNIP *****

Re the cruise pricing... yes, they are out of the market at the moment but if they don't receive enough custom they will be left with two choices, ... sail with empty ships or lower the prices. The latter is the most likely.

 

There is most obviously a THIRD choice:

Abandoning the Australian market all together, if/when it is not profitable

So if there is no profit to be made, NO business would/could survive there.

Be it Cruise Ship Line or Widget Engraving ;)

 

***** SNIP *****

The argument that Florida has a large customer base is not the reason for the cost inconsistencies with AU ..IMO.? They can only charge what the customer is willing to pay.

 

Yes we are lucky here in Ft Lauderdale, but there is no birthright to cruise.

The companies are here because the business is here and the Caribbean is here.

It is the incredible amount of lines/ships/itineraries competing with each other that keeps our prices low.

Therefore, IF your government could make it attractive for various lines to permanently station more ships in Australia, you just might end up with more competition and lower prices.

 

NOW: as to the bacon, what is served on cruise ships is definitely NOT what is typical in American homes or restaurants.

It is this way because the cruise lines cut it very thin to make more pieces, then they over cook it in large batches so that they do not run the risk of any ending up under-cooked.

I always search out the least cremated strips.

Your bacon looks beautiful, wish we had it here.

Believe it or not, there is a thread somewhere on CC of people trying to duplicate "Cruise Ship Bacon" at home :confused:

I love beets and am looking forward to trying an Egg & Beet Burger :cool:

 

r.

[icat2000]

Geez. How did my post regarding cruise prices go to a discussion about tips and stiffing the crew? Did I mention in my post about eliminating the tips for crew.

Personally, I don't mind paying the gratitutes on top of the cruise price.

 

I was referring to the base price of the cruise. For example having competitive pricing for crusies that the American market seems to have the luxury of. Not the overpriced cruises that seem to float around the South Pacific.

[Tredebo]

A simple self serve tea/coffee/biscuit station on the lower cabin decks instead of having to go up to the Lido to bring back a quick cuppa (applicable more to those who don't like to bug room service).

 

Agree with MM Down Under about the tea; and cjm66 about lamb and beetroot. I ate lamb for a week after my last trip to US/Canada.

[The_Big_M]

I guess we could have the depressed prices (and ships leaving the territory as well) if we had the depressed economy and increased unemployment that the US has been having. Not too sure how many want that.

 

Still, there have been bargains to be had in both places as well depending on time and other factors. Prices just change based on supply and demand.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

A simple self serve tea/coffee/biscuit station on the lower cabin decks instead of having to go up to the Lido to bring back a quick cuppa (applicable more to those who don't like to bug room service).

 

 

 

I like that idea:)

 

[floatie]

{combining with another price related post}

So, IF there are to be NO tips, the crew should earn LESS ??r.

 

In theory, if they adopt the Australian model, no.

But what Princess actually do is another thing??? We have not seen any facts on this. They should receive a full salary, not a pauper one then left to beg for tips.

 

The common problem with the "tipping" is that Americans cannot understand that service staff in Australia are paid a "full salary" just like other employees. Thus we pay our ""TIP"" in the purchase price of the goods.

 

The reason for our tradition on this is that it is considered to be unfair to pay staff a pauper salary then expect them to beg from customers. Personally, I hate being served by someone that is delivering service only in the hope that they will be tipped. Australian staff deliver good service because they are being paid to do so by their employer, not the customer.

 

I believe that our system is what is used in most of the world and the US system of paying pauper salaries for service staff only happens in the US.

 

All cruise lines operating here have to do is include the auto tip in the fare. Simple as that. That way all staff are paid fairly and there will be no "removing" of the auto tip that happens a lot in the US (and here on some ships).

 

Why seperate staff salary from the price of a cruise... ?? Why have it so it can be removed?? Some say they remove it so they can tip directly... ha ha ha.... we know the real reason most do this, be honest?

 

You can still tip! You can give money to everyone that walks past you if you like... there is no law against it, but understand when receiving service that that person has already been paid a tip in the purchase price of your goods.

[johndon]

I hope they have watched "Australia's Got Talent" and invite some of our excellent young and not so young entertainers from that show to perform on board. Some the "AGT" performers are far better than the entertainers on the ships now.

