Tipping

[SissasMomE]

How do you know they were removing their DSC, because they were in line at Guest Relations? On my first and only (so far) NCL cruise, I went to Guest Relations the last night, because I wanted to pay my bill in cash (I won in the casino) instead of my Visa. I guess that you would assume I went to take off the DSC because I was in that line, at which case you would have been sorely wrong.

 

I think from reading the rash of complaining described here, that they were probably removing (or trying to remove) the DSC. I never understood that either - the complaining while on vacation. :rolleyes:

[NLH Arizona]

That's a real shame, and it's even more of a shame that they can't unionize and get better wages, medical care, etc. On one hand, they have no overhead - no rent, no food bills, etc., on the other hand, it would be pretty hard to save money to buy a house just on tips alone. I am always leary of the stories from crew members who state how little they make. If they were making $60k a year, would they really tell you? Regardless, if you were eating out 3 meals a day, you'd tip way more than $12, so I don't see why anyone would want to remove it.

Cruise Jobs says a waiter makes between $2,500 and $4,000 a month depending on tips. An assistant waiter makes between $1,500 and $3,000 a month depending on tips. A Cabin Steward, they say, makes between $1,800 and $2,200, again depending on tips. Assistant Cabin Steward $1,200 to $1,500 a month depending on tips. Wondering if they pay taxes on their income?

[NLH Arizona]

I think from reading the rash of complaining described here, that they were probably removing (or trying to remove) the DSC. I never understood that either - the complaining while on vacation. :rolleyes:

You like the other poster are just assuming that they removed it because they were complaining. I've met many a curmudgeon who were very generous.

[sfgnts324]

I understand your point, but I don't think I could not give a tip to someone who has basically served me in one form or another all week. Not for the price of a NCL cruise.

 

Totally, Of course we would still tip. I guess the point I'm trying to convey is if the cruise lines want to pay their employees just add the DSC into the cruise fare and stop making it a hidden charge. If they add it into the fare than we (cruisers) can decide how much extra we would like to give an employee, if any. It would be purely a bonus tip as the tips are added into the cruise fare.

[NLH Arizona]

Totally, Of course we would still tip. I guess the point I'm trying to convey is if the cruise lines want to pay their employees just add the DSC into the cruise fare and stop making it a hidden charge. If they add it into the fare than we (cruisers) can decide how much extra we would like to give an employee, if any. It would be purely a bonus tip as the tips are added into the cruise fare.

Totally agree - I would have no problem with the DSC being added as part of the fare cost, so that the crew gets a fair wage. I believe most would tip, because passengers would either not care or soon forget that the service charge is include, and that would be a win/win for the crew.

[Charles4515]

Totally agree - I would have no problem with the DSC being added as part of the fare cost, so that the crew gets a fair wage. I believe most would tip, because passengers would either not care or soon forget that the service charge is include, and that would be a win/win for the crew.

 

Yes but then reason the cruise lines don't want to do that is a number of reasons. Tax reasons but a big reason is that they want to keep the commission part of the fare low. That is why the keep gratuities, taxes and port charges separate from the fare.

[SissasMomE]

Cruise Jobs says a waiter makes between $2,500 and $4,000 a month depending on tips. An assistant waiter makes between $1,500 and $3,000 a month depending on tips. A Cabin Steward, they say, makes between $1,800 and $2,200, again depending on tips. Assistant Cabin Steward $1,200 to $1,500 a month depending on tips. Wondering if they pay taxes on their income?

 

I don't think they do. Who would they pay taxes to? For not having rent, electric, and a food bill, those salaries are not bad at all. That's why it bothers me when I hear the sob stories .... who do you believe?!

[SissasMomE]

Totally, Of course we would still tip. I guess the point I'm trying to convey is if the cruise lines want to pay their employees just add the DSC into the cruise fare and stop making it a hidden charge. If they add it into the fare than we (cruisers) can decide how much extra we would like to give an employee, if any. It would be purely a bonus tip as the tips are added into the cruise fare.

 

Oh - yes. I do agree with you.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't think they do. Who would they pay taxes to? For not having rent, electric, and a food bill, those salaries are not bad at all. That's why it bothers me when I hear the sob stories .... who do you believe?!

I was thinking they might have to pay income taxes in their native country.

[njhorseman]

Cruise Jobs says a waiter makes between $2,500 and $4,000 a month depending on tips. An assistant waiter makes between $1,500 and $3,000 a month depending on tips. A Cabin Steward, they say, makes between $1,800 and $2,200, again depending on tips. Assistant Cabin Steward $1,200 to $1,500 a month depending on tips. Wondering if they pay taxes on their income?

