Who should pay for noro treatment

[Loonbeam]

At the very least a full medical exam to make sure its 'just' noro. I would assume that would also include the prescription version of immodium.

 

At least here, a Doctor's visit at my GP is $95.

 

We are traveling in a couple of weeks on the Ruby and will bring tylenol, advil, and Imodium with us in case we get sick. We are perfectly happy quarantining ourselves in our room should we come down with this illness but do not want to incur medical costs if not necessary.

 

What exactly is the medical center providing for $100 +.

[Coral]

At the very least a full medical exam to make sure its 'just' noro. I would assume that would also include the prescription version of immodium.

 

At least here, a Doctor's visit at my GP is $95.

 

They were also providing shots back then (not sure what was in it). Someone mentioned that RCCL often waives these visits also.

[Tralynn]

It would not be Princess paying but perhaps Princess's Liability Insurance may pay?

The key word there is "Liability". Where is Princess' liability? How is it their fault someone catches a virus? There is no fault in cases of noro.

[Zukini]

What exactly is the medical center providing for $100 +.

 

For me:

Doctor New consultation, night $130

Pulse oximetry - $15

Loperamide prescription - $8

Codeine + Paracetamol prescription - $12

Night consultation, Nurse - $50

 

For my wife:

Acute Gastroenteritis consultation, night - $80

Injection fee - $10

Pulse oximetry - $15

Promethazine Hydrochloride Injection (2) - $12

Injection fee - $5

Nurse assessment, office hours - $30

Injection fee - $10

Prochlorperazine injection (2) - $12

Injection Fee - $5

 

Total in fees was $394

 

I have no idea why the consultation fees were different for me and my wife.

For what it's worth, my poor wife was so miserable I would have paid any amount they asked to get her some relief.

[JimmyVWine]

The key word there is "Liability". Where is Princess' liability? How is it their fault someone catches a virus? There is no fault in cases of noro.

 

There is a concept in the law called "strict liability" which is liability without fault. When a company invites the public on board its ship for a fee, it has certain responsibilities to provide a safe environment. If the noro originated from the galley, a crew member or Princess Cay, it could be liable. If a passenger brought it on board, then probably not. But it's a moot point because the origin will never be proven. But it is incorrect to say that there is no fault. Someone infected someone else. The infector is at fault. The infected is not.

[Cruise Junky]

There is a concept in the law called "strict liability" which is liability without fault. When a company invites the public on board its ship for a fee, it has certain responsibilities to provide a safe environment. If the noro originated from the galley, a crew member or Princess Cay, it could be liable. If a passenger brought it on board, then probably not. But it's a moot point because the origin will never be proven. But it is incorrect to say that there is no fault. Someone infected someone else. The infector is at fault. The infected is not.

 

You really need to read your cruise contract.

[seashells]

Medical on the ship is not run by the cruise lines.

 

They outsource it....Just like the Spa.

 

Little can be done once you have it, besides staying in bed with some sort of bucket until you're better.

 

Usually 24 to 48 hours.

 

Try to keep hydrated

[Pam in CA]

There is a concept in the law called "strict liability" which is liability without fault. When a company invites the public on board its ship for a fee, it has certain responsibilities to provide a safe environment. If the noro originated from the galley, a crew member or Princess Cay, it could be liable. If a passenger brought it on board, then probably not. But it's a moot point because the origin will never be proven. But it is incorrect to say that there is no fault. Someone infected someone else. The infector is at fault. The infected is not.

Spoken like a lawyer. :) However, wouldn't the cruiseline have to be found negligent, i.e., not cleaning the ship, not taking precautions when cases occur, etc.? And you're right. The infector is at fault and the only way to determine that is to test every passenger and crew member every time they board the ship, whether at embarkation or at a 4-hour port stop. Passengers get infected in ports just as often as they do at embarkation. I was infected while on an overnight in Jerusalem half-way through a 10-day cruise and was violently sick on a Sunday and Monday, still too sick to leave my cabin on Tuesday, and finally got a little food at the buffet (I asked staff to get it for me) before retreating back to my cabin on Wednesday. It happens and I'm not about to blame the cruiseline as its happened to me at home. You can take precautions and hope people who are sick act responsibly. We kind of know they won't. :(

[itzmered]

curious to know what they do for you in the medical center if you have Noro or suspected Noro?