 

John

[Australian family]

They could give the bacon a New Zealand flavour. Manuka honey smoked bacon, we had this one morning in the Bay of Islands, it was so nice. And yes it was the full rasher, not just the streaky bit of bacon.

[Red Hat Cruise Cat]

Extract from interview / press release from Jennifer Vandekreeke,director Carnival CruiseLines as reported in Cruise Weekly. She is reporting on changes being made to Carnival Spirit during its pre Oz refit.

 

"Other confirmed changes include Australian power points in cabins, Australian poker machines in the casino, revised menus and no tipping.

 

“We want to make sure we bring the Aussie spirit to the Carnival Spirit, so we’re reaching out through social media and asking Australians to help us ‘Aussify’ the ship,”

 

Vandekreeke said. On Monday 10 Oct, Australians will be invited via Facebook to name the waterslideto be installed on Carnival Spirit when it enters dry dock in Jan 2012. The winning name will be selected next month.

 

Any other suggestions for Carnival?

 

Colleen

 

When is the Carnival Spirit going to Australia?

[bazzaw]

Abandoning the Australian market all together, if/when it is not profitable

 

I suspect that this will in fact happen - after about 18 months time.

 

Cruising is not different to any other industry - I would be surprised if an almost overnight 100% increase in supply is sustainable for long. We have had 6 cruiseships based here - we will now have how many??? I think I got it to around 14 last time I counted.

 

 

Barry

[Tigerman00]

Well Carnival Spirit( as much as I want to go on her) will have to cut prices by a long way to get me on there.. Its a shame if they cant make a go of it here, but they are going straight for the rip off.

 

K

[bazzaw]

I can't agree to your use of the term "rip off" - it is a commonly used one these days, but I cannot see how anything that is not an essential of life can be regarded as a "rip off". Cruising is a pure luxury that many/most ever do.

 

The forces of demand and supply will ultimately prevail - in the meantime, keep your powder dry!! :)

 

Barry

[MMDown Under]

Carnival, as an introductory offer, could follow the MSC model and offer Australians "2 for the price of 1" cruise fares.

 

Then, if they have a good value product, they will attract a loyal following.

 

(We cruised twice on MSC's transatlantic cruises on "2 for the price of 1" cruises, which included expensive overseas air travel, and look forward to them cruising from Australia.)

 

If cruise fares are too expensive, on a daily basis, I must admit I do feel it is a "rip off " and make other travel choices. After all, we all know that we spend much more on a cruise than the initial fare!

[Taxguy77]

Aussie beers and wines which are much better than from overseas. Good old James Squire, Fosters, Crownies, VB. Wines from Margaret River, Yarra Valley, Barossa, Hunter Valley. Not forgetting NZ's Hawks Bay and Marlborough.

I agree, put the snags on the barbie with onions and tomato sauce, not ketchup, on bread, then we're laughing.:D

 

The language in this and other posts shows me the suggestion to have an Aussie make all the annoumcements is a very valid one! Ya'll don't talk like us.

Many, many beer drinkers world-wide will agree with you about the beer, and Aust. wines are excellent. DW and I drink Aust., Chilean and Calif. wines most of the time.

The bacon featured in a picture in one of the posts looks like the U.S. type plus what we call Canadian bacon. Cruiseship bacon IS sliced thin, but some fast-food places in the U.S. slice it even thinner! I have some pre-cooked bacon in the refrigerator that has 11-14 slices in 2.5 oz. It's basically the flavor and not messy to prepare.

[The_Big_M]

Carnival, as an introductory offer, could follow the MSC model and offer Australians "2 for the price of 1" cruise fares.

 

(We cruised twice on MSC's transatlantic cruises on "2 for the price of 1" cruises, which included expensive overseas air travel, and look forward to them cruising from Australia.)

 

That's more marketing, and also not a general policy.

 

All lines have less demand for TA/relocation cruises, for a number of valid reasons. MSC just marketed the discounts for these in that way as a 2 for 1, rather than reducing the cost, but it's the same outcome. It was not an offer applying to all their cruises.

 

Carnival only have the one relocation cruise, and as it is the first relocation they have out of the US to Australia, is likely to do well enough in bookings without needing such discounts.

[Tamaracboy]

Geez. How did my post regarding cruise prices go to a discussion about tips and stiffing the crew? Did I mention in my post about eliminating the tips for crew.

