Tipping

[kylenyc]

NCL states it another way: http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/cruiser/cmsPagesPopup.html?pageId=KidsSailAlaskaTerms

"Onboard service charges are additional, discretionary and will be automatically added to your onboard account."

 

Again NCL's own words. So, I have to disagree with you here. The service charges are paid and can be adjusted at the discretion of the passenger. Once paid, it's up to NCL's discretion how those funds are disbursed (i.e. not a gratuity) whether as part of employee salary or programs. Wordsmith all you want, but NCL provides the option for passengers to adjust the service charge making it at the option/discretion of the passenger. You may not like it, I may not like it, the crew certainly won't like it, but that's NCL's compensation program.

 

P.S. I find another aspect of these conversations amusing... When I was a waiter, I don't recall ever once hearing a tipping patron debate with a non-tipping patron "Why didn't you leave a tip, that's wrong!"... I've never heard such a story from other waiters, never heard my boss or the host ever attempt or care to debate with non-tipping patrons, or worry over their waiters being stiffed. It's just a fact of life.

[meltingmoments]

It isn't impossible to not pay the DSC. Thing is, after you remove it you hafta sport a beard because you won't be able to look in a mirror.

 

 

Like this you mean? ;)

 

[luddite]

Like this you mean? ;)

 

[ATTACH]279832[/ATTACH]

 

She's kinda pretty. In a weird sort of way.......

[meltingmoments]

She's kinda pretty. In a weird sort of way.......

 

 

Thank-you!! You know it's me Photoshopped don't you? ( I wish!! );)

[william]

Do miss the old way of tipping. You got to tip who deserved to be tipped and give what you wanted. My husband and I first cruise back in 96 we had an awsome cabin stewart. He was always there and always was helpful. Can't say the same for are waiter. One night my husband wanted chocolate ice cream. Oh I will have to go all they way to the store room downstairs. So my husband did not get his ice cream. This happened like three times that week. Then toward the end of the week the waiter stars crying poor mouth how they live on there tips and is basicaly asking for good tips. Should of thought of that when my husband asked for ice cream. Lets just say are awsome room steward in adddion to his tip got most of are waiters tip. He was very happy and was actually waiting to thank us at are room.

[time2cruise1]

I really don't miss the old way of tipping. The waiter hustle is what I called the daily effort to make sure we knew how hard their life is and make sure many we're guilted into tipping. The old way was almost the end of Freestyle in 2000/1 before it really got going. The wait staff was leaving the ships in waves since they were making next to nothing. It was impossible for even those that wanted to to get an envelope to those they wanted to the last day and excuse for those who really don't like to tip to escape. Nobody was going to carry cash 7x24 to tip as deserved.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - Jim

[TravelDiva88]

I really don't miss the old way of tipping. The waiter hustle is what I called the daily effort to make sure we knew how hard their life is and make sure many we're guilted into tipping.

 

This. We cruised Disney and they still do the awkwardness of the tip envelope hand shake/hand off on the last day of the cruise. We prepaid our gratuities and were given envelopes with a slip inside stating we had prepaid to give to our staff.

 

I much prefer the DSC, leaving an additional gratuity in our stateroom for our steward, and carrying small bills for additional gratuities if our servers truly go above and beyond.

[luddite]

Do miss the old way of tipping. You got to tip who deserved to be tipped and give what you wanted. My husband and I first cruise back in 96 we had an awsome cabin stewart. He was always there and always was helpful. Can't say the same for are waiter. One night my husband wanted chocolate ice cream. Oh I will have to go all they way to the store room downstairs. So my husband did not get his ice cream. This happened like three times that week. Then toward the end of the week the waiter stars crying poor mouth how they live on there tips and is basicaly asking for good tips. Should of thought of that when my husband asked for ice cream. Lets just say are awsome room steward in adddion to his tip got most of are waiters tip. He was very happy and was actually waiting to thank us at are room.

 

You still get to tip that way.

Don't confuse the DSC with tips.

