Mazatlan just got dumped for 2012

[califgary]

Why does it stink? don't you want to stop in Matzalan? My husband and I are happy there is no change.

 

If you check the HAL website ALL 2012 Mexico 7 day itineraries have removed Mazatlan - so there is a change which is why above poster says "it stinks" and I agree we love Mazatlan!

[LAFFNVEGAS]

It's possible the change is the result of internal politics and not renewed violence. Previously, the Mazatlan port required the cruise ships pay for tug boats event though they didn't use them. While this requirement was recently dropped, which ultimately reduces the costs to the cruise lines, I wonder if it is still cheaper to port overnight in PV than paying for the additional costs of porting in a third port on the itinerary.

 

Personally, I think there's more to the story. For example, when Princess dropped PV in favor of a Cabo/Ensendada itinerary out of LA, I was convinced that it was to save fuel costs. If not, why would all the other cruise lines still go to PV and add an overnight stay?

 

I agree with you 100%

 

From reading some of the cruise line employee blogs, it's clear that they are doing everything they can to save on fuel costs....and to keep from raising passenger fares.

 

IMO, the safety situation on the along the Mexican coast is a big factor in these cancellations, but it may also be a convenient excuse, to some extent, to alter itineraries to save operating costs.

 

It may also be a factor that on-board revenue increases on sea days...excepting shore excursion revenue of course.

 

Just think of the money the Mexican economy is losing in those ports which are being eliminated. Ships sailing by every day and not leaving one Peso. That's tough on the middle class Mexicans who work in those ports.

 

This drug business is changing the world. Too bad.

This really is all about money with the Drug thing being a convenient excuse. Certainly there are no Drug problems in any US Ports :rolleyes: One of the problems is the ship did not sell much for Shore Excursions in Mazatlan, too many great deals from private tour venders and too easy to just go to town on the plumerias. The other thing is with Mazatlan spending money on the newly improved dock their charges have gone up to the cruise lines.

HAL is actually paying a bit more in port charges to do an overnight in PV so having two nights there HAL is still being very fair to their passengers but the Princess thing with going to Ensenada:eek: Now that is basically Princess really being cheap and saving on fuel, the problem is they are having to give away those cabins because no one wants to only go to Ensenada so what they are gaining in fuel cost they are losing in cabin revenue. Pretty stupid move for Princess. They are trying to say safety but Disney is continuing PV and it was actually Disney that started this whole thing and the others just followed.

While yes there is a slight safety concern in Mexico it is definitely not any more than Jamaica, Bahamas, or even St Thomas. And let's see I do not see ships avoiding Cozumel MEXICO :rolleyes: That is still Mexico and has been and can be as dangerous as Mazatlan. If you want to think that cruise lines are doing it only for your safety, you really need to rethink what you thinking. :D

[jmelnick]

I just recieved this notification from my TA:

 

Hello,

 

We have received a notification from Holland America regarding your

upcoming sailing. Please review and plan accordingly.

 

Thank you for choosing Best Price Cruises!

 

From Holland:

Due to guest safety concerns, the call to Mazatlan has been replaced

with an additional day in Puerto Vallarta with an overnight on board ship.

[TraelorMex]

Well said Lisa. Couldnt have said it better...

 

This really is all about money with the Drug thing being a convenient excuse. Certainly there are no Drug problems in any US Ports :rolleyes: One of the problems is the ship did not sell much for Shore Excursions in Mazatlan, too many great deals from private tour venders and too easy to just go to town on the plumerias. The other thing is with Mazatlan spending money on the newly improved dock their charges have gone up to the cruise lines.

 

HAL is actually paying a bit more in port charges to do an overnight in PV so having two nights there HAL is still being very fair to their passengers but the Princess thing with going to Ensenada:eek: Now that is basically Princess really being cheap and saving on fuel, the problem is they are having to give away those cabins because no one wants to only go to Ensenada so what they are gaining in fuel cost they are losing in cabin revenue. Pretty stupid move for Princess. They are trying to say safety but Disney is continuing PV and it was actually Disney that started this whole thing and the others just followed.