Personally, I don't mind paying the gratitutes on top of the cruise price.

 

I was referring to the base price of the cruise. For example having competitive pricing for crusies that the American market seems to have the luxury of. Not the overpriced cruises that seem to float around the South Pacific.

 

Icat:

 

It was NOT just your post {thus the disclaimer at the very beginning, please re-read}

If you had read all the posts in the thread, there were at least two comments about the "American" style of tipping, and its effect on the total price.

I attempted to explain that in the most easily understandable way, which did get rather lengthy.

 

For the other comments:

Again upon re-reading you may not miss the points that while the American fares may seem lower, we are actually paying a more similar price, though the total bill is divided up in different ways.

This is, of course with the dislaimer of other price increasing factors previously spelled out, such as Aussie Taxes, Higher Fuel Costs, Increased cost of doing business due to Aussie consumer protection laws etc. Again, all in original post.

 

So, just to repeat what was already written, but obviously not read:

(yet still interpreted and misquoted to the point of including "begging" ! !)

THE AMERICAN BASE PRICE IS LOWER FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS THAT VARIOUS POSTERS SINCE SEEM TO NOT UNDERSTAND:

1. By NOT including 100% of the Staff salary in the base price in America, the base price is thus lower. Notice "Staff not Crew.
   
2. The rest of the Staff's wages are completed by sharing in a pool funded by the Hotel Service Charge which is added to your on board account by so much per passenger per day.
   
3. This is the way the Staff Cortracts are written ! As an entitlement, as part of their wages.
   
4. There are many VALID reasons for this, including lowered commisionable base fares and lower taxes. THIS SAVES YOU MONEY
   
5. The Staff do not have to "Beg for tips" a. that would be classless and benieth them and b. these monies and this income are WRITTEN INTO THEIR CONTRACTS !
   
6. Thus: the Staff are PAID A "FULL SALARY"
   
7. There are higher fuel prices
   
8. There are Australian taxes on foreign corporations
   
9. There are additional expenses of doing business due to Australian Consumer Protection laws
   
10. Higher Percentages aid to Australian TA's
    

 

Hopefully this re-explains all that was written previously concerning the "Tipping" and "Base Fare" correlation.

 

Now as to other factors affecting pricing in Australia plus additional failures to understand the written words.

Comments will be in GREEN so as to be able to intersperse them into the quote and address each point more directly:

 

In theory, if they adopt the Australian model, no.

Well, necessarily YES, since the "tipping" is contractually built into calculating their "FULL SALARY", and the Australian model eliminates "tipping". As was written originally AND above. But what Princess actually do is another thing??? We have not seen any facts on this. They should receive a full salary,They do receive a "Full Salary" as outlined above. not a pauper one then left to beg for tips.They do NOT "Beg" as outlined above.

 

The common problem with the "tipping" is that Americans cannot understand that service staff in Australia are paid a "full salary" just like other employees. What Australians (hopefully just a few) cannot understand is that Americans (most) fully understand the difference between receiving a "Full Salary" and being "dependent" upon tips. Thus we pay our ""TIP"" in the purchase price of the goods. You contradict yourself later.

 

The reason for our tradition on this is that it is considered to be unfair to pay staff a pauper salary then expect them to beg from customers. NO "Pauper Salaries" and NO "Begging" as outlined above. Personally, I hate being served by someone that is delivering service only in the hope that they will be tipped. Australian staff deliver good (notice: not excellent) service because they are being paid to do so by their employer, not the customer. Here's your contradiction: Did you not just write that the Customer pays a higher "Purchase Price" so that the employer passes this through in the form of a "Full Salary"? So, just who is in reality paying ?? Simple math = Customer

 

I believe that our system is what is used in most of the world and the US system of paying pauper salaries for service staff only happens in the US.

Travel is so very educational. Having done any you might realize that "tipping" is the norm in Western Society. EVERY restaurant bill in Italy, Germany France, etc. include a MANDATORY fee for service. In Italy they even add a mandatory fee for setting the table with silverware! So just try and leave a French bar where it is posted "Service Non Compris" without leaving a tip, and you will be chased screaming into the street. The Spanish are much more understanding and will politely point out where it says Servicio No Incluido", in the lower level establishments where it is not automatically added to your bill.