[sjbdtz]

You keep beating with the hammer until the person agrees with your OPINION. Not gonna happen. I have my opinions. You call anyone/anything that does not agree with you foolish. You do realize when you start name-calling most believe you have lost the argument?

 

The DSC is optional, therefore a tip. If it were mandatory it would not be a tip. DSC, gratuity, tip, same concept, different language.

 

See below:

 

 

I feel in most cases withholding the service charge is unethical but I'm not here to debate the ethics of it but rather just to point out that the daily service charge is clearly optional as stated by NCL. You (and I) may not like the fact that people do this but they will.

 

Because this is clearly a service charge (not a gratuity), this means NCL may withhold and/or redistribute the funds at their own discretion not at our (the passengers) discretion. The reason many people are up in arms over the idea of withholding the service charge is because it is a relatively small amount compared to the cost of the cruise and they/we/I don't want to be seen as cheap skates or have a dirty mark on our dossier. I bet if NCL were to raise the service charge to something like $50 per day, the tides would shift on a dime to the question of why is there an additional surcharge that we must pay which goes towards employee salaries and why isn't it part of the base fare to begin with.

 

discretionary = optional

 

Quote directly from ncl.com http://www.events.ncl.com/faq/

Is there a service charge?

We are confident that you will enjoy your Freestyle Cruising experience and that our entire crew will provide you with the standard of service for which we are known. A $12 USD discretionary service charge will be automatically added per guest per day (for guests three years and older) to your shipboard account for all staterooms. This charge will be shared among those staff members, including the restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and other behind-the-scenes staff who provide services that enhance your overall cruise experience. These service charges can be paid in advance of your cruise by contacting your Program Specialist.

 

If you have any concerns about the service you receive during your cruise, please let our onboard Guest Services Desk staff know right away, so we can address any issues in a timely manner. In the unlikely event that we can't resolve your issue, you can have the service charge adjusted onboard.

 

 

Just wondering why you didn't highlight the part I enlarged?

 

It's been a while since I programmed computers, or studied philosophy, but it strikes me that the 'discretion' is wrapped-up in an IF / THEN condition.

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[kylenyc]

See below:

Just wondering why you didn't highlight the part I enlarged?

 

It's been a while since I programmed computers, or studied philosophy, but it strikes me that the 'discretion' is wrapped-up in an IF / THEN condition.

 

Stephen

NCL states that it's discretionary and provide a means to remove the DSC which reinforces that it's discretionary. What you highlighted doesn't change that IMO. Plus, I don't need to explain all the things that I don't do? That would be a very long conversation. :confused:

 

Again, just because something is optional isn't the determining factor of whether it's a gratuity vs a service charge. The NCL Daily Service Charge is both optional/discretionary and a service charge.

• Optional because NCL states so

• A service charge because it's NCL (the employer) who determines how the money is distributed: either directly to employee salaries, to employee welfare programs, etc. A gratuity on the other hand is always paid from patron to employee and may not be withheld by the employer.

 

If NCL were to say 100% of the $12 DSC is paid entirely to employees, then I believe that would make it a gratuity, but they don't. We have no direct say in how the money is distributed. We have an indirect say via complaints and "Vacation Hero" compliments. NCL ultimately decides.

[sjbdtz]

NCL states that it's discretionary and provide a means to remove the DSC which reinforces that it's discretionary. What you highlighted doesn't change that IMO. Plus, I don't need to explain all the things that I don't do? That would be a very long conversation. :confused:

 

Again, just because something is optional isn't the determining factor of whether it's a gratuity vs a service charge. The NCL Daily Service Charge is both optional/discretionary and a service charge.

• Optional because NCL states so

• A service charge because it's NCL (the employer) who determines how the money is distributed: either directly to employee salaries, to employee welfare programs, etc. A gratuity on the other hand is always paid from patron to employee and may not be withheld by the employer.

 

If NCL were to say 100% of the $12 DSC is paid entirely to employees, then I believe that would make it a gratuity, but they don't. We have no direct say in how the money is distributed. We have an indirect say via complaints and "Vacation Hero" compliments. NCL ultimately decides.