[lakegirl16]

I had Noro two years ago on the Crown. I was SO SICK, I would have paid any amount of money to feel better.

 

They gave me a shot for the nausea, prescription imodium (which works with the first dose) and a seasick medicine. I had Travel Guard insurance. They paid the difference between the bill and what my personal insurance paid. As well, they paid for the two days I was confined to the cabin and missed out on during the cruise.

 

I don't remember the charges but they were far less than if I had gone to the ER or for that matter my own doctor here at home.

 

If you've had it you probably know what I mean about it being worth a fortune to feel better.:)

[HaliMakai]

My question exactly, what type of treatment do you receive?

[spirit rev]

We just returned from the Jan. 17 - 31 Coral Princess sailing. The night we left Aruba on our way to FLL we became suspecious of the Noro virus. It was on board and I think there was a some effort to contain it. We did not catch it, thankfully. I do not have any idea how many passengers were infected during the last couple of days of the cruise.

 

I, too, have concerns about the noro care not being picked up by the cruiseline when they clearly want you to self report. It is a disincentive to do so. Hopefully, you will be feeling so terrible you won't be out and about anyway. I recognize the cruise line cannot control what germs are brought on board by passengers, some not even knowing they have been infected.

 

My DH picked up the Noro virus on a Canada/New England cruise on NCL in 2010. NCL never charged us for any of the medical care he received including an IV and shots. As long as I'm making comparisons between two cruise lines, I'll add I do think NCL was far more restrictive in what was self-serve and available on tables, even in the dining rooms than I experienced with Princess. I appreciated the greater restrictions on NCL even though they were inconvienient for both crew and passengers.

 

These observations in no way influence my first experience on Princess and I will sail on this line again.

[Katie333]

A prescription at home costs me $12 just to dispense (yes, I could get this cheaper if i was willing to go somewhere further away from my house), plus the cost of the drugs for which I receive 80% reimbursement. My point is that with the cost comparison above, $8 for drugs seems extremely reasonable.

 

All in all, it's worthwhile to have insurance so that you don't have the financial impact on top of the misery of the illness.

 

Regarding costs, my DH got physically ill on a cruise (2 years ago?) and as there was noro on that ship, he had to go to the doctors office for a consultation. The doctor rightly concluded it was not noro. No charge, but there was nothing other than a quick consultation.

[cruzinchris]

My question exactly, what type of treatment do you receive?

 

When I was ill onboard the Emerald Princess (possibly Noro but might have been a food-borne bug), the ship's nurse visited me in our stateroom. She took my temperature (99.9), blood pressure (112/72), and asked what I had eaten over the last 24 hours (I provided comprehensive list). By the time that the Nurse visited, I had already taken Immodium and Tylenol, donned my pjs, and laid down as I didn't have the strength to do much else. I assured her that I would take more Immodium and/or Tylenol if needed and would continue to drink plenty of water as I always do. The Nurse provided with me the special menu for indisposed passengers and suggested that I call for Room Service regularly to stay nourished while confined to my stateroom for 24 hours (DH was not quarantined). My symptoms lasted about 12 hours, but I stayed in the stateroom for 24 hours as directed until the Nurse called the following morning to release me from cabin bondage.

 

My advice: DH and I always travel with a "portable pharmacy" that includes all of the basics that one might need in case of mild/moderate illness - Advil/Tylenol, Benedryl, Claritin, Caladryl, Neosporin, BandAids, Pepto-Bismol, Immodium, Pepcid, Tums, Gas-X, Preparation H, Vagisil, Tucks - I think I've covered just about every possibility here :D Consider this your "American Express Medical Kit" and don't leave home without it ;)

 

Bon Voyage!