Thus it seems that it is actually Australians (well some) who lack understanding in the ways of the others. Words have such a nasty habit of coming back.

 

All cruise lines operating here have to do is include the auto tip in the fare. Simple as that. Is this not exactly what was explained as to the reasons Australian Base Fares are higher originally? That way all staff are paid fairly and there will be no "removing" of the auto tip that happens a lot in the US (and here on some ships). By "a lot" you mean the very few malcontents that one encounters everywhere? This thread does seem to be a lot about Australians carping about paying higher fares than the Americans. This, in the most recent posts, even after being given a most thorough accounting as to why.

 

Why seperate staff salary from the price of a cruise... ?? Try re-reading previous post. There are multiple advantageous reasons for the Staff, Passengers and Company. Why have it so it can be removed?? Some say they remove it so they can tip directly... ha ha ha.... we know (?) the real reason most do this, be honest? You must know this from experience, otherwise how?

 

You can still tip! You can give money to everyone that walks past you if you like... there is no law against it, but understand when receiving service that that person has already been paid a tip in the purchase price of your goods. Again, you just confirmed your previous contradiction

 

Just so you can "understand" Americans a little better, especially on Cruise Ships, since we (for the most part) appreciate the difference between "good" and "excellent" service, and even though we are already paying a "Hotel Service Charge" per passenger per day, knowing that this is part of their "Full Salary", still "tip" additionally to those who merit (NOT beg for) it

 

Americans (for the most part) do not think that cruising is a Birthright, nor do we carp publically when we beliefe that this LUXURY is an overpriced "Rip-Off"

I guess we could have the depressed prices (and ships leaving the territory as well) if we had the depressed economy and increased unemployment that the US has been having. Not too sure how many want that.

Cruising has been one of the least affected industries by the WORLD economic downturn (admittedly caused by our previous President & friends)

Still, there have been bargains to be had in both places as well depending on time and other factors. Prices just change based on supply and demand.

AND:

Well Carnival Spirit( as much as I want to go on her) will have to cut prices by a long way to get me on there.. Its a shame if they cant make a go of it here, but they are going straight for the rip off.

K

AND: Too late.....that was the first thing they Aussified LOL

Ridiculously expensive at present

AND WORST OF ALL:

They could increase the number of passengers for multiple occupancy cabins - reducing the individual cost per passenger

Have you ever been 4 in a cabin and you want more ??!!

[Royalty X]

Oh geez, can we lighten up a little? Isn't this a forum to discuss cruising in Australia and NZ? Last time I checked, cruising was fun (it's different here than in other countries and cruise companies need to adapt to survive here) and this thread has very quickly become way too serious.

[Aus Traveller]

I don't want to address all the points that Tamaracboy mentions, but I would like to make a few points.

 

I don't think the removal of tips from two Australian-based cruise lines fully explains the difference in pricing between Australia and USA. Cruise fares in the Australian market have been high than in the USA for many many years, but auto-tipping has only been removed since last year with P & O and from May this year with Priness. Other cruise lines have kept the auto-tips.

 

Even if we have travelled extensiely overseas (as we have) most Australians prefer not to worry about tips. It is not that we are 'tight' or mean, it is just simpler if it is an all-inclusive price.

 

Company taxes apply to all companies and it would be difficult for us to find out what percentage each company pays and what tactics they use to minimize tax. Australia company tax is a flat 30%, whereas in the USA higher-earning companies pay 35% - not much difference.

 

Then there is the issue of taxes on cruise tickets. In Australia there is no GST on overseas travel so nearly all cruises leaving from Australia are tax-free. How does this compare with USA? From what I have read previously, I think there might be taxes.

[The_Big_M]

Americans (for the most part) do not think that cruising is a Birthright, nor do we carp publically when we beliefe that this LUXURY is an overpriced "Rip-Off"

I guess we could have the depressed prices (and ships leaving the territory as well) if we had the depressed economy and increased unemployment that the US has been having. Not too sure how many want that.

Cruising has been one of the least affected industries by the WORLD economic downturn (admittedly caused by our previous President & friends)

Still, there have been bargains to be had in both places as well depending on time and other factors. Prices just change based on supply and demand.

Neither of these comments were suggesting that cruising is a birthright, nor that it was a rip-off - in fact the opposite.