 

 

Fair enough. I was asking rhetorically, but I respect your response.

 

I guarantee that on other cruiselines where the DSC is mandatory....that if the Maitre d' swore at you in front of the Hotel Director, they'd allow you to reduce your DSC.

 

In your books that makes it discretionary. Therefore, and henceforth, all DSCs on all cruiselines are discretionary.

 

Except that none of them are, except in exceptional circumstances.

 

 

That's the point I was making.

 

 

.

[ozzycruzer]

As a non-US resident, I just thought I'd pop in a question about general restaurant tipping as this forum clearly has some readers interested in the subject:

 

So I understand that waiter wages are low in USA and that staff rely on gratuities to earn a decent wage. I like this concept as I feel it encourages better service.

I also understand that tips are generally divided amongst other staff - bartenders (unless you pay and tip directly at the bar), busboys, possibly kitchen staff (?) etc

 

I know there will be MORE staff in an expensive restaurant than at a family diner.

 

However, I am still unhappy with the proposition that the staff at the upmarket restaurant get to split my $40 tip on a $200 meal (with wine) whereas the staff at a budget eatery only get my $5 from a $25 meal.

 

Should I be tipping possibly $25 on top of the $25 meal?

 

At the extreme end, even in an upmarket restaurant, why should the tip on a $200 bottle of wine be $40 when just as much service is provided on a $40 bottle?

[Love my butler]

 

If NCL were to say 100% of the $12 DSC is paid entirely to employees, then I believe that would make it a gratuity, but they don't. We have no direct say in how the money is distributed. We have an indirect say via complaints and "Vacation Hero" compliments. NCL ultimately decides.

 

Correct, you have no direct say in how the DSC is distributed. However, you simply remove the DSC charge from your account and cash tip anyone you feel is worthy. You now have complete say in how your tips are distributed.

 

Don't believe any of the hogwash about the crew turning in cash tips if you remove the DSC, it's a scare tactic with no truth behind it.

[SteveH2508]

There are quite a few research papers here.http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers.html

 

No, I have not read all of them - I have a life! :D

[Charles4515]

Correct, you have no direct say in how the DSC is distributed. However, you simply remove the DSC charge from your account and cash tip anyone you feel is worthy. You now have complete say in how your tips are distributed.

 

Don't believe any of the hogwash about the crew turning in cash tips if you remove the DSC, it's a scare tactic with no truth behind it.

 

It is the truth that they turn it in. I don't and never have worked for a cruise line but I have seen tip pools in action at another business. Those who don't turn in the tips become former employees very fast.

 

No matter what system is used we won't have complete say how tips are distributed. Pool or not tips will be redistributed from what we tip! If it is not a pool then the immediate recipients tip out to the behind the scenes employees.

[SeaShark]

Correct, you have no direct say in how the DSC is distributed. However, you simply remove the DSC charge from your account and cash tip anyone you feel is worthy. You now have complete say in how your tips are distributed.

 

Don't believe any of the hogwash about the crew turning in cash tips if you remove the DSC, it's a scare tactic with no truth behind it.

 

Firstly, you always have a say in how your tips are distributed. There is no need to scheme to come up with a way to do this. You won't have a say in how the DSC, or any other monies paid to the company, is distributed...that is their money to allocate, not yours (or mine).

 

Second, I know you don't care about facts...especially those that don't fit your narrative, but it HAS been confirmed...multiple times...that the crew does have to turn in tips from customers who do not pay the DSC. There have even been photographs taken during behind the scenes tours that were posted on these boards showing the lists of guests who haven't paid their DSC so that the crew knows who that cannot accept tips from.

[Charles4515]

As a non-US resident, I just thought I'd pop in a question about general restaurant tipping as this forum clearly has some readers interested in the subject:

 

So I understand that waiter wages are low in USA and that staff rely on gratuities to earn a decent wage. I like this concept as I feel it encourages better service.

