What went wrong and why

[Cruise Junky]

Why is it that experienced and oft traveled cruisers usually like everything and the others like to complain?

 

 

I don't think "Oft Traveled" has anything to do with it. People have different standards that they are either willing or unwilling to accept. Some of the most vocal supporters of Royal Princess book insides and really don't care as long as they're on a ship. Some of the most vocal against wouldn't cruise without a balcony and some always book a suite. There are of course exceptions to that.

 

I fail to see why visiting the same port 15 times changes someone's vacation standards.

[bdjam]

I don't think "Oft Traveled" has anything to do with it. People have different standards that they are either willing or unwilling to accept. Some of the most vocal supporters of Royal Princess book insides and really don't care as long as they're on a ship. Some of the most vocal against wouldn't cruise without a balcony and some always book a suite. There are of course exceptions to that.

 

I fail to see why visiting the same port 15 times changes someone's vacation standards.

I agree - I'm "oft traveled" and I can clearly see the shortcomings of this new ship. I can also see what I like about it, but the pros are far outweighed by the cons in my opinion. As one of the original Princess Cheerleaders I certainly like a lot about the cruise line and it's product. But I can also objectively take off the rose colored glasses and see where this ship has its faults.

[Pia1913]

I don't think "Oft Traveled" has anything to do with it. People have different standards that they are either willing or unwilling to accept. Some of the most vocal supporters of Royal Princess book insides and really don't care as long as they're on a ship. Some of the most vocal against wouldn't cruise without a balcony and some always book a suite. There are of course exceptions to that.

 

I fail to see why visiting the same port 15 times changes someone's vacation standards.

 

:confused::confused: Does that mean you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? Visiting the same port over and over? I like that. I know what to expect. Accommodations? We are happy with whatever cabin we chose or had chosen for us. Inside is never an option.

 

Promenade? Don't need it. I walk on a treadmill. Food? Don't need much of that either, though DH does. ;)

 

Expectations? Always to have a good time. And we do! :D

[Loonbeam]

It didn't lose a promenade, nor eliminate balconies, it changed them. Instead of an observation deck, you have Skywalk. They also added things, like expanding alfredos and Princess Live.

 

People are focusing on the negatives in many cases. "What went 'wrong', 'How did Princess miss so badly'.

 

I repeat my earlier statement, we have no way of knowing if Princess did something 'wrong' until around 2015 when we see what prices she is sailing at in order to fill her as compared to other ships. If she commands the same price as a similar cabin on another ship same itinerary, and either costs less to operate or provides more ancilliary revenue, then she was not a 'wrong' design. She was just not the best design for some people.

 

I won't sail the Carribbean Princess because I hate her passenger/space ratio. But she often sells out at reasonable pricing, so that doesn't mean its a 'wrong' design, just not one that meets my preference.

 

EVERY ship is designed by bean counters. That's their job, to ensure the ship makes money for the company that owns it. When I consulted at Princess, I communicated with many higher ups. There seems to be a perception that they just did whatever they wanted, without reason. I can assure you, 100 percent, that every change was made based on careful research, design and structural considerations and after much discussion. It may turn out the research was flawed or led to the wrong conclusion, which happens, but it was definitely done.

 

 

 

Yes, a ship may or may not have this or that.

 

But the new "flagship" Royal Princess lost *promenade * observation lounge * observation deck * human size balconies * rear pool * at the same time!

No other new ship over a decade had such a scandalously pale premiere.

This answers the question "what went wrong?".

 

The ship has been designed by bean counters.

This answers the question "why?"

 

 

 

Are we discussing choices?

Not at all.

We are discussing this very ship in particular, not choices.

The ship that could have been tree time better than it is now.

[Coral]

Why is it that experienced and oft traveled cruisers usually like everything and the others like to complain?

 

Most of my "Princess oft traveled cruisers" have already left Princess due to changes by Princess. These were Princess cheerleaders who have said goodbye and are happy elsewhere.

