Eastern Med with 84 year old Dad--how much is too much

[Mom2008]

Hi everyone:

 

My Dad has offered to take our family (7 people including him) on a cruise of our choice, as long as we can fit it within a budget of about $2,500 per person for the whole trip. I've never been able to take my family to Europe, so thought this would be a good opportunity to do this. We live in Vancouver, BC.

 

My Mom's ancestors come from Croatia, so we thought Eastern Mediterranean would be great. Mom passed away two years ago, so this will keep her memory alive.

 

Dad had his second knee replacement earlier this year, and he still walks with a walker. He likes cruising because of its all-inclusive nature.

 

He's Catholic and a big fan of the Pope, so we thought it would be great to fly to Rome early enough to take in the Wednesday morning audience with the Pope. He's already talked to the Archbishop about getting tickets :) We'll stay in Rome Weds night, then take the train to Venice Thursday, stay in Venice until the ship sails on Saturday afternoon.

 

We are thinking of taking a Norwegian Cruise Lines 7-day cruise as they seem the most affordable and have the best itinerary.

 

For anything over the allotted cost, we would want to pitch in $$, to make our vacation memorable.

 

Here's the question part. We were thinking that, after the ship returns on Saturday morning, we would take a train to Paris and spend a few more days there and fly home from Paris. We are speak French, my Dad's ancestors are from Brittany, and my husband and I have always wanted to take the kids (ages 11, 16 and 19) to France one day (we visited there before we were married). Should we perhaps reverse the itinerary? Fly to Paris, train to Venice, then to Rome?

 

Are we biting off more than we can chew? An Eastern Med cruise is very port-intensive and there isn't very much down time. Dad has already said though that he'll see how he feels each day, and if he's not up to it, he'll stay on the ship while we visit a city. He'd say yes to everything, he's very eager, but he might not know how tiring it could be.

 

We'd probably bring along a transport wheelchair to help him get around, as too much walking could be very tiring for him.

 

His idea of the cruise is to spend time with the family (we live in Vancouver, he lives in Winnipeg and I haven't seen him since my Mom's funeral two years ago), he doesn't mind where we go, but just wants to be together.

 

We've cruised twice before with my husband's family, but his Dad paid for everything and I didn't have to plan anything. We went to Alaska and Mexico, each with three ports on a seven-day cruise, so lots of down time, so this sounds like it could be very tiring.

 

Any and all advice is welcome. Oh, and we'd be sailing July/August as my son is in high school and we don't want him to miss any school.

 

Thanks. Theresa

[Emmasoma]

I don't think you will encounter any problems with the cruise, its the pre and post I recommend you carefully research. My husband is 82 and we travel to Europe annually. We mainly use trains but have done cruises that stop in European ports. The ship will have a wide selection of excursions that can accommodate your dad. Trains however, can be a challenge. Going from Venice to Paris, for instance will likely involve many changes and its not easy for someone with a walker to get on and off (with luggage???) Sometime times between changes are short and distances from one track to another are long. Also when you get to Paris, transport for him might be arduous. My husband is in good physical health, but taking underground and walking all over the city can be a lot to handle. Remember, too, Venice is mostly steps and bridges over canals and is very crowded. Good luck with your planning.

[Colorado Kat]

How much are you willing to contribute? $2500 sounds like a lot, and it is, but the extra time before and after adds up fast.

 

Airfare to Europe has been pricey lately. Hotels in Venice, Rome and Paris are not cheap.

 

Day trips while on the cruise can also be expensive.

 

I love the Eastern Med cruises - especially Dubrovnik.

[euro cruiser]

I think you need to start with the amount of money you'll have to spend, including what you can afford to contribute, and work backwards from there. Unless you are able to double (or nearly double) the amount available per person, I doubt that you'll be able to include both a pre- and post-cruise stay.

 

Have you started looking at airfare combinations? (into Rome & out of Venice, into Rome & out of Paris, etc.) That will get you started on a budget. Don't forget as you plan that in addition to the stated cruise fare there will be a daily service fee added per person (even if you have a fourth person free in the cabin you still have the service fee).

 

To save money on your pre-cruise stop in Rome you might consider renting an apartment rather than hotel rooms and preparing one or two of your meals each day yourself vs. a restaurant.

Edited November 25, 2013 by euro cruiser

[navybankerteacher]

While a beautiful idea, I'd say your initial plans are a bit unrealistic. The R/T air will take about $1,000 per, the trains from Rome to Venice and then to Paris will be at least a couple hundred each, then a night in Rome, two nights in Venice and several in Paris (with meals) will run to close to $500 more each. You need to figure on taxis or vans for local ground transport as well. As long as you can kick in a fair amount, the money should be no problem. As long as he can stay on the ship in ports, that should be OK, but you are also talking about a lot of getting around, in various challenging areas which could be difficult for an 84 year old with a walker. One particular problem: arriving in Rome "early" after an overnight flight and trying to get to the morning Papal audience is more likely to be a huge frustration than a cherished goal.