I also understand that tips are generally divided amongst other staff - bartenders (unless you pay and tip directly at the bar), busboys, possibly kitchen staff (?) etc

 

I know there will be MORE staff in an expensive restaurant than at a family diner.

 

However, I am still unhappy with the proposition that the staff at the upmarket restaurant get to split my $40 tip on a $200 meal (with wine) whereas the staff at a budget eatery only get my $5 from a $25 meal.

 

Should I be tipping possibly $25 on top of the $25 meal?

 

At the extreme end, even in an upmarket restaurant, why should the tip on a $200 bottle of wine be $40 when just as much service is provided on a $40 bottle?

 

I think the concept in the US is wrong. The servers should be paid a decent wage and not rely on gratuities. But that is what we have so we will tip until our culture or laws change. I won't screw the workers because I don't agree with the system. Same on cruise ships. I don't agree with the way they are compensated but I won't screw them because I don't agree.

 

As far as upmarket restaurants if you spend $200 on a bottle of wine you should not be worrying about the tip.

 

As an aside a study was done on wines recently where they switched the low priced and high priced bottles. People rated the taste based on what they were told was the price than what was actually the price. They rated the low priced wine the best when they were told it was the high priced wine.

[luddite]

As a non-US resident, I just thought I'd pop in a question about general restaurant tipping as this forum clearly has some readers interested in the subject:

 

So I understand that waiter wages are low in USA and that staff rely on gratuities to earn a decent wage. I like this concept as I feel it encourages better service.

I also understand that tips are generally divided amongst other staff - bartenders (unless you pay and tip directly at the bar), busboys, possibly kitchen staff (?) etc

 

I know there will be MORE staff in an expensive restaurant than at a family diner.

 

However, I am still unhappy with the proposition that the staff at the upmarket restaurant get to split my $40 tip on a $200 meal (with wine) whereas the staff at a budget eatery only get my $5 from a $25 meal.

 

Should I be tipping possibly $25 on top of the $25 meal?

 

At the extreme end, even in an upmarket restaurant, why should the tip on a $200 bottle of wine be $40 when just as much service is provided on a $40 bottle?

 

Annnnddddd,.....this has what to do with cruising?

[Barb Nahoumi]

She's kinda pretty. In a weird sort of way.......

 

Looks like a whiskery Jennifer Aniston

[NLH Arizona]

Don't believe any of the hogwash about the crew turning in cash tips if you remove the DSC, it's a scare tactic with no truth behind it.

Could you please supply the facts behind this statement, so that we will all know.

[Beaver1975]

Could you please supply the facts behind this statement, so that we will all know.

 

Facts just get in the way of some people's crusade.

[DMH15]

Facts just get in the way of some people's crusade.

 

And most people see right through it.

 

After a while you come to expect it from certain posters. Grain of salt, please.

[SteveH2508]

And most people see right through it.

 

After a while you come to expect it from certain posters. Grain of salt, please.

 

Grain of salt - an armful more like! Glad I'm not their butler! ;)

[martyandjanice]

I don't know if anyone else has stated this in this thread, but, the way I see this whole tipping issue is: You cannot go anywhere, pay what we pay to cruise, get the full service we get, free meals at anytime and at many different places, visiting different ports, transportation, great views, pools, spas, shows, games, great memories and fun for the cost of a cruise. Including the tips. Especially if you have children that go to the kids club and have babysitters to watch them for a few hours a day. I will gladly pay tips/gratuities/service charge, whatever you call it because it's well worth it. Sometimes we run into those odd servers or room attendants that don't do as well as others. If it's a major thing that is not corrected, then adjust as you see fit. I personally, don't decrease the charge because whatever I get from the cruise is worth every penny just because I make the most of the situation. Have a great cruise! :)

[cruisendave]

I have been where you are, wanting an answer to a question, and getting too many opinions and rude comments. I found the tipping vs service charge thing a little confusing too, and didn't realize (prior to having my hands slapped by fellow cc members) that the kids care folks were not included in the tipping. I am sure you will have a great cruise, and will be happy with the service.