 

No one working on a foreign flagged ship is liable for US taxes unless they are a citizen or resident of the US...and there are virtually no US citizens/residents who work as wait staff or cabin stewards...the "tipped" employee job categories. The relatively small number of US citizens working on the ships are generally in salaried positions on the cruise director's staff, including kid's club counselors. (Of course the Pride of America is US flagged and sails in US waters...and most of the crew are required to be US citizens.)

 

The non US citizens who comprise the overwhelming majority of the tipped crew may be liable for taxes in their home countries...but that depends on the laws of those countries.

[NLH Arizona]

No one working on a foreign flagged ship is liable for US taxes unless they are a citizen or resident of the US...and there are virtually no US citizens/residents who work as wait staff or cabin stewards...the "tipped" employee job categories. The relatively small number of US citizens working on the ships are generally in salaried positions on the cruise director's staff, including kid's club counselors. (Of course the Pride of America is US flagged and sails in US waters...and most of the crew are required to be US citizens.)

 

The non US citizens who comprise the overwhelming majority of the tipped crew may be liable for taxes in their home countries...but that depends on the laws of those countries.

Never thought they would pay US taxes; it was their native country's taxes I was asking about.

[SissasMomE]

I was thinking they might have to pay income taxes in their native country.

 

Duh! I knew that ;) LOL That's what I get for staying on cruise critic all day ....

[njhorseman]

Yes but then reason the cruise lines don't want to do that is a number of reasons. Tax reasons but a big reason is that they want to keep the commission part of the fare low. That is why the keep gratuities, taxes and port charges separate from the fare.

 

Commission and taxes really aren't big reasons. Virtually all corporate tax is on profit...net income...not gross receipts. If the cruise line is collecting $1,000,000 in additional fare for the purpose of paying crew salaries and actually paying out that $1,000,000 in salary, their increase in net profit is $0...so corporate income tax is not affected because corporate net income (profit) is not affected.

 

Nor are commissions an issue. Passengers are already permitted to prepay their service charges, and no commission is paid today on that money. All the cruise line has to do is bucket the amount added to base fare that is attributable to what is service charge/salary as part of the non commissionable fare.

 

The real reason that the cruise lines want to keep the current system in place is for marketing purposes. If full salaries were built into the fare then cruise lines could no longer advertise lead-in prices for one week cruises as low as $299-$399. Adding $100 to that makes the fares substantially less attractive. Their marketing strategy revolves around getting passengers to book by offering fares that are as low as possible .

[Don Haynes]

Commission and taxes really aren't big reasons. Virtually all corporate tax is on profit...net income...not gross receipts. If the cruise line is collecting $1,000,000 in additional fare for the purpose of paying crew salaries and actually paying out that $1,000,000 in salary, their increase in net profit is $0...so corporate income tax is not affected because corporate net income (profit) is not affected.

 

Nor are commissions an issue. Passengers are already permitted to prepay their service charges, and no commission is paid today on that money. All the cruise line has to do is bucket the amount added to base fare that is attributable to what is service charge/salary as part of the non commissionable fare.

 

The real reason that the cruise lines want to keep the current system in place is for marketing purposes. If full salaries were built into the fare then cruise lines could no longer advertise lead-in prices for one week cruises as low as $299-$399. Adding $100 to that makes the fares substantially less attractive. Their marketing strategy revolves around getting passengers to book by offering fares that are as low as possible .

 

Furthermore, cruisers are cheap. Most choose upon price, and will buy a competitor's product if only to save one dollar. There is a reason why most consumer products Americans buy today are built abroad. And even those products that are still being manufactured in America are being built with foreign parts. While Walmart has grown significantly, other former first class department stores are closing stores throughout the country. Within two generations Americans have become more a service based workforce from being a manufacturing workforce.

 

Every new car auto dealership will confirm everyone wants retail for their trade in and a wholesale price for the new purchase. Even here at Cruise Critic, there are tons of threads attempting to get a lower price for a cruise, one way or another.

[NLH Arizona]

Furthermore, cruisers are cheap. Most choose upon price, and will buy a competitor's product if only to save one dollar. There is a reason why most consumer products Americans buy today are built abroad. And even those products that are still being manufactured in America are being built with foreign parts. While Walmart has grown significantly, other former first class department stores are closing stores throughout the country. Within two generations Americans have become more a service based workforce from being a manufacturing workforce.

