MV Britannia Should it be MV White Elephant?

[Keith 'The Cruise' Taylor]

So these are the 'highlights' of the new ship Britannia...

 

Purpose-built single cabins with balconies - very nice but again only for a minority

 

A forward-facing Crow's Nest Bar - hardly ground breaking

 

An 'enhanced' Glasshouse Bar -- which has proven very popular on other ships in the P&O fleet - so the largest ship gets the largest Glasshouse hmmm

 

The largest spa on the fleet - Of course it would its the largest ship

 

OK so I'm not anti P&O far from it..but where are they heading and what is their identity these days? They are releasing their new ship which is basically the Azura but extended in length.. I know for a fact they are currently struggling to fill both their largest ships in fact they have been sailing with sometimes 1000 plus short on both Ventura and Azura! So what's their answer to release the 'largest UK Vessel'. which brings me back to the fundamental question how are they going to fill it? So what great new attractions have been built on board... as like them or loathe them Royal Caribbean have their new ship coming out one month after Britannia. They have some phenomenal new facilities that are first ever for cruise ships. This ship along with at least three others by RC will now be based in Southampton for good - of course these are aimed at the family market. P&O already have three adult only ships and lets face it Aurora and Azura aren't really aimed at the younger passengers - which leaves me wondering how they can compete in the modern market and what their business strategy is? They are a business after all. Is there plan to hand all family business over to RC? Its a shame to see this happen to them but they have been cutting back for years and its starting to look very ominous for them. I understand a lot of people like a quintessentially British Cruise Ship as I do, but they have to offer options for all. Even more so as the fleet gets bigger. Just food for thought..

[jeanlyon]

Hi, I agree with you, when we were on Oriana in September, one member of staff told me that one Baltic cruise went out with 800 Getaways, which is a big loss out of 1200 passengers. I have only been on Azura once and did not like it, but there were plenty of the younger crowd on board, but maybe you meant children? There were some on board when we went, but not many, although it was September, so out of season.

 

This new ship would not appeal to me, as i like the smaller ships and in some respects prefer Fred O. We have three cruises coming up, two with Fred and one with P&O.

Edited December 1, 2013 by jeanlyon

[kersh]

Only time will tell if you are correct about Britannia. We are looking forward to hearing more about it and all of the entertainment and restaurants it will offer.

 

Hopefully we will be on the maiden cruise but if not soon afterwards.

 

The Royal Princess does not appear to have gone too well with some Princess cruisers who may well be in the minority but are very vocal on the Princess boards.

 

Hopefully PO will adapt the design to cater more for the British market but I doubt there will be anything they can do about the small balconies. This will not stop us booking Britannia but will probably save money by not booking a balcony.

 

Sue

[daiB]

Only time will tell if you are correct about Britannia. We are looking forward to hearing more about it and all of the entertainment and restaurants it will offer.

 

Hopefully we will be on the maiden cruise but if not soon afterwards.

 

The Royal Princess does not appear to have gone too well with some Princess cruisers who may well be in the minority but are very vocal on the Princess boards.

 

Hopefully PO will adapt the design to cater more for the British market but I doubt there will be anything they can do about the small balconies. This will not stop us booking Britannia but will probably save money by not booking a balcony.

 

Sue

 

We were told that unlike Azura and Ventura, P&O will have far more say as to the internal fittings etc on this new ship. Princess have already announced changes in there 2 ship. I think the ideas of a small balcony is that the ship is built for the Caribbean with a port intensive itinerary, so not a lot of time spent on the balcony. No good for P&O with lots of sea days ex Southampton.

[davecttr]

IMO P&O are just making things difficult for themselves by trying to run 3 different cruise lines under the same banner. Adult only, Traditional plus children and 'family' friendly' which I presume to mean more relaxed.

 

Brittania will be aimed at the family friendly market as it is only an enlarged Azura/Ventura with a similar lack of passenger space. P&O traditionists won't like it and there are a lot of family friendly ships out there!.

 

If the cruise market does not grow significantly, not many of us are bankers and times are hard, how are they going to fill the ship? Get rid of two medium sized ones of course.