 

I agree - I'm "oft traveled" and I can clearly see the shortcomings of this new ship. I can also see what I like about it, but the pros are far outweighed by the cons in my opinion. As one of the original Princess Cheerleaders I certainly like a lot about the cruise line and it's product. But I can also objectively take off the rose colored glasses and see where this ship has its faults.

 

I have about 40 plus cruises in the last 15 years (30 plus on Princess). Not bad for someone who is still working and most of these cruises occurred in my 20's and 30's. Not sure if I can be considered an "oft traveled".

 

I think it is important to view things objectively as opposed to having a blind alliance with the believe that whatever the cruise line does I will like. I don't need to spend $3K to sail a ship to prove that I will like the features of the ship that I know from the layout/picture that I don't like.

 

---------

 

As far as someone's comment about "expanding Alfredos". Many "oft traveled" should know by now that Princess had a great menu at their pizzeria on the Sun Class ships. The original Alfredo menu (Grand, Sapphire) pales in comparison to this and the new menu on the Royal Princess still doesn't compare to what they had on the Sun Class ships. By cutting the Pizzeria on the Grand class ship, that was a decline, by bringing it back is an improvement but would be far better if they started with what they had in the 90's!

[bhopal21]

some of the most vocal supporters of royal princess book insides and really don't care as long as they're on a ship.

 

Some of the most vocal against wouldn't cruise without a balcony and some always book a suite. There are of course exceptions to that.

 

 

 

bingo!!!

 

 

 

 

[John Reid]

It is with great interest that I read the posts that suggest that one really can't judge a ship on paper and must sail it to be sure. That's not a test I'm willing to pay three to four thousand to verify. I have sailed on four different lines and five different ship designs. Far and away I have enjoyed the design of Golden, Caribbean, and Ruby more than any other.

 

I know I prefer ships with a walking Promenade.

I know I prefer ships with multiple pools spread out to ease crowding in a single area.

I know I like a decent size balcony and really prefer the larger mini-suite and Caribe balcony sizes.

I know I like the previous size of the Wheelhouse Lounge and the amount and location of lounges on Grand class, especially on Ruby.

I know I like the Observation deck.

 

Knowing these preferences are short-shrifted on the Royal, why would I ever book a cruise on her, especially at the current exorbitant prices?

 

And when it goes to the Caribbean out of FLL, it will have one fewer stop having eliminated Grand Turk. And then there will be those who will say "Who needs Grand Turk anyway?" I know I'd rather have it as a fourth stop than not have it at all. I like the beach day, and so do others.

 

This isn't a matter of experienced vs. inexperienced, loyalist vs. newbie, whining complainers posting vs. satisfied customers not reviewing. These components are the nature of any line's or any ship's reviews.

 

And 49% approval is lower than anything I have ever seen on CC ratings. That number cannot be justified away.

 

I am happy for everyone who has enjoyed cruising on Royal and hope everyone sailing her in the future has a great time. And there will be those who will prefer the modifications. But, for me, it is an easy decision that I will wait for Ruby to return to 7-night Caribbeans in January 2015.

[The Big Booper]

In one of the earlier threads, a woman posted a photo of herself taken head on sitting in her balcony chair on the Royal. DW was walking behind my computer chair as I clicked to the next picture. She said go back to the last picture which I did. She then pronounced "There is no way you'll ever fit your cute little tush in that chair, what idiot ship has such a narrow balcony and narrow chair"

 

She had no idea what line or ship I was looking at.

 

So we booked something else for our Dec cruise. With a real balcony and a right sized chair for us wide guys.

[loliola]

Why is it that experienced and oft traveled cruisers usually like everything and the others like to complain?

 

Wait for me, guys. You want to "hear it like it is?" We board on the 27th of September for 30 days. If you are familiar with any of my LIVES, you will know I always give you the good, the bad and the ugly. Of course it is my POV. ;)

 

See you next month.