 

While yes there is a slight safety concern in Mexico it is definitely not any more than Jamaica, Bahamas, or even St Thomas. And let's see I do not see ships avoiding Cozumel MEXICO :rolleyes: That is still Mexico and has been and can be as dangerous as Mazatlan. If you want to think that cruise lines are doing it only for your safety, you really need to rethink what you thinking. :D

[Cruise Organizer]

Having been on an excursion and being stopped while armed troops in jeeps w/ machine guns passed by looking for the drug dealers, I am not always thrilled with Mexico.

 

It is disappointing to miss a port, but if something ever happened once, there would be an outcry of why did you go there.

 

I hope you still enjoy the cruise

[jkrislc]

Ask them for a rebate for all the fuel costs this adjustment will save them...oh and good luck getting that!

 

I think it is sad that the cruise lines are making adjustments in quality of service, changing itineraries, etc., basically eroding the quality of the product they are delivering, so they can keep the prices consistent.

 

My sense is that they have done some research and it's told them there is a limited tolerance for fare hikes in their business and passengers will just stay away if they raised prices. That would put the whole industry into a death spiral, creating a ton of over capacity and downsizing.

 

So they've decided to try and slide all these adjustments in under the radar and just hope we won't notice. We'll continue to pay the same fares for something less tahn we used to have and put up with it....and most of us I guess probably will!

 

This is the main reason they haven't reinstated the fuel surcharges to things I've heard. While they've reserved the right to do so and while fuel costs are above the stated limit, from the reports I've heard cruise bookings are fairly good right now and the industry as a whole is afraid to institute the fuel surcharges for fear that bookings would slow and/or be cancelled. Thus, I wouldn't be surprised if the lines are looking for other ways to limit fuel costs. Perhaps by eliminating a port, they can save on fuel costs by travelling slower.

[sassyredhat]

I'm not booked for any of these itins, but if I were~~~~I would rather spend 4 days at sea going to Hawaii than 3 days at sea and end up in Ensenada. :)

BTW~~we are going to Ensenada in Feb, but only on a 4 day cruise.

The only place in Mexico that I don't like is Acapulco, and the lines stopped going there awhile ago. I do miss the traditional 7 dayers though.

Pat

[jkrislc]

While Ensenada wouldn't be my first choice on a cruise, they have a couple of decent wineries you can tour and the blow hole is always worth a visit.

 

Personally, I'd rather have Ensenada as a third stop then an overnight in PV, but that's mainly because I've been to PV so much.

[Typhoon1]

Mazatlan was a wonderful stop. I remember being there 11 years ago. However, it is now a dangerous stop and HAL will put the safety of the passengers first.

 

11 years ago things were very different in Mazatlan. Just a matter of time before the problems spread to other Mexican ports.

[Blizzard54]

I think Lisa really hit the nail on the head. Between the lower shorex sales and being able to save fuel by traveling slower, HAL probably comes out better by skipping Mazatlan. It does not matter much to us, after 20 or so cruises on the west coast of Mexico we rarely get off the ship much other that to take a walk and the dock area is Mazatlan is no good for that.

 

I am sorry to see that 7 day cruises on the west coast of Mexico are becoming rare. We like to go every January and it looks like the Carnival Splendor and one of HAL's older ships are the only options for 2013.

[cruz chic]

HAL is actually paying a bit more in port charges to do an overnight in PV so having two nights there HAL is still being very fair to their passengers but the Princess thing with going to Ensenada:eek: Now that is basically Princess really being cheap and saving on fuel, the problem is they are having to give away those cabins because no one wants to only go to Ensenada so what they are gaining in fuel cost they are losing in cabin revenue. Pretty stupid move for Princess.