 

Which two? The money is on Oceana and if they also get rid of Aurora it should fill the new ship nicely.

 

There is a complication. If they want to exploit the fly cruise market the big new ship can't get into Venice. Fly cruising implies a more relaxed atmosphere so it would be better to keep the mid sized Oceana. Despatch Aurora to the far east and get rid of the old Oriana as well. The traditionalists will moan like hell but they are dying out and Carnival would be quite happy if they cruised with Cunard instead.

[jeanlyon]

Interesting comments, but am I a traditionalist because I like the smaller ships. I've only been cruising for 6 years and just prefer the size. Just read a report from a couple who like Azura, they have just cruised on Oriana and loved her, so I just don't think its a simple answer. Some people like these enormous ships and some don't.

[Thejuggler]

Whilst a crows nest bar is nothing new, by not having them Ventura and Azura have quite rightly attracted criticism. Nothing better on sea days than having a good wide aspect view. The one on Eclipse meant we saw loads of dolphins and killer whales whilst on the trip to Iceland. Grand Priness is even worse as it has no bars with a bow or stern view.

[jeanlyon]

I'm sure we were in the equivalent of a Crows Nest on Azura? The Planet Bar - doesn't that give a view from the top>

[davecttr]

I'm sure we were in the equivalent of a Crows Nest on Azura? The Planet Bar - doesn't that give a view from the top>

Yes, Metropolis on Ventura which I found rather cold and remote. Not as nice as the Crows Nest on Arcadia which was my favourite bar. It could have been down to the staff who prefered chatting amongst themselves rather than serving customers. Metropolis vibrates a lot when the ship is underway which I thought was worse than the famous 'wobble' on Thomson Celebration.

 

On my first cruise on Ventura they did not even have any entertainment up there. Very much a second best to a proper Crows Nest.

 

ps - i would rather watch where i am going rather than where I have been.

[tom_uk]

I'm sure we were in the equivalent of a Crows Nest on Azura? The Planet Bar - doesn't that give a view from the top>

 

The Planet Bar (and Metropolis on Ventura) are right aft and the main view is aft. There are a couple of windows (one each side) facing forwards, but the view is from a long way aft and is mainly along the side of the ship. Not for nothing was Metropolis dubbed "The Crow's Arse" in Ventura's early days.

 

I agree that it's a pity that there isn't a forwards-facing day-time lounge/bar on Ventura & Azura, but there isn't and that's the way it is. My personal view is that the Crow's Nests I know - Oriana and Arcadia - are very pleasant during the day, they don't really work at night, I they're much too big and have no real focal point. In contrast, Metropolis and The Planet Bar work really well as large, busy cocktails bars. As I've said before, there may not be many passengers still up and about after midnight on Ventura, but they're probably all in Metropolis so it feels busy and 'happening'. We've had some very good nights in there.

 

They're different spaces with different intentions.

[jeanlyon]

Actually I suppose the reason I didn't notice that is that we normally go for drinks around 7pm when it is dark or nearly. I did enjoy the Crows Nest on Oriana, it was lovely.

[tom_uk]

Yes, Metropolis on Ventura which I found rather cold and remote. Not as nice as the Crows Nest on Arcadia which was my favourite bar. It could have been down to the staff who prefered chatting amongst themselves rather than serving customers. Metropolis vibrates a lot when the ship is underway which I thought was worse than the famous 'wobble' on Thomson Celebration.

 

On my first cruise on Ventura they did not even have any entertainment up there. Very much a second best to a proper Crows Nest.

 

All I can say is that we've had the opposite experience - we found Metropolis busy and active, and with good, friendly, smiling and busy staff; whereas we found Arcadia's Crows Nest very big and dark, with just a few people huddled together in the middle (as if for warmth) while a singer tried to fill the vast, empty cavernous spaces and failed.....

 

It's horses for courses, of course, and I don't think it's a question of which is best; but as I say we've always really enjoyed our evenings in Metropolis.

