What went wrong and why

[dmwnc1959]

But if no one favors these things, aren't they "wrong"? If a restaurant takes the most popular item off the menu and replaces it with something that people either dislike or are indifferent to, did the restaurant create a "different" menu or an inferior one?

 

Just an observation, if you please. What of those who have never cruised, or dined in your 'restaurant', and they come upon this 'change', but they never knew what it was like before? Maybe they won't be 'indifferent' but actually like what they have in front of them? Sure the old patrons may go away or choose the same name 'restaurant' in a different locale that may have the same old menu items, but the new patrons won't know if it is inferior or not. And they may love it.

 

 

If this were true, then all ships would have approval percentages like Royal's. But Royal's is well below all other Princess ships (with an admittedly smaller sample size).

 

Excellent point on the 'smaller sample size'. Assuming Royal Princess has carried roughly 21,000 passengers since the first Preview Cruise, and we have heard from maybe 35 of them.... :confused:

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

The poor old Royal,

 

The Royal is the fleets flag ship, it is not the same as any other ship in the fleet,

 

it has many new and interesting features,

 

it has lost some features that other ships have

 

it has a great crew,

 

so if you are an inside cabin person you will be very happy with the ship

 

if you are a person that spends a long time in your cabin, then you might

 

not be so happy with the smaller cabin, but Princess has given you

 

a new TV and movie system,

 

the mini suite appeared to me to be OK not big but OK as to the balcony

 

well they are small, I do not spend any time on them so its not an issue

 

for me, if you are the type of person that wants to spend most of your

 

cruise in private then you will need to book a suite.

 

My view is the Royal has much to offer, if you cruise as a means of

 

getting from port to port you will love the ship,

 

If you enjoy deck live mixing with fellow passengers you will love the ship,

 

If you are more of a private person wanting to spend time on your own

 

balcony, then standard cabins will not meet all your needs. However

 

I do not think anyone will book a cruise on the Royal and be shocked by

 

balcony size, they have been measured, talked about and photographed

 

yours Shogun

[Pam in CA]

That's true to a point, but at some level I think "different" collides with "wrong".

Here's where I respectfully disagree with you. They are "wrong" only if they are important to you, which is subjective and a personal preference.

 

Most people take the elevators, many people book balcony cabins not to hang out on them but to perhaps be outside at sailaway and/or like the extra light and feeling of space (I can't tell you how many times I've been on my balcony during the day and almost all of the balconies that I can see are empty), most people never go out on Promenade deck, many people don't do much more than sleep in their cabins, etc. These features are important to you so they are "wrong" to you but perhaps not someone else.

[SwissDave]

I was on the 2nd preview cruise and the maiden down to Barcelona. I deliberately did not write a review because there were still bugs being ironed out and not everything was perfect and wonderful. Therefore the review would have come across as negative when infact I had a very positive experience on Royal. I posted my thoughts on Shogun's 'live from' anyway.

 

I had a minisuite and it was not really noticeable that it was any smaller than on Grand class ships. Plenty of storage space, bathroom was a bit smaller but does that really matter? Yes balcony was small, but was perfectly functional for my requirements.

 

I fully expect to back on Royal (and most likely on Regal as well) next year.

[Superpowers810]

It has a small amount of reviews. I think it will balance out after a year or two. Especially as the new staff gets comfortable with the ship too

[dmwnc1959]

It has a small amount of reviews. I think it will balance out after a year or two. Especially as the new staff gets comfortable with the ship too

 

I did a quick calculation and it comes out to be about 2/10ths of only 1% of the passengers she's carried so far.

[pablo222]

Only 49% like the new Royal Princess, that does not speak well for the new ship.

 

But, the posters here are overwhelmingly negative about everything.

If you read and believe every post here, there is something wrong with

every aspect of what Princess does, has done, and will ever done.

 

Name any topic -- someone hates it.

 

Ask a simple question -- "What's showing on MUTS?", and

a couple people will tell you how they hate MUTS, or that it

shows football, or that it doesn't show football, or that's it's

too loud.

