What went wrong and why

[Mom33]

The term used was "greed" which is much different than simply making money.;)

 

Mike:)

 

You are referring to one post. I am referring to many posts negative to Princess

finding new ways to improve their profit margins.:D

[caribill]

Concerning profit on a new ship like the Royal, here is the RCCL experience with their Behemoths of the Sea.

 

"The profitability of the new ships is simply awesome. For example, our ships built since 2006 generate about 25% more revenue per berth than the older vessels. And those older vessels cost roughly 20% more per berth to operate. As a result, our newer ships generate about 3.5x the cash flow of our older vessels. Oasis and Allure of the Seas are probably the most energy-efficient cruise ships in the world. And their fuel consumption is roughly 25% better than the rest of our fleet. Yet Quantum, coming out next year, is actually even better. On a like-for-like basis, they have taken advantage of further advances in technology and by focusing on the details they have designed what should be a new standard in energy efficiency." (Info from Seeking Alpha" transcript of RCCL quarterly earnings analysis)

[AZbeachboy]

[quote][/quote]

It's a great philosophical debate. If a person's first candy bar is a 1.6 oz Almond Joy that she bought for $1 and she enjoyed it, and some old-timer tells her that a few years ago, $0.50 could buy a 2.4 oz bar, does the first person like her candy bar any less? The old-timer is going to grouse about "things not being what they used to be." The newcomer is going to overlook that which she never had in the first place. Maybe.

 

.50? My God they were .05 in my day for Almond Mounds. (I like the nuts) Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. So I stopped eating them.:D::p

 

Actually I stopped eating them because they were not good for me as I got older. In addition, I am not an old timer, I am actually pretty progressive and accepting.:)

[spyro1952]

I wrote my review of our cruise on the Royal...5*... Everyone in our family loved the cruise!

 

Agree with prior poster about reviews...many of the two star reviews of the Royal (which probably go into the calculation of member review satisfaction) were from the two day preview cruises...and IMHO I would not place as much credence in these as I would those on the 12 day voyage. Initially DH and I found the ship a bit confusing, as it was different from the other ships, but then once we got accustomed we fell for her!! Had I written my review after two days, it may have been a bit different.

 

I totally agree with sunsetbeachgal & Pam. One needs to be on a ship for more than just a couple of days to give it a fair review. I know there has been a lot of negative comments about the small balconies but with so much to experience on a new ship such as the Royal (or Regal), how much time are you really going to spend out there? If you're going to spend all your time on your small balcony, then you're really not going to experience all that these new ships have to offer.

I am also looking forward to my 2 trips on the new Royal and experiencing all that is has to offer, not just smaller balconies. :)

[hjgold58]

Hi,

:) you have a great attitude. We are going on the Royal sept. 27 and also took an inside room. The room is when you sleep not so much to hang out. But people have different preferences. I would be more concerned about the quality of the food and the look of the ship, hey its new so how bad could it be. Bravo to you about your attitude.

[The Big Booper]

Concerning profit on a new ship like the Royal, here is the RCCL experience with their Behemoths of the Sea.

 

"The profitability of the new ships is simply awesome. For example, our ships built since 2006 generate about 25% more revenue per berth than the older vessels. And those older vessels cost roughly 20% more per berth to operate. As a result, our newer ships generate about 3.5x the cash flow of our older vessels. Oasis and Allure of the Seas are probably the most energy-efficient cruise ships in the world. And their fuel consumption is roughly 25% better than the rest of our fleet. Yet Quantum, coming out next year, is actually even better. On a like-for-like basis, they have taken advantage of further advances in technology and by focusing on the details they have designed what should be a new standard in energy efficiency." (Info from Seeking Alpha" transcript of RCCL quarterly earnings analysis)

 

To further summarize this point, RCI has 15 years experience designing large ships holding large amounts of people and knows what it is doing. Oasis class with their 6,000 pax load factors hardly ever feels crowded.

 

I started to get interested in Princess again after avoiding it during the 12 years of the Super-Grand era (poorly designed ships carrying too many pax for their size.). The thread title about "Royal Princess, poorly Solstesized" caught my eye. Hey, If Princess is now copying the Celebrity S Class, that sounds good since the S ships are gorgeous and function very well.

 

But unfortunately, the title proved prophetic as Princess made many design errors that will turn off many cruisers, especially in the family category. People who only cruise Princess will stick with the Royal/Regal out of loyalty but what about people like us who jump around and are familiar with other lines and ships.