 

During the daytime it's different, I'll agree - then, the Crows Nests are better. But we haven't used them that much in the day time - we seem to be doing so many other things.

[Scriv]

Me too Jean. In fact I preferred Crows nest in the evening pre and post first sitting dinner on our cruise to the Fjords in May to the daytime, when it was quite sparsely populated.

 

I loved the Oriana.

[Host Sharon]

Only time will tell if you are correct about Britannia. We are looking forward to hearing more about it and all of the entertainment and restaurants it will offer.

 

Hopefully we will be on the maiden cruise but if not soon afterwards.

 

The Royal Princess does not appear to have gone too well with some Princess cruisers who may well be in the minority but are very vocal on the Princess boards.

 

Hopefully PO will adapt the design to cater more for the British market but I doubt there will be anything they can do about the small balconies. This will not stop us booking Britannia but will probably save money by not booking a balcony.

Sue

 

The problem might be that ALL outside cabins have balconies!

[kersh]

The problem might be that ALL outside cabins have balconies!

 

Yes I had forgotten that, now remember reading it somewhere. We are not averse to booking an inside cabin depending on the difference in cost.

 

Sue

[terrierjohn]

The problems with P&O date back 10 years when Lord Stirling and Peter Ratcliffe made the monumentally incorrect decision to accept Mickey Arisons offer to buy P&O Princess and absorb it into his Carnival coropration, instead of the original plan to merge with Royal Caribbean.

If they had continued with the RCCL merger we might now have several Solstice class ships sailing under the P&O banner along with a new Quantum class ship in production, which in my view would be far better than Azura Ventura and the proposed Britannia.

But money always talks.

[jeanlyon]

On our cruise on Oriana in September, the Crows nest was buzzing every night. Loads of people up there, pianist playing tunes. Lovely atmosphere.

[Denarius]

The problems with P&O date back 10 years when Lord Stirling and Peter Ratcliffe made the monumentally incorrect decision to accept Mickey Arisons offer to buy P&O Princess and absorb it into his Carnival coropration, instead of the original plan to merge with Royal Caribbean.

If they had continued with the RCCL merger we might now have several Solstice class ships sailing under the P&O banner along with a new Quantum class ship in production, which in my view would be far better than Azura Ventura and the proposed Britannia.

But money always talks.

 

I agree. At the time I believed that the proposed friendly merger with the Royal Caribbean group would have been better for P&O passengers, and in retrospect my views have not changed. When faced with the consequent hostile takeover bid from Carnival however, the P&O board had to consider the financial interests of shareholders rather than the interests of customers. That was their duty as directors of a public company. And Carnival were prepared to pay top whack to prevent RCI challenging their supremacy in the industry, so Carnival it was.

[albertb]

It was actually the P&O shareholders who agreed the Carnival merger, against the wishes of the P&O board.

[tom_uk]

It was actually the P&O shareholders who agreed the Carnival merger, against the wishes of the P&O board.

 

That's what I thought. I believe that the structure of P&O Princess Cruises PLC (or whatever they were officially called) allowed for an Extraordinary Meeting of shareholders to be called in certain circumstances, and that's what was done. I also believe that the majority of shareholders attending the meeting on the day supported the board's recommendation, which (as suggested above) was to merge with Royal Carribbean. However, the institutional shareholders - banks, insurance companies, pension funds, etc - preferred the Carnival offer, and since they held a large majority of the shares, that bid was successful.

 

There's some good stuff in the Bruce Peter/Philip Dawson "P&O at 175" book about the final years of P&O, both the original company and way the various arms of the company were de-merged and then taken over. The book makes no bones about it - Sterling and the P&O board were under continuous pressure from the major shareholders in the city to maximise the return on capital, and if that meant selling off the business bit by bit, so be it. Sogoodbye construction (Bovis); goodbye cruises; goodbye containers (P&O NedLLoyd); goodbye ferries.... I believe that at the end the only thing that P&O (the original company) did was operate ports, and DPWorld bought that business.