 

Looking forward to it, Pia...thank you!

[cruisetrail]

It didn't lose a promenade, nor eliminate balconies, it changed them. Instead of an observation deck, you have Skywalk..

 

!?

 

 

I repeat my earlier statement, we have no way of knowing if Princess did something 'wrong' until around 2015 when we see what prices she is sailing at in order to fill her as compared to other ships. If she commands the same price as a similar cabin on another ship same itinerary, and either costs less to operate or provides more ancilliary revenue, then she was not a 'wrong' design.

 

Wrong for whom?

For their revenue or for us consumers?

 

I can assure you, 100 percent, that every change was made based on careful research, design and structural considerations and after much discussion.

What careful research lead to elimination of the front observation deck?

Only people with no heart and no soul could do that change.

 

EVERY ship is designed by bean counters. That's their job, to ensure the ship makes money for the company that owns it.

 

EVERY business is designed to make money - from a liquor store to opera house. But the ways they make money are different.

 

Look at RCI.

Transition from the Voyager class to the Freedom class. What was lost?

Please name a single thing?

Transition from the Freedom class to the Oasis class. What was lost?

Weren't they designed to make money?

 

These are the best examples.

Why not follow them?

[Mom33]

!?

 

 

 

 

Wrong for whom?

For their revenue or for us consumers?

 

 

What careful research lead to elimination of the front observation deck?

Only people with no heart and no soul could do that change.

 

 

 

EVERY business is designed to make money - from a liquor store to opera house. But the ways they make money are different.

 

Look at RCI.

Transition from the Voyager class to the Freedom class. What was lost?

Please name a single thing?

Transition from the Freedom class to the Oasis class. What was lost?

Weren't they designed to make money?

 

These are the best examples.

Why not follow them?

 

Promenade deck?

 

There is an observation deck on the Royal. See the video posted here http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1894910 by gailjen

[Sunviking]

I'm not sure but I think when people talk about no Observation Deck they are referring to no public forward viewing area on any deck. The forward area shown in the video is clearly a crew pool and deck area near the bow on the Royal. Other Princess ships we've been on had some space forward where passengers could stand and look. I don't see any on the Royal. I think it's very nice that they have created a nice space for the crew to use. They work very hard and should have a place that they can use when they have their very limited time off.

[janetz]

Stretching your legs out. Taller people usually have very long legs.

 

 

:D Yes I do..

[Roses2]

Reading these posts certainly amplifies the old saying "different strokes for different folks".

 

 

We generally cruise 2-3 times a year. We book only mini or full suites because our cabin is extraordinarily important to us. It is not just a place to sleep. It is the place we live for a week or two, sometimes longer. During that time we want room to comfortably relax, read, enjoy a drink, and eat a meal.

 

 

We enjoy a glass of wine on our balcony and more often than not eat lunch in our cabin or on our balcony.

 

We seldom attend shows or ship's activities but prefer to pursue our own interests.

 

With exception of one cruise on a different line (which brought us quickly back to Princess) all of our ocean cruises have been on Princess.

 

Unlike many others we do not like the small (ex-Renaissance cruise lines) ships but prefer the larger ships. We found the Diamond and the Sapphire particularly enjoyable because of the smaller anytime dining rooms. The mini-suites on the Sun class are equal to most of the full suites on other ships. We do enjoy those few ships with a full promenade deck for a daily long walk.

 

We do not believe we are alone in our emphasis on the importance of the size of our cabin and access to a reasonable size balcony where one can enjoy a drink and a meal.

 

From reading the critiques of the new Royal class, we are uncertain about booking a cruise on either Royal or Regal but, if an interesting itinerary pops up, we probably will chance at least one to evaluate the experience for ourselves.

We shall see.

 

P&J

[cruisetrail]

Promenade deck?

 

There is an observation deck on the Royal. See the video posted here http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1894910 by gailjen

 

The Oasis class has wrap-around promenade deck under different name - jogging track.