 

RCI has the 2 Oasis class and all 3 Independence class ships running out of Florida during the fall/winter season, all with at least 4 pools including the very large kids pools with the fantastic water sculptures. The Royal might get some families for the first season but what do you think the repeat rate will be? And once word gets around about the lack of stuff and pools for the kids, how many families will choose this class.

 

And as far as adult only cruises, 3 or 4 of the 5 S ships will be running out of Florida, each with 1 large open pool and 1 very large glassed in pool. For a generation that likes pools but is afraid of the sun, the Solarium glassed in pools are great.

 

I see the Royal/Regal class being successful in Europe where everybody runs off the ship daily from 8 to 8 and maybe Florida where people who are not ready for HAL's assisted living ships and don't want the S class super modern class and vibe (think a mixture of South Beach and Manhattan's SOHO/East Side/DUMBO ), will gravitate to.

 

And as a last thought, RCI will be rolling out 2 updated Oasis class ships in the next few years while the first two go off to Europe and Asia. To be followed by 3 or 4 Quantum class ships. These ships are/will be widely popular overseas in South America, Asia and Europe. And after that, maybe new updates of the S ships.

 

A very well managed rapid expansion of the fleet while after 12 years since the launch of the CB and it's 3 sisters, Princess has spawned....the somewhat flawed Royal/Regal class.

[bdjam]

Just an observation, if you please. What of those who have never cruised, or dined in your 'restaurant', and they come upon this 'change', but they never knew what it was like before? Maybe they won't be 'indifferent' but actually like what they have in front of them? Sure the old patrons may go away or choose the same name 'restaurant' in a different locale that may have the same old menu items, but the new patrons won't know if it is inferior or not. And they may love it.

So are you suggesting that Princess built Royal and Regal Princesses without any regard for it's past passengers - those of us who know the Princess product and can see where things went wrong in the design of this ship? Is that why Princess marketed the ship when the original renderings came out as something to satisfy it's loyal passenger base?

Money, money money. Should Princess try to make a profit? Should they find ways to make money in which the average cruiser can still afford to take a cruise? Or should they raise prices across the whole fleet and risk leaving some cruisers at the dock watching the ships sail away?

Princess could have been just as successful making a profit with these new ships by retaining the features that were either eliminated or made "for tariff" from the Grand Class. The fact that the ship has a low approval rating may have negated all of those additional revenue generating "amenities" that have been built into these ships.

Over the passage of time, Royal will no longer have the new ship smell and people will stop booking her just because they want to try out the latest thing.

I don't know - it would seem that Seawalk will keep people entranced for years and years :rolleyes: (I say sarcastically of course).

If you're going to spend all your time on your small balcony, then you're really not going to experience all that these new ships have to offer.

BINGO! Princess would rather you be spending time in their for-pay venues than relaxing out on your comfortable balcony - it could be argued that this is the objective behind building them smaller.

A very well managed rapid expansion of the fleet while after 12 years since the launch of the CB and it's 3 sisters, Princess has spawned....the somewhat flawed Royal/Regal class.

Yeah - I'm not a fan by any means of RCI, but I'm afraid you've got it right...

[Samanthamelody3]

You know, there's something "wrong" with every ship when you think about it. Some people like the small ships, others like the large. The Grand doesn't have a central staircase, the Sun-class ships have "cut from the hull" small balconies, many Grand-class ships don't have a true Promenade where you can stroll around the deck or relax in a lounger and watch the waves, some have an IC while others don't, some have Skywalkers while others don't, some have an Adagio Lounge while others don't, some have a Cafe Caribe while others don't, a few have Alfredo's while the rest don't, etc. I could go on and on.

 

If a ship does or doesn't have a feature you like or want doesn't mean it's "wrong." It's just different. Not every ship appeals to or is right for everyone. We have choices.

 

I'm looking forward to my two Royal cruises.

 

This is so true! There is no way you can ever please everyone!

[billco]

I totally agree with sunsetbeachgal & Pam. One needs to be on a ship for more than just a couple of days to give it a fair review. I know there has been a lot of negative comments about the small balconies but with so much to experience on a new ship such as the Royal (or Regal), how much time are you really going to spend out there? If you're going to spend all your time on your small balcony, then you're really not going to experience all that these new ships have to offer.