[VMax1700]

It sounds a wonderful trip and your Dad wants family to see their heritage with him.

Remember a couple of things about Europe 1/ July & August will be hot,hot,hot. 2/ there will be a lot of tourists around as it is peak tourist season and school holidays. Hotels will be very expensive.

 

Could you not look at off peak months? Cheaper, easier to get about.

Treat it as part of your son's education!

Edited November 25, 2013 by VMax1700
apostrophe!

[boulders]

While a beautiful idea, I'd say your initial plans are a bit unrealistic. The R/T air will take about $1,000 per, the trains from Rome to Venice and then to Paris will be at least a couple hundred each, then a night in Rome, two nights in Venice and several in Paris (with meals) will run to close to $500 more each. You need to figure on taxis or vans for local ground transport as well. As long as you can kick in a fair amount, the money should be no problem. As long as he can stay on the ship in ports, that should be OK, but you are also talking about a lot of getting around, in various challenging areas which could be difficult for an 84 year old with a walker. One particular problem: arriving in Rome "early" after an overnight flight and trying to get to the morning Papal audience is more likely to be a huge frustration than a cherished goal.

 

You will be lucky if the roundtrip air is only $1000 each. It is more likely to be $1500 each. The land portions, as mentioned will be much more expensive on a daily basis, than the cruise portion. I would look at a longer cruise, if you want to see more cities and towns, and cut the land portion to the bare minimum. There are cruises that start in Barcelona, stop in France, Rome, Croatia and end in Venice.

 

Excursions in Europe are expensive too. It may be most cost effective to get a private excursion, but even that will run about 600 euros.

 

Although NCL's advertised prices look the cheapest, other lines can have very cheap fares for the third and fourth which make them most economical. Have a look at Holland America. The third and fourth are often around $399 pp.

[LHT28]

Just to add to what the others have said cruises are not all inclusive ..you will be paying extra for drinks or drink packages specialty restaurants if you go

then do not forget to add the daily gratuities to the fare

You are now almost at the budget amount & have not left home yet

 

Med cruises are usually more port intensive & with the heat & humidity in the summer months makes it bad for older people

Your plans may be a bit ambitious for the budget

 

Maybe try 7 to 10 cruise with a day each side

 

As others have said start looking at pricing of the "other things" before you commit

Edited November 25, 2013 by LHT28

[kcwingwalker]

You have a wonderful and very special Dad! Pitch in with the extra $$$ and make it a once in a lifetime cruise for everyone!

[Suzieanna]

Make sure the Pope is not away for his summer holidays!

[Mom2008]

Thank you everyone for the great feedback.

 

I guess the conflict with the before/after part of any cruise we pick is the desire to have my Dad see the Pope (Weds for an audience or Sunday for mass), and my and my husband's desire to have the kids see Paris. We figure if we're going to pay for a flight to Europe, we'd like to take in as much as possible, not sure if/when we'd ever be able to afford it again.

 

It's still early days for choosing a cruise, so I don't know how it works with third/fourth person free with NCL vs HAL. We've cruised with HAL twice before, so don't know if that would get us much of a discount. We don't mind cruising inside berths this time, though we'd probably get my Dad an ocean view or balcony room. We'd get three rooms for the seven of us (Dad and my 17 yo son together; me, husband and 12 yo daughter; 19 yo daughter and her 26 year old boyfriend...they live in Calgary).

 

Re time of year, I guess we could look at Spring Break, which for my son is March 17 to 28 2014, which gives us less time to plan, not sure what the weather is like there at that time, but it might be less crowded.

 

Living in Vancouver, a big tourist town, I do see that there are a lot of free and fun events in the summer (peak season) that someone would miss if they were here off-season. Though if they're here for only a day, there's plenty for them to see without the free events, so I'm not sure what we'd miss if we went off-season.

 

Re cost before/after the cruise, we'd definitely be looking at renting an apartment and cooking our own foods with local, slow food and eating out maybe once or twice.

 

Re airfare, we'd like to say fly into Rome and fly back from Paris, or vice versa, and I've seen prices ranging from $1,000 to $1,200.

 

For my Dad, I'd have to check with my brother and sister in Winnipeg to see how his walking is going, but like I said, I'd like to take along a transport wheelchair for parts with long walks or lineups or when he's just plain tired, I think he'd be able to get around without the walker, and for curbs and short steps, he could get out of the wheelchair and back on the other side. Not sure how the trains would work though. We could also rent a van or a couple of cars.