 

There is no observation deck on the Royal Princess.

[cruisetrail]

I'm not sure but I think when people talk about no Observation Deck they are referring to no public forward viewing area on any deck. The forward area shown in the video is clearly a crew pool and deck area near the bow on the Royal. Other Princess ships we've been on had some space forward where passengers could stand and look. I don't see any on the Royal. I think it's very nice that they have created a nice space for the crew to use. They work very hard and should have a place that they can use when they have their very limited time off.

 

Yes, you are right.

The only note - a similar crew area exists on Grand class ships as well.

[Mom33]

The Oasis class has wrap-around promenade deck under different name - jogging track.

 

There is no observation deck on the Royal Princess.

 

Royal has a "jogging" track also. As far as a wrap around "jogging" track on Oasis...it doesn't wrap around. You can't sit down anywhere on it. Royal still has an actual promenade deck to relax on.

 

Your definition of a deck to observe the sea is different from mine. To me , the highest spot on the ship is great for observing anything on the sea. Royal has one .

[cruisetrail]

Royal has a "jogging" track also. As far as a wrap around "jogging" track on Oasis...it doesn't wrap around. You can't sit down anywhere on it. Royal still has an actual promenade deck to relax on.

 

Your definition of a deck to observe the sea is different from mine. To me , the highest spot on the ship is great for observing anything on the sea. Royal has one .

 

The jogging track / promenade on the Oasis class is fully wrap-around with chairs in the stern part.

It's not as luxurious as on Cunard or HAl. Views are partially obstructed by lifeboats.

Nevertheless it's a wrap-around promenade. Use it for walking, for jogging, for watchung scenery - it's up to you.

I wish the Royal Princess had at least what the Oasis has.

 

My definition of a wrap-around promenade deck is the same as what is adopted by cruise industry - it's a dedicated promenade that goes all the way around the ship - "suitable for promenading, (i.e., walking) thus the name"

The Royal Princess does not have (lost) it..

Shame.

Promenade deck is promenade deck, not a balcony, not a sun deck on top, not a rudimentary piece of what is supposed to have been a promenade deck (Celebrity Solstice, Royal Princess).:o

[Stevesan]

The jogging track / promenade on the Oasis class is fully wrap-around with chairs in the stern part.

It's not as luxurious as on Cunard or HAl. Views are partially obstructed by lifeboats.

Nevertheless it's a wrap-around promenade. Use it for walking, for jogging, for watchung scenery - it's up to you.

I wish the Royal Princess had at least what the Oasis has.

 

My definition of a wrap-around promenade deck is the same as what is adopted by cruise industry - it's a dedicated promenade that goes all the way around the ship - "suitable for promenading, (i.e., walking) thus the name"

The Royal Princess does not have (lost) it..

Shame.

Promenade deck is promenade deck, not a balcony, not a sun deck on top, not a rudimentary piece of what is supposed to have been a promenade deck (Celebrity Solstice, Royal Princess).:o

 

Including 6,000 fellow passengers???:p

[ONT-CA]

Perhaps we are missing the point. Yes, the Royal was design for greater profit return for that is it's purpose but more importantly she was not designed with us in mind. She will be well received in the inevitable cruise market of China, whose bustling economy will draw this industry to its population and it's shores in the not too distant future.

[bwlive]

If you want to see a fabulous video of this beautiful ship go to Utube.com Royal Princess in Athens... Someone has taken a great video of the ship and you can stop it at anytime to view the balconies..... Ours is on the Emerald Deck--obstructed view---but I think our balcony is going to be great even with the metal wall ..looking forward to our cruise.... Enjoy....

[Mom33]

The jogging track / promenade on the Oasis class is fully wrap-around with chairs in the stern part.

It's not as luxurious as on Cunard or HAl. Views are partially obstructed by lifeboats.

Nevertheless it's a wrap-around promenade. Use it for walking, for jogging, for watchung scenery - it's up to you.