 

I made the point that prices are, on the whole, a factor of supply and demand. While that may result in a price higher than an individual wishes to pay at times, that is indicative that the overall market still views it as worthwhile. Nobody is forced to cruise, so it cannot be a rip-off if the market is willingly paying it.

[Tamaracboy]

[/indent]Neither of these comments were suggesting that cruising is a birthright, nor that it was a rip-off - in fact the opposite.

 

I made the point that prices are, on the whole, a factor of supply and demand. While that may result in a price higher than an individual wishes to pay at times, that is indicative that the overall market still views it as worthwhile. Nobody is forced to cruise, so it cannot be a rip-off if the market is willingly paying it.

 

Correct: neither of THOSE two points (which were in one post) mentions Pip-Off.

And you are preaching to the choir about prices being a factor of supply and demand. As I have written for those who bother to read.

However, it you had read the entire thread before posting this reply, or even read all the quotes in my post, you would have seen that at least two posters other than yourself had qualified current Australian pricing as a Rip-Off.

This is not me, you will notice that I have done nothing except quote other posters found on this very thread.

 

I just feel it is a disservice to readers of any thread to let stand blatant falsehoods and exaggerated speculations.

It is simply a matter of truth and logic.

 

AND: I never once wrote that the "tipping" differential is the sole cause of Australia's higher pricing, quite the opposite.

Why even comment if one hasn't bothered to read FIRST ?

 

One poster has mentioned that Australia's business tax is a flat 30%, without mentioning if that also applies to "Foreign Corporations".

And while US Corporate taxes may reach 35%, the cruise lines are notorious here for not paying ANY income taxes, so there's one reason.

Now, as to base fare structuring, one thing I do not know about Australia's methods is if Port Fees and Taxes are included in the Base Fare or if they are a separate billable item.

IF they are included then there is one more reason, as the base price you see for us does not include and Port Fees, Port Taxes, Docking Fees or Pilot Fees etc. You see the picture here ?

Of course I have previously mentioned higher fuel prices.

Overhead business expenses, due in part to Australia's stronger Consumer Protection laws. (we could use them here, where we have no, zero, nil, gahnichts, protection against cruise ship practices)

This is all to say that there are a myriad of reasons for Cruise Line pricing in Australia.

 

World-wide it is a very profitable business, and if it is not so in Australia, OR if the pricing needs to be higher to make it so, then focus should NOT be put on the U.S.

 

Most Americans, and especially myself, admire the Aussies for their character and spirit and their beautiful country.

What we (I) admire has been very little evidenced by some posters on this thread.

Australian bacon, Aussie announcements, Aussie entertainment, Leaf Tea, well I would like all of those and I'm not even Australian.

 

But to put things into perspective, and as an exact parallel to the cruise pricing aspect debated herein:

Cars also cost more in Australia than here.

Go figure.

[floatie]

Correct: neither of THOSE two points (which were in one post) mentions Pip-Off..

 

I had to go and check the title of this thread ..?? Yes it is .. Carnival wants to aussify... !! Ok fair enough, good topic.

 

I cant understand what or why this guy is posting all his unrelated drivel?? :confused:

 

Sorry, but someone had to speak up! :rolleyes::eek:

[bazzaw]

Floatie

 

I think you may find that it has come out of some very broad "generalisations" that have been made here about America/Americans.

 

I think you might also find that if an Aussie went to a primarily US sub-section of these forums and found some sweeping generalisations regarding Aussies, a similar reaction may occur.

 

Barry

[rugbypopsie]

Just lets get back on topic...I would like to see in no particular order...

Some of our fantastic entertainers given a chance to showcase their talents..not geriatric "comedians" with a marginally funny routine. We do see some now...but more please.

Aussie style ham, bacon, prawns, and more deck BBQ's.

Australian wines in the dining room.

Music from our country particularly on entering and leaving our ports...always adds to the magic of the moment...so no steel bands please.

No art auctions...we dont like rip offs of any kind.

Roll hotel charge (i.e. "tips") into cruise price.

The same booking conditions enjoyed in the US...i.e. smaller deposits, more flexibility, more incentives for loyalty.

I dont mean that I don't enjoy the US based ships...I do..but if you want it to feel more aussie then these things could help.

Sue

[Debsta]

FRESH seafood! :D Even if only for the first night! with FRESH milk :D Even if only for the first day and night :p