 

That was a stupid move by Princess. I had a cruise booked with them for Feb.2012 and when they announced that this was going to be the itinerary for 2011 I cancelled it on the spot. I decided to go with a Caribbean cruise instead even though it's painful to get there. Princess has now changed the itinerary back to 2 days in Cabo and a day in PV. I would have gone for this as the price was a lot more reasonable then the Caribbean. I already had the air by that point so I couldn't change. I think Princess has learned from that big mistake.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I think Lisa really hit the nail on the head. Between the lower shorex sales and being able to save fuel by traveling slower, HAL probably comes out better by skipping Mazatlan. It does not matter much to us, after 20 or so cruises on the west coast of Mexico we rarely get off the ship much other that to take a walk and the dock area is Mazatlan is no good for that.

 

I am sorry to see that 7 day cruises on the west coast of Mexico are becoming rare. We like to go every January and it looks like the Carnival Splendor and one of HAL's older ships are the only options for 2013.

John I think this will prove to be a big mistake on HAL's part for fall 2012/winter 2013 by not having at least a Vista Class on the West Coast. I know personally I have sailed on the Zaandam and would probably choose Princess or the Splendor before I chose the Zaandam. That is really the ship they should have sent has the 2nd ship Down Under. I want a balcony cabin to Mexico and will not pay the prices they want for the Verandah Suite and if I do I prefer to book a Superior Verandah Suite on a Vista Class that gets me far more room. HAL has been so successful with Hawaii this year because of placing the Oosterdam doing this itinerary. Even if they kept the Oosterdam going to Australia they should swap out the Zaandam with another Vista possibly the Zuiderdam. Those 10 and 11 day Panama runs have been a tough sell for HAL with filling the Zuiderdam they started to practically give them away. HAL could easily repostion the Zuiderdam here after Alaska then take the Zaandam to the Caribbean. It would definitely make more sense.

[Himself]

11 years ago things were very different in Mazatlan. Just a matter of time before the problems spread to other Mexican ports.

 

That is scary but true. I agree with you 100 percent. And who will get hurt? It will be the good people of Mexico who count on cruise ship passengers to make a living. Drugs are bad things.

[Himself]

John I think this will prove to be a big mistake on HAL's part for fall 2012/winter 2013 by not having at least a Vista Class on the West Coast. I know personally I have sailed on the Zaandam and would probably choose Princess or the Splendor before I chose the Zaandam. That is really the ship they should have sent has the 2nd ship Down Under. I want a balcony cabin to Mexico and will not pay the prices they want for the Verandah Suite and if I do I prefer to book a Superior Verandah Suite on a Vista Class that gets me far more room. HAL has been so successful with Hawaii this year because of placing the Oosterdam doing this itinerary. Even if they kept the Oosterdam going to Australia they should swap out the Zaandam with another Vista possibly the Zuiderdam. Those 10 and 11 day Panama runs have been a tough sell for HAL with filling the Zuiderdam they started to practically give them away. HAL could easily repostion the Zuiderdam here after Alaska then take the Zaandam to the Caribbean. It would definitely make more sense.

 

Lisa: I take you do do not like the "R" Class ships. I have travelled on the Zaandam and I prefer the Zaandam to the Zuiderdam. Since I rarely go to Mexico, but I have been known to do the "Sunfarer cruise", I would welcome that move. I have a definate preference for the R Class over the Vista Class.

[PathfinderEss]

John I think this will prove to be a big mistake on HAL's part for fall 2012/winter 2013 by not having at least a Vista Class on the West Coast. I know personally I have sailed on the Zaandam and would probably choose Princess or the Splendor before I chose the Zaandam. That is really the ship they should have sent has the 2nd ship Down Under. I want a balcony cabin to Mexico and will not pay the prices they want for the Verandah Suite and if I do I prefer to book a Superior Verandah Suite on a Vista Class that gets me far more room. HAL has been so successful with Hawaii this year because of placing the Oosterdam doing this itinerary. Even if they kept the Oosterdam going to Australia they should swap out the Zaandam with another Vista possibly the Zuiderdam. Those 10 and 11 day Panama runs have been a tough sell for HAL with filling the Zuiderdam they started to practically give them away. HAL could easily repostion the Zuiderdam here after Alaska then take the Zaandam to the Caribbean. It would definitely make more sense.