Chris

[Loonbeam]

By paying for the service (the Doc is not going to provide for free) , Princess would put them in a position to be included in a lawsuit if there was a problem with the treatment. Eventually they would get released, but that would incur costs. Paying for a service makes it a service offered by Princess, not the Doctor.

 

The key word there is "Liability". Where is Princess' liability? How is it their fault someone catches a virus? There is no fault in cases of noro.

[fathercop]

There is a concept in the law called "strict liability" which is liability without fault. When a company invites the public on board its ship for a fee, it has certain responsibilities to provide a safe environment. If the noro originated from the galley, a crew member or Princess Cay, it could be liable. If a passenger brought it on board, then probably not. But it's a moot point because the origin will never be proven. But it is incorrect to say that there is no fault. Someone infected someone else. The infector is at fault. The infected is not.

 

JimmyVWine, I have a strange sense you are a lawyer.

[HaliMakai]

Chris, so Imodium and pain relivers? Seems simple enough, did you try to keep hydrated?

[cruzinchris]

Chris, so Imodium and pain relivers? Seems simple enough, did you try to keep hydrated?

 

Yes, this is exactly what the ship's nurse recommended, and I never have a problem drinking water or Perrier to stay hydrated. I also did what the nurse suggested and ordered light meals from the special room service menu: I started with clear chicken broth, hot tea, bland crackers. Later in the afternoon, I had chicken soup w/veggies, a plain roll, Jello, hot tea, and DH brought me ginger ale from a bar. The next morning, I was feeling much better and ordered oatmeal, dry toast, and hot tea. The Nurse called me at 10:30 and said that I was free to leave my stateroom as I had no more symptoms; my confinement last about 24 hours.

 

This was not a particularly pleasant way to spend my birthday and the second formal night of the voyage, but the nurse was lovely, very caring and concerned, and I wasn't charged for her in-room visit or follow-up phone calls to check on my condition.

 

Bon Voyage!

Chris

[Nebr.cruiser]

How can the cruise line be expected to pay for anyone's medical expenses..... Unless they like throw someone down the stairs or something.....

 

Not Princess, but when one of our grandsons got sick last year on RCI, (they never said it was Noro, and I'm not convinced it was, either) he was treated for no cost--my husband took him to the medical center, he was given medication for his symptoms and was over it in less than 24 hours.

 

He was confined to his room for 24 hours and provided with free pop and movies. His room was cleaned thoroughly--twice--after he vomited. My husband, who was in the room with him and another grandson--was not confined to the room, but spent most of his time there, leaving for meals and to check in with the rest of us. The other grandson moved to the family OV room we had with the rest of us for the 24 hours--not required too, we just thought it best.

 

So, I was pleased with how RCI handled it and very, very pleased that no one else got sick; I can just imagine how much fun the trip home would have been with seven (well, six, as the first was over it) sick kids! Not to mention us!

[Tralynn]

There is a concept in the law called "strict liability" which is liability without fault. When a company invites the public on board its ship for a fee, it has certain responsibilities to provide a safe environment. If the noro originated from the galley, a crew member or Princess Cay, it could be liable. If a passenger brought it on board, then probably not. But it's a moot point because the origin will never be proven. But it is incorrect to say that there is no fault. Someone infected someone else. The infector is at fault. The infected is not.

My point was that if the fault cannot be shown or proven, the Liability Insurance is not going to pay and neither is any court. Someone was asking why doesn't Princess' liability policy just not pay for the medical services, and I was answering their question since I had worked in the insurance field for years. Of course "someone" is at fault for being the first with the virus, but it's that oh so pesky PROOF of fault that nixes it. Basically, NO PROOF, NO FAULT, NO LIABILITY INSURANCE PAYMENT.

[geoherb]

DH got a sinus infection on our Island Princess cruise. We filed the claim with his personal health insurance and then submitted what that did not cover to Princess's insurance company, which paid us the difference.