I wish the Royal Princess had at least what the Oasis has.

 

My definition of a wrap-around promenade deck is the same as what is adopted by cruise industry - it's a dedicated promenade that goes all the way around the ship - "suitable for promenading, (i.e., walking) thus the name"

The Royal Princess does not have (lost) it..

Shame.

Promenade deck is promenade deck, not a balcony, not a sun deck on top, not a rudimentary piece of what is supposed to have been a promenade deck (Celebrity Solstice, Royal Princess).:o

 

A promenade and a jogging track are not the same. Royal Caribbean doesn't call the track a promenade. It calls it what it is ......a jogging track.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[The Big Booper]

Including 6,000 fellow passengers???:p

 

95% of those pax don't know about and don't care about the deck 5 track. There are only a couple of doors to it and they are not clearly marked. It is for joggers and walkers only.

[baldercash]

What went wrong? Look at this list that 258 posts and 13,000+ views produced of what is positive about Royal.

The majority are about the ship venues being bigger which is meaningless as the Royal has a larger passenger capacity.

Then you take away the ones about it being a new ship, most apply to any new boat.

Then take away the ones that are a carry over from the other ships.

Not much left after you edit. How many of the positives could be easily implemented through out the fleet.

 

Make a list of what is truly new or better and weigh it against what posters have stated as deficiencies and you make up your own mind.

 

 

Originally Posted by gracie65 View Post

1. More new and enhanced Dining Options to choose from

2. Adult-Only Retreat Pool

3. Curtains in the Mini Suites to separate sitting area

4. A Brand New Design for Princess

5. Expanded Piazza and Atrium

6. More Horizon Court choices and stations

7. Shampoo and Conditioner installed in showers

8. More tables for 2 in MDR's

9. Gelato's for sundaes and cool tasty sweets

10. Beautiful MDR's with all new decor

11. Piazza gives us back the WOW!!! factor

12. Sea Walk Bar for 5pm cocktails and Flair Shows

13. People watching in the Piazza

14. Hand held shower thingy

15. Bellini's Bar

16. New open layout of Horizon Court

17. TRX Classes in the gym

18. Jogging track with outside circuit training stations

19. Couch and two flat screen TV's in all Deluxe Balcony rooms

20. Hugely Expanded Alfredo's menu

21. Wash stations at Horizon Court entrance's

22. More places to people watch

23. More seating at MUTS

24. Whole "new" ship experience

25. The new ship smell

26. Club 6 to hang out late nights

27. Seeing old friends and meeting new one's on Royal Princess

28. Exploring the shops around the mini-atrium

29. International Cafe with expanded seating and more windows

30. Aerobics studio with Cycling classes in fitness center

31. New digital signage all over the ship

32. Dedicated Pastry Shoppe

33. Crown Grill and Wheelhouse Bar combo

34. Expanded Vines with more windows

35. Expanded Crooner's

36. Huge area aft on Sun Deck with space for lots of loungers

37. Overall Princess Experience on the new flagship

38. Hearing the Love Boat horn!!!

39. Full sized basketball court

40. Mini Suite for 2 unrelated people having privacy

41. Walking extra steps to the forward elevators to burn calories.

42. Sea Walk during the day and at night. Blue neon glow at night.

43. Up to # 7 for the shelf in the shower (we may have to start a traveling

circus after we have all sailed and received our "Royal" training!!)

44. Bigger enhanced entertainment acts in the atrium

45. Champagne Waterfall with Captain Tony Draper or Captain Dino Sagani

46. The Crab Shack

47. Yet another lover of the shower ledge ( we are all easily excited or pleased

one)

48. Comfiest Beds ever on a Princess cruise ship

49. Updated Vista Lounge

50. Best Picture and sound quality on MUTS ever!

51. New Chef's Table Lumiere

52. Retreat Pool Cabanas

53. New huge TV's in staterooms

54. Patter and stateroom account visible via

ipad/mobile 55. Funky chairs outside Princess Live!