 

Best to just read for entertainment, take a cruise, and form

your own opinion.

[Wellpark]

I am booked on the Royal for a B2B in November.

 

I have been holding off commenting on concerns raised. mainly because I am amazed by the depth of feelings expressed.

 

One matter that grabs me...I have chosen to cruise with Princess this time round based on previous Princess experience. I heard they were launching a brand new ship and I liked a lot of the new features.

 

I read about some of the concerns raised and I have read with interest the reviews and views of others.

 

Now that I have chosen this ship and we are fully booked and paid for, I know my wife and myself will have a fantastic holiday, we feel priveleged despite the hard earned money it costs to embark on said trip ;-)

 

The last thing I would then do is go onto other boards and threads and seek out other cruise lines and slate design flaws in a manner that might undermine another persons experience.

 

I would think it is ok to point out that there is not a mid ship stairwell for passengers to use, eqaully helpful to state that there is no wrap round external promenade and no aft pool. To do so with venom, might seem tactless and disrespectful to some.

 

Do people trully feel let down by Princess to such an extent? I am sorry you feel that way...I would suggest that you take this up with Princess and stop pouring water on people who are just trying to prepare for a holiday and try to ensure that others have a great holiday too.

 

It's no biggie:)

[jollyjones]

Try it if you dont like it dont come back, but give it a shot.

 

I'd love to, but as a claustrophobic solo, I can't afford it.

 

65% solo supplement on obstr. OVs made cruising affordable, but unfortunately even the obstructed balconies are 100% solo supp. which, on top of a higher base price, is too rich for me.

 

However, the FCC on my last cruise (on the Grand, so I can work round the central staircase issue) suggested that I wait till the Regal is in service as she thought that pricing would soften then, so there is some hope!

[Coral]

A 49% approval rate is pretty low...I'm sure that Princess was expecting more bang for their buck.

 

What went wrong - I think Princess got very greedy and created a ship that reflects that.

[big al]

I am a bit disappointed it the Caribbean for next year. It seems that only the Regal and Royal will be doing those trips. There is one out of Houston doing the Western Carib which is not somewhere i care to go right now.

 

What makes it a problem is the no window cabins. I prefer a balcony but cannot always afford them. With these two new ships the prices are higher and do not seem to offer the extra alternative to inside cabins.

 

Sometimes window cabins ARE more $$ than balconies...sometimes they are just a few hundred dollars apart..recently, I priced a week long cruise for our family..inside cabin for 2 was $1500, outside, $1750, balcony $1725..are you kidding? I told my nieces that for only $112 each, they could get a balcony next to us, instead of the dark, no sunlight inside cabin...they immediately said, "do it!"....you may have to cruise older ships to get window cabins, unfortunetly....good luck..

 

Big Al

[KruzPrincess]

No one is trying to spoil someone's holiday. This is Cruise CRITIC after all. I know that doesn't mean that everyone has to be critical, but it's a place for opinions. I haven't been on the Royal Princess, but I've watched videos on YouTube that passengers have posted. I can see there are things that don't appeal to me. I'm booked on the Regal Princess next year and am not particularly excited about what I've seen of the Royal, but I'm waiting for more information before I decide if I'm going to keep that booking. Princess appears to be making balcony life less attractive. First they purchased extremely uncomfortable furniture for the existing ships and then they made the balconies on the new ships very small and cramped. Was that a plan? Do they want you off your balcony and in the ship spending money? I don't know, but I have to think they know what they're doing. The Royal Princess is beautiful. No doubt about it, but it obviously has some things that people don't like. Just because someone points those things out or wants to talk about them doesn't mean they're simply "complainers". There are issues there and it's only logical that people want to talk about them.

[bhopal21]

What went wrong - I think Princess got very greedy and created a ship that reflects that.

 

 

I agree.

 

Mike:)

[johnfas]

In the past our experience on a newer ship has been better than that of an older one such as the Grandeur or Splendor.

I really doubt that...

[SwissDave]

To show how opinions can vary...