 

Every new car auto dealership will confirm everyone wants retail for their trade in and a wholesale price for the new purchase. Even here at Cruise Critic, there are tons of threads attempting to get a lower price for a cruise, one way or another.

Wow, no one has ever called me cheap, usually just the opposite. Judging a group of people and generalizing that they are all cheap....Wow!

[Don Haynes]

Wow, no one has ever called me cheap, usually just the opposite. Judging a group of people and generalizing that they are all cheap....Wow!

 

I didn't mean to offend anyone, did you read the rest of what I wrote? Even Steve Jobs at Apple remarked what the customer wants when he didn't commission a marketing study. In this order: cheaper, faster, then better. Not in any other order. Steve Jobs knew it wasn't rocket science. No main line cruise line will include the daily surcharge until all of the main line cruise lines agree to do so at the same time. If folks will choose over a dollar, they will also do so for more than one hundred dollars.

[Burpelson]

Here's some insight on why this system is particularly needed in the Freestyle context, from an interview with an NCL hotel director:

 

"Under the traditional more structured system, the passenger is served by one stewardess, one

waiter, one busboy, throughout the voyage and at the end of the voyage the passenger normally

tips the people that he or she has come to know. With Freestyle, many different crew members

may serve a given passenger and the passenger may not form a relationship with any of them.

Therefore, Norwegian adds a $10 a day service charge to the passenger’s onboard account

which is pooled and distributed to the service staff."

http://www.beyondships.com/NCLDawn-LeTallec.html

[jdvmd]

Here's some insight on why this system is particularly needed in the Freestyle context, from an interview with an NCL hotel director:

 

"Under the traditional more structured system, the passenger is served by one stewardess, one

waiter, one busboy, throughout the voyage and at the end of the voyage the passenger normally

tips the people that he or she has come to know. With Freestyle, many different crew members

may serve a given passenger and the passenger may not form a relationship with any of them.

Therefore, Norwegian adds a $10 a day service charge to the passenger’s onboard account

which is pooled and distributed to the service staff."

 

http://www.beyondships.com/NCLDawn-LeTallec.html

Not sure how old the interview is as NCL charges $12 per person, not $10.

[Burpelson]

It's May 2008, which I only got from just now opening the printer friendly pdf. But the substance seems on target, IMHO.

[cruzsnooze]

Thanks for the advice! We are stuck with NCL now since we are all booked and paid for. So we will see how it goes. I think the problem is that being American it is beat into our head that we have to tip tip tip all the time, and I always feel horrible for not being gracious when tipping. I have stayed at a lot of top notch hotels and never had to pay anymore more then the hotel rooms and taxes. I guess we will see how it goes:)

Do you realize that $48 PER DAY will be added to your bill for tips? That's quite enough.

[njrover0216]

Cruise Jobs says a waiter makes between $2,500 and $4,000 a month depending on tips. An assistant waiter makes between $1,500 and $3,000 a month depending on tips. A Cabin Steward, they say, makes between $1,800 and $2,200, again depending on tips. Assistant Cabin Steward $1,200 to $1,500 a month depending on tips. Wondering if they pay taxes on their income?

 

That is pretty outstanding...considering they also get free room and board when they are on ship, free food, toiletries, laundry, utilities, etc!

[time2cruise1]

That is pretty outstanding...considering they also get free room and board when they are on ship, free food, toiletries, laundry, utilities, etc!

 

If you think so then sign up for the job. You only have to work 7 days a week for 10 months a year 12-14 hours a day away from your family. You won't be booking any cruises.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - Jim

[roger001]

If you think so then sign up for the job. You only have to work 7 days a week for 10 months a year 12-14 hours a day away from your family. You won't be booking any cruises.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - Jim

 

Using the "highest paid" monthly salary figure ($2200), based on the average number of hours worked a month (315), I believe the math says they earn $6.98 an hour. That's just based on an easy 11 hour day...oh yea....7 days a week....week after week. Where do I sign up???

[mypleasure]

I wonder, if the salaries are really this good, why I don't ever see staff from the USA and Western Europe in these positions? Given the current economic situation and lack of employment opportunities for young people in particular, I would think that there would be far more coming through but I am not seeing it.

[jdvmd]

There are many, many members of the staff I have met who do not get a day off. "Maybe next cruise or maybe next month," is their response. That is not a lot of money for the amount of work and hours they keep.