I am also looking forward to my 2 trips on the new Royal and experiencing all that is has to offer, not just smaller balconies. :)

It will be interesting to see the live posts and reviews that come out during and after a transatlantic cruise filled with long time Princess cruisers. IMO, seven days at sea can go a long way toward determining how a ship measures up.

[Pam in CA]

It will be interesting to see the live posts and reviews that come out during and after a transatlantic cruise filled with long time Princess cruisers. IMO, seven days at sea can go a long way toward determining how a ship measures up.

Just wait for the T/A and Pia's "Live" thread in October. There are several long time CC posters, including yourself, on this cruise and you can be sure we'll all add our observations (and opinions) to Pia's thread. You'll get different perspectives.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

Hope we get many folks on the TA posting

 

Yours Shogun

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Forums mobile app

[Loonbeam]

That pretty much sums it up.

 

It's also important to remember that cruise critic users represent a very small portion of the cruise market but are much more knowledgeable about options,

 

I'd say 75% of cruisers do almost no research whatsoever, just take whatever their TA sells them or they see on sale. I strongly suspect that if you took one of these and had them sail on Royal, then lets say Grand, a good portion of them might not even notice the difference. I have personally heard people tell my TA they found no difference between Princess and Carnival at all.

 

For a large number of people, the ship is just a place to sleep and eat as they go somewhere. They may cruise 2 or 3 times in their lives. They may never look at the Promenade. The Royal and her ilk are designed to get THOSE type of cruisers to spend money on board.

 

And in the worst case scenario you mentioned, they sail on the Royal and then the Grand, well if they prefer the Grand, Princess still wins, as they are repeat cruisers (repeat cruisers generally equal lower costs of sale but lower profit margin) and Princess keeps them on the Grand.

 

It's a great philosophical debate. If a person's first candy bar is a 1.6 oz Almond Joy that she bought for $1 and she enjoyed it, and some old-timer tells her that a few years ago, $0.50 could buy a 2.4 oz bar, does the first person like her candy bar any less? The old-timer is going to grouse about "things not being what they used to be." The newcomer is going to overlook that which she never had in the first place. Maybe.

 

But in that example, we are talking about a change that eliminates the prior option. With Royal (and Regal), this is not the case. There are many people who develop loyalties to a single cruise line, but precious few people who develop strict loyalties to a particular ship. So, yes, it is possible that people who have never sailed before will do so on Royal and love it. In fact, I would bet that this is the predicted result. There is a lot to love. But when that same person sails the year after on a Caribe deck balcony cabin on Sapphire, might their preference change? In my example, the woman cannot buy a 2.4 oz candy bar for $0.50, so she loves what she can buy without a second thought. But what if she could? Which do you think she would prefer? With Princess, until the rest of the fleet is retired, the 2.4 oz candy bar is still there in front of you.

 

Over the passage of time, Royal will no longer have the new ship smell and people will stop booking her just because they want to try out the latest thing. The day will come when she is just another ship in a very large fleet and people will post here: "Which For The Caribbean--Emerald or Royal?" just as they post now with respect to Coral and Diamond in Alaska, and opinions will fly left and right. And if you think that Royal's design elements that people have commented on here won't come into play, you are mistaken. Some day in the not too distant future, bookings on Royal will be based purely on ship preference and not at all on wanting to experience the new and unknown, and these bookings will be done by people who have tried both Royal and the fleet's other ships. When that day comes, we will have our answer as to whether Royal is different, or whether, as the OP asks, something went wrong. Until then, it is nothing more than a great philosophical debate.

[Captiva]

Hi,

 

We were on the maiden voyage of the Royal Princess (from June 16-23) and enjoyed the ship. The ship is beautiful (especially the Piazza) and has some very nice features (such as the Pasty Shop in the Horizon Court). We had an inside cabin (there were two of us) and had adequate room and storage space. Because our stateroom was located near the forward staircase, the absence of a central staircase did not really bother us.

 

It was fun being on a brand new ship with a new design. We had a wonderful time and are booked on the maiden voyage of the Regal Princess in June 2014.

 

I always go on cruises with a very positive attitude and have truly enjoyed every cruise that I have ever taken.