Totally agree with you Lisa, am very disappointed that the Oosterdam is going down under, really like having a Vista ship on the West Coast. The Zaandam :( has never been one of our favorite Hal ships. Living on the West Coast, we cruise at least once or twice a year down to Mexico, liking the convenience of not having to fly anywhere. But instead of the Zuiderdam how about the Westerdam:D.

[DFD1]

I agree. We've sailed Zaandam twice as well as Zuiderdam. We would much rather sail Zaandam on any itinerary. However, from reports here, she needs some TLC to bring her up to what she used to be. This is from second hand information. When we sailed Zaandam, she was first rate.

 

That being said, it would be nice to have her back in the Caribbean.

 

I think this Mexican situation out of San Diego is up in the air for the next season while the cruise lines try and figure out how to bring back this market. They aren't making any serious money from it at the moment.....and the Mexican people who work in those ports are doing even worse.

 

IMO, only.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Lisa: I take you do do not like the "R" Class ships. I have travelled on the Zaandam and I prefer the Zaandam to the Zuiderdam. Since I rarely go to Mexico, but I have been known to do the "Sunfarer cruise", I would welcome that move. I have a definate preference for the R Class over the Vista Class.

It is not that I do not "like" the R Class ships it is more that I prefer the Vista and Signature Class ships because of having more things offered to do on board and a much nicer spa but my biggest complaint is pricing. HAL has and always will charge more for cabins on the S and R Class ships for the most part especially Balcony cabins. On thses ships they consider them "Suites" I am sorry they are far from a Suite. While the cabin size is slightly larger than a regular balcony on a Vista the price difference is significant. A much larger percentage of the average cruiser now wants balconies, the R Class ship does not have true balcony cabins, instead they are Verandah Suites and not that many of them. It makes for a hard sell for this ship. Actually it is getting that way for all itineraries for HAL on the S and R Class. If HAL would sell the Verandah Suite for the same price they would a regular balcony cabin on the Oosterdam I would definitely sail on the Zaandam. Six and Seven years ago I did not think twice about it I was booking S Suites but times have changed and the economy has made many take a 2nd look on what they spend. The S and R Class ships do NOT have Balcony cabins they have Verandah Suites with a much higher price tag making it hard to sell they just do not fit in well to what the average cruiser wants.

[PathfinderEss]

..........Now that is basically Princess really being cheap and saving on fuel, the problem is they are having to give away those cabins because no one wants to only go to Ensenada so what they are gaining in fuel cost they are losing in cabin revenue. Pretty stupid move for Princess. They are trying to say safety but Disney is continuing PV and it was actually Disney that started this whole thing and the others just followed.

 

........but in defense of Princess, they are doing some really nice coastal's which I wish Hal would start doing. Princess seems not to be having any problems filling those cruises up, they can be waitlisted a year in advance. At least it gives you another choice besides Mexico. We did one a few years back and really enjoyed it.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

........but in defense of Princess, they are doing some really nice coastal's which I wish Hal would start doing. Princess seems not to be having any problems filling those cruises up, they can be waitlisted a year in advance. At least it gives you another choice besides Mexico. We did one a few years back and really enjoyed it.

Oh I definitely agree, I really wish HAL would do these. Princess learned a long time ago how to turn the repostioning cruises into 7 day itineraries that sell out quickly. They now charge more than double per day than what HAL charges for their repo cruises that are so boring and just 3 and 4 days. So Silly on HAL's part, after Princess successful NCL started the 7 days itineraries as well and are also doing well. Of course then Princess took it a step further and added a few spring Coastals that were round trip San Pedro and those are selling quite well too.

Even Crystal made some rather last minute changes with the Symphony this year. The ship that is in San Diego today was originally to be a Mexico run that they changed to a Paciic Coastal with just a stop yesterday in Ensenada. It had spent 2 nights in San Francisco and a day in Santa Barbara earlier this week.