 

My first cruise was on Sea Princess, didn't know what to expect, but was very pleasantly suprised by the whole cruising 'thing'. I would not however rush back to that ship in the future after being on Grand class.

 

I have had several cruises on the Grand, and loved all of them, and loved the ship, despite no central staircase - but then I had not been on a ship before that had one, so I didn't miss it.

 

I have cruised on Crown, which I really enjoyed.

 

Most recent was on Royal. Is the ship perfect? no, of course not (none of them are). I didnt miss the central stairs, with so many cruises on the Grand I was used to it not being there, and I prefer aft or fwd cabins to midship anyway. I do know lack of stairs is an issue for some people, and Princess did make a mistake here, and I said so on my post cruise questionaire.

 

Finally, I have also cruised on Caribbean P, and really did not like the ship at all, despite it being a Grand class and virtually identical to the others. Nothing I can singularly put a finger on, it just didn't feel right, so it is off my list for any future cruise. I know others rave about it, and they are certainly entitled to do that and I certainly wouldnt berate anyone who disagreed and ask them 'how can you sail on a ship that is so bad?'. At least I tried that ship and then found out it was not for me, rather than write off a ship that I have not been on.

[Mom33]

Money, money money. Should Princess try to make a profit? Should they find ways to make money in which the average cruiser can still afford to take a cruise? Or should they raise prices across the whole fleet and risk leaving some cruisers at the dock watching the ships sail away?

 

What is the alternative folks?

[billco]

What went wrong - I think Princess got very greedy and created a ship that reflects that.

I agree, but I like to rationalize that Princess is just figuring out a way to subsidize our cruise.

 

When we go on a cruise, almost all of our on board spending is within our OBC. We take private excursions. Princess gets very little above the cost of the cruise from us.

 

In order to support our lack of spending, I think Princess has designed a ship that leans toward those who don't enjoy the perks and OBCs and are more likely to spend on drinks, gifts, Princess excursions, and other extras.

 

We can deal with the changes as long as Princess doesn't cut back on our perks and OBCs and still provides a great cruise experience.

[JimmyVWine]

Here's where I respectfully disagree with you. They are "wrong" only if they are important to you, which is subjective and a personal preference.

 

And this is where I disagree with you. You are looking at this from the vantage point of what is important to me. But I am not. Take me completely out of the equation. If Princess makes a design change that 100% of all people either dislike or are indifferent to, and not a single person views the change as a positive, I put that into the "wrong" column. It no longer becomes a matter of "preference", because not a single person "prefers" it. I am 100% on board with the notion that something cannot be "wrong" if some people prefer it, even though others do not. But the changes that I identified in my earlier post do not have a single person preferring them. Now, undoubtedly, there are many people who are apathetic, indifferent, unmoved, unconcerned, etc. But those feelings are not the same as "preferring".

 

There was an earlier thread where a poll was taken asking people if Princess designed a ship that had every current feature of Royal, AND had larger balconies, a full Promenade, more pools, OV cabins, (and a few things I am probably missing), would they prefer that ship to Royal, and the result was 90% "yes". If Princess removes features that 90% of its customers would like to see reinstated, I think it is a bid understated to call those changes "differences" instead of "mistakes". This will all play out in the end. If the next generation of build restores some, many or all of these features, you can go on calling Royal and Regal "different" ships. But most people will call them errors in judgment. Conversely, if the next generation build employs all of Royal's features, then indeed Princess will be going in a "different" direction and people will have to decide just how important these design changes are.

[bhopal21]

Money, money money. Should Princess try to make a profit? Should they find ways to make money in which the average cruiser can still afford to take a cruise? Or should they raise prices across the whole fleet and risk leaving some cruisers at the dock watching the ships sail away?

 

What is the alternative folks?

 

 

Did anyone say they were not to make money or a profit?

 

If you are at all familiar with CCL and Princess you will notice that they have done a pretty good job and my IRA appreciates that.

 

Mike:)

[Cruise Junky]

Money, money money. Should Princess try to make a profit? Should they find ways to make money in which the average cruiser can still afford to take a cruise? Or should they raise prices across the whole fleet and risk leaving some cruisers at the dock watching the ships sail away?