 

Chuck

 

Hi Chuck--thanks for your review of the Royal ! We're sailing on the Royal at the end of October (5 day cruise). I don't know if you remember, but we sailed with you on a Crystal Harmony cruise about 12 years ago ! Great to see you on CC again---

Jean and Walter (formerly NJ but now Florida )

[Mulege]

Just wait for the T/A and Pia's "Live" thread in October. There are several long time CC posters, including yourself, on this cruise and you can be sure we'll all add our observations (and opinions) to Pia's thread. You'll get different perspectives.

 

 

Yes, I hope so too. Let's hope they remain unbiased as many are long time, "loyal" Princess cruisers.

[janetz]

We have not sailed on Princess in a few years. We are booked for the repo cruise, 10 days, Oct 2014..So far away. :(

Reading everything I can I think the biggest downer for us was no outside cabins. We ended up booking our first inside as we are not on our cabin much and the smaller balcony issue, would be an issue for us, being taller.

With that said, we are looking forward to sailing again with Princess. We go with an open mind, and do not sweat the small stuff. :D

[Cruise Junky]

With that said, we are looking forward to sailing again with Princess. We go with an open mind, and do not sweat the small stuff. :D

 

Like balconies :D

[billco]

We have not sailed on Princess in a few years. We are booked for the repo cruise, 10 days, Oct 2014..So far away. :(

Reading everything I can I think the biggest downer for us was no outside cabins. We ended up booking our first inside as we are not on our cabin much and the smaller balcony issue, would be an issue for us, being taller.

With that said, we are looking forward to sailing again with Princess. We go with an open mind, and do not sweat the small stuff. :D

Why would the balcony size be an issue for taller people? I can see where it would be an issue for wider people.

[Cruise Junky]

Why would the balcony size be an issue for taller people? I can see where it would be an issue for wider people.

 

Stretching your legs out. Taller people usually have very long legs.

[billco]

Stretching your legs out. Taller people usually have very long legs.

I'm short and I don't see much room to stretch my legs out.

[Pia1913]

Why is it that experienced and oft traveled cruisers usually like everything and the others like to complain?

 

Wait for me, guys. You want to "hear it like it is?" We board on the 27th of September for 30 days. If you are familiar with any of my LIVES, you will know I always give you the good, the bad and the ugly. Of course it is my POV. ;)

 

See you next month.

[Cruise Junky]

I'm short and I don't see much room to stretch my legs out.

 

Good point ;)

[sunsetbeachgal]

Why is it that experienced and oft traveled cruisers usually like everything and the others like to complain?

 

Wait for me, guys. You want to "hear it like it is?" We board on the 27th of September for 30 days. If you are familiar with any of my LIVES, you will know I always give you the good, the bad and the ugly. Of course it is my POV. ;)

 

See you next month.

 

I will be interested to see what you think of her...think some of the posters just didn't want to hear that I thought the ship had many, many more positives than the negatives that are pointed out over...and over...and over!

[Pia1913]

I will be interested to see what you think of her...think some of the posters just didn't want to hear that I thought the ship had many, many more positives than the negatives that are pointed out over...and over...and over!

\

You started on a positive note, as will I. That already makes a difference.

[Shogun]

Hi Pia

 

The Royal has many very nice features lots of little private areas you will be very busy posting hope you have lots of internet minutes have a great cruise

 

Yours Shogun

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Forums mobile app

[cruisetrail]

You know, there's something "wrong" with every ship when you think about it. Some people like the small ships, others like the large. The Grand doesn't have a central staircase, the Sun-class ships have "cut from the hull" small balconies, many Grand-class ships don't have a true Promenade where you can stroll around the deck or relax in a lounger and watch the waves, some have an IC while others don't, some have Skywalkers while others don't, some have an Adagio Lounge while others don't, some have a Cafe Caribe while others don't, a few have Alfredo's while the rest don't, etc. I could go on and on.

 

If a ship does or doesn't have a feature you like or want doesn't mean it's "wrong." It's just different. Not every ship appeals to or is right for everyone. We have choices.

 

I'm looking forward to my two Royal cruises.

 

Yes, a ship may or may not have this or that.

 

But the new "flagship" Royal Princess lost *promenade * observation lounge * observation deck * human size balconies * rear pool * at the same time!

No other new ship over a decade had such a scandalously pale premiere.

This answers the question "what went wrong?".

 

The ship has been designed by bean counters.

This answers the question "why?"

 

 

Not every ship appeals to or is right for everyone. We have choices.

Are we discussing choices?

Not at all.

We are discussing this very ship in particular, not choices.

The ship that could have been tree time better than it is now.