[robertmnch]

I agree I enjoy Mazatlan, havnt heard any news items about continued problems so Im wondering what caused them to change the itinerary after final payment due and we've already paid.

I agree with all of the cruise lines opting out of Mazatlan and other Ports of Call in Mexico.

 

Just a few days ago the LA Times had a story about how many people have been killed in Mexico since 2006 = 46,000!

 

Friday's LA Times (12/09/2011) had a story about a high ranking politician who had been assassinated with 4 bullets to the head and one "ear" cut off! The killings are brutal! Decapitation and fingers cutoff!

 

I don't think the Cruise Lines want just one passenger murdered by the Drug Cartel. The "negative publicity" would shut down "all" Mexico Cruises.

 

I don't know what it takes to get this point across to the passengers who are disappointed in cancelling Ports of Call! It is NOT money! It is your "SAFETY"!:eek:

[Sea42]

Just a few days ago the LA Times had a story about how many people have been killed in Mexico since 2006 = 46,000!

 

 

I don't know what it takes to get this point across to the passengers who are disappointed in cancelling Ports of Call! It is NOT money! It is your "SAFETY"!:eek:

The US averages right around 15, 000 murders per year.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

[LAFFNVEGAS]

The US averages right around 15, 000 murders per year.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

And that is Per Year not since 2006

I would venture to say if you took a closer look those murders in Mexico since 2006 the majority DID NOT occur in Cruise Tourist Port Cities. But if you took at look at Port Cities in the US such as Miami, New York, Los Angeles, Houston, and yes even Ft Lauderdale and San Diego you would see a much higher number....just saying :rolleyes: There are risks for every type of travel as well as our normal every days lives. What about travel to Europe? Why single out just Mexico.

[Blizzard54]

The pricing on HAL's R and S class ships is similar to RCL's pricing on their Vision class. All of those classes have a limited number of balcony and suite cabins so the pricing is higher than the lines newer ships that have a higher percentage of balcony cabins. I understand that the lines currently are able to get more revenue out of the larger ships by sending them overseas. This year it has been Europe and now there are plans to send more of them to the southern hemisphere. Now that the European market has softened a bit it looks like they will flood the Australian market.

 

The pricing of the Zaandam balconies is issue for us. A balcony on the Carnival Splendor starts at 1/2 the price of the Zaandam. With that much difference we will try Carnival again.

 

I am looking at doing a 7 night coastal on Princess in 2013. We did a couple of them on NCL this year and enjoyed them.

 

I miss RCL on the west coast. They do their coastal by way of Hawaii and I can not take cruises that long these days.

[Sea42]

And that is Per Year not since 2006

 

I would venture to say if you took a closer look those murders in Mexico since 2006 the majority DID NOT occur in Cruise Tourist Port Cities. But if you took at look at Port Cities in the US such as Miami, New York, Los Angeles, Houston, and yes even Ft Lauderdale and San Diego you would see a much higher number....just saying :rolleyes: There are risks for every type of travel as well as our normal every days lives. What about travel to Europe? Why single out just Mexico.

Generally, if you stay away from high risk behaviors (drugs, prostitution, excessive alcohol consumption) whether at home or aboard your odds of being a victim of a violent crime decrease dramatically. While street crimes can happen to anyone most murders are not random.

[Susie51]

Here's a message I received from HAL (Just Yesterday) regarding our sscheduled stop in Mazatlan:

Dear sir:

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line concerning your upcoming cruise. At this time there has been no itinerary changes on the Oosterdam 1/28/12 sailing. The Oosterdam will arrive in Mazatlan, Mexico, on 2/1/12.

Please feel free to contact us if we may be of additional assistance. Holland America Line is confident our signature of excellence will surpass your expectations. We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future.

Kind Regards,

Dalita

Holland America Line

877-724-5425

 

As I said, THIS STINKS!!!!!

 

If it is safe to stop in MA in Feb., I don't see why it would not be safe after that?