 

Thanks again.

 

Theresa

[dsrdsrdsr]

Check average temperatures for Rome and Venice. It could well be 35 degrees. That might be too hot for enjoyment, possibly even too hot for safety, depending what sort of temperature he's used to.

[SadieN]

For your father's mobility issues, look on the Disabled Cruising Board. Those on the board are a great resource for traveling, including mobility devices and tours.

[Scrapnana]

Mom2008,

 

You sound a great deal like me when it comes to planning. I am going to Point A so why not add on Point B and since I am going to Point B it would be a shame to miss Points C and D.....

 

I think what you would like to do is fantastic and it would make wonderful memories for the entire family.

 

If you go in March it will be much cooler temperature wise but you are right, somethings may not be available. You will also have fewer choices when it comes to cruises.

 

It sounds like your father is realistic about what he can do. That would be my major concern. Bringing along a wheelchair is a good idea.

 

As somebody else said, I can see this easily costing $5000 each. I find all European prices much more than I pay at home and you will be staying in three very expensive cities.

 

I hope you can work out all the details and you have the family vacation of a lifetime!

Edited November 25, 2013 by Scrapnana

[SteveH2508]

For info:

 

There is a sleeper train from Paris to Venice (and the other way I guess) which involves no changes.

[Colorado Kat]

Keep in mind that Europe is not very wheelchair friendly. But you have a 17 year old and 26 year old male along, and if Dad can stand and walk for short periods, you should be fine.

 

Go for a longer cruise. Cut the before and after to a minimum. You should have a wonderful time! Very nice of dad!

[Gloria Mundi]

You mentioned Croatia. DH and I LOVED Dubrovnik but it's not wheelchair-friendly and that's where most ships are likely to stop. The biggest attraction for cruise ship tourists is the city walls, which have tons of steps up and down. I know because DH (age 72 at the time) has a bit of a balance problem and when we went downstairs I was in front of him and when we went upstairs I was right behind him. The main square is beautiful but I'm not sure how far you could get beyond that.

 

What I've learned in traveling with DH is to pace it carefully (no quickie overnights then pack up in the AM and rush somewhere else) and minimize ridiculously early AM departures, for example. We may arrange a private car to or from the airport so DH doesn't have to stumble up bus or train steps carrying a bag. At the end of the day he needs time to put his feet up, and I'll go get in a workout or a swim. You may need to carefully set priorities about what's realistic rather than try and see everything in Europe.

 

I do hope you'll find an itinerary you can all enjoy together! Very generous of your father and I hope when I'm 84 I'll still be up for travel, too.

[jmf123]

For your father's mobility issues, look on the Disabled Cruising Board. Those on the board are a great resource for traveling, including mobility devices and tours.

 

Mom2008, here is a link to the Disabled Cruise Travel forum: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190. Also, you may want to check the wheelchairs/light scooters available for rental from CareVacations on their site (note- they do not service NCL): http://carevacations.com/special-needs/products/c/cruise-line-products/. Special Needs at Sea (they service NCL), is another company to consider for a rental: http://www.specialneedsatsea.com/.

I like the suggestion of VMax1700 to go off-peak, and using it as an educational experience for your son. My parents went in October one year and appreciated the cooler temperatures. (And just a thought, make sure you plan to obtain insurance for everyone). Have a wonderful family trip! :)

[ducklite]

A few things to note--most of the trains have stairs to get on and off.

 

The sidewalks and pedestrian streets in Rome and Croatia are often cobblestones and would not be easy with a walker--he'd be better off in a wheelchair, although even that will be a challenge.

 

You do not want to be driving in Rome, and to be honest, the closest you can get to most of the sites by car is a few blocks or more.

 

I would spend a lot of time researching this trip before you commit. it's not impossible, but I think you are underestimating how exhausting it will be--for all of you.

[cruiseryyc]

Further to what others have stated re walking and/or pushing a wheelchair on cobblestone streets. Be advised that your idea to book an apartment might not work as a lot of buildings in Europe do not have elevators; so either get an apartment on the ground floor or be prepared to carry your father up and down stairs.

 

To have a family get away is a fabulous idea and I hope that you're able to do it.

[busmech]

You might want to look into flying through Paris, to rome and venice. It might be easier. Enjoy and have fun. Yes there can be a lot of ports but you dont have to do every one.

[taglovestocruise]

Pull the kids out of school and travel late May or early October, you will find much better weather and prices cut in half for hotels and your cruise as well as not being in the tourist crunch. Happy cruising.