56. Cruise card used at laundry instead of change

57. Apple Pie at Alfredo's

58. Choreographed fountain and lights shows

59. First brand new Princess ship since 2008

60. Making Limoncello instead of Lemonade (love this one!!)

61. Many will sail The Royal which will mean less crowds on Grand Class Ships

62. Aft couches near Outrigger Bar great to watch the wake and relax

63. The new Wine Makers Dinner

64. New evening BBQ menu options at Trident Grill

65. Fondue's for eats and treats

66. Laser Shooting Range

67. Ping Pong tables and sofas at the games area

68. Looking up at the funnel wings from Center Court

69. Cuban Sandwiches at IC

70. Ocean Terrace Seafood Bar

71. Jacuzzi at the Retreat Pool especially on a port day

72. Discovering a brand new ship

73. Searching deck by deck for all Memories at Sea Winners.

74. Art & Architecture mobile tour

75. Checking daily onboard schedules of all things Royal Princess on the

Intranet

76. Burritos, chips and salsa at Outrigger Bar

77. Flight's and Bites in Vines

78. Four brand new shows in Princess Theater

79. Piano music at Crooner's from the 'Olive Piano'

80. No smoking in most inside interiors

81. Relaxing in new Wheelhouse Bar

82. Celebrations Gift Shop

83. New refrigerator magnet (for Dave)

84. FREE in stateroom movies and shows on demand

85. Padded Head board (first time I have seen this one, love it too!!)

86. Bigger shower

87. Larger soap dish in shower

88. Wide promenade with loungers and tables

89. Views from the fwd Sky Deck at Sail Away

90. Better seating options at Horizon Court and Horizon Bistro

91. Larger Putting Green course

92. More automatic doors

93. Well organized shore excursion staff desk in mini-Piazza

94. Variety of Inaugural Season Logo items

95. Hand picked friendly Princess crew

96. Larger Sanctuary

97. Expanded and enhanced centers for kids and Teens

98. Largest Thermal Suite of any Princess ship

99. New massage rooms for couples in the Spa with expanded pre-treatment lounge

100. Digital Photo Gallery

101. Sabatini's for lunch

102. Discovering a new favorite tea at the Tea Towers

103. Super Tuscan Wine Tasting events

104. Seeing the Wyland art mural up close

105. Daily Pub lunches

106. Checking out all of the new entertainment options in Princess Live!

107. Larger, new design for Princess Theater

108. Concierge Lounge for Suite Guests

109. Hanging out in the evening at the Retreat turned “Chill Lounge” enjoying the night with drinks and music

110. The cool towels the crew has waiting on you when you get back to the ship from an excursion or hot if you cruised someplace cold. (can't believe I forgot this)

 

1- No observation deck.

2- No central staircase.

3- inadequate elevator capacity.

3- No full promenade.

4- No aft pool.

5- Reduced pool area pp then Grand class.

6- Not enough pools - *not family friendly to stay with kids.

7- Limited loungers and No loungers in shade around main pool.

8- Private cabanas took the best public space

9- 7 Hot tubs 1 just for teens ? - 1000 more passengers then Grand class with 7 to 8 tubs.

10- No free sauna & steam bath.

11- Lack of privacy on balconies under Sea Walk.

12- Reduced balcony size - majority not adequate for families or groups of 3 or 4

13- Uncomfortable balcony chairs - small table.

14- TV affixed to wall in front of bed, bad viewing angle from couch.

15- No Adagio or any other bar with an amazing view. There is the Seaview bar which is outside with a view of the sea but restricted by weather.

16- Reduced Dancing Facilities

17- Too big for some ports (must tender).

18- No OV cabins.

19- Higher priced cabins.

[Jimmy Geegitz]

There are a lot of pluses. BUT. The balcony is a HUGE part of why we cruise so not be able to sit comfortably on the balcony tells me to pass on this ship.