 

What is the alternative folks?

 

Of course they're in the business to make money, which makes it scary to think of who's in charge that approves a design that alienates so many of it's loyal passengers. Just who do they think they're going to attract by taking away what they did? Remember new coke? it doesn't work. They could have gone after a whole different demographic but not with these designs. There was a thread a while ago about how badly Royal had been Solsticized...I wish, what an improvement that would have been.

[Mom33]

Did anyone say they were not to make money or a profit?

If you are at all familiar with CCL and Princess you will notice that they have done a pretty good job and my IRA appreciates that.

 

Mike:)

 

Many CC members have complained that Princess is only out to make money. That is my point. That is what I read in their posts.

 

I'm familiar with Princess, love their product and want them to continue being profitable.

[Mom33]

Of course they're in the business to make money, which makes it scary to think of who's in charge that approves a design that alienates so many of it's loyal passengers. Just who do they think they're going to attract by taking away what they did? Remember new coke? it doesn't work. They could have gone after a whole different demographic but not with these designs. There was a thread a while ago about how badly Royal had been Solsticized...I wish, what an improvement that would have been.

 

Perhaps they want a new demographic, one that spends onboard. Those that don't like the new ship can always sail their other ships.

[Cruise Junky]

Perhaps they want a new demographic, one that spends onboard. Those that don't like the new ship can always sail their other ships.

And just how do they plan on doing that?? they don't advertise. And trust me, I spend plenty onboard. We average about $100 a day. Because Royal and Regal are doing itineraries that I want I have 3 cruises booked on Celebrity and none on Princess.

[JimmyVWine]

Just an observation, if you please. What of those who have never cruised, or dined in your 'restaurant', and they come upon this 'change', but they never knew what it was like before? Maybe they won't be 'indifferent' but actually like what they have in front of them? Sure the old patrons may go away or choose the same name 'restaurant' in a different locale that may have the same old menu items, but the new patrons won't know if it is inferior or not. And they may love it.

 

It's a great philosophical debate. If a person's first candy bar is a 1.6 oz Almond Joy that she bought for $1 and she enjoyed it, and some old-timer tells her that a few years ago, $0.50 could buy a 2.4 oz bar, does the first person like her candy bar any less? The old-timer is going to grouse about "things not being what they used to be." The newcomer is going to overlook that which she never had in the first place. Maybe.

 

But in that example, we are talking about a change that eliminates the prior option. With Royal (and Regal), this is not the case. There are many people who develop loyalties to a single cruise line, but precious few people who develop strict loyalties to a particular ship. So, yes, it is possible that people who have never sailed before will do so on Royal and love it. In fact, I would bet that this is the predicted result. There is a lot to love. But when that same person sails the year after on a Caribe deck balcony cabin on Sapphire, might their preference change? In my example, the woman cannot buy a 2.4 oz candy bar for $0.50, so she loves what she can buy without a second thought. But what if she could? Which do you think she would prefer? With Princess, until the rest of the fleet is retired, the 2.4 oz candy bar is still there in front of you.

 

Over the passage of time, Royal will no longer have the new ship smell and people will stop booking her just because they want to try out the latest thing. The day will come when she is just another ship in a very large fleet and people will post here: "Which For The Caribbean--Emerald or Royal?" just as they post now with respect to Coral and Diamond in Alaska, and opinions will fly left and right. And if you think that Royal's design elements that people have commented on here won't come into play, you are mistaken. Some day in the not too distant future, bookings on Royal will be based purely on ship preference and not at all on wanting to experience the new and unknown, and these bookings will be done by people who have tried both Royal and the fleet's other ships. When that day comes, we will have our answer as to whether Royal is different, or whether, as the OP asks, something went wrong. Until then, it is nothing more than a great philosophical debate.

[bhopal21]

Many CC members have complained that Princess is only out to make money. That is my point. That is what I read in their posts.

 

I'm familiar with Princess, love their product and want them to continue being profitable.

 

The term used was "greed" which is much different than simply making money.;)

 

Mike:)