[pris993]

Don't know where to start on your questions. I can tell you my DH is 81 in good health, I am 67 in good health... we have cruised and travelled in Europe for the past 30 years, visiting Venice, Rome, Paris which are mentioned and to most ports on the Eastern and Western Mediterranean.

 

We always fly between cities in Europe, not sure taking the train is a bargin. Relative to air fare... we usually try to do a multi city fare if at all possible, i.e, US to Rome, Rome to Paris, Paris back to US. We usually do on Air France... because we are flying from San Francisco and can get a direct flight to Paris. This usually run around $1500+ each.

 

Flights between European cities often are cheapest if you are able to book the first flight of the day.

 

Hotels in Europe can be expensive, $300 a day is not uncommon. We usually stay at airport hotels to save money. Hyatt Charles DeGaull Paris, generally is less expensive the others and offers a shuttle to the center of Paris for 10 euros round trip. Don't have any suggestions for hotels Venice... we stayed in Milan many years ago and rates were very expensive.

 

Package deals on hotel, air probably are the least expensive. We never do because we want the most direct flights, so don't know how well the packages work. We also do not book through cruise lines because we like to control our own air and hotels. Hotels booked through cruises are more expensive by the way then if booked yourself.

 

NCL is an excellent choice... less expensive them many lines.. we have done an Eastern Mediterranean on Jewel a year ago. Mediterranean cruises are very port intensive, so ship is less important.

 

Ref your Dad age and whether tours in port would be too much. I can tell you my DH and I generally do a tour on our own... i.e., we walk and explore ports ourselves, ship tours are expensive. We generally only spend a 1/2 a day in port then come back to the ship, have a late lunch take a nap, so we can enjoy th entertainment on board later in the evening. The time change from the USA to Europe from our home is 8-9 hours different... takes time to adjust, even more so for older folks. We have learned from experience to pace ourselves, so we are not exhausted when we get off the ship.

 

Paris is a wonderful city to visit... great walking city but blocks are long. There are wonderful 1/2 tours of Paris that I would recommend... you can see a lot and then decide what you might like to explore further on your own.

 

This is an challenging trip you are trying to plan. Wish you luck and a fun time. Cruise critic is a good place to get info.

[hansolosmom]

Couple things I wanted to add

 

We were in Europe 22 days this summer, it was our family of 4. Part of that was an 11 day cruise.

The Med is the most expensive cruise we've ever done between excursions and everything else I was actually surprised how much more things were than when we did the Baltics. But it was our last hurrah as our ds is off to college so family vacations will be rare in the future.

 

I researched the cruises like, crazy. For us Rome was extremely important (we're Catholic) so we cruised out of Civitavecchia.

We flew to Venice, stayed for a few days, then took the train to Florence stayed there 2 days, then down to Rome for a few before the cruise. We flew home from Rome. The airfare was pretty comparable as to what it would have been doing round trip.

 

Like someone said the trains are NOT very wheelchair friendly. You can get better prices by buying tickets early on the Trenitalia website, however they are not changeable or refundable. We ran into issues once when we were really early and had to wait 3 hours for the train we booked otherwise we could have bought new tickets. Trains will not wait on you and sometimes it's a quick you're on track X and you have to hustle to get there. There is another train you can use, it's name escapes me now, but check out seat61 dot com, the guy gives great advice for trains in Europe.

 

Another thing someone mentioned, make sure the Pope is in town. We scheduled Florence around getting Papal audience tickets, only to find out he wasn't going to be there. Luckily we were there thru Sunday & he came out and did the Angelus so we saw him at his window while we were in St. Peter's square. The Vatican is one of the few places we did a set tour. They offer walking tours in the morning starting before the whole thing is open to the public. There are still a lot of people but less than the wall to wall people you will see later.

 

Definitely look at renting apartments. I used airbnb dot com and found places to rent with wifi and a washer which helped us save on luggage we needed to haul around. That's another thing to think of, the less you have to carry the better.

 

Again most of the streets are cobblestone there. I also don't believe they have any rules on having to be accessible like we do here. (Not sure about that, but if don't remember seeing many wheelchairs) We walked miles during the day and it was hot.

 

With a lot of preplanning I was able to budget pretty well. But we did spend over $2500 per person. But again it was Summer which is peak season.

 

I hope you can make it work out, because it is an amazing place to go

[zoncom]

Been to Europe many times and spent 10 yrs over seeing both my elderly parents. Europe is not disabled friendly. There are train stations with no elevators even today. Returned from 12N Celebrity Sillhoutte Venice to Rome, doing mainly Black Sea(your area of interest). One of best cruises ever Look up itin. Land costs twice ship..Did 5 nites Paris after cruise.Paris just overpriced, food not as good as old days.Get an Inside disabled cabin and enjoy you family.