[JimmyVWine]

However, wouldn't the cruiseline have to be found negligent, i.e., not cleaning the ship, not taking precautions when cases occur, etc.?

 

No. That is where "general negligence" and "strict liability" differ. The former requires proof of fault, or negligence. The latter does not. Here is a quick "legal dictionary" definition":

 

Strict liability, sometimes called absolute liability, is the legal responsibility for damages, or injury, even if the person found strictly liable was not at fault or negligent.

 

A business has an obligation to provide its invitee a premises that is in a reasonably safe condition. As I posted above, that means that a business could have no liability if a customer caught a virus from another customer. I think that food poisoning is the easiest analogy to draw. A restaurant would have no liability for you getting food poisoning if a patron at an adjoining table poisoned your food while you weren't looking. But if you get food poisoning from the restaurant's kitchen, it is no defense for the restaurant to say; "I didn't know that the food was contaminated." You are a paying customer, and the restaurant poisoned you. End of story. You don't need to prove that the restaurant had a faulty fridge, or anything of the sort.

 

With noro, it wouldn't be any different. If a crew member with noro came up to you and sneezed in your face, that wouldn't be any different than a waiter serving you poisoned food. But as you point out, this is simply not provable, so the whole thing becomes academic.

 

As for the poster above who suggest that I read the cruise contract. I have:

15. LIMITATIONS ON CARRIER'S LIABILITY; INDEMNIFICATION.

 

• ....(B) Acts Beyond Carrier’s Control: Carrier is not liable for death, injury, illness, damage, delay or other loss to person or property of any kind caused by an Act of God; war; civil commotions; labor trouble; terrorism, crime or other potential sources of harm; governmental interference; perils of the sea; fire; or any other cause beyond Carrier's reasonable control, ....
  

Very simple. The carrier is not liable for things beyond its control. So if a passenger is the source of the noro, then that is beyond the carrier's control. No liability. But the employees and the ship itself are squarely within the carrier's control. So if the source could be proven to have been either of those, the cruise contract provides no source of legal immunity. The bottom line is that the carrier escapes liability because the source cannot be proven. Not because the law, or the cruise contract create some sort of legal immunity. There are a whole host of lawyers in Florida who make their living suing cruise lines. (I am not one). Do you think that they would make a living if the cruise contract made every case open and shut?

[hubofhockey]

I think the cases get much stronger for plaintiffs with each subsequent cruise aboard an infected ship because it probably shows that the cruise line didn't do enough to disinfect the ship or quarantine the crewmembers. But as others have written on this thread, proof is very tough here and you also have to deal with maritime law and maritime lawyers and going through discovery on a small claim of $100 to $400 claim probably isn't worth it for any maritime attorney.

 

I hope the cruise lines are giving notice to their passengers upon boarding that the ship has been infected with the norovirus and for passengers to take the appropriate precautions.

[Gregcathy]

In reading the postings there are two camps regarding payment for noro treatment. While I agree the cruise ships may not be the only cause for passengers catching the virus, the passengers are also not the only cause as well. (maybe better screening of sick passangers, ship cleaning, etc. )

 

If you were to go to a local restrauant and catch a food borne virus, would you be as understanding as many are towards the cruise lines???

 

Many of us pay good money for a nice cruise. I know if I went to Disney World and most of the rides were closed I would be a very unhappy consumer. Same applies to a cruise ship, they may not create the problems but they still share in preventing the problems. Is it hard, likley, but they do get paid well and by lots of people to have a great vacation event.

[Oxo]

In reading the postings there are two camps regarding payment for noro treatment. While I agree the cruise ships may not be the only cause for passengers catching the virus, the passengers are also not the only cause as well. (maybe better screening of sick passangers, ship cleaning, etc. )/QUOTE]

 

How would you suggest that the cruise lines do a better screening of sick passengers?

 

This is like saying that the TSA should do a better job screening passengers. There is no way to ensure each passenger is well or safe.