[terrierjohn]

Although the shareholders, as they always do, made the final decision in their vote, this was not until Carnival made an improved final offer to the P&O board and agreed on a string of demands from the P&O board which included a dual listing of Carnival in the US and UK. The P&O board then made the decision to recommend the Carnival offer to its shareholders.

I imagine that the large institutional investors did exercise some influence on the P&O board, but the board could have tried equally as hard to improve the Royal Caribbean merger terms if they had wanted to, clearly, IMO, they chose the easier and wrong option.

[kevinyork]

Whilst a crows nest bar is nothing new, by not having them Ventura and Azura have quite rightly attracted criticism. Nothing better on sea days than having a good wide aspect view. The one on Eclipse meant we saw loads of dolphins and killer whales whilst on the trip to Iceland. Grand Priness is even worse as it has no bars with a bow or stern view.

 

The Eclipse Sky Lounge is stunning. Full width 220 degree floor to ceiling windows with luxurious furnishings. A huge space that is great for relaxing during the day, listening to a band early evening or dancing later at night.

 

Edited December 9, 2013 by kevinyork

[marylizcat]

So these are the 'highlights' of the new ship Britannia...

 

Purpose-built single cabins with balconies - very nice but again only for a minority

 

A forward-facing Crow's Nest Bar - hardly ground breaking

 

An 'enhanced' Glasshouse Bar -- which has proven very popular on other ships in the P&O fleet - so the largest ship gets the largest Glasshouse hmmm

 

The largest spa on the fleet - Of course it would its the largest ship

 

OK so I'm not anti P&O far from it..but where are they heading and what is their identity these days? They are releasing their new ship which is basically the Azura but extended in length.. I know for a fact they are currently struggling to fill both their largest ships in fact they have been sailing with sometimes 1000 plus short on both Ventura and Azura! So what's their answer to release the 'largest UK Vessel'. which brings me back to the fundamental question how are they going to fill it? So what great new attractions have been built on board... as like them or loathe them Royal Caribbean have their new ship coming out one month after Britannia. They have some phenomenal new facilities that are first ever for cruise ships. This ship along with at least three others by RC will now be based in Southampton for good - of course these are aimed at the family market. P&O already have three adult only ships and lets face it Aurora and Azura aren't really aimed at the younger passengers - which leaves me wondering how they can compete in the modern market and what their business strategy is? They are a business after all. Is there plan to hand all family business over to RC? Its a shame to see this happen to them but they have been cutting back for years and its starting to look very ominous for them. I understand a lot of people like a quintessentially British Cruise Ship as I do' date=' but they have to offer options for all. Even more so as the fleet gets bigger. Just food for thought..[/quote']

 

To go back to the original question, I agree that Britannia has so far shown no sign of offering anything "special". It will be in direct competition with the new Anthem of the Seas, which to me looks far more interesting, with all sorts of extras. I certainly have a good idea which ship we shall be cruising on in 2015.... Britannia just looks boring for anyone under sixty.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[kevinyork]

To go back to the original question, I agree that Britannia has so far shown no sign of offering anything "special". It will be in direct competition with the new Anthem of the Seas, which to me looks far more interesting, with all sorts of extras. I certainly have a good idea which ship we shall be cruising on in 2015.... Britannia just looks boring for anyone under sixty.

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

Totally agree. Every new ship needs a few unique selling points to entice passengers, Anthem has them, Britania doesnt.

[davecttr]

Totally agree. Every new ship needs a few unique selling points to entice passengers, Anthem has them, Britania doesnt.

Britannia also has less space per passenger which is a 'feature' of Carnival designs. Pack 'em in with more cabins but no more facilities.

 

She just looks like a larger version of Ventura/Azura but apparently with the addition of a crows nest. Where they could put that without removing cabins might be a problem.

 

I see a problem with providing alternative dining venues on a ship which should attract 'traditional' formal P&O diehards. They will want formal. formal will doom Britannia. They don't want foreign food. That will doom the alternative dining venues. They want lounges where they can dooze the time away without spending money. They won't find many aboard.

 

Brittania is just a more economic way of generating passenger revenue which would work if they retire some ships and manage to pursuade the passengers to